EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 811
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On October 05 2018 23:56 On_Slaught wrote: Murkowski no is interesting since I assume if she would vote no here she will vote no this weekend. Collins says she will announce her vote tonight. While it 99% is yes, there is at least the question for now. Would be hilarious if Manchin ends up being the deciding yes vote. I do not think Manchin is willing to be the one to push it from 49-51 to 50-50. He might push it from 50-50 to 51-49, as he did today, and people who hate him on the left will cast it that way out of ignorance or malice, but his detractors on the left all dislike him regardless of what he does here so it's hard to argue that there's utility in a no when it's at 50-50. That said, you never really know. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
On October 06 2018 00:00 TheTenthDoc wrote: I do not think Manchin is willing to be the one to push it from 49-51 to 50-50. He might push it from 50-50 to 51-49, as he did today, and people who hate him on the left will cast it that way out of ignorance or malice, but his detractors on the left all dislike him regardless of what he does here so it's hard to argue that there's utility in a no when it's at 50-50. That said, you never really know. I would legitimately fear for Manchin's safety if he ended up being the deciding vote. | ||
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farvacola
United States18828 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On October 06 2018 00:00 TheTenthDoc wrote: I do not think Manchin is willing to be the one to push it from 49-51 to 50-50. He might push it from 50-50 to 51-49, as he did today, and people who hate him on the left will cast it that way out of ignorance or malice, but his detractors on the left all dislike him regardless of what he does here so it's hard to argue that there's utility in a no when it's at 50-50. That said, you never really know. There can't be a tie with only 99 senators voting so it shouldn't come down to that. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
murkowski's body language seems to suggest she might actually be a no vote, or she's truly unsure about this. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On October 06 2018 00:05 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: There can't be a tie with only 99 senators voting so it shouldn't come down to that. I'm skeptical McConnell won't pull a procedural way to get Montana's vote in out of his ass, whether by extending the window with another motion or some other chicanery. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On October 06 2018 00:02 Mohdoo wrote: I would legitimately fear for Manchin's safety if he ended up being the deciding vote. Id be more worried if he voted no. A man was just arrested in FL for saying online he was selling his house and getting his dogs taken care of because he was getting ready to drive to DC with his hollow points and kill as many people who voted against Kavanaugh as possible before being killed himself. He said he would wake up in the middle of the night thinking about killing Democrats because it was on his mind so often. I still think it's a matter of when, not if, that we see either a congressman or reporter shot/killed due to this climate. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 06 2018 00:02 Mohdoo wrote: I would legitimately fear for Manchin's safety if he ended up being the deciding vote. If he ends up being the deciding vote, I can’t see him having a relationship with the Democratic party going forward. They would have to write off west Virginia, but I can’t see how they could continue working with him. On October 06 2018 00:04 farvacola wrote: I don't think the cloture vote is a reliable set of tea leaves given that I think many in the senate, regardless of party, want this debacle over and done with. This is also true. Most nominees would be pulled if they didn’t have a 100% sure chance of being confirmed. But this is the era of Trump were we see bills die on the senate floor, so this is likely the only want to end the nomination fight. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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Mercy13
United States718 Posts
On October 05 2018 23:55 Mohdoo wrote: What is interesting to me is to see what happened to the GOP, happening now to democrats. Myself and many others who always tried to stay on the side of civility are basically all in agreement with "burn this shit to the ground as soon as the pendulum swings". I have absolutely no good will left. One thing I do credit the GOP for is recognizing that the civil war never actually ended. It has been in somewhat of a cold war this whole time, but it is a lot more obvious now. The right and left are legitimately enemies and trying to sidestep that isn't productive. Eat or be eaten. There is no real argument for collaboration or any of that shit at this point. We should always be doing absolutely anything (aside from violence) to fight the other side. It is hilarious to imagine what kind of victims the right are going to make themselves out to be when progressives overthrow establishment democrats, freshly energized by Trump, and show absolutely no mercy. This article from 2016 called "American Democracy is Doomed" seems prescient: America's constitutional democracy is going to collapse. Some day — not tomorrow, not next year, but probably sometime before runaway climate change forces us to seek a new life in outer-space colonies — there is going to be a collapse of the legal and political order and its replacement by something else. If we're lucky, it won't be violent. If we're very lucky, it will lead us to tackle the underlying problems and result in a better, more robust, political system. If we're less lucky, well, then, something worse will happen. Source I don't see another way out of this besides a collapse of the current form of government, and hoping that something better gets put in its place. I think it will happen the next time we have a major crisis, e.g. a financial collapse, a major terrorist attack, a party line vote on SCOTUS overruling voters to choose the president. Our republic is currently too fragile to survive any of those things, which ironically might be our only hope. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
On October 06 2018 00:18 Mercy13 wrote: This article from 2016 called "American Democracy is Doomed" seems prescient: Source I don't see another way out of this besides a collapse of the current form of government, and hoping that something better gets put in its place. I think it will happen the next time we have a major crisis, e.g. a financial collapse, a major terrorist attack, a party line vote on SCOTUS overruling voters to choose the president. Our republic is currently too fragile to survive any of those things, which ironically might be our only hope. Yeah, agreed. The big thing is that people on both sides are losing confidence in the legitimacy of institutions. After Kavanaugh, the left isn't going to accept "but the supreme court" as a valid argument. When the supreme court doesn't function as a "yes, but clearly my views are wrong because the supreme court disagrees with me", a lot of weird sociological stuff happens. Again, the left is going through the same thing the right went through under Obama. It is increasingly just a civil war that isn't governed by authoritative institutions. Even if the institutions have power right now, as public perception of courts and whatnot continue to deteriorate, we are increasingly going to be electing anti-court candidates who want to dismantle the supreme court. The political "end of days" is definitely in motion at this point. | ||
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
On October 05 2018 23:26 On_Slaught wrote: Basically he says his performance was born from frustration and we can trust him fair going forward. Basically it's the Dems fault for making him mad. Let us not forget his initial partisan rant was prepared before hand and not a spur of the moment thing. His rant was not in the prepared opening statement for his testimony. Source : I read it before, and heard it during. What he prepared was much softer, until he somehow broke loose around the middle, and only got back to it towards the end of his prepared statement. If it was "prepared", that would be at best earlier in his hearing day. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On October 06 2018 00:07 On_Slaught wrote: Id be more worried if he voted no. A man was just arrested in FL for saying online he was selling his house and getting his dogs taken care of because he was getting ready to drive to DC with his hollow points and kill as many people who voted against Kavanaugh as possible before being killed himself. He said he would wake up in the middle of the night thinking about killing Democrats because it was on his mind so often. I still think it's a matter of when, not if, that we see either a congressman or reporter shot/killed due to this climate. But remember, both sides are just as bad *finger wagging ensues* I don't see a way back, honestly, watching you all from the outside. A big part of why I got involved in the thread was because I wanted to see what modern US politics is doing to social discourse. There are absolutely two Americas now, and they bear no resemblance to one another, and neither side wants to live in the other's vision of it. I'd say for the most part the participants in this thread at least try to see it the other way, but it's obvious that you find it intolerable, and it's blatant that a good chunk of America has no interest whatsoever in even taking the first step and trying to see the other side as legitimate. Where is tere to go at that point? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On October 06 2018 00:39 Nouar wrote: His rant was not in the prepared opening statement for his testimony. Source : I read it before, and heard it during. What he prepared was much softer, until he somehow broke loose around the middle, and only got back to it towards the end of his prepared statement. If it was "prepared", that would be at best earlier in his hearing day. You're literally wrong. Pull up the CBS news video of his opening remarks. Starting at 7:00 he starts his rant about this being a political hit and a Clinton conspiracy to get him. A few lines later he drops his ominous "what goes around comes around" line. He is literally reading from a script, which he wrote in a rage the previous night, as he says the lines. Just because he wasnt screaming the lines, like he would be later, doesnt mean this wasnt his anger at Dems coming through. The whole thing read like an angry Republican manifesto. Ofc he also rants later during questioning too. | ||
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