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On February 27 2020 10:15 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 01:52 CorsairHero wrote:On February 26 2020 20:04 BerserkSword wrote:On February 26 2020 13:37 CorsairHero wrote:
Thats a list, not an algorithm. Now if he can list how all those things are put together into a way to screen stocks with buy sell signals then thats interesting. lol as far as I know algos that are consistently profitable cost millions of dollars are in the hands of financial institutions. good luck getting your hands on them good luck finding a solo retail trader who has one, and, if he does, is willing to give it out for free. All the "algos" "bots" and "scripts" Ive seen in the retail trade world, including those advertised by "trade gurus" lose money. That's just my experience as someone who trades for a living. I think you're looking for a shortcut that practically doesn't exist. I spend hours a day charting everything I trade. I don't have a "screener" - I have a list of things that I have found a pulse on and regularly trade. Once in a while if I come across what I believe to be a good trade setup on something I don't trade regularly, I will take it (like that oil long i posted about here, or that bynd trade). The closest thing I ever did to screening was simple screening for spikes in options activity on thinkorswim, which I don't do anymore. it almost like you're making the case for index investing since trading is too unpredictable, unexplainable and time consuming for wealth building in the retail space index investing takes 0 minutes a day if automated Trading has an extremely high learning curve and takes certain personality traits to do successfully. Just because most people can’t make a living off of it or accumulate wealth with it does not mean it’s too unpredictabl and unexplainable to do as a retail participant. In return you have the ability to make profits investors can only dream of.
Stats don't back that up at all. Even 92% of fund managers can't beat the boring s&p 500 investor. So whatever charts you're looking at, maybe the fund managers don't have the ability to understand it?
This is not a one-year phenomenon. S&P has been doing this study for 16 years, and the long-term results only strengthen the claims for index investing. Indeed, while a fund manager may outperform for a year or two, the outperformance does not persist. After 10 years, 85 percent of large cap funds underperformed the S&P 500, and after 15 years, nearly 92 percent are trailing the index.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/19/why-index-funds-are-a-smart-investment.html
Are you beating the index because you're making risky moves that those fund managers won't even make?
Anyways, good luck to you traders out there. I (and other indexers) already own whatever you guys are trading in the stock market.
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On February 27 2020 14:06 CorsairHero wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 10:15 BerserkSword wrote:On February 27 2020 01:52 CorsairHero wrote:On February 26 2020 20:04 BerserkSword wrote:On February 26 2020 13:37 CorsairHero wrote:
Thats a list, not an algorithm. Now if he can list how all those things are put together into a way to screen stocks with buy sell signals then thats interesting. lol as far as I know algos that are consistently profitable cost millions of dollars are in the hands of financial institutions. good luck getting your hands on them good luck finding a solo retail trader who has one, and, if he does, is willing to give it out for free. All the "algos" "bots" and "scripts" Ive seen in the retail trade world, including those advertised by "trade gurus" lose money. That's just my experience as someone who trades for a living. I think you're looking for a shortcut that practically doesn't exist. I spend hours a day charting everything I trade. I don't have a "screener" - I have a list of things that I have found a pulse on and regularly trade. Once in a while if I come across what I believe to be a good trade setup on something I don't trade regularly, I will take it (like that oil long i posted about here, or that bynd trade). The closest thing I ever did to screening was simple screening for spikes in options activity on thinkorswim, which I don't do anymore. it almost like you're making the case for index investing since trading is too unpredictable, unexplainable and time consuming for wealth building in the retail space index investing takes 0 minutes a day if automated Trading has an extremely high learning curve and takes certain personality traits to do successfully. Just because most people can’t make a living off of it or accumulate wealth with it does not mean it’s too unpredictabl and unexplainable to do as a retail participant. In return you have the ability to make profits investors can only dream of. Stats don't back that up at all. Even 92% of fund managers can't beat the boring s&p 500 investor. So whatever charts you're looking at, maybe the fund managers don't have the ability to understand it? Show nested quote +This is not a one-year phenomenon. S&P has been doing this study for 16 years, and the long-term results only strengthen the claims for index investing. Indeed, while a fund manager may outperform for a year or two, the outperformance does not persist. After 10 years, 85 percent of large cap funds underperformed the S&P 500, and after 15 years, nearly 92 percent are trailing the index. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/19/why-index-funds-are-a-smart-investment.htmlAre you beating the index because you're making risky moves that those fund managers won't even make? Anyways, good luck to you traders out there. I (and other indexers) already own whatever you guys are trading in the stock market.
Uhhh are fund managers not investors? Again, I am a trader, not an investor. Traders can make profits that a simple sp500 investor can only dream of.
Funds, at least ones of significant size, cannot operate the way retail traders operate anyway. The goal of retail traders is to ride the coattails of the financial institutions. Beyond the fact that funds are involved in investing not trading, fund managers working with institution-sized accounts cannot simply enter and exit the market with ease like most retail traders can. There is not enough liquidity for them to do so - and when they do enter the market they are a significantly bigger target in terms of liquidity hunting. There is something called institutional order flow. Long story short - I do not have to trade like an institution. An institution cannot trade like I do. A big institutional account will never be able to achieve the same percentage growth that a retail trader is capable of.
And yes, trading is riskier than doing something like DCA'ing into an index.....it's also FAR more rewarding if you know what youre doing. Traders aren't even concerned with beating the index....that's how much greater the returns on trades are lol
Considering I and most other traders trade derivatives like options and futures, you dont own what I trade lol.
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Traders can make profits that a simple sp500 investor can only dream of.
ok lol
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United States43860 Posts
On February 27 2020 15:29 CorsairHero wrote:ok lol
Might as well have told us that bank robbers can make profits that a simple salaried employee can only dream of. Can is the key word there. Someone forgot the risk in their risk adjusted returns.
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On February 27 2020 15:29 CorsairHero wrote:ok lol
I mean it seems youre pretty clueless about trading, considering you posted articles about fund managers in a discussion about trading lol.
In any case, feel free to pull up the price chart of any random option and see how drastically they fluctuate compared to your average stock/index. The fact of the matter is that traders arent even thinking about paltry index investor level returns....which is because we take on greater risk. Higher risk higher reward. It's not rocket science lol.
You can also learn about the differences between trading and investing here:
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/12/difference-investing-trading.asp
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On February 27 2020 15:35 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 15:29 CorsairHero wrote:Traders can make profits that a simple sp500 investor can only dream of. ok lol Might as well have told us that bank robbers can make profits that a simple salaried employee can only dream of. Can is the key word there. Someone forgot the risk in their risk adjusted returns.
I already told him about investing having lower risk than trading in post 320 and 322, but okay "i forgot"
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On February 27 2020 15:39 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 15:29 CorsairHero wrote:Traders can make profits that a simple sp500 investor can only dream of. ok lol I mean it seems youre pretty clueless about trading, considering you posted articles about fund managers in a discussion about trading lol. In any case, feel free to pull up the price chart of any random option and see how drastically they fluctuate compared to your average stock/index. The fact of the matter is that traders arent even thinking about paltry index investor level returns....which is because we take on greater risk. Higher risk higher reward. It's not rocket science lol. You can also learn about the differences between trading and investing here: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/12/difference-investing-trading.asp
active funds make trades...
You also don't get that the underlying assets you play with are in the all cap index already and thus owned by index investors, like Tesla in the previous page
you also have no idea on how to quantify risk but at least you know what you're doing is riskier than owning everything so congrats on that
but thank you for telling me the difference between a trader and investor
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On February 27 2020 15:50 CorsairHero wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 15:39 BerserkSword wrote:On February 27 2020 15:29 CorsairHero wrote:Traders can make profits that a simple sp500 investor can only dream of. ok lol I mean it seems youre pretty clueless about trading, considering you posted articles about fund managers in a discussion about trading lol. In any case, feel free to pull up the price chart of any random option and see how drastically they fluctuate compared to your average stock/index. The fact of the matter is that traders arent even thinking about paltry index investor level returns....which is because we take on greater risk. Higher risk higher reward. It's not rocket science lol. You can also learn about the differences between trading and investing here: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/12/difference-investing-trading.asp active funds make trades... You also don't get that the underlying assets you play with are in the all cap index already and thus owned by index investors, like Tesla in the previous page but thank you for telling me the difference between a trader and investor
Dude, you said fund managers. Fund managers are investors as far as I know.
An active fund may have "trades" involved but they are not executed by a fund manager
https://work.chron.com/trader-vs-portfolio-manager-22328.html
https://www.quora.com/Is-a-portfolio-manager-just-a-fancy-title-for-a-trader
This is all semantics anyway. Ultimately, the whole point of a fund is investment.
I never said that the underlying would not be in a fund....most funds don't have derivatives though. None of that even matters. Traders just want to make money - make money when something is going up, down , or sideways.
Look, like I said before, different market participants, different goals, different strategies.
Traders develop (or try to develop) an edge in the market, take on higher risk, and seek higher reward. If youre good enough you can make it work.
The fact remains that trading is not too unpredictable, unexplainable and time consuming for wealth building in the retail space
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Imo for retail like us, the closest thing to investing is to put a set amount of money you're comfortable with each month into safe stocks (credit rating matters). Emphasis on stocks. And also physical precious metals.
That's the boring, safe but long-term profitable game.
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I have made some pretty huge returns from put on AAL and call on GILD
making another call on GILD, 2 month put on SPY, might put on UAL and DAL, might consider a call on MRNA if it drops a little first.
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who has a higher suicide rate? dentists or traders?
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United States10360 Posts
On February 28 2020 00:30 travis wrote:
I have made some pretty huge returns from put on AAL and call on GILD
making another call on GILD, 2 month put on SPY, might put on UAL and DAL, might consider a put on MRNA if it drops a little first.
stop giving away our AAL put secrets. jk i didn't make the bet and im sad.
It's weird having puts in robhinhood while my 401k is sitting in my etrade account. Guess I'm just trying to mitigate losses right now lol
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I put my 401k into a property, that's going to have a better return in the long run. I've just started to get into options, so looking forward to learning more. I did really good calls on some weed stocks last year where I put $300 in and got $1300 out of it, was nice.
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FNGU down 40% in a week
time to switch to TVIX?
big reward, big losses
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Opened a leveraged long on bitcoin at 8825.2
Stop loss 8805.5
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On February 28 2020 05:29 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I put my 401k into a property, that's going to have a better return in the long run. I've just started to get into options, so looking forward to learning more. I did really good calls on some weed stocks last year where I put $300 in and got $1300 out of it, was nice.
Do you technical analysis?
If so, look into wave theory. The Neely book is what I learned most from altho I also read pretcher and frost.
Options are insanely easy (for me) as long as you can identify impulse vs correction.
Not financial advice
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Latest €-strength imo a short-squeeze before being roasted for good.
Greek bond yields slowly but surely reversing.
Newmont got hit in the crossfire, but with the overall market below October levels, it gives me confidence that the stock didn't lose its pre 2/13 support.
Now I'm just waiting for politics to drop the bomb on some EU bank.
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With the fastest correction in history and 6 trillion gone in 6 days, good luck traders
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On February 29 2020 02:50 CorsairHero wrote:
With the fastest correction in history and 6 trillion gone in 6 days, good luck traders
Don't worry, the SNB and BOJ will keep scooping cheap stock up while retail runs for the hills.
I'd expect a rebound to the upside for the next week. Not advice, as usual.
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On February 29 2020 02:50 CorsairHero wrote:
With the fastest correction in history and 6 trillion gone in 6 days, good luck traders
rofl
you realize that traders can make bank from these kinds of things right?
Traders can make money when market goes up, down, and sidways
you should be wishing luck to investors who are watching their portfolios jumping off a cliff.
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EPT
