EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 980
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
It's hard not to get frustrated reading it. If I was in Comey's shoes, I'd be furious at how much they wasted my time. Gowdy asks him if he had read those text messages between Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, he says outright that he has not, and then Gowdy proceeds to try and "gotcha" him with a bunch of questions about them anyway. Gowdy then does the exact same thing but with FBI documents Comey says he has never seen and doesn't know who produced them. Gowdy then asks him about topics still being investigated, and Comey along with the DOJ lawyer both say he cannot comment on because of the active investigation, but Gowdy presses Comey on them anyway over and over again. He then asks Comey if collusion is a crime, Comey says that it isn't a word used in law from what he knows, but conspiracy and aiding and abetting are. Naturally Gowdy finishes by saying collusion isn't a crime. I can't wait for Gowdy to be gone. Also, the Republicans are still are harping on about Hillary Clinton's email stuff. Still. Interestingly, the Democrats start off by asking for his reaction to Flynn's guilty plea in context to him being asked to stop the investigation into Flynn. They actually press Comey pretty hard on his decision to send the 16 committee leaders the letter announcing the reopening of the email thing. I'd be insulted if I was in Comey's shoes to be subpoenaed and then have this be the hearing. No wonder he required the transcript to be made public in order to have the hearing go on. They did exactly what he said they would: try and catch him on something that they could then leak to the press. | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
Small part: A delegation of Saudis close to the prince visited the United States as early as the month Mr. Trump was elected, the documents show, and brought back a report identifying Mr. Kushner as a crucial focal point in the courtship of the new administration. He brought to the job scant knowledge about the region, a transactional mind-set and an intense focus on reaching a deal with the Palestinians that met Israel’s demands, the delegation noted. Even then, before the inauguration, the Saudis were trying to position themselves as essential allies who could help the Trump administration fulfill its campaign pledges. In addition to offering to help resolve the dispute between Israel and the Palestinians, the Saudis offered hundreds of billions of dollars in deals to buy American weapons and invest in American infrastructure. Mr. Trump later announced versions of some of these items with great fanfare when he made his first foreign trip: to an Arab-Islamic summit in Riyadh, the Saudi capital. The Saudis had extended that invitation during the delegation’s November 2016 visit. “The inner circle is predominantly deal makers who lack familiarity with political customs and deep institutions, and they support Jared Kushner,” the Saudi delegation wrote of the incoming administration in a slide presentation obtained by the Lebanese newspaper Al Akhbar, which provided it to The Times. Several Americans who spoke with the delegation confirmed the slide presentation’s accounts of the discussions. The courtship of Mr. Kushner appears to have worked. Since the uproar over Mr. Khashoggi’s killing, the Trump administration has acknowledged only one conversation between Mr. Kushner and Prince Mohammed: an Oct. 10 telephone call joined by John R. Bolton, the national security adviser. The Americans “asked for more details and for the Saudi government to be transparent in the investigation process,” the White House said in a statement. But American officials and a Saudi briefed on their conversations said that Mr. Kushner and Prince Mohammed have continued to chat informally. According to the Saudi, Mr. Kushner has offered the crown prince advice about how to weather the storm, urging him to resolve his conflicts around the region and avoid further embarrassments. source | ||
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
On December 09 2018 10:40 TheTenthDoc wrote: Trump and gaslighting are tricky. Actual gaslighting (making someone doubt their own sanity through lies or actions) requires someone to trust you and for your lies to not be readily disprovable. If someone hides their spouse's car keys in the fridge and tells them they must have put them there, if they have a fridge cam the spouse isn't going to doubt their sanity-they're going to be pissed. Trump has burned the trust bridge unabashedly-he even admits to his followers he will lie to them-and he regularly lies about things that can be googled. Nobody who dislikes Trump reads his tweets and thinks "Surely he wouldn't lie about that." Now more than ever it feels like him trying to force people to pay attention to him and control the narrative, while getting a few people to clap for him. It's weird to call that gaslighting to me, but that may just be a new meaning of the world (which I think kind of devalues its real origins in domestic abuse, but whatever). They are still absolutely gaslighting the hell out of everyone. The whole "that's just locker room talk" was pure gaslighting at its finest. Trump was just joking, being one of the boys, don't take what he said literally. If you think this doesn't happen in locker rooms all around America, you probably haven't been in many because that behaviour is normal. The “I really don’t care, do u?” jacket and caravan bullshit are far more recent examples. The thing with Trump is that he always goes back to his greatest hits when he's in any amount of stress. The problem for him is that everyone sort of knows the game he's pulling at this point, to the point that they can guess what Fox and Friends content he's been viewing and his likely response to a NYT article. Being relatively unsuccessful because you're so predictable doesn't mean he's not still trying to gaslight the hell out of everyone. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On December 09 2018 12:19 Womwomwom wrote: They are still absolutely gaslighting the hell out of everyone. The whole "that's just locker room talk" was pure gaslighting at its finest. Trump was just joking, being one of the boys, don't take what he said literally. If you think this doesn't happen in locker rooms all around America, you probably haven't been in many because that behaviour is normal. The “I really don’t care, do u?” jacket and caravan bullshit are far more recent examples. The thing with Trump is that he always goes back to his greatest hits when he's in any amount of stress. The problem for him is that everyone sort of knows the game he's pulling at this point, to the point that they can guess what Fox and Friends content he's been viewing and his likely response to a NYT article. Being relatively unsuccessful because you're so predictable doesn't mean he's not still trying to gaslight the hell out of everyone. Usually those people don't become president. Nor are they married. I also can vouch for myself that i never tried to brag that i could sexually assault a woman np, or tried to fuck a married woman. There's also the slight problem that "gaslighting" in itself isn't something that fits into the sentence of "ugh, he's just gaslighting". If you dig a little, you'll figure out that all gaslighters have a few things in common - Bryant Welch has some interesting insight on that. I mean, i don't intend to be rude or personal here, but you're an example for what's wrong in the USA. Being content with that level of insanity, trying to play it down even, is simply stupid. In case you haven't noticed, Twitter isn't US exclusive. This was in news outlets all over europe. I mean, sure, you can't really do anything against it, and it's constantly new diarrhea running out of Trumps mouth/fingers, i get that. But this here: Trump is just gaslighting but I think everyone basically subconsciously knows he's doing this by now. That's why it really isn't shocking anymore, most people just automatically assume he's either really that dumb or lying to appease his base. "We just ignore it" doesn't cut it. And in fact, that'll lead to four more years of chaos. | ||
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Womwomwom
5930 Posts
Usually those people don't become president. Nor are they married. I also can vouch for myself that i never tried to brag that i could sexually assault a woman np, or tried to fuck a married woman. Not they normally don't become president. I think its proof that there's just a huge moral failing in the United States that enough people didn't care or didn't take it seriously. I mean, i don't intend to be rude or personal here, but you're an example for what's wrong in the USA. Being content with that level of insanity, trying to play it down even, is simply stupid. In case you haven't noticed, Twitter isn't US exclusive. This was in news outlets all over europe. I mean, sure, you can't really do anything against it, and it's constantly new diarrhea running out of Trumps mouth/fingers, i get that. But this here: No offense taken. I'm also not American. I think you're misunderstanding me a little here. The thing with Trump's gaslighting is that Sinclair and Fox News are running cover for him and the rest of the "mainstream" media often doing little to challenge whatever narrative the Republicans put out (see: AP's reporting on the whole caravan bullshit). Conservatives always moan about the mainstream media being liberal biased but the mainstream media is often more than willing to report on Trump's bullshit from the perspective of an upper middle class white individual. Which is to to report on the news as if all opinions are equally valid, the New York Times is the biggest offender with their most recent bullshit being their reporting on the valiant Republican effort to stop the Democratic governor from having any political power in Wisconsin. The good thing is that people are now more than ever aware of these problems with American media as well as Republicans/Trump gaslighting everyone to hell and back. While there's not much you can really do about the New York Times doing shitty reporting, people are at least trying to push back by reporting on New York Time's awful reporting and calling them out on social media. So when I say that it isn't shocking that Trump is gaslighting, I don't mean that we shouldn't take Trump's bullshit seriously. What I mean is that people are going to straight up assume that he's gaslighting and not speaking from a position of good faith. I don't think that's being dismissive or ignoring the issue, that's acknowledging the problem. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On December 09 2018 11:24 Ben... wrote: The transcript to James Comey's closed door hearing is available now at: judiciary.house.gov It's hard not to get frustrated reading it. If I was in Comey's shoes, I'd be furious at how much they wasted my time. Gowdy asks him if he had read those text messages between Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, he says outright that he has not, and then Gowdy proceeds to try and "gotcha" him with a bunch of questions about them anyway. Gowdy then does the exact same thing but with FBI documents Comey says he has never seen and doesn't know who produced them. Gowdy then asks him about topics still being investigated, and Comey along with the DOJ lawyer both say he cannot comment on because of the active investigation, but Gowdy presses Comey on them anyway over and over again. He then asks Comey if collusion is a crime, Comey says that it isn't a word used in law from what he knows, but conspiracy and aiding and abetting are. Naturally Gowdy finishes by saying collusion isn't a crime. I can't wait for Gowdy to be gone. Also, the Republicans are still are harping on about Hillary Clinton's email stuff. Still. Interestingly, the Democrats start off by asking for his reaction to Flynn's guilty plea in context to him being asked to stop the investigation into Flynn. They actually press Comey pretty hard on his decision to send the 16 committee leaders the letter announcing the reopening of the email thing. I'd be insulted if I was in Comey's shoes to be subpoenaed and then have this be the hearing. No wonder he required the transcript to be made public in order to have the hearing go on. They did exactly what he said they would: try and catch him on something that they could then leak to the press. Repost from the mega-blog: Some takeaways/random thoughts/attempts to entertain myself from the readthrough * It boggles my mind that we're still talking about text messages between a pair of lovers as if they're some sort of watergate-level evidence of government corruption. * This Gowdy guy sounds like a grade-A premium cut twat.Twats this twattish do not grow in the wild, they must be manufactured. * This Gaetz guy objects to being asked to be polite and not talk over other people on the grounds that the Constitution doesn't bind him to do that. Sure. Why not. * Comey openly says that the only reason he'd have removed from the investigation was to avoid the appearance of bias, while the questioners clearly think it's proof of actual bias. * Apparently James Comey doesn't know the meaning of the word 'insidious'. Faintly surprising. * Fun Fact: Asking someone for details about a document he's explicitly said he's never seen nor read will result in him saying not much of anything. * Republicans really desperately want Peter Strzok to be someone worth talking about. * Every other question seems to be about trying to twist Comey's words, written or spoken. I've never read so much fishing for a 'gotcha' moment outside of a passage in a novel about actual fishing. * Every other other question seems to be about twisting Strzok or Page's texts or taking them at face value, depending on which looks the most suspicious (and in all cases it's 'not very') * Republicans are stunned - outraged, even - that after a year investigating Hilary Comey had a feeling that they weren't going to find any charges to bring against her. Even while using that exact logic to say the Mueller investigation is a waste of time... * James Comey would like you to know he is not psychic and cannot time travel. * The Democrats want you to know that they care about the feelings of the FBI staff. * Comey admits under oath that humans have feelings, and that the FBI is staffed by humans. This might be the biggest revelation from the whole thing. * Now we're getting into nails-on-chalkboard levels of technicality about obstruction of justice. And a hail mary pass at getting Obama caught up in this web of brilliant oratory. * Holy fuck now they're debating the definition of lying. * Even Kelley is getting sick of Gowdy blathering * The warrant on Carter Page sounds like it might have been issued pre-emptively. So there's something. But wasn't that mostly known already? * Minor insight on the FBI verification process when it comes to outside information. Apparently they take all the sources and subsources and what not and essentially do what the original source did to see if they get the same results, and only if they do do they consider it fully verified. * It's weird that they keep calling him 'Director' Comey. Is that because he's being interviewed in relation to what he did as Director? * More futile grasping for... something. I've read pages of this and I'm not sure what this Meadows guy is digging for. Paraphrase: "Why would you act as if Jeff Sessions had recused himself when he had not?" - "Because it was a clear case for recusal and we'd been advised as such." - "But why would they tell you that?" - "B-Because it... was a clear case... for recusal?" - "BUT WHY THO???" * For those who want to keep the server thing alive, Comey testifies that the FBI experts advised him that though they found no evidence of intrusion, they probably wouldn't have even if they had intruded due to weaknesses in the server that could be exploited to cover their tracks. * By the end of his time Gowdy sounds like a man clawing at a piece of floating wood at sea. I'm not sure I can really advise anyone read the transcript unless you're one of those who really wants to know everything. There's nothing of substance going on in this one. even my somewhat mocking notes contain all the pertinent information you could want. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
Your description of Gowdy is apt, though that was known beforehand - if you think he's bad after you've read this, you should've watched the video of the other (first?) questioning (can't even remember where i saw it, C-SPAN?). Imagine what you've read, and put it into a doll. A smug cunt type of doll, that constantly acts as if he "gotcha". There you go. Gowdy. edit: you forgot to mention that his wife was relieved to hear that there's no evidence of Comey hugging and kissing a man. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On December 10 2018 01:26 m4ini wrote: I actually did read through the entire thing, top to bottom. Your description of Gowdy is apt, though that was known beforehand - if you think he's bad after you've read this, you should've watched the video of the other (first?) questioning (can't even remember where i saw it, C-SPAN?). Imagine what you've read, and put it into a doll. A smug cunt type of doll, that constantly acts as if he "gotcha". There you go. Gowdy. edit: you forgot to mention that his wife was relieved to hear that there's no evidence of Comey hugging and kissing a man. I think after a while I started to glaze reading his comments. I'm pretty sure Kelley did, too. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On December 10 2018 11:28 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: So Nick Ayers, Pence's chief of staff, who was supposed to replace Kelly for Trump, now resigned instead... job not looking the hottest right now Yeah I can imagine so. The job posting is probably something like: "Run errands for an angry orange senile manchild, get yelled at when something doesn't go his way, and if you keep the position long enough you just might go to prison for something he did or had you do," | ||
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
It is also good to hear that the Democrats are not considering impeachment at this point. The math in the senate is just not there and failing to remove Trump from office would not be good. | ||
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
Also, small note, Schiff is a Democrat Representative  | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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