Hopefully cooler heads prevail but this isn't looking too good. It also makes the situation a lot more complex seeing how FARC has been welcomed, especially it's leaders, in Valenzuela. All it takes is evidence of support coming from them to the rebels to make S. America a diplomatic powder keg.
MEDELLÍN, Colombia — A former top commander of Colombia’s largest rebel group, the Revolutionary Armed Forces, vowed a return to war and issued a new call to arms on Thursday, three years after the rebels signed a peace deal to disarm.
The commander, whose real name is Luciano Marín but is known by the alias Iván Márquez said in a newly released video that his group, known as FARC, would return to fighting because the government had not honored the agreement.
He called for “a new phase of the struggle” for the group under “the universal right that all people have to raise arms against oppression.”
There was no immediate reaction from the Colombian government.
In the video, Mr. Márquez appears alongside two other rebel commanders whose whereabouts have been unknown. All appeared armed and in uniform, flanked by other rebels in what seemed to be a new guerrilla camp in the jungle.
Three years ago next month, FARC signed a peace deal with the government meant to end a 52-year war in which an estimated 220,000 people were killed and millions were displaced from their homes. Mr. Márquez had been one of the negotiators of the accords, which were hammered out over years in Cuba.
“This is a continuation of the guerrilla struggle in response to the betrayal of the state’s betrayal of the Havana accords,” he said. “It’s the march of Colombia’s poor, ignored and despised, toward justice, which glimmers in the hills of the future.”
The colombian government, backed by the international left and AGAINST a popular referendum in the country, sponsored a massive pardon, parliament seats and tons of money towards FARC terrorist and criminals when the movement was close to complete military defeat. This as a result of the "Havana accords".
Naturally, they used all of this to revitalize the movement and on top of it put the blame on the colombian government.
Hopefully this time stupidity will be left aside, and they will get hunt down, killed or imprisoned, and the movement disbanded as they should have last time.
On August 30 2019 02:44 JimmiC wrote: I'm worried it could lead to a war between Venezuela and Columbia. The FARC is allowed to freely operate in Venezuela and has helped Maduro keep control and increased the reach of his drug empire. So they will be well funded and make attacks then retreat across the border. At some point the Columbia military is going to chase.
Yes the terrorist group has financing and ground safe haven now. It is a terrible situation.
On August 30 2019 02:44 JimmiC wrote: I'm worried it could lead to a war between Venezuela and Columbia. The FARC is allowed to freely operate in Venezuela and has helped Maduro keep control and increased the reach of his drug empire. So they will be well funded and make attacks then retreat across the border. At some point the Columbia military is going to chase.
Yes the terrorist group has financing and ground safe haven now. It is a terrible situation.
afaik the terrorists that run Columbia have been well financed for a long time now. FARC only exists because of (increasing) wealth disparity in Columbia.
On August 30 2019 02:44 JimmiC wrote: I'm worried it could lead to a war between Venezuela and Columbia. The FARC is allowed to freely operate in Venezuela and has helped Maduro keep control and increased the reach of his drug empire. So they will be well funded and make attacks then retreat across the border. At some point the Columbia military is going to chase.
Yes the terrorist group has financing and ground safe haven now. It is a terrible situation.
afaik the terrorists that run Columbia have been well financed for a long time now. FARC only exists because of (increasing) wealth disparity in Columbia.
The FARC terrorist group also have fringe extreme left wing supporters, like yourself.
They have, for decades, participated in killing, raping, kidnapping, torturing and other lovely activities, but certain people just can't resist to support them and their criminal activities because in your make believe world that's how you fight certain inequalities.
On August 30 2019 02:44 JimmiC wrote: I'm worried it could lead to a war between Venezuela and Columbia. The FARC is allowed to freely operate in Venezuela and has helped Maduro keep control and increased the reach of his drug empire. So they will be well funded and make attacks then retreat across the border. At some point the Columbia military is going to chase.
Yes the terrorist group has financing and ground safe haven now. It is a terrible situation.
afaik the terrorists that run Columbia have been well financed for a long time now. FARC only exists because of (increasing) wealth disparity in Columbia.
The FARC terrorist group also have fringe extreme left wing supporters, like yourself.
They have, for decades, participated in killing, raping, kidnapping, torturing and other lovely activities, but certain people just can't resist to support them and their criminal activities because in your make believe world that's how you fight certain inequalities.
I just see the potential for a sort of Pinochet II and we're on opposite sides of that.
What part of that do you think doesn't apply to you as a fringe extreme right winger and your support for Colombia/CIA assassins?
On August 30 2019 02:44 JimmiC wrote: I'm worried it could lead to a war between Venezuela and Columbia. The FARC is allowed to freely operate in Venezuela and has helped Maduro keep control and increased the reach of his drug empire. So they will be well funded and make attacks then retreat across the border. At some point the Columbia military is going to chase.
Yes the terrorist group has financing and ground safe haven now. It is a terrible situation.
afaik the terrorists that run Columbia have been well financed for a long time now. FARC only exists because of (increasing) wealth disparity in Columbia.
The FARC terrorist group also have fringe extreme left wing supporters, like yourself.
They have, for decades, participated in killing, raping, kidnapping, torturing and other lovely activities, but certain people just can't resist to support them and their criminal activities because in your make believe world that's how you fight certain inequalities.
I just see the potential for a sort of Pinochet II and we're on opposite sides of that.
What part of that do you think doesn't apply to you as a fringe extreme right winger and your support for Colombia/CIA assassins?
I don't see nothing, we are not on opposites sides of anything other than your support for the decades old criminal gang called FARC, fueled by your deranged hatred of the US.
On August 30 2019 02:34 GoTuNk! wrote: The colombian government, backed by the international left and AGAINST a popular referendum in the country, sponsored a massive pardon, parliament seats and tons of money towards FARC terrorist and criminals when the movement was close to complete military defeat. This as a result of the "Havana accords".
Naturally, they used all of this to revitalize the movement and on top of it put the blame on the colombian government.
Hopefully this time stupidity will be left aside, and they will get hunt down, killed or imprisoned, and the movement disbanded as they should have last time.
That the FARCs were close to a complete military defeat is wishful thinking. With 50 or so years of civil war, negotiated amnesty was a necessary evil, just as they were when military dictatorships crumbled in south america. That said, this is way too early to say that things will return to civil war, this is just one leader, and much of the FARCs are not as structured as they were before the Havana Accords.
On August 30 2019 02:44 JimmiC wrote: I'm worried it could lead to a war between Venezuela and Columbia. The FARC is allowed to freely operate in Venezuela and has helped Maduro keep control and increased the reach of his drug empire. So they will be well funded and make attacks then retreat across the border. At some point the Columbia military is going to chase.
Yes the terrorist group has financing and ground safe haven now. It is a terrible situation.
afaik the terrorists that run Columbia have been well financed for a long time now. FARC only exists because of (increasing) wealth disparity in Columbia.
The FARC terrorist group also have fringe extreme left wing supporters, like yourself.
They have, for decades, participated in killing, raping, kidnapping, torturing and other lovely activities, but certain people just can't resist to support them and their criminal activities because in your make believe world that's how you fight certain inequalities.
I just see the potential for a sort of Pinochet II and we're on opposite sides of that.
What part of that do you think doesn't apply to you as a fringe extreme right winger and your support for Colombia/CIA assassins?
I don't see nothing, we are not on opposites sides of anything other than your support for the decades old criminal gang called FARC, fueled by your deranged hatred of the US.
You expressed support of the previous attempt of Colombian government/CIA supported assassinations of FARC members. You called for the hunting down and imprisonment of FARC members in Venezuela. and expressed support for Pinochet in Chile. I don't know how you can't see it?
I'm presuming you did realize you described yourself but replaced "Columbia/CIA" with "FARC" and "right" with "left" with the other part.
On August 30 2019 04:22 JimmiC wrote: I read over the Wiki which is pretty extensive and a few other writings on the FARC. Here is a little bit of a summary from it and the link for those who want more.
FARC - started out to try to take out the right wing groups that were both in the government and rightwing paramilitary groups that controlled the drugs
- They started a form of "taxing" all the drug trade in areas that they controlled and were "better" than the paramilitary drug cartels, ex when they caught some one breaking the rules they would force them out rather than kill them. Initially they were popular with the people in this area because they also forced the drug lords to pay better salaries and so on.
- Over time they became more involved until it just became them running it. They also did kidnappings and so on to raise money. This could be of military, police and government members and their families or just regular people. They would kill and torture if not paid. They also forced people to join at threat of violence.
-They had started to lose their popularity because of this but a water shed moment was when they killed 3 indigenous aid workers trying to build a school. This was not the only time they did this, but it was the most notable one and the one that hurt their image the most.
- By 2008 they were seen as terrorists by most of the people of Columbia and millions of Colombians came together to protest the FARC. Protest were held in 45 Colombian cities and towns, with an estimated 1.5 million people coming out in Bogotá alone. Solidarity rallies were held in some 200 cities worldwide including Berlin, Barcelona, London, Madrid, Toronto, Dubai, Miami, New York, Brisbane, and La Paz.
-in 2016 they singed peace treaties, a referendum failed but congress made some changes and ratified it.
-They created a peaceful actual political party called Common Alternative Revolution Force. Which won .5 % of the vote in the last elections in 2018 and 5 seats. (not very popular)
- about 2000-5000 remained with FARC and the drug trade.
I think you missed this critical part about FARC and ELN. They are the scum of earth and people like GH defending them because "the US, the CIA, Colombian assasins" or w/e he regularly parrots about is truly depicable.
According to a study by Colombia's National Centre for Historical Memory, 220,000 people have died in the conflict between 1958 and 2013, most of them civilians (177,307 civilians and 40,787 fighters) and more than five million civilians were forced from their homes between 1985 – 2012, generating the world's second largest population of internally displaced persons (IDPs).[32][45][46] 16.9% of the population in Colombia has been a direct victim of the war.[47] 2.3 million children have been displaced from their homes, and 45,000 children killed, according to national figures cited by Unicef. In total, one in three of the 7.6 million registered victims of the conflict are children, and since 1985, 8,000 minors have disappeared.[35] A Special Unit was created to search for persons deemed as missing within the context of and due to the armed conflict.[48]
On August 30 2019 04:22 JimmiC wrote: I read over the Wiki which is pretty extensive and a few other writings on the FARC. Here is a little bit of a summary from it and the link for those who want more.
FARC - started out to try to take out the right wing groups that were both in the government and rightwing paramilitary groups that controlled the drugs
- They started a form of "taxing" all the drug trade in areas that they controlled and were "better" than the paramilitary drug cartels, ex when they caught some one breaking the rules they would force them out rather than kill them. Initially they were popular with the people in this area because they also forced the drug lords to pay better salaries and so on.
- Over time they became more involved until it just became them running it. They also did kidnappings and so on to raise money. This could be of military, police and government members and their families or just regular people. They would kill and torture if not paid. They also forced people to join at threat of violence.
-They had started to lose their popularity because of this but a water shed moment was when they killed 3 indigenous aid workers trying to build a school. This was not the only time they did this, but it was the most notable one and the one that hurt their image the most.
- By 2008 they were seen as terrorists by most of the people of Columbia and millions of Colombians came together to protest the FARC. Protest were held in 45 Colombian cities and towns, with an estimated 1.5 million people coming out in Bogotá alone. Solidarity rallies were held in some 200 cities worldwide including Berlin, Barcelona, London, Madrid, Toronto, Dubai, Miami, New York, Brisbane, and La Paz.
-in 2016 they singed peace treaties, a referendum failed but congress made some changes and ratified it.
-They created a peaceful actual political party called Common Alternative Revolution Force. Which won .5 % of the vote in the last elections in 2018 and 5 seats. (not very popular)
- about 2000-5000 remained with FARC and the drug trade.
I think you missed this critical part about FARC and ELN. They are the scum of earth and people like GH defending them because "the US, the CIA, Colombian assasins" or w/e he regularly parrots about is truly depicable.
According to a study by Colombia's National Centre for Historical Memory, 220,000 people have died in the conflict between 1958 and 2013, most of them civilians (177,307 civilians and 40,787 fighters) and more than five million civilians were forced from their homes between 1985 – 2012, generating the world's second largest population of internally displaced persons (IDPs).[32][45][46] 16.9% of the population in Colombia has been a direct victim of the war.[47] 2.3 million children have been displaced from their homes, and 45,000 children killed, according to national figures cited by Unicef. In total, one in three of the 7.6 million registered victims of the conflict are children, and since 1985, 8,000 minors have disappeared.[35] A Special Unit was created to search for persons deemed as missing within the context of and due to the armed conflict.[48]
At worst they all do those things and the CIA (you're supporting) is indisputably more devastating. As for your stats, they describe war not which side killed who.
Typically massive civilian casualties are a result of wanton state violence against oppressed peoples.
On August 30 2019 11:14 JimmiC wrote: Civilian casualties are inevitable in war. Some are obviously worse, FARC committed lots, rightwing paramilitary much much more, government less but still too many. Remember that "rightwing paramilitary" basically means drug lords and FARC really only became that directly recently.
The United Nations has estimated that 12% of all civilians deaths in the Colombian conflict were committed by FARC and National Liberation Army (ELN) guerrillas, with 80% committed by right-wing paramilitaries, and the remaining 8% committed by Colombian security forces.
So that is the drug dealers with the most by far and the FARC with 50% more than the government.
Considering their links to the government and the US;
The first paramilitary groups were organized by the Colombian military following recommendations made by U.S. military counterinsurgency advisers who were sent to Colombia during the Cold War to combat leftist political activists and armed guerrilla groups. The development of more modern paramilitary groups has also involved elite landowners, drug traffickers, members of the security forces, politicians and multinational corporations.
I wouldn't really distinguish them from the government or the CIA other than a very tenuous mask of plausible deniability.
More on their US corporate sponsors:
Lawyers from the U.S. Department of Justice learned of Chiquita's relationship with the AUC in 2003. They told Chiquita executives that the payments were illegal and ordered them to stop. After receiving the order, Chiquita made at least 19 more payments. Chiquita representatives said that they were only financing terrorist organizations "in good faith", for the protection of their employees. To date, none of the Chiquita executives have been indicted for terrorism, however the company did receive a fine of $25 million. The plea deal was negotiated by Eric Holder, who was then an attorney with the law firm Covington & Burling, which represented Chiquita Brands.
US congress member William Delahunt stated Chiquita Brands was only the "tip of the iceberg" in the financing of the AUC, after he met with paramilitary chiefs Salvatore Mancuso, Diego Fernando Murillo, Héctor Veloza and Rodrigo Tovar Pupo. Delahunt stressed: "I am concerned by the magnitude of the participation of the US companies."
Here is one of their more notorious incidents. The Mapiripán Massacre
On July 12, 1997, two planeloads of paramilitaries arrived at the airport of San José del Guaviare, which also served as a base for anti-narcotics police. The paramilitaries then traveled through territories where the Colombian National Army manned checkpoints.
On July 15, 1997, the paramilitaries arrived at Mapiripán. They used chainsaws and machetes to murder, behead, dismember, and disembowel a number of civilians. Because the bodies were thrown into a river, it is unknown exactly how many people died but the U.S. State Department claimed in 2003 that at least 30 civilians were killed.[3][4]
In proceedings before the Inter-American Court of Human Rights, the government of Colombia admitted that members of its military forces also played a role in the massacre, through omission.[5] General Jaime Uscátegui allegedly ordered local troops under his command to stay away from the area in which the murders were taking place until the paramilitaries finished the massacre and left.
On August 30 2019 13:05 JimmiC wrote: Yes the CIA has done a lot of shitty things, and was working with the drug lords, certain ones. As long as they were against commies because of tge fear of the USSR getting a greater foothold in SA. While the DEA was trying to stop the drugs.
Not only is there countless based on a true storey tv shows and movies, making it pretty common knowledge, but also in the Wikipedia article I linked. The stuff you always think is so biased is actually pretty balanced.
If you actually think the DEA was trying to stop drugs I'm not sure you've watched the right shows/movies? The drug war was/is a political repression tool in the US and South America.
From the wiki you posted:
In March 2015, it was revealed DEA agents were participating in drug cartel-funded sex parties with prostitutes.[198] Agents were provided with expensive gifts, weapons and money from drug cartel members.[199] The head of the US Drug Enforcement Administration, Michele Leonhart announced her retirement. Leonhart's tenure as DEA Administrator was marked with controversy and scandals including a prostitution scandal.
I don't see what your comment has to do with the point I'm making about the superficial delineation you made between right wing paramilitary groups, the Colombian government/military, and the US government/CIA when it comes to the violence in Colombia? Or where the bias thing is coming from?
I simply and briefly explained why I don't think it makes much sense superficially distinguish body counts between the paramilitary group that carried out the Mapiripán Massacre and the military (from which the groups members largely originate)/government that collaborated in it, for example.
On August 30 2019 04:22 JimmiC wrote: I read over the Wiki which is pretty extensive and a few other writings on the FARC. Here is a little bit of a summary from it and the link for those who want more.
FARC - started out to try to take out the right wing groups that were both in the government and rightwing paramilitary groups that controlled the drugs
- They started a form of "taxing" all the drug trade in areas that they controlled and were "better" than the paramilitary drug cartels, ex when they caught some one breaking the rules they would force them out rather than kill them. Initially they were popular with the people in this area because they also forced the drug lords to pay better salaries and so on.
- Over time they became more involved until it just became them running it. They also did kidnappings and so on to raise money. This could be of military, police and government members and their families or just regular people. They would kill and torture if not paid. They also forced people to join at threat of violence.
-They had started to lose their popularity because of this but a water shed moment was when they killed 3 indigenous aid workers trying to build a school. This was not the only time they did this, but it was the most notable one and the one that hurt their image the most.
- By 2008 they were seen as terrorists by most of the people of Columbia and millions of Colombians came together to protest the FARC. Protest were held in 45 Colombian cities and towns, with an estimated 1.5 million people coming out in Bogotá alone. Solidarity rallies were held in some 200 cities worldwide including Berlin, Barcelona, London, Madrid, Toronto, Dubai, Miami, New York, Brisbane, and La Paz.
-in 2016 they singed peace treaties, a referendum failed but congress made some changes and ratified it.
-They created a peaceful actual political party called Common Alternative Revolution Force. Which won .5 % of the vote in the last elections in 2018 and 5 seats. (not very popular)
- about 2000-5000 remained with FARC and the drug trade.
I think you missed this critical part about FARC and ELN. They are the scum of earth and people like GH defending them because "the US, the CIA, Colombian assasins" or w/e he regularly parrots about is truly depicable.
According to a study by Colombia's National Centre for Historical Memory, 220,000 people have died in the conflict between 1958 and 2013, most of them civilians (177,307 civilians and 40,787 fighters) and more than five million civilians were forced from their homes between 1985 – 2012, generating the world's second largest population of internally displaced persons (IDPs).[32][45][46] 16.9% of the population in Colombia has been a direct victim of the war.[47] 2.3 million children have been displaced from their homes, and 45,000 children killed, according to national figures cited by Unicef. In total, one in three of the 7.6 million registered victims of the conflict are children, and since 1985, 8,000 minors have disappeared.[35] A Special Unit was created to search for persons deemed as missing within the context of and due to the armed conflict.[48]
FARC is of course terrible organization, but You are missing the whole picture, from the wiki above: """ The United Nations has estimated that 12% of all civilians deaths in the Colombian conflict were committed by FARC and National Liberation Army (ELN) guerrillas, with 80% committed by right-wing paramilitaries, and the remaining 8% committed by Colombian security forces """ So AUC and the rest were/are far worse than FARC.
EPT
