WCSJust thought this might be of interest to this particular forum.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/companies-pay-zero-taxes-trump-tax-law-132512117.html
Activision Blizzard pays 0$ in taxes for 2018
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UrsusRex
United States85 Posts
Just thought this might be of interest to this particular forum. https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/companies-pay-zero-taxes-trump-tax-law-132512117.html | ||
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DieuCure
France3195 Posts
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myRZeth
Germany1033 Posts
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DumbestThingEver
4 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada4206 Posts
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Geo.Rion
6144 Posts
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DeepElemBlues
United States4982 Posts
I don't get why people don't understand this. Activision Blizzard paid taxes and got that amount back later. Not the same money, the government spent that money and hit some buttons on the US Treasury Money Machine and gave that money to Activision Blizzard. When you file your tax return and the government gives you back X dollars 2 weeks to a month later it doesn't mean you didn't pay that money. If you hadn't paid it, the government would be giving you back precisely zero. | ||
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NinjaNight
252 Posts
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-NegativeZero-
United States2070 Posts
On April 16 2019 06:00 DeepElemBlues wrote: No, they got back the money they paid. I don't get why people don't understand this. Activision Blizzard paid taxes and got that amount back later. Not the same money, the government spent that money and hit some buttons on the US Treasury Money Machine and gave that money to Activision Blizzard. When you file your tax return and the government gives you back X dollars 2 weeks to a month later it doesn't mean you didn't pay that money. If you hadn't paid it, the government would be giving you back precisely zero. even then, if it's really that easy for the government to just print money and give it out, the last place it should be going is right back into the pockets of multi billion dollar corporations. the system is still broken. | ||
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Jathin
United States3483 Posts
Here's how it works: you start with the federal tax rate of 21% and you make adjustments off of it based on tax deductions. For example, research and development allowed them to shave 2% off that rate. I won't make an ethical judgment on which adjustments are unfair and which are fair (there's a little bit of both), but in the end they're all legal. After all adjustments, the effective rate is what you wind up with. The thing to keep in mind is that the effective tax rate for any given year doesn't tell you the whole story. Sometimes tax adjustments get pulled forward/back to different years. For example, Blizzard's tax rates were: 2018: 3% 2017: 76% 2016: 13% Average: 30.67% So it's a bit sensationalist to look at any one year and cry foul. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a difference between cash tax rate and paper-tax rate. Sometimes the tax adjustment is simply an adjustment to their balance sheet but no money exchanges hands. When the U.S. Tax Reform Act passed, there were huge adjustments on companies' balance sheets that caused huge swings in effective tax rates. So it's a bit disingenuous for reporters to use these numbers and act like corporate America is screwing Uncle Sam (there are other ways you're getting screwed, but this isn't one of them). Long story short, taxes are complicated and while almost certainly this thread is going to be full of people screaming, "bloody murder," there's more to it than meets the eye. Tax info is on footnote page F-53 in their 10-K: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/718877/000104746919000788/a2237840z10-k.htm | ||
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Boggyb
2513 Posts
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William paradise
1747 Posts
On April 16 2019 06:22 Jathin wrote: So before this thread gets out of hand, there are a few things worth mentioning. First, the article is inaccurate. Activision Blizzard (ATVI) paid $64M in taxes in 2018, $878M in 2017, and $140M in 2016. Still, the $64M they paid in the last year is an effective tax rate of 3%. Here's how it works: you start with the federal tax rate of 21% and you make adjustments off of it based on tax deductions. For example, research and development allowed them to shave 2% off that rate. I won't make an ethical judgment on which adjustments are unfair and which are fair (there's a little bit of both), but in the end they're all legal. After all adjustments, the effective rate is what you wind up with. The thing to keep in mind is that the effective tax rate for any given year doesn't tell you the whole story. Sometimes tax adjustments get pulled forward/back to different years. For example, Blizzard's tax rates were: 2018: 3% 2017: 76% 2016: 13% Average: 30.67% So it's a bit sensationalist to look at any one year and cry foul. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a difference between cash tax rate and paper-tax rate. Sometimes the tax adjustment is simply an adjustment to their balance sheet but no money exchanges hands. When the U.S. Tax Reform Act passed, there were huge adjustments on companies' balance sheets that caused huge swings in effective tax rates. So it's a bit disingenuous for reporters to use these numbers and act like corporate America is screwing Uncle Sam (there are other ways you're getting screwed, but this isn't one of them). Long story short, taxes are complicated and while almost certainly this thread is going to be full of people screaming, "bloody murder," there's more to it than meets the eye. Tax info is on footnote page F-53 in their 10-K: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/718877/000104746919000788/a2237840z10-k.htm Just want to say thank you for this actually informing people and then they can research more if they want. | ||
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Bagration
United States17876 Posts
On April 16 2019 05:43 myRZeth wrote: That's plain disgusting. A company with no values. It's a lot harder to make sub-optimal (short-term) financial decisions when you're a public company. Most of its owners are just looking for that sweet sweet financial return, so you got to take advantage of the tax code whenever you can. Plus, most people just don't see cheating the govt. out of taxes as negatively as cheating individual people or a nonprofit | ||
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fishjie
United States1396 Posts
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Defessus
Korea (South)46 Posts
On April 16 2019 07:09 fishjie wrote: dont worry the government is getting their hands on tax dollars one way or another In the age of globalization, this is no longer true. | ||
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404AlphaSquad
Luxembourg800 Posts
https://thecorrespondent.com/6942/bermuda-guess-again-turns-out-holland-is-the-tax-haven-of-choice-for-us-companies/417639737658-b85252de | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada12830 Posts
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Archeon
569 Posts
On April 16 2019 06:22 Jathin wrote: So before this thread gets out of hand, there are a few things worth mentioning. First, the article is inaccurate. Activision Blizzard (ATVI) paid $64M in taxes in 2018, $878M in 2017, and $140M in 2016. Still, the $64M they paid in the last year is an effective tax rate of 3%. Here's how it works: you start with the federal tax rate of 21% and you make adjustments off of it based on tax deductions. For example, research and development allowed them to shave 2% off that rate. I won't make an ethical judgment on which adjustments are unfair and which are fair (there's a little bit of both), but in the end they're all legal. After all adjustments, the effective rate is what you wind up with. The thing to keep in mind is that the effective tax rate for any given year doesn't tell you the whole story. Sometimes tax adjustments get pulled forward/back to different years. For example, Blizzard's tax rates were: 2018: 3% 2017: 76% 2016: 13% Average: 30.67% So it's a bit sensationalist to look at any one year and cry foul. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a difference between cash tax rate and paper-tax rate. Sometimes the tax adjustment is simply an adjustment to their balance sheet but no money exchanges hands. When the U.S. Tax Reform Act passed, there were huge adjustments on companies' balance sheets that caused huge swings in effective tax rates. So it's a bit disingenuous for reporters to use these numbers and act like corporate America is screwing Uncle Sam (there are other ways you're getting screwed, but this isn't one of them). Long story short, taxes are complicated and while almost certainly this thread is going to be full of people screaming, "bloody murder," there's more to it than meets the eye. Tax info is on footnote page F-53 in their 10-K: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/718877/000104746919000788/a2237840z10-k.htm Bloody murder! Thanks for providing the info though  76% is as insane as 3%, wtf America. Why does it swing so much?Also @people saying that they are paying income taxes/taxes on dividents already: Smaller companies pay corporate taxes too. Whether corporate income tax is meaningful or not is a different discussion, but as a law it should apply to all companies more or less equally, right? And if anything global players like Atvi should pay more and not less? | ||
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Drake
Germany6125 Posts
On April 16 2019 05:51 Geo.Rion wrote: Fairly standard, not even an outstanding example of this trend doesnt change the fact its the disgusting tower of how bad capitalism can go when no one even tries to control it | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4349 Posts
On April 16 2019 17:21 Archeon wrote: Bloody murder! Thanks for providing the info though 76% is as insane as 3%, wtf America. Why does it swing so much?Also @people saying that they are paying income taxes/taxes on dividents already: Smaller companies pay corporate taxes too. Whether corporate income tax is meaningful or not is a different discussion, but as a law it should apply to all companies more or less equally, right? And if anything global players like Atvi should pay more and not less? Big companies have large spreadsheets and have teams of people to find out how much they are worth and how much money they made. Imagine a company like blizzard, whose main asset is owning video games licenses. How much is each game worth? They could EASILY be making money on sales for example, but be losing value as a company because those games are getting old so sales will eventually stop and they have no real prospect of high sellers soon. It is really really complicated. Everyone should be paying less taxes. People get to keep their money and spend it how they see fit, instead of allocating those resources to politicians and their (lack) of judgement. | ||
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