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Active: 1047 users

Activision Blizzard pays $0 in taxes for 2018

Forum Index > General Forum
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1 2 3 Next All
UrsusRex
Profile Joined July 2012
United States85 Posts
April 15 2019 20:31 GMT
#1
According to the link below Activision Blizzard despite making 447 million in profit for 2018 did not pay any taxes on its earning. In fact the U.S. government gave 228 million dollars back to Activision under current U.S. tax laws for 2018. So if we total everything blizzard made 675 million dollars in the U.S. and has not paid any taxes.

Just thought this might be of interest to this particular forum.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/companies-pay-zero-taxes-trump-tax-law-132512117.html
"It is not sufficient that I succeed - all others must fail" - Genghis Khan
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
April 15 2019 20:34 GMT
#2
They are good at optimizing.
TL+ Member
myRZeth
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1034 Posts
April 15 2019 20:43 GMT
#3
That's plain disgusting. A company with no values.
DumbestThingEver
Profile Joined April 2019
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-15 20:49:28
April 15 2019 20:48 GMT
#4
The system needs an overhaul.
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada6775 Posts
April 15 2019 20:50 GMT
#5
Seems legit
http://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
6690 Posts
April 15 2019 20:51 GMT
#6
Fairly standard, not even an outstanding example of this trend
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5059 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-15 21:13:07
April 15 2019 21:00 GMT
#7
No, they got back the money they paid.

I don't get why people don't understand this. Activision Blizzard paid taxes and got that amount back later. Not the same money, the government spent that money and hit some buttons on the US Treasury Money Machine and gave that money to Activision Blizzard.

When you file your tax return and the government gives you back X dollars 2 weeks to a month later it doesn't mean you didn't pay that money. If you hadn't paid it, the government would be giving you back precisely zero.
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
NinjaNight
Profile Joined January 2018
404 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-15 21:05:12
April 15 2019 21:03 GMT
#8
delete
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2105 Posts
April 15 2019 21:17 GMT
#9
On April 16 2019 06:00 DeepElemBlues wrote:
No, they got back the money they paid.

I don't get why people don't understand this. Activision Blizzard paid taxes and got that amount back later. Not the same money, the government spent that money and hit some buttons on the US Treasury Money Machine and gave that money to Activision Blizzard.

When you file your tax return and the government gives you back X dollars 2 weeks to a month later it doesn't mean you didn't pay that money. If you hadn't paid it, the government would be giving you back precisely zero.

even then, if it's really that easy for the government to just print money and give it out, the last place it should be going is right back into the pockets of multi billion dollar corporations. the system is still broken.
i maek map
Jathin
Profile Blog Joined February 2005
United States3501 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-15 21:29:21
April 15 2019 21:22 GMT
#10
So before this thread gets out of hand, there are a few things worth mentioning. First, the article is inaccurate. Activision Blizzard (ATVI) paid $64M in taxes in 2018, $878M in 2017, and $140M in 2016. Still, the $64M they paid in the last year is an effective tax rate of 3%.

Here's how it works: you start with the federal tax rate of 21% and you make adjustments off of it based on tax deductions. For example, research and development allowed them to shave 2% off that rate. I won't make an ethical judgment on which adjustments are unfair and which are fair (there's a little bit of both), but in the end they're all legal. After all adjustments, the effective rate is what you wind up with.

The thing to keep in mind is that the effective tax rate for any given year doesn't tell you the whole story. Sometimes tax adjustments get pulled forward/back to different years. For example, Blizzard's tax rates were:

2018: 3%
2017: 76%
2016: 13%
Average: 30.67%

So it's a bit sensationalist to look at any one year and cry foul. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a difference between cash tax rate and paper-tax rate. Sometimes the tax adjustment is simply an adjustment to their balance sheet but no money exchanges hands. When the U.S. Tax Reform Act passed, there were huge adjustments on companies' balance sheets that caused huge swings in effective tax rates. So it's a bit disingenuous for reporters to use these numbers and act like corporate America is screwing Uncle Sam (there are other ways you're getting screwed, but this isn't one of them).

Long story short, taxes are complicated and while almost certainly this thread is going to be full of people screaming, "bloody murder," there's more to it than meets the eye.

Tax info is on footnote page F-53 in their 10-K: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/718877/000104746919000788/a2237840z10-k.htm
~No man is worth your tears, and the one that is won't make you cry~
Boggyb
Profile Joined January 2017
2855 Posts
April 15 2019 21:32 GMT
#11
Taxing corporate profits don't make any sense. The money will be taxed when it reaches stockholders, so why tax it twice? Complaining about the tax rate on capitals gains is a lot more logical.
William paradise
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
1748 Posts
April 15 2019 21:33 GMT
#12
On April 16 2019 06:22 Jathin wrote:
So before this thread gets out of hand, there are a few things worth mentioning. First, the article is inaccurate. Activision Blizzard (ATVI) paid $64M in taxes in 2018, $878M in 2017, and $140M in 2016. Still, the $64M they paid in the last year is an effective tax rate of 3%.

Here's how it works: you start with the federal tax rate of 21% and you make adjustments off of it based on tax deductions. For example, research and development allowed them to shave 2% off that rate. I won't make an ethical judgment on which adjustments are unfair and which are fair (there's a little bit of both), but in the end they're all legal. After all adjustments, the effective rate is what you wind up with.

The thing to keep in mind is that the effective tax rate for any given year doesn't tell you the whole story. Sometimes tax adjustments get pulled forward/back to different years. For example, Blizzard's tax rates were:

2018: 3%
2017: 76%
2016: 13%
Average: 30.67%

So it's a bit sensationalist to look at any one year and cry foul. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a difference between cash tax rate and paper-tax rate. Sometimes the tax adjustment is simply an adjustment to their balance sheet but no money exchanges hands. When the U.S. Tax Reform Act passed, there were huge adjustments on companies' balance sheets that caused huge swings in effective tax rates. So it's a bit disingenuous for reporters to use these numbers and act like corporate America is screwing Uncle Sam (there are other ways you're getting screwed, but this isn't one of them).

Long story short, taxes are complicated and while almost certainly this thread is going to be full of people screaming, "bloody murder," there's more to it than meets the eye.

Tax info is on footnote page F-53 in their 10-K: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/718877/000104746919000788/a2237840z10-k.htm

Just want to say thank you for this actually informing people and then they can research more if they want.
ok
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18238 Posts
April 15 2019 21:41 GMT
#13
On April 16 2019 05:43 myRZeth wrote:
That's plain disgusting. A company with no values.


It's a lot harder to make sub-optimal (short-term) financial decisions when you're a public company. Most of its owners are just looking for that sweet sweet financial return, so you got to take advantage of the tax code whenever you can.

Plus, most people just don't see cheating the govt. out of taxes as negatively as cheating individual people or a nonprofit
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
fishjie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1515 Posts
April 15 2019 22:09 GMT
#14
companies have a fiduciary responsibility to shareholders to reduce the taxes they pay. taxes suck, so minimizing them is fantastic. also not to mention, employees are already income taxed, and since theyre in cali, they get hit with state income tax as well. so dont worry the government is getting their hands on tax dollars one way or another
Defessus
Profile Joined July 2011
Korea (South)46 Posts
April 15 2019 23:59 GMT
#15
On April 16 2019 07:09 fishjie wrote:
dont worry the government is getting their hands on tax dollars one way or another



In the age of globalization, this is no longer true.
404AlphaSquad
Profile Joined October 2011
812 Posts
April 16 2019 02:48 GMT
#16
Most of ATVI s money is stored in the netherlands anyways to avoid taxation.
https://thecorrespondent.com/6942/bermuda-guess-again-turns-out-holland-is-the-tax-haven-of-choice-for-us-companies/417639737658-b85252de
aka Kalevi
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada14304 Posts
April 16 2019 03:09 GMT
#17
My customers really like keeping their money in Curacao. For amounts under $40 million, apparently, there is no place better.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
665 Posts
April 16 2019 08:21 GMT
#18
On April 16 2019 06:22 Jathin wrote:
So before this thread gets out of hand, there are a few things worth mentioning. First, the article is inaccurate. Activision Blizzard (ATVI) paid $64M in taxes in 2018, $878M in 2017, and $140M in 2016. Still, the $64M they paid in the last year is an effective tax rate of 3%.

Here's how it works: you start with the federal tax rate of 21% and you make adjustments off of it based on tax deductions. For example, research and development allowed them to shave 2% off that rate. I won't make an ethical judgment on which adjustments are unfair and which are fair (there's a little bit of both), but in the end they're all legal. After all adjustments, the effective rate is what you wind up with.

The thing to keep in mind is that the effective tax rate for any given year doesn't tell you the whole story. Sometimes tax adjustments get pulled forward/back to different years. For example, Blizzard's tax rates were:

2018: 3%
2017: 76%
2016: 13%
Average: 30.67%

So it's a bit sensationalist to look at any one year and cry foul. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a difference between cash tax rate and paper-tax rate. Sometimes the tax adjustment is simply an adjustment to their balance sheet but no money exchanges hands. When the U.S. Tax Reform Act passed, there were huge adjustments on companies' balance sheets that caused huge swings in effective tax rates. So it's a bit disingenuous for reporters to use these numbers and act like corporate America is screwing Uncle Sam (there are other ways you're getting screwed, but this isn't one of them).

Long story short, taxes are complicated and while almost certainly this thread is going to be full of people screaming, "bloody murder," there's more to it than meets the eye.

Tax info is on footnote page F-53 in their 10-K: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/718877/000104746919000788/a2237840z10-k.htm

Bloody murder!
Thanks for providing the info though 76% is as insane as 3%, wtf America. Why does it swing so much?

Also @people saying that they are paying income taxes/taxes on dividents already: Smaller companies pay corporate taxes too. Whether corporate income tax is meaningful or not is a different discussion, but as a law it should apply to all companies more or less equally, right? And if anything global players like Atvi should pay more and not less?
low gravity, yes-yes!
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6135 Posts
April 16 2019 10:52 GMT
#19
On April 16 2019 05:51 Geo.Rion wrote:
Fairly standard, not even an outstanding example of this trend


doesnt change the fact its the disgusting tower of how bad capitalism can go when no one even tries to control it
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-16 14:14:37
April 16 2019 14:14 GMT
#20
On April 16 2019 17:21 Archeon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2019 06:22 Jathin wrote:
So before this thread gets out of hand, there are a few things worth mentioning. First, the article is inaccurate. Activision Blizzard (ATVI) paid $64M in taxes in 2018, $878M in 2017, and $140M in 2016. Still, the $64M they paid in the last year is an effective tax rate of 3%.

Here's how it works: you start with the federal tax rate of 21% and you make adjustments off of it based on tax deductions. For example, research and development allowed them to shave 2% off that rate. I won't make an ethical judgment on which adjustments are unfair and which are fair (there's a little bit of both), but in the end they're all legal. After all adjustments, the effective rate is what you wind up with.

The thing to keep in mind is that the effective tax rate for any given year doesn't tell you the whole story. Sometimes tax adjustments get pulled forward/back to different years. For example, Blizzard's tax rates were:

2018: 3%
2017: 76%
2016: 13%
Average: 30.67%

So it's a bit sensationalist to look at any one year and cry foul. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a difference between cash tax rate and paper-tax rate. Sometimes the tax adjustment is simply an adjustment to their balance sheet but no money exchanges hands. When the U.S. Tax Reform Act passed, there were huge adjustments on companies' balance sheets that caused huge swings in effective tax rates. So it's a bit disingenuous for reporters to use these numbers and act like corporate America is screwing Uncle Sam (there are other ways you're getting screwed, but this isn't one of them).

Long story short, taxes are complicated and while almost certainly this thread is going to be full of people screaming, "bloody murder," there's more to it than meets the eye.

Tax info is on footnote page F-53 in their 10-K: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/718877/000104746919000788/a2237840z10-k.htm

Bloody murder!
Thanks for providing the info though 76% is as insane as 3%, wtf America. Why does it swing so much?

Also @people saying that they are paying income taxes/taxes on dividents already: Smaller companies pay corporate taxes too. Whether corporate income tax is meaningful or not is a different discussion, but as a law it should apply to all companies more or less equally, right? And if anything global players like Atvi should pay more and not less?


Big companies have large spreadsheets and have teams of people to find out how much they are worth and how much money they made. Imagine a company like blizzard, whose main asset is owning video games licenses. How much is each game worth? They could EASILY be making money on sales for example, but be losing value as a company because those games are getting old so sales will eventually stop and they have no real prospect of high sellers soon. It is really really complicated.

Everyone should be paying less taxes. People get to keep their money and spend it how they see fit, instead of allocating those resources to politicians and their (lack) of judgement.
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