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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21661 Posts
March 20 2018 18:51 GMT
#121
Trying to infer beliefs about the 'deep state' in a poll where 63% say they don't know what it is, is interesting.
I think i'll throw this into the 'garbage poll/result' category.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
March 20 2018 19:01 GMT
#122
it's no ta complete garbage poll, but it has a number of issues, and one definitely shoudln't infer too much from it.

and of course what people thought they were answering/meant can be rather different from what the questions actually said, or the person interpreting the results think they mean.

and on a minor nitpick: there wasn't a choice for unelected officials having not enough control.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 20 2018 19:01 GMT
#123
A year ago the term Deep State was mostly connected to people like Alex Jones and the worst sections of Breitbart conspiracy theories.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7886 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-20 19:04:09
March 20 2018 19:03 GMT
#124
On March 21 2018 03:05 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Amusingly, if you read the actual poll results, 63% were not familiar and 24% were somewhat familiar with the term Deep State before the pollster provided the definition for the follow-up question.

The other thing, of course, is that the wording of the specific question

+ Show Spoiler +
The term Deep State refers to the possible existence of a group of unelected government
and military officials who secretly manipulate or direct national policy. Do you think this type of
Deep State in the federal government definitely exists, probably exists, probably does not exist,
or definitely does not exist?
is pretty much strictly true if you miss the "secretly" part, and strictly true if you think the "secretly" only applies to the manipulation portion.

It also applies equally as much to an intelligence conspiracy as it does Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner pulling dear father's strings.

Kind of how to write a bad poll question 101.

I think you can really rewrite this poll as « are you conspiracy minded? » and you would obtain the exact same result. Maybe « do you understand nothing about how governments work but like shadowy stories because it makes you feel smart » would also score very well.

Bottom line is, if your poll shows that most respondants didn’t even know what you are talking about at the beginning of the questioning, you ain’t gonna get very meaningful data.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1352 Posts
March 20 2018 19:03 GMT
#125
I don't think anything will be done about data collection/mining and selling it,other then maybe symbolical.
Its a bit late now to come with laws for it as well,its been going on for a long time already. A large part of the value of many internet companys comes from exactly this data that allows personalized and targeted advertising,data collection is one of the main sources of their income and usa companys are leading in this. Seriously constricting data mining and selling would be a severe blow to the whole internet industry.
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1352 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-20 19:07:16
March 20 2018 19:06 GMT
#126
On March 21 2018 03:37 A3th3r wrote:
Russia does have elections but they do seem to be very "suspect" in nature. It seems a little fishy that Putin won again by such a wide margin - just seems unlikely I guess. They do hold elections, in any case

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-calls-putin-to-congratulate-russian-president-on-election-win-1521564314


Putin is very popular in rusia still and the result seems genuine to me. CNN had "breaking news" (just lol at the devaluation of that term over the past years) that trump did congratulate putin. But every foreign leader (Europes included) did congratulate putin. They are making every basic simple thing into something horrifc. It would be laughable if it was not for a whole generation growing up with this bs.
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-20 20:57:36
March 20 2018 19:07 GMT
#127
On March 20 2018 14:49 Danglars wrote:


We may be waiting a long time for just what made the FBI & career civil servants & Obama appointees want McCabe out.

I'm a little confused over this tweet.
McCabe's representation put out a statement saying that "The investigation described in the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) report was cleaved off from the larger investigation of which it was a part..." The larger investigation they are referring to would be the investigation into the FBI and DOJ over Hillary's e-mails, right?

That report was originally suspected as coming out in late March to early April, but is probably the one getting its date pushed back. They may not even be talking specifically about McCabe's report in that tweet.
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-20 19:18:58
March 20 2018 19:17 GMT
#128
On March 21 2018 04:03 pmh wrote:
I don't think anything will be done about data collection/mining and selling it,other then maybe symbolical.
Its a bit late now to come with laws for it as well,its been going on for a long time already. A large part of the value of many internet companys comes from exactly this data that allows personalized and targeted advertising,data collection is one of the main sources of their income and usa companys are leading in this. Seriously constricting data mining and selling would be a severe blow to the whole internet industry.

They could use some constricting and blows to their profits, IMO. These companies seem to think they are untouchable and are not encumbered by laws or responsibility for their platforms. They also receive blanket liability protection due to a 20 year old law from the dial up era of the internet. These companies need to feel the fear of government oversight through some regulation.

On March 21 2018 04:06 pmh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2018 03:37 A3th3r wrote:
Russia does have elections but they do seem to be very "suspect" in nature. It seems a little fishy that Putin won again by such a wide margin - just seems unlikely I guess. They do hold elections, in any case

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-calls-putin-to-congratulate-russian-president-on-election-win-1521564314


Putin is very popular in rusia still and the result seems genuine to me. CNN had "breaking news" (just lol at the devaluation of that term over the past years) that trump did congratulate putin. But every foreign leader (Europes included) did congratulate putin. They are making every basic simple thing into something horrifc. It would be laughable if it was not for a whole generation growing up with this bs.

I question any polling about a dictator’s popularity, since they oppress anyone who resist them.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
March 20 2018 19:29 GMT
#129
On March 21 2018 04:17 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2018 04:03 pmh wrote:
I don't think anything will be done about data collection/mining and selling it,other then maybe symbolical.
Its a bit late now to come with laws for it as well,its been going on for a long time already. A large part of the value of many internet companys comes from exactly this data that allows personalized and targeted advertising,data collection is one of the main sources of their income and usa companys are leading in this. Seriously constricting data mining and selling would be a severe blow to the whole internet industry.

They could use some constricting and blows to their profits, IMO. These companies seem to think they are untouchable and are not encumbered by laws or responsibility for their platforms. They also receive blanket liability protection due to a 20 year old law from the dial up era of the internet. These companies need to feel the fear of government oversight through some regulation.

Show nested quote +
On March 21 2018 04:06 pmh wrote:
On March 21 2018 03:37 A3th3r wrote:
Russia does have elections but they do seem to be very "suspect" in nature. It seems a little fishy that Putin won again by such a wide margin - just seems unlikely I guess. They do hold elections, in any case

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-calls-putin-to-congratulate-russian-president-on-election-win-1521564314


Putin is very popular in rusia still and the result seems genuine to me. CNN had "breaking news" (just lol at the devaluation of that term over the past years) that trump did congratulate putin. But every foreign leader (Europes included) did congratulate putin. They are making every basic simple thing into something horrifc. It would be laughable if it was not for a whole generation growing up with this bs.

I question any polling about a dictator’s popularity, since they oppress anyone who resist them.

Considering how many opposition have committed suicide via bullets to the back of the head, it really isn't surprising that Putin gets a big election win.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3188 Posts
March 20 2018 19:45 GMT
#130
My sister who works at state department was joking she wants to get a shirt that says "I am the Deep State." I'm quite confident she has never leaked confidential information or engaged in any illicit efforts to undermine the elected government. On the other hand, a lot of her work is confidential and she definitely plays a role in implementing national (especially foreign) policy.

If asked that question, I think I'd have to answer that yes, I do think there are a bunch of unelected officials, both military and civilian, that have a lot of influence on national policy. I don't think they're, like, a secret society or cabal, but that's not what the question asked.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-20 19:50:03
March 20 2018 19:47 GMT
#131




These tapes are going to be the gift that keeps on giving. I am so happy this is all being linked back to Mercer and Bannon. Also there are other reports that Cambridge Analytica secretly filmed discussions between Trump’s campaign and outside groups. I cannot wait to find out how much Trump’s crew new about this company was operating.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-20 20:21:58
March 20 2018 20:21 GMT
#132
It kinda makes you wonder if CA just hired a bunch of Russian farms to boost messaging which seems a lot more straightforward than some Russian government plot and probably pretty cost effective compared to getting Americans to do it.
Logo
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
March 20 2018 20:35 GMT
#133
On March 21 2018 05:21 Logo wrote:
It kinda makes you wonder if CA just hired a bunch of Russian farms to boost messaging which seems a lot more straightforward than some Russian government plot and probably pretty cost effective compared to getting Americans to do it.

That's been theory for some time if I recall. CA, Mercer, Russian Oligarchs etc., just being general greedy assholes. I'm sure Putin knew what was going down but likely wasn't any sort of state sanctioned effort.
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 20 2018 20:44 GMT
#134
On March 21 2018 04:07 Tachion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2018 14:49 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/byronyork/status/975911132392247296

We may be waiting a long time for just what made the FBI & career civil servants & Obama appointees want McCabe out.

I'm a little confused over this tweet.
McCabe's representation put out a statement saying that "The investigation described in the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) report was cleaved off from the larger investigation of which it was a part..." The larger investigation they are referring to would be the investigation into the FBI and DOJ over Hillary's e-mails, right?

That report was originally suspected as coming out in late March to early April, but is probably the one getting it's date pushed back. They may not even be talking specifically about McCabe's report in that tweet.

The much-awaited report referred to is the one that Sessions states was the reason the FBI’s office of personal responsibility recommended the firing of McCabe. The hearsay may be right or wrong, but that’s the subject of the tweet.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
March 20 2018 20:48 GMT
#135
--- Nuked ---
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 20 2018 20:51 GMT
#136
It’s been a big year for free speech at the Supreme Court. Two of the most high-profile cases argued before the court so far have revolved around free speech rights, four other cases on the docket this term involve free speech questions, and yet another case where the issue is paramount greets the court on Tuesday.

The court today is hearing arguments on whether the state of California is trampling on the free speech rights of crisis pregnancy centers — nonprofit organizations that do not perform abortions and encourage women to seek alternatives to the procedure — by requiring them to post notices explaining patients’ ability to access abortion and other medical services. In December, attorneys for a baker at Masterpiece Cakeshop in Colorado argued that a state anti-discrimination law violates his free speech rights as a self-described cake artist by requiring him to make a wedding cake for a gay couple. Last month, the justices heard oral arguments in a case about whether state laws allowing unions to require nonmembers to pay fees violate those employees’ right to free speech.

Whichever way the rulings come down this spring and summer, it’s almost certain that the winning side will include Chief Justice John Roberts, who has spent his 12-plus years at the helm of the high court quietly carving out a space as a prolific and decisive arbiter of free speech law. Supporters and critics both agree that during his tenure, the court has dramatically expanded the reach of the First Amendment by striking down a wide range of statutes for encroaching on free speech rights. And Roberts has authored more majority opinions on free speech than any other justice during his tenure, signaling that this is an area where he wants to create a legacy.

But just what that legacy will be is highly contested. Roberts’s admirers argue that his commitment to the First Amendment transcends ideological boundaries. But others contend that his decisions don’t protect speech across the board. Instead, they say that Roberts is more than willing to allow the government to restrict speech when it’s speech he disagrees with — meaning free speech is becoming a legal tool that favors corporations over individuals.

538

The Supreme Court heard oral argument today in National Institute of Family and Life Advocates v. Becerra, a highly anticipated case that combines two often controversial topics: the First Amendment and abortion. The question before the justices today was whether a California law that directs “crisis pregnancy centers” to provide their patients with specific kinds of information – including, for some, the availability of low-cost or free abortions – violates the First Amendment’s free speech clause. After roughly an hour of oral argument, the law appeared to be in some jeopardy, not only among the court’s more conservative justices but also perhaps at least with Justice Elena Kagan, one of the more liberal justices.

The law at issue is the Reproductive Freedom, Accountability, Comprehensive Care, and Transparency Act, also known as the Reproductive FACT Act. The California legislature passed the law because it was worried that crisis pregnancy centers – nonprofit organizations, often affiliated with Christian groups, that are opposed to abortion – were posing as full-service reproductive health clinics and providing pregnant women with inaccurate or misleading information about their options. The act requires nonprofits that are licensed to provide medical services (such as pregnancy tests and ultrasound examinations) to post notices to inform their patients that free or low-cost abortions are available, while centers without such licenses – which try to support pregnant women by supplying them with diapers and formula, for example – must include disclaimers in their advertisements to make clear, in up to 13 languages, that their services do not include medical help. [...]

Justice Anthony Kennedy also expressed doubts about the law. In one question that may prove to be pivotal in the case, he asked Farris what would happen if an unlicensed clinic wanted to put up a billboard that said only, in large letters, “Choose Life.” Would that message trigger the law’s notice requirement?

Farris responded that the billboard would indeed have to disclose that the nonprofit does not provide medical services – a point with which Klein seemed to agree.

Scotusblog
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-20 20:53:26
March 20 2018 20:53 GMT
#137
Facebook is launching the beginnings of a charm offensive in Washington as controversy builds over revelations that the social network's user data was improperly accessed by Trump-affiliated firm Cambridge Analytica.

The company said it's sending staffers to brief a half dozen of Capitol Hill's most powerful committees this week, including the Intelligence, Commerce and Judiciary panels in both chambers. But the briefings may not be enough to satisfy the growing number of lawmakers who want Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg or Chief Operating Officer Sheryl Sandberg to testify on the Hill.

"I want to know why this happened, and what’s the extent of the damage, and how they’re going to fix it moving forward," Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) said Tuesday when asked about the briefings. Facebook executives, she added, "aren’t coming yet, but they better come."

"Eventually, Mark Zuckerberg needs to testify — he needs to be subpoenaed if he won’t do it voluntarily," said Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) "They can begin with some staff people, but it’s only the beginning."

acebook is confronting a firestorm of criticism for failing to prevent Cambridge Analytica from allegedly compiling and keeping a cache of data drawn from the social media profiles of some 50 million Americans. The social network has already faced months of blowback over fake news and Russian election meddling on its platform — and is struggling to contain the fallout in Washington.

The company's problems appeared to deepen Monday after reports that its chief information security officer, Alex Stamos, will leave the company over internal conflicts about its approach to curbing Russian misinformation. (Both Facebook and Stamos said he remains engaged with his work but did not directly address the question of his departure.)

Much of the outrage is coming from Democrats, while key Republicans are mulling over how much they want to make an issue of the Facebook flap. Asked Tuesday if he intends to summon Zuckerberg, Senate Commerce Chairman John Thune (R-S.D.) said, "We'll see."

"We’ve got a questionnaire they’re responding to and then a staff briefing and then we’ll make a decision based on that. But I would say it’s not outside the realm of possibility," Thune said.

Over in the House, Christopher Wylie, the whistleblower who detailed Cambridge Analytica's alleged misuse of the Facebook data, will meet with House Intel Democrats to discuss the situation, his attorney, Tamsin Allen, confirmed Tuesday. The panel's ranking member, Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), had invited Wylie to brief Democrats earlier this week.

As Facebook's congressional outreach ramps up, the company is getting hit on another front in Washington: a new inquiry by the Federal Trade Commission. The agency plans to send the company a series of questions about the Cambridge Analytica issue, according to a source familiar with the matter.

Under a 2011 consent decree with the FTC, Facebook agreed to get express permission and notify users before sharing their data with third parties. The social network could face massive fines if the FTC determines it violated the terms of the agreement.

The agency declined to comment on whether it's investigating, but said, "We take any allegations of violations of our consent decrees very seriously as we did in 2012 in a privacy case involving Google.”

Cambridge Analytica, which did voter analysis work for the Trump campaign, obtained the Facebook account information from academic Aleksandr Kogan, who in 2014 developed an app that harvested Facebook data for research. Facebook has suspended both Cambridge Analytica and Kogan as it looks into the firm's receipt, use and retention of the data.

“We remain strongly committed to protecting people’s information. We appreciate the opportunity to answer questions the FTC may have," Rob Sherman, Facebook's deputy chief privacy officer, said in a statement.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-20 20:55:50
March 20 2018 20:54 GMT
#138
My Russian colleague is of the opinion that there is no free media in the country and that's one of the reasons why Putin can easily re-elect himself. No opposition can form if you control what the populace hears.

Oh and he's got family there and regularly returns. So he's not some rage driven exile.
passive quaranstream fan
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21661 Posts
March 20 2018 20:58 GMT
#139
How does requiring pregnant women to be informed of all the medical options available to them violate the first amendment?
How does forcing non medical facilities to clear state that they are not medical facilities violate the first amendment?

This reads completely crazy, is misinformation patients about medical options protected by the right to free speech? Oo.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Nouar
Profile Joined May 2009
France3270 Posts
March 20 2018 21:05 GMT
#140
On March 21 2018 05:58 Gorsameth wrote:
How does requiring pregnant women to be informed of all the medical options available to them violate the first amendment?
How does forcing non medical facilities to clear state that they are not medical facilities violate the first amendment?

This reads completely crazy, is misinformation patients about medical options protected by the right to free speech? Oo.

Ah, it's a pain trying to understand how the US reads "free speech". They want the freedom to NOT be forced to disclose information they oppose.
That baker for example doesn't want to be forced to express his baking "art" for a same-sex marriage, which he opposes. These clinics, being absolutely against abortion, don't want to be compelled to disclose ways contrary to their beliefs.

I already find it pretty sad that they had to put up a law for a "medical center" to provide medical information...
NoiR
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