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On April 16 2019 23:14 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 17:21 Archeon wrote:On April 16 2019 06:22 Jathin wrote:So before this thread gets out of hand, there are a few things worth mentioning. First, the article is inaccurate. Activision Blizzard (ATVI) paid $64M in taxes in 2018, $878M in 2017, and $140M in 2016. Still, the $64M they paid in the last year is an effective tax rate of 3%. Here's how it works: you start with the federal tax rate of 21% and you make adjustments off of it based on tax deductions. For example, research and development allowed them to shave 2% off that rate. I won't make an ethical judgment on which adjustments are unfair and which are fair (there's a little bit of both), but in the end they're all legal. After all adjustments, the effective rate is what you wind up with. The thing to keep in mind is that the effective tax rate for any given year doesn't tell you the whole story. Sometimes tax adjustments get pulled forward/back to different years. For example, Blizzard's tax rates were: 2018: 3% 2017: 76% 2016: 13% Average: 30.67% So it's a bit sensationalist to look at any one year and cry foul. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a difference between cash tax rate and paper-tax rate. Sometimes the tax adjustment is simply an adjustment to their balance sheet but no money exchanges hands. When the U.S. Tax Reform Act passed, there were huge adjustments on companies' balance sheets that caused huge swings in effective tax rates. So it's a bit disingenuous for reporters to use these numbers and act like corporate America is screwing Uncle Sam (there are other ways you're getting screwed, but this isn't one of them). Long story short, taxes are complicated and while almost certainly this thread is going to be full of people screaming, "bloody murder," there's more to it than meets the eye. Tax info is on footnote page F-53 in their 10-K: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/718877/000104746919000788/a2237840z10-k.htm Bloody murder! Thanks for providing the info though  76% is as insane as 3%, wtf America. Why does it swing so much? Also @people saying that they are paying income taxes/taxes on dividents already: Smaller companies pay corporate taxes too. Whether corporate income tax is meaningful or not is a different discussion, but as a law it should apply to all companies more or less equally, right? And if anything global players like Atvi should pay more and not less? Big companies have large spreadsheets and have teams of people to find out how much they are worth and how much money they made. Imagine a company like blizzard, whose main asset is owning video games licenses. How much is each game worth? They could EASILY be making money on sales for example, but be losing value as a company because those games are getting old so sales will eventually stop and they have no real prospect of high sellers soon. It is really really complicated. Everyone should be paying less taxes. People get to keep their money and spend it how they see fit, instead of allocating those resources to politicians and their (lack) of judgement.
I fully disagree with your opinion. People in general make worse choices on what they spend money on than politicians do. Politicians make a lot of bad choices, on average it is better though. Nobody lauds a government with 200 trillion in holdings and surpluses. While companies and people get lauded for it for some reason. It is the same thing, push the money back into standard of living.
I will also agree though that there is a tax rate at which innovation is no longer promoted enough, it is probably around 90% on individual profit and 50% corporate. Which we are nowhere near.
An example a lot of people agree with, you own a house with 5 rooms per person living there. Have 3 maids to manage to clean it and live there 3 days a month. You also own 22 cars, an airplane and three resort houses for when you have some time over. At that point the person is likely paying too little tax, the only exception would be the people making the greatest innovation in a decade or two. If them pushing the money back into new enterprises was taxed less (it usually is) then they avoid the tax by keeping people employed in a properly working system. Let government sort out trickle down if you are not actively doing it.
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On April 16 2019 23:39 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 23:14 GoTuNk! wrote:On April 16 2019 17:21 Archeon wrote:On April 16 2019 06:22 Jathin wrote:So before this thread gets out of hand, there are a few things worth mentioning. First, the article is inaccurate. Activision Blizzard (ATVI) paid $64M in taxes in 2018, $878M in 2017, and $140M in 2016. Still, the $64M they paid in the last year is an effective tax rate of 3%. Here's how it works: you start with the federal tax rate of 21% and you make adjustments off of it based on tax deductions. For example, research and development allowed them to shave 2% off that rate. I won't make an ethical judgment on which adjustments are unfair and which are fair (there's a little bit of both), but in the end they're all legal. After all adjustments, the effective rate is what you wind up with. The thing to keep in mind is that the effective tax rate for any given year doesn't tell you the whole story. Sometimes tax adjustments get pulled forward/back to different years. For example, Blizzard's tax rates were: 2018: 3% 2017: 76% 2016: 13% Average: 30.67% So it's a bit sensationalist to look at any one year and cry foul. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a difference between cash tax rate and paper-tax rate. Sometimes the tax adjustment is simply an adjustment to their balance sheet but no money exchanges hands. When the U.S. Tax Reform Act passed, there were huge adjustments on companies' balance sheets that caused huge swings in effective tax rates. So it's a bit disingenuous for reporters to use these numbers and act like corporate America is screwing Uncle Sam (there are other ways you're getting screwed, but this isn't one of them). Long story short, taxes are complicated and while almost certainly this thread is going to be full of people screaming, "bloody murder," there's more to it than meets the eye. Tax info is on footnote page F-53 in their 10-K: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/718877/000104746919000788/a2237840z10-k.htm Bloody murder! Thanks for providing the info though 76% is as insane as 3%, wtf America. Why does it swing so much? Also @people saying that they are paying income taxes/taxes on dividents already: Smaller companies pay corporate taxes too. Whether corporate income tax is meaningful or not is a different discussion, but as a law it should apply to all companies more or less equally, right? And if anything global players like Atvi should pay more and not less? Big companies have large spreadsheets and have teams of people to find out how much they are worth and how much money they made. Imagine a company like blizzard, whose main asset is owning video games licenses. How much is each game worth? They could EASILY be making money on sales for example, but be losing value as a company because those games are getting old so sales will eventually stop and they have no real prospect of high sellers soon. It is really really complicated. Everyone should be paying less taxes. People get to keep their money and spend it how they see fit, instead of allocating those resources to politicians and their (lack) of judgement. I fully disagree with your opinion. People in general make worse choices on what they spend money on than politicians do. Politicians make a lot of bad choices, on average it is better though. Nobody lauds a government with 200 trillion in holdings and surpluses. While companies and people get lauded for it for some reason. It is the same thing, push the money back into standard of living. I will also agree though that there is a tax rate at which innovation is no longer promoted enough, it is probably around 90% on individual profit and 50% corporate. Which we are nowhere near. An example a lot of people agree with, you own a house with 5 rooms per person living there. Have 3 maids to manage to clean it and live there 3 days a month. You also own 22 cars, an airplane and three resort houses for when you have some time over. At that point the person is likely paying too little tax, the only exception would be the people making the greatest innovation in a decade or two. If them pushing the money back into new enterprises was taxed less (it usually is) then they avoid the tax by keeping people employed in a properly working system. Let government sort out trickle down if you are not actively doing it.
So you want to surrender your liberty and take away others because some people make bad decisions. And willingly give your money to politicians because they can spend it better than you.
You want individuals to be taxed at 90%? Companies at 50%? Have you ever worked? Do you know the standards of living in countries with 90% income tax rate? (hint: people make hour long lines to buy food.)
I suppose you expect to be one of the ruling class politicians.
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On April 17 2019 00:27 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 23:39 Yurie wrote:On April 16 2019 23:14 GoTuNk! wrote:On April 16 2019 17:21 Archeon wrote:On April 16 2019 06:22 Jathin wrote:So before this thread gets out of hand, there are a few things worth mentioning. First, the article is inaccurate. Activision Blizzard (ATVI) paid $64M in taxes in 2018, $878M in 2017, and $140M in 2016. Still, the $64M they paid in the last year is an effective tax rate of 3%. Here's how it works: you start with the federal tax rate of 21% and you make adjustments off of it based on tax deductions. For example, research and development allowed them to shave 2% off that rate. I won't make an ethical judgment on which adjustments are unfair and which are fair (there's a little bit of both), but in the end they're all legal. After all adjustments, the effective rate is what you wind up with. The thing to keep in mind is that the effective tax rate for any given year doesn't tell you the whole story. Sometimes tax adjustments get pulled forward/back to different years. For example, Blizzard's tax rates were: 2018: 3% 2017: 76% 2016: 13% Average: 30.67% So it's a bit sensationalist to look at any one year and cry foul. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a difference between cash tax rate and paper-tax rate. Sometimes the tax adjustment is simply an adjustment to their balance sheet but no money exchanges hands. When the U.S. Tax Reform Act passed, there were huge adjustments on companies' balance sheets that caused huge swings in effective tax rates. So it's a bit disingenuous for reporters to use these numbers and act like corporate America is screwing Uncle Sam (there are other ways you're getting screwed, but this isn't one of them). Long story short, taxes are complicated and while almost certainly this thread is going to be full of people screaming, "bloody murder," there's more to it than meets the eye. Tax info is on footnote page F-53 in their 10-K: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/718877/000104746919000788/a2237840z10-k.htm Bloody murder! Thanks for providing the info though 76% is as insane as 3%, wtf America. Why does it swing so much? Also @people saying that they are paying income taxes/taxes on dividents already: Smaller companies pay corporate taxes too. Whether corporate income tax is meaningful or not is a different discussion, but as a law it should apply to all companies more or less equally, right? And if anything global players like Atvi should pay more and not less? Big companies have large spreadsheets and have teams of people to find out how much they are worth and how much money they made. Imagine a company like blizzard, whose main asset is owning video games licenses. How much is each game worth? They could EASILY be making money on sales for example, but be losing value as a company because those games are getting old so sales will eventually stop and they have no real prospect of high sellers soon. It is really really complicated. Everyone should be paying less taxes. People get to keep their money and spend it how they see fit, instead of allocating those resources to politicians and their (lack) of judgement. I fully disagree with your opinion. People in general make worse choices on what they spend money on than politicians do. Politicians make a lot of bad choices, on average it is better though. Nobody lauds a government with 200 trillion in holdings and surpluses. While companies and people get lauded for it for some reason. It is the same thing, push the money back into standard of living. I will also agree though that there is a tax rate at which innovation is no longer promoted enough, it is probably around 90% on individual profit and 50% corporate. Which we are nowhere near. An example a lot of people agree with, you own a house with 5 rooms per person living there. Have 3 maids to manage to clean it and live there 3 days a month. You also own 22 cars, an airplane and three resort houses for when you have some time over. At that point the person is likely paying too little tax, the only exception would be the people making the greatest innovation in a decade or two. If them pushing the money back into new enterprises was taxed less (it usually is) then they avoid the tax by keeping people employed in a properly working system. Let government sort out trickle down if you are not actively doing it. So you want to surrender your liberty and take away others because some people make bad decisions. And willingly give your money to politicians because they can spend it better than you. You want individuals to be taxed at 90%? Companies at 50%? Have you ever worked? Do you know the standards of living in countries with 90% income tax rate? (hint: people make hour long lines to buy food.) I suppose you expect to be one of the ruling class politicians.
I have been working and paying taxes for 12 years now since that somehow seems to matter in the discussion. I honestly want the top end tax in a bracket system to end up around 90% yes. So somebody making below ~50% of median wage in the country is taxed 0 % since moving the money around is just waste in their case. Then when you hit the 0.001% of the population bracket or similar the tax rate of money above that level is 90% taxed, not the money below.
This is becoming quite off topic from a discussion about companies not paying taxes at all though so I will not continue it in this thread.
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ITT people comparing paying personal taxes to billion dollar faceless corporations as if those are even remotely on the same scale.
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Russian Federation1893 Posts
On April 16 2019 06:22 Jathin wrote:
The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a difference between cash tax rate and paper-tax rate. True. So many persons mess up realized and unrealized gains
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I can understand not wanting to pay taxes when you live in the USA. Otherwise, yeah it's ridiculous that these companies pay so little in taxes. Something which is possible partly thanks to my own government. Fixing tax dodging for both companies and individuals is going to require major reforms, many internationally coordinated.
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On April 17 2019 00:27 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 23:39 Yurie wrote:On April 16 2019 23:14 GoTuNk! wrote:On April 16 2019 17:21 Archeon wrote:On April 16 2019 06:22 Jathin wrote:So before this thread gets out of hand, there are a few things worth mentioning. First, the article is inaccurate. Activision Blizzard (ATVI) paid $64M in taxes in 2018, $878M in 2017, and $140M in 2016. Still, the $64M they paid in the last year is an effective tax rate of 3%. Here's how it works: you start with the federal tax rate of 21% and you make adjustments off of it based on tax deductions. For example, research and development allowed them to shave 2% off that rate. I won't make an ethical judgment on which adjustments are unfair and which are fair (there's a little bit of both), but in the end they're all legal. After all adjustments, the effective rate is what you wind up with. The thing to keep in mind is that the effective tax rate for any given year doesn't tell you the whole story. Sometimes tax adjustments get pulled forward/back to different years. For example, Blizzard's tax rates were: 2018: 3% 2017: 76% 2016: 13% Average: 30.67% So it's a bit sensationalist to look at any one year and cry foul. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a difference between cash tax rate and paper-tax rate. Sometimes the tax adjustment is simply an adjustment to their balance sheet but no money exchanges hands. When the U.S. Tax Reform Act passed, there were huge adjustments on companies' balance sheets that caused huge swings in effective tax rates. So it's a bit disingenuous for reporters to use these numbers and act like corporate America is screwing Uncle Sam (there are other ways you're getting screwed, but this isn't one of them). Long story short, taxes are complicated and while almost certainly this thread is going to be full of people screaming, "bloody murder," there's more to it than meets the eye. Tax info is on footnote page F-53 in their 10-K: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/718877/000104746919000788/a2237840z10-k.htm Bloody murder! Thanks for providing the info though 76% is as insane as 3%, wtf America. Why does it swing so much? Also @people saying that they are paying income taxes/taxes on dividents already: Smaller companies pay corporate taxes too. Whether corporate income tax is meaningful or not is a different discussion, but as a law it should apply to all companies more or less equally, right? And if anything global players like Atvi should pay more and not less? Big companies have large spreadsheets and have teams of people to find out how much they are worth and how much money they made. Imagine a company like blizzard, whose main asset is owning video games licenses. How much is each game worth? They could EASILY be making money on sales for example, but be losing value as a company because those games are getting old so sales will eventually stop and they have no real prospect of high sellers soon. It is really really complicated. Everyone should be paying less taxes. People get to keep their money and spend it how they see fit, instead of allocating those resources to politicians and their (lack) of judgement. I fully disagree with your opinion. People in general make worse choices on what they spend money on than politicians do. Politicians make a lot of bad choices, on average it is better though. Nobody lauds a government with 200 trillion in holdings and surpluses. While companies and people get lauded for it for some reason. It is the same thing, push the money back into standard of living. I will also agree though that there is a tax rate at which innovation is no longer promoted enough, it is probably around 90% on individual profit and 50% corporate. Which we are nowhere near. An example a lot of people agree with, you own a house with 5 rooms per person living there. Have 3 maids to manage to clean it and live there 3 days a month. You also own 22 cars, an airplane and three resort houses for when you have some time over. At that point the person is likely paying too little tax, the only exception would be the people making the greatest innovation in a decade or two. If them pushing the money back into new enterprises was taxed less (it usually is) then they avoid the tax by keeping people employed in a properly working system. Let government sort out trickle down if you are not actively doing it. So you want to surrender your liberty and take away others because some people make bad decisions. And willingly give your money to politicians because they can spend it better than you. You want individuals to be taxed at 90%? Companies at 50%? Have you ever worked? Do you know the standards of living in countries with 90% income tax rate? (hint: people make hour long lines to buy food.) I suppose you expect to be one of the ruling class politicians.
Hello, just so you stop misunderstanding. He is not talking about 90% individual tax rate, but 90% TOP BRACKET tax rate (on the part of your income after X hundred thousands or millions).
For your memory, the USA has already had this kind of tax rate, and I don't believe people were lining up to buy food.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#History_of_top_rates
Nothing about surrendering liberty or other shit like that. Just having income redistribution to avoid ultra-rich and no middle class (what is happening now in fact), and good infrastructure and protection in the country.
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On April 16 2019 23:14 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 17:21 Archeon wrote:On April 16 2019 06:22 Jathin wrote:So before this thread gets out of hand, there are a few things worth mentioning. First, the article is inaccurate. Activision Blizzard (ATVI) paid $64M in taxes in 2018, $878M in 2017, and $140M in 2016. Still, the $64M they paid in the last year is an effective tax rate of 3%. Here's how it works: you start with the federal tax rate of 21% and you make adjustments off of it based on tax deductions. For example, research and development allowed them to shave 2% off that rate. I won't make an ethical judgment on which adjustments are unfair and which are fair (there's a little bit of both), but in the end they're all legal. After all adjustments, the effective rate is what you wind up with. The thing to keep in mind is that the effective tax rate for any given year doesn't tell you the whole story. Sometimes tax adjustments get pulled forward/back to different years. For example, Blizzard's tax rates were: 2018: 3% 2017: 76% 2016: 13% Average: 30.67% So it's a bit sensationalist to look at any one year and cry foul. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a difference between cash tax rate and paper-tax rate. Sometimes the tax adjustment is simply an adjustment to their balance sheet but no money exchanges hands. When the U.S. Tax Reform Act passed, there were huge adjustments on companies' balance sheets that caused huge swings in effective tax rates. So it's a bit disingenuous for reporters to use these numbers and act like corporate America is screwing Uncle Sam (there are other ways you're getting screwed, but this isn't one of them). Long story short, taxes are complicated and while almost certainly this thread is going to be full of people screaming, "bloody murder," there's more to it than meets the eye. Tax info is on footnote page F-53 in their 10-K: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/718877/000104746919000788/a2237840z10-k.htm Bloody murder! Thanks for providing the info though 76% is as insane as 3%, wtf America. Why does it swing so much? Also @people saying that they are paying income taxes/taxes on dividents already: Smaller companies pay corporate taxes too. Whether corporate income tax is meaningful or not is a different discussion, but as a law it should apply to all companies more or less equally, right? And if anything global players like Atvi should pay more and not less? Big companies have large spreadsheets and have teams of people to find out how much they are worth and how much money they made. Imagine a company like blizzard, whose main asset is owning video games licenses. How much is each game worth? They could EASILY be making money on sales for example, but be losing value as a company because those games are getting old so sales will eventually stop and they have no real prospect of high sellers soon. It is really really complicated. Everyone should be paying less taxes. People get to keep their money and spend it how they see fit, instead of allocating those resources to politicians and their (lack) of judgement.
Thanks for the explanation. The example you describe is something where a stable income tax makes sense though, since in a year where Blizz doesn't make much money they also get to pay less compared to just taxing the value of the their brands f.e..
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@#7,I fairly agree your opinion about tax. As for #9, I think you might have some misunderstanding about the US government. Think about it this way, What's the point of a government to print out papers and gives it to a corporation? For esteem or fame? Does a government needs those? The only explanation is like what #7 said.
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Did I hear some giant company is paying zero in taxes?
![[image loading]](https://img.theepochtimes.com/assets/uploads/2019/11/11/bernie-sanders-at-mic-700x420.jpg)
On April 17 2019 00:27 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 23:39 Yurie wrote:On April 16 2019 23:14 GoTuNk! wrote:On April 16 2019 17:21 Archeon wrote:On April 16 2019 06:22 Jathin wrote:So before this thread gets out of hand, there are a few things worth mentioning. First, the article is inaccurate. Activision Blizzard (ATVI) paid $64M in taxes in 2018, $878M in 2017, and $140M in 2016. Still, the $64M they paid in the last year is an effective tax rate of 3%. Here's how it works: you start with the federal tax rate of 21% and you make adjustments off of it based on tax deductions. For example, research and development allowed them to shave 2% off that rate. I won't make an ethical judgment on which adjustments are unfair and which are fair (there's a little bit of both), but in the end they're all legal. After all adjustments, the effective rate is what you wind up with. The thing to keep in mind is that the effective tax rate for any given year doesn't tell you the whole story. Sometimes tax adjustments get pulled forward/back to different years. For example, Blizzard's tax rates were: 2018: 3% 2017: 76% 2016: 13% Average: 30.67% So it's a bit sensationalist to look at any one year and cry foul. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a difference between cash tax rate and paper-tax rate. Sometimes the tax adjustment is simply an adjustment to their balance sheet but no money exchanges hands. When the U.S. Tax Reform Act passed, there were huge adjustments on companies' balance sheets that caused huge swings in effective tax rates. So it's a bit disingenuous for reporters to use these numbers and act like corporate America is screwing Uncle Sam (there are other ways you're getting screwed, but this isn't one of them). Long story short, taxes are complicated and while almost certainly this thread is going to be full of people screaming, "bloody murder," there's more to it than meets the eye. Tax info is on footnote page F-53 in their 10-K: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/718877/000104746919000788/a2237840z10-k.htm Bloody murder! Thanks for providing the info though 76% is as insane as 3%, wtf America. Why does it swing so much? Also @people saying that they are paying income taxes/taxes on dividents already: Smaller companies pay corporate taxes too. Whether corporate income tax is meaningful or not is a different discussion, but as a law it should apply to all companies more or less equally, right? And if anything global players like Atvi should pay more and not less? Big companies have large spreadsheets and have teams of people to find out how much they are worth and how much money they made. Imagine a company like blizzard, whose main asset is owning video games licenses. How much is each game worth? They could EASILY be making money on sales for example, but be losing value as a company because those games are getting old so sales will eventually stop and they have no real prospect of high sellers soon. It is really really complicated. Everyone should be paying less taxes. People get to keep their money and spend it how they see fit, instead of allocating those resources to politicians and their (lack) of judgement. I fully disagree with your opinion. People in general make worse choices on what they spend money on than politicians do. Politicians make a lot of bad choices, on average it is better though. Nobody lauds a government with 200 trillion in holdings and surpluses. While companies and people get lauded for it for some reason. It is the same thing, push the money back into standard of living. I will also agree though that there is a tax rate at which innovation is no longer promoted enough, it is probably around 90% on individual profit and 50% corporate. Which we are nowhere near. An example a lot of people agree with, you own a house with 5 rooms per person living there. Have 3 maids to manage to clean it and live there 3 days a month. You also own 22 cars, an airplane and three resort houses for when you have some time over. At that point the person is likely paying too little tax, the only exception would be the people making the greatest innovation in a decade or two. If them pushing the money back into new enterprises was taxed less (it usually is) then they avoid the tax by keeping people employed in a properly working system. Let government sort out trickle down if you are not actively doing it. So you want to surrender your liberty and take away others because some people make bad decisions. And willingly give your money to politicians because they can spend it better than you. You want individuals to be taxed at 90%? Companies at 50%? Have you ever worked? Do you know the standards of living in countries with 90% income tax rate? (hint: people make hour long lines to buy food.) I suppose you expect to be one of the ruling class politicians.
If you ever... EVER hit the top marginal tax bracket and is having your top earned income taxed at 90%, you have NOTHING to worry about. I think you don't understand what a marginal tax bracket is though and think paying 90% tax on income is on ALL of your income. Not true. It's like this:
![[image loading]](https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/105723078-single18.png?v=1549477957)
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Wonder where all their tax credits come from to avoid paying any taxes. R&D or the whole stock compensation switch-a-roo?
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On April 16 2019 06:17 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 06:00 DeepElemBlues wrote:
No, they got back the money they paid.
I don't get why people don't understand this. Activision Blizzard paid taxes and got that amount back later. Not the same money, the government spent that money and hit some buttons on the US Treasury Money Machine and gave that money to Activision Blizzard.
When you file your tax return and the government gives you back X dollars 2 weeks to a month later it doesn't mean you didn't pay that money. If you hadn't paid it, the government would be giving you back precisely zero. even then, if it's really that easy for the government to just print money and give it out, the last place it should be going is right back into the pockets of multi billion dollar corporations. the system is still broken.
You're right. In a truly fair society everyone would have to pay the exact same amount to the cent.
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Canada11321 Posts
On November 17 2019 06:53 G5 wrote:Did I hear some giant company is paying zero in taxes? Show nested quote +On April 17 2019 00:27 GoTuNk! wrote:On April 16 2019 23:39 Yurie wrote:On April 16 2019 23:14 GoTuNk! wrote:On April 16 2019 17:21 Archeon wrote:On April 16 2019 06:22 Jathin wrote:So before this thread gets out of hand, there are a few things worth mentioning. First, the article is inaccurate. Activision Blizzard (ATVI) paid $64M in taxes in 2018, $878M in 2017, and $140M in 2016. Still, the $64M they paid in the last year is an effective tax rate of 3%. Here's how it works: you start with the federal tax rate of 21% and you make adjustments off of it based on tax deductions. For example, research and development allowed them to shave 2% off that rate. I won't make an ethical judgment on which adjustments are unfair and which are fair (there's a little bit of both), but in the end they're all legal. After all adjustments, the effective rate is what you wind up with. The thing to keep in mind is that the effective tax rate for any given year doesn't tell you the whole story. Sometimes tax adjustments get pulled forward/back to different years. For example, Blizzard's tax rates were: 2018: 3% 2017: 76% 2016: 13% Average: 30.67% So it's a bit sensationalist to look at any one year and cry foul. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a difference between cash tax rate and paper-tax rate. Sometimes the tax adjustment is simply an adjustment to their balance sheet but no money exchanges hands. When the U.S. Tax Reform Act passed, there were huge adjustments on companies' balance sheets that caused huge swings in effective tax rates. So it's a bit disingenuous for reporters to use these numbers and act like corporate America is screwing Uncle Sam (there are other ways you're getting screwed, but this isn't one of them). Long story short, taxes are complicated and while almost certainly this thread is going to be full of people screaming, "bloody murder," there's more to it than meets the eye. Tax info is on footnote page F-53 in their 10-K: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/718877/000104746919000788/a2237840z10-k.htm Bloody murder! Thanks for providing the info though 76% is as insane as 3%, wtf America. Why does it swing so much? Also @people saying that they are paying income taxes/taxes on dividents already: Smaller companies pay corporate taxes too. Whether corporate income tax is meaningful or not is a different discussion, but as a law it should apply to all companies more or less equally, right? And if anything global players like Atvi should pay more and not less? Big companies have large spreadsheets and have teams of people to find out how much they are worth and how much money they made. Imagine a company like blizzard, whose main asset is owning video games licenses. How much is each game worth? They could EASILY be making money on sales for example, but be losing value as a company because those games are getting old so sales will eventually stop and they have no real prospect of high sellers soon. It is really really complicated. Everyone should be paying less taxes. People get to keep their money and spend it how they see fit, instead of allocating those resources to politicians and their (lack) of judgement. I fully disagree with your opinion. People in general make worse choices on what they spend money on than politicians do. Politicians make a lot of bad choices, on average it is better though. Nobody lauds a government with 200 trillion in holdings and surpluses. While companies and people get lauded for it for some reason. It is the same thing, push the money back into standard of living. I will also agree though that there is a tax rate at which innovation is no longer promoted enough, it is probably around 90% on individual profit and 50% corporate. Which we are nowhere near. An example a lot of people agree with, you own a house with 5 rooms per person living there. Have 3 maids to manage to clean it and live there 3 days a month. You also own 22 cars, an airplane and three resort houses for when you have some time over. At that point the person is likely paying too little tax, the only exception would be the people making the greatest innovation in a decade or two. If them pushing the money back into new enterprises was taxed less (it usually is) then they avoid the tax by keeping people employed in a properly working system. Let government sort out trickle down if you are not actively doing it. So you want to surrender your liberty and take away others because some people make bad decisions. And willingly give your money to politicians because they can spend it better than you. You want individuals to be taxed at 90%? Companies at 50%? Have you ever worked? Do you know the standards of living in countries with 90% income tax rate? (hint: people make hour long lines to buy food.) I suppose you expect to be one of the ruling class politicians. If you ever... EVER hit the top marginal tax bracket and is having your top earned income taxed at 90%, you have NOTHING to worry about. I think you don't understand what a marginal tax bracket is though and think paying 90% tax on income is on ALL of your income. Not true. It's like this:
Even so, you are effectively capping income. By what right? Tyranny of the majority? The purpose of taxes should not be to regulate X or Y as the correct cap to income (good thing no-one capped in pre-1970's inflationary period, by the way.) The purpose should be to generate a solid base of revenue without overly burdening its citizens. Graduate income tax does that, but only so long as the top tax bracket remains south of 50%. But 90% blows way past that and clearly reveals the true purpose- limiting income, which is no business of the State.
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Reagan-omics is working!
ok, more seriously...
On April 16 2019 05:31 UrsusRex wrote:According to the link below Activision Blizzard despite making 447 million in profit for 2018 did not pay any taxes on its earning. In fact the U.S. government gave 228 million dollars back to Activision under current U.S. tax laws for 2018. So if we total everything blizzard made 675 million dollars in the U.S. and has not paid any taxes. Just thought this might be of interest to this particular forum. https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/companies-pay-zero-taxes-trump-tax-law-132512117.html
This article details how they do it.. and I don't think its "Donald Trump's fault". LOL
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-08-06-taxwatch-activision-blizzard-has-dodged-taxes-on-billions
There are different tax loopholes for different types of schemes. For whatever reason, one of my biggest customers, a direct marketing agency, uses Curacao for their tax shelter. I'm getting paid by some company that consists of a desk and a fax machine in a tiny room in Curacao.
I don't think that one is Donald Trump's fault either. This stuff has been going on for decades.
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On November 17 2019 07:52 Disregard wrote:
Wonder where all their tax credits come from to avoid paying any taxes. R&D or the whole stock compensation switch-a-roo?
Not only they avoid paying any taxes they also get subsidies from taxpayer money (over 200mil a year).
Unfortunately, in this world taxes are for the poor. If you watch some interviews with rich people they are of the opinion that only dumb people pay taxes - they're not saying poor people are dumb, they just don't have enough money to give them access to instruments that let you avoid taxation, but once you reach certain threshold with your income and you can get away from paying taxes why wouldn't you?
Personally I find it disgusting but I've reached such threshold myself some time ago where the amount of taxes I'm paying is becoming ridiculous (the government is taking away roughly 40% of my income) so I started looking into ways of optimizing it. Alas, most of the solutions seem rather shady (although I'm being assured by financial experts that they're 100% legit) so I'm rather hesitant in doing anything about it. Maybe I'm just dumb, but I don't really care about money that much.
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Ever since the events of Hong Kong and Blitzchung, something between me and all Blizzard deeply broke.
Now I read that employees cant afford to eat in Blizzard's own cafeteria because they get paid minimum wage, and have to surpress hunger with company issued coffee.
I mean, bow down to chinese propaganda to make money, steal Billions in taxes from US and EU citizens with "Tax-Optimization", and then literaly pay what in germany is called "Hungerlohn" - starvation wages.
Wow.
What I would do to all the tax heavens ?
Grant anyone who lives there, any lawyer, any bank clerk that does the accounting, the right to claim a postbox-companies total assets for their own and a 1st class flight in a military evacuation to germany/France/US
Get the 5 Billion from Blizzard, get the 50 Billion from Disney. And keep it for good, come to the country the companies stole from, and lead a happy life. You don't even had to pay taxes on the heist, just go live here and spent it. Buy 100 Ferraris, enjoy yourself...
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I wonder how long CDPR will last now that they've become publicly traded. I know they are saying to their shareholders that they intend to keep their current business model but only time will tell.
I think we need more privately owned game and software companies that don't have to deal with stock pressure as it's just a lot of shit that's being pushed down on employees.
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Yeah, if theres one thing that can be said for certain its that the need to drive sales above all things does NOT guarantee a quality product, no matter how much they can afford to spend on it. It DOES however, almost guarantee an exploitative product, so I wonder how long it'll be before their games become laden with garbage like microtransacations.
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EPT
