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of course roofing paid better ...
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This was in the 1960s, so it’s not like the average high school student was unfamiliar with physical labor. But they still hated the job. The conditions were very bad and the pay wasn’t worth it.
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On August 24 2018 05:13 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2018 04:04 Sermokala wrote:On August 24 2018 03:53 IgnE wrote:On August 24 2018 02:29 Plansix wrote:When The U.S. Government Tried To Replace Migrant Farmworkers With High Schoolers
Randy Carter is a member of the Director's Guild of America and has notched some significant credits during his Hollywood career. Administrative assistant on The Conversation. Part of the casting department for Apocalypse Now. Longtime first assistant director on Seinfeld. Work on The Blues Brothers, The Godfather II and more.
But the one project that Carter regrets never working on is a script he wrote that got optioned twice but was never produced. It's about the summer a then-17-year-old Carter and thousands of American teenage boys heeded the call of the federal government ... to work on farms.
The year was 1965. On Cinco de Mayo, newspapers across the country reported that Secretary of Labor W. Willard Wirtz wanted to recruit 20,000 high schoolers to replace the hundreds of thousands of Mexican agricultural workers who had labored in the United States under the so-called Bracero Program. Started in World War II, the program was an agreement between the American and Mexican governments that brought Mexican men to pick harvests across the U.S. It ended in 1964, after years of accusations by civil rights activists like Cesar Chavez that migrants suffered wage theft and terrible working and living conditions.
But farmers complained — in words that echo today's headlines — that Mexican laborers did the jobs that Americans didn't want to do, and that the end of the Bracero Program meant that crops would rot in the fields.
Wirtz cited this labor shortage and a lack of summer jobs for high schoolers as reason enough for the program. But he didn't want just any band geek or nerd — he wanted jocks.
"They can do the work," Wirtz said at a press conference in Washington, D.C., announcing the creation of the project, called A-TEAM — Athletes in Temporary Employment as Agricultural Manpower. "They are entitled to a chance at it." Standing besides him to lend gravitas were future Baseball Hall of Famers Stan Musial and Warren Spahn and future Pro Football Hall of Famer Jim Brown.
Over the ensuing weeks, the Department of Labor, the Department of Agriculture, and the President's Council on Physical Fitness bought ads on radio and in magazines to try to lure lettermen. "Farm Work Builds Men!" screamed one such promotion, which featured 1964 Heisman Trophy winner John Huarte.
Local newspapers across the country showcased their local A-TEAM with pride as they left for the summer. The Courier of Waterloo, Iowa, for instance, ran a photo of beaming, bespectacled but scrawny boys boarding a bus for Salinas, where strawberries and asparagus awaited their smooth hands. "A teacher-coach from [the nearby town of] Cresco will serve as adviser to all 31," students, the Courier reassured its readers.
But the national press was immediately skeptical. "Dealing with crops which grow close to the ground requires a good deal stronger motive" than money or the prospects of a good workout, argued a Detroit Free Press editorial. "Like, for instance, gnawing hunger."
Despite such skepticism, Wirtz's scheme seemed to work at first: About 18,100 teenagers signed up to join the A-TEAM. But only about 3,300 of them ever got to pick crops.
One of them was Carter.
He was a junior at the now-closed University of San Diego High School, an all-boys Catholic school in Southern California. About 25 of his classmates decided to sign up for the A-TEAM because, as he recalls with a laugh more than 50 years later, "We thought, 'I'm not doing anything else this summer, so why not?' "
Funny enough, Carter says none of the recruits from his school — himself included — were actually athletes: "The football coach told [the sportsters], 'You're not going. We've got two-a-day practices — you're not going to go pick strawberries."
Students from across the country began showing up on farms in Texas and California at the beginning of June. Carter and his classmates were assigned to pick cantaloupes near Blythe, a small town on the Colorado River in the middle of California's Colorado Desert.
He remembers the first day vividly. Work started before dawn, the better to avoid the unforgiving desert sun to come. "The wind is in your hair, and you don't think it's bad," Carter says. "Then you go out in the field, and the first ray of sun comes over the horizon. The first ray. Everyone looked at each other, and said, 'What did we do?' The thermometer went up like in a Bugs Bunny cartoon. By 9 a.m., it was 110 degrees."
Garden gloves that the farmers gave the students to help them harvest lasted only four hours, because the cantaloupe's fine hairs made grabbing them feel like "picking up sandpaper." They got paid minimum wage — $1.40 an hour back then — plus 5 cents for every crate filled with about 30 to 36 fruits. Breakfast was "out of the Navy," Carter says — beans and eggs and bologna sandwiches that literally toasted in the heat, even in the shade.
The University High crew worked six days a week, with Sundays off, and they were not allowed to return home during their stint. The farmers sheltered them in "any kind of defunct housing," according to Carter — old Army barracks, rooms made from discarded wood, and even buildings used to intern Japanese-Americans during World War II. SourceNPR has posted a fascinating article an effort to replace Mexican migrant workers with high school students and the 1960s. Of course, it ends with a lot of the high school students finishing the program out of spite and pride. But it sort of hammers home the problem with farm labor. People do not want to pay a lot for food, which drives down the wages for farm work. And no one is willing to work the farms except migrants who can turn the US dollar into might higher earnings in their country. We have been kicking this can down the road for 60 years at this point. i would rather have picked fruit than worked at a cash register for near minimum wage like i did in my high school days high schoolers dont have jobs anymore. it might be a good idea What no jesus christ did you read that article? 110F weather for hours and hours of day labor 6 days a week while your hands slowly turn into carved wood? Where you have to live in dilapidated shacks and eat shitty food instead of standing in an air conditioned room where you do simple remedial tasks? What and how did you come to the conclusion that this would be preferable? yeah i read the article. a little hard work and deprivation sharpens the mind while standing at a cash register for a long shift just leads to mental torpor its just for a summer. not a lifelong career. kind of like how id rather have spent the summers doing roofing than retail
Ah, the "Calvin's dad" (sorta) justification. I like it.
Though aren't we ignoring the possible quality of work issue? To my knowledge a lot of field work takes time to get good at. I'm not sure a lot of farmers will be happy if a bunch of kids who dont give a shit and are super slow/sloppy are forced on them.
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Giuliani just told Manafort that he is getting a pardon after the investigation is over. Cutting through the bullshit, this whole exchange and behavior by the White House is staggering. As things heat up, Trump and this lawyers signaling to witness that a pardon could happen when after the investigation concludes.
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So, in this thread we have 100 F or -20 C for a 5 min walk is unbearable. Take a car instead.
Hours at 110 F or -30 C at a back breaking job minimum wage job, with defunct housing, can't return home, for minimum wage: a nice job if you can get it.
Ok, to be fair, it's not the same persons but you got to laugh.
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Some attorneys have argued that a pardon itself would be obstruction of justice. A more novel argument I saw was that pardoning Manafort to prevent him from flipping could be considered a form of witness tampering. I dont expect a Manafort pardon but these sorts of arguments would be common if he was. Though just today Trump said flipping, if it were up to him, would be illegal. So who knows if he thinks it's worth the hassle and blowback.
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On August 24 2018 05:52 Dangermousecatdog wrote: So, in this thread we have 100 F or -20 C for a 5 min walk is unbearable. Take a car instead.
Hours at 110 F or -30 C at a back breaking job minimum wage job, with defunct housing, can't return home, for minimum wage: a nice job if you can get it.
Ok, to be fair, it's not the same persons but you got to laugh. I guess; but people having wildly divergent opinions seems more like something to just expect. but we'll take the lols where we can get em.
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On August 24 2018 05:54 On_Slaught wrote: Some attorneys have argued that a pardon itself would be obstruction of justice. A more novel argument I saw was that pardoning Manafort to prevent him from flipping could be considered a form of witness tampering. I dont expect a Manafort pardon but these sorts of arguments would be common if he was. Though just today Trump said flipping, if it were up to him, would be illegal. So who knows if he thinks it's worth the hassle and blowback. I read Obama said in private that a Trump presidency would be a test to the resilience of american institutions. I think we are here, and if they survive this shitstorm intact, well, hats off to the founding fathers.
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On August 24 2018 03:53 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2018 02:29 Plansix wrote:When The U.S. Government Tried To Replace Migrant Farmworkers With High Schoolers
Randy Carter is a member of the Director's Guild of America and has notched some significant credits during his Hollywood career. Administrative assistant on The Conversation. Part of the casting department for Apocalypse Now. Longtime first assistant director on Seinfeld. Work on The Blues Brothers, The Godfather II and more.
But the one project that Carter regrets never working on is a script he wrote that got optioned twice but was never produced. It's about the summer a then-17-year-old Carter and thousands of American teenage boys heeded the call of the federal government ... to work on farms.
The year was 1965. On Cinco de Mayo, newspapers across the country reported that Secretary of Labor W. Willard Wirtz wanted to recruit 20,000 high schoolers to replace the hundreds of thousands of Mexican agricultural workers who had labored in the United States under the so-called Bracero Program. Started in World War II, the program was an agreement between the American and Mexican governments that brought Mexican men to pick harvests across the U.S. It ended in 1964, after years of accusations by civil rights activists like Cesar Chavez that migrants suffered wage theft and terrible working and living conditions.
But farmers complained — in words that echo today's headlines — that Mexican laborers did the jobs that Americans didn't want to do, and that the end of the Bracero Program meant that crops would rot in the fields.
Wirtz cited this labor shortage and a lack of summer jobs for high schoolers as reason enough for the program. But he didn't want just any band geek or nerd — he wanted jocks.
"They can do the work," Wirtz said at a press conference in Washington, D.C., announcing the creation of the project, called A-TEAM — Athletes in Temporary Employment as Agricultural Manpower. "They are entitled to a chance at it." Standing besides him to lend gravitas were future Baseball Hall of Famers Stan Musial and Warren Spahn and future Pro Football Hall of Famer Jim Brown.
Over the ensuing weeks, the Department of Labor, the Department of Agriculture, and the President's Council on Physical Fitness bought ads on radio and in magazines to try to lure lettermen. "Farm Work Builds Men!" screamed one such promotion, which featured 1964 Heisman Trophy winner John Huarte.
Local newspapers across the country showcased their local A-TEAM with pride as they left for the summer. The Courier of Waterloo, Iowa, for instance, ran a photo of beaming, bespectacled but scrawny boys boarding a bus for Salinas, where strawberries and asparagus awaited their smooth hands. "A teacher-coach from [the nearby town of] Cresco will serve as adviser to all 31," students, the Courier reassured its readers.
But the national press was immediately skeptical. "Dealing with crops which grow close to the ground requires a good deal stronger motive" than money or the prospects of a good workout, argued a Detroit Free Press editorial. "Like, for instance, gnawing hunger."
Despite such skepticism, Wirtz's scheme seemed to work at first: About 18,100 teenagers signed up to join the A-TEAM. But only about 3,300 of them ever got to pick crops.
One of them was Carter.
He was a junior at the now-closed University of San Diego High School, an all-boys Catholic school in Southern California. About 25 of his classmates decided to sign up for the A-TEAM because, as he recalls with a laugh more than 50 years later, "We thought, 'I'm not doing anything else this summer, so why not?' "
Funny enough, Carter says none of the recruits from his school — himself included — were actually athletes: "The football coach told [the sportsters], 'You're not going. We've got two-a-day practices — you're not going to go pick strawberries."
Students from across the country began showing up on farms in Texas and California at the beginning of June. Carter and his classmates were assigned to pick cantaloupes near Blythe, a small town on the Colorado River in the middle of California's Colorado Desert.
He remembers the first day vividly. Work started before dawn, the better to avoid the unforgiving desert sun to come. "The wind is in your hair, and you don't think it's bad," Carter says. "Then you go out in the field, and the first ray of sun comes over the horizon. The first ray. Everyone looked at each other, and said, 'What did we do?' The thermometer went up like in a Bugs Bunny cartoon. By 9 a.m., it was 110 degrees."
Garden gloves that the farmers gave the students to help them harvest lasted only four hours, because the cantaloupe's fine hairs made grabbing them feel like "picking up sandpaper." They got paid minimum wage — $1.40 an hour back then — plus 5 cents for every crate filled with about 30 to 36 fruits. Breakfast was "out of the Navy," Carter says — beans and eggs and bologna sandwiches that literally toasted in the heat, even in the shade.
The University High crew worked six days a week, with Sundays off, and they were not allowed to return home during their stint. The farmers sheltered them in "any kind of defunct housing," according to Carter — old Army barracks, rooms made from discarded wood, and even buildings used to intern Japanese-Americans during World War II. SourceNPR has posted a fascinating article an effort to replace Mexican migrant workers with high school students and the 1960s. Of course, it ends with a lot of the high school students finishing the program out of spite and pride. But it sort of hammers home the problem with farm labor. People do not want to pay a lot for food, which drives down the wages for farm work. And no one is willing to work the farms except migrants who can turn the US dollar into might higher earnings in their country. We have been kicking this can down the road for 60 years at this point. i would rather have picked fruit than worked at a cash register for near minimum wage like i did in my high school days high schoolers dont have jobs anymore. it might be a good idea I would have preferred a cash register to my job cutting flowers and hanging them in a sorting machine. In fact, as a uni student I worked in a shop. Wasn't supermarket cash register, but was far from skilled labor, and far far preferable to the flower business.
Sorting roses, together with mixing agar agar for an industrial supplier are by far the worst jobs I've had. And that includes order picking at a pharmaceutical wholesaler and restocking in a supermarket. Both also pretty shitty, but not as bad as the roses. And the rose business was better paid. That's the main reason I kept at it.
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On August 24 2018 06:41 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2018 03:53 IgnE wrote:On August 24 2018 02:29 Plansix wrote:When The U.S. Government Tried To Replace Migrant Farmworkers With High Schoolers
Randy Carter is a member of the Director's Guild of America and has notched some significant credits during his Hollywood career. Administrative assistant on The Conversation. Part of the casting department for Apocalypse Now. Longtime first assistant director on Seinfeld. Work on The Blues Brothers, The Godfather II and more.
But the one project that Carter regrets never working on is a script he wrote that got optioned twice but was never produced. It's about the summer a then-17-year-old Carter and thousands of American teenage boys heeded the call of the federal government ... to work on farms.
The year was 1965. On Cinco de Mayo, newspapers across the country reported that Secretary of Labor W. Willard Wirtz wanted to recruit 20,000 high schoolers to replace the hundreds of thousands of Mexican agricultural workers who had labored in the United States under the so-called Bracero Program. Started in World War II, the program was an agreement between the American and Mexican governments that brought Mexican men to pick harvests across the U.S. It ended in 1964, after years of accusations by civil rights activists like Cesar Chavez that migrants suffered wage theft and terrible working and living conditions.
But farmers complained — in words that echo today's headlines — that Mexican laborers did the jobs that Americans didn't want to do, and that the end of the Bracero Program meant that crops would rot in the fields.
Wirtz cited this labor shortage and a lack of summer jobs for high schoolers as reason enough for the program. But he didn't want just any band geek or nerd — he wanted jocks.
"They can do the work," Wirtz said at a press conference in Washington, D.C., announcing the creation of the project, called A-TEAM — Athletes in Temporary Employment as Agricultural Manpower. "They are entitled to a chance at it." Standing besides him to lend gravitas were future Baseball Hall of Famers Stan Musial and Warren Spahn and future Pro Football Hall of Famer Jim Brown.
Over the ensuing weeks, the Department of Labor, the Department of Agriculture, and the President's Council on Physical Fitness bought ads on radio and in magazines to try to lure lettermen. "Farm Work Builds Men!" screamed one such promotion, which featured 1964 Heisman Trophy winner John Huarte.
Local newspapers across the country showcased their local A-TEAM with pride as they left for the summer. The Courier of Waterloo, Iowa, for instance, ran a photo of beaming, bespectacled but scrawny boys boarding a bus for Salinas, where strawberries and asparagus awaited their smooth hands. "A teacher-coach from [the nearby town of] Cresco will serve as adviser to all 31," students, the Courier reassured its readers.
But the national press was immediately skeptical. "Dealing with crops which grow close to the ground requires a good deal stronger motive" than money or the prospects of a good workout, argued a Detroit Free Press editorial. "Like, for instance, gnawing hunger."
Despite such skepticism, Wirtz's scheme seemed to work at first: About 18,100 teenagers signed up to join the A-TEAM. But only about 3,300 of them ever got to pick crops.
One of them was Carter.
He was a junior at the now-closed University of San Diego High School, an all-boys Catholic school in Southern California. About 25 of his classmates decided to sign up for the A-TEAM because, as he recalls with a laugh more than 50 years later, "We thought, 'I'm not doing anything else this summer, so why not?' "
Funny enough, Carter says none of the recruits from his school — himself included — were actually athletes: "The football coach told [the sportsters], 'You're not going. We've got two-a-day practices — you're not going to go pick strawberries."
Students from across the country began showing up on farms in Texas and California at the beginning of June. Carter and his classmates were assigned to pick cantaloupes near Blythe, a small town on the Colorado River in the middle of California's Colorado Desert.
He remembers the first day vividly. Work started before dawn, the better to avoid the unforgiving desert sun to come. "The wind is in your hair, and you don't think it's bad," Carter says. "Then you go out in the field, and the first ray of sun comes over the horizon. The first ray. Everyone looked at each other, and said, 'What did we do?' The thermometer went up like in a Bugs Bunny cartoon. By 9 a.m., it was 110 degrees."
Garden gloves that the farmers gave the students to help them harvest lasted only four hours, because the cantaloupe's fine hairs made grabbing them feel like "picking up sandpaper." They got paid minimum wage — $1.40 an hour back then — plus 5 cents for every crate filled with about 30 to 36 fruits. Breakfast was "out of the Navy," Carter says — beans and eggs and bologna sandwiches that literally toasted in the heat, even in the shade.
The University High crew worked six days a week, with Sundays off, and they were not allowed to return home during their stint. The farmers sheltered them in "any kind of defunct housing," according to Carter — old Army barracks, rooms made from discarded wood, and even buildings used to intern Japanese-Americans during World War II. SourceNPR has posted a fascinating article an effort to replace Mexican migrant workers with high school students and the 1960s. Of course, it ends with a lot of the high school students finishing the program out of spite and pride. But it sort of hammers home the problem with farm labor. People do not want to pay a lot for food, which drives down the wages for farm work. And no one is willing to work the farms except migrants who can turn the US dollar into might higher earnings in their country. We have been kicking this can down the road for 60 years at this point. i would rather have picked fruit than worked at a cash register for near minimum wage like i did in my high school days high schoolers dont have jobs anymore. it might be a good idea I would have preferred a cash register to my job cutting flowers and hanging them in a sorting machine. In fact, as a uni student I worked in a shop. Wasn't supermarket cash register, but was far from skilled labor, and far far preferable to the flower business. Sorting roses, together with mixing agar agar for an industrial supplier are by far the worst jobs I've had. And that includes order picking at a pharmaceutical wholesaler and restocking in a supermarket. Both also pretty shitty, but not as bad as the roses. And the rose business was better paid. That's the main reason I kept at it.
whats so bad about roses? especially if it pays more?
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Manual labor sounds romantic until you actually have stew in your own miserable juices doing the labor, let alone the actual damage it does to you. I say this as someone who tiled VCT/ceramic floors in 96 degrees, 100% humidity swampland. By the end of two months I couldn't even bend my fingers because my joints had swollen.
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my idea isn't a romantic one. this isn't some sociological tourism in haiti for youths or a romantic trip around the world. this is about learning what work is and how to use your hands.
obviously i don't envy people who have spent their whole lives picking fruit and have rickety backs and arthritic hands
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I don't know where these notions that people want to do manual labour in arduous conditions for minimum wage is.
I've worked in a kitchen washing dishes before during the summer. Spending hours of my life next to a machine belting steam when it's 110+F inside the kitchen wearing a waterproof apron and heavy gloves is not my idea of what enjoyable labour is. I can't imagine being outside in the same temperature in the sun is any better, especially since it's far more back breaking.
These are jobs that no one really wants to do.
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While I think a good chunk of the "young uns" should develop an appreciation for a hard day of physical labor, IDK if chucking them on a farm is the best way to do so. I think everyone should also do a stint in the service industry too so they can learn to not treat people like shit while we're at it.
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On August 24 2018 10:38 IgnE wrote: my idea isn't a romantic one. this isn't some sociological tourism in haiti for youths or a romantic trip around the world. this is about learning what work is and how to use your hands.
obviously i don't envy people who have spent their whole lives picking fruit and have rickety backs and arthritic hands
But...
"Der takin uuurrr joobbssss...! Deh dun turk my jobsss!"
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 24 2018 13:03 ticklishmusic wrote: While I think a good chunk of the "young uns" should develop an appreciation for a hard day of physical labor, IDK if chucking them on a farm is the best way to do so. I think everyone should also do a stint in the service industry too so they can learn to not treat people like shit while we're at it.
Some manual labour teaches you skills that you can apply for the whole rest of your life. Some is just a fucking ballache with no plus side at all. I can't see why anyone would want, for example, to spend all day in a warehouse carting heavy boxes around, or picking fruit for 12 hours a day. I worked in a fish and chip shop from when I was 15 for a few years and those years in the service industry definitely taught me to suppress my more antisocial tendencies when I need to. It also taught me about hard work, but having also worked a checkout I wouldn't recommend that to anyone at any age. Someone above mentioned working washing pots. I did this in my early twenties in a fancy hotel kitchen and I did learn teamwork skills that have lasted me and benefited me long term. There's a 'special' atmosphere in professional kitchens that if you can replicate it elsewhere can really benefit a business and everyone in it. Having a close knit team where your teammates aren't afraid to tell you if you're performance is shit, which 'shames' people into hard work, is a great way to weed out lazy people and get everyone on the same page, even if the work itself is bullshit.
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On August 24 2018 16:19 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2018 13:03 ticklishmusic wrote: While I think a good chunk of the "young uns" should develop an appreciation for a hard day of physical labor, IDK if chucking them on a farm is the best way to do so. I think everyone should also do a stint in the service industry too so they can learn to not treat people like shit while we're at it. Some manual labour teaches you skills that you can apply for the whole rest of your life. Some is just a fucking ballache with no plus side at all. I can't see why anyone would want, for example, to spend all day in a warehouse carting heavy boxes around, or picking fruit for 12 hours a day. I worked in a fish and chip shop from when I was 15 for a few years and those years in the service industry definitely taught me to suppress my more antisocial tendencies when I need to. It also taught me about hard work, but having also worked a checkout I wouldn't recommend that to anyone at any age. Someone above mentioned working washing pots. I did this in my early twenties in a fancy hotel kitchen and I did learn teamwork skills that have lasted me and benefited me long term. There's a 'special' atmosphere in professional kitchens that if you can replicate it elsewhere can really benefit a business and everyone in it. Having a close knit team where your teammates aren't afraid to tell you if you're performance is shit, which 'shames' people into hard work, is a great way to weed out lazy people and get everyone on the same page, even if the work itself is bullshit.
I've ended up stuck in a shop for much longer than I wanted to, but I'll say this: it's really taught me how to be polite when faced with arseholes, and how to stay calm in the face of unreasoning - and possibly insane - hatred over nothing. Not so long ago someone was threatening to stab me because I refused a £5 refund on an item I'd literally just proved was working fine in front of him.
By turning it on.
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Haha Dealing with psychopaths is definitely something useful to have your CV.
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Yeah but you can't write that. You end up writing something bland like "service sector front facing job dealing with customer complaints". These manual labour and service sector jobs are virtually useless on a CV to anyone expecting to go into further education. All the ones with contacts or go to well connected schools end up doing "work experience" in office work or hospitals or suchlike where they can pad out their CV or whatever it is called nowadays. Paid manual labour or washing dishes are trash jobs. Everything is a life experience. Every job teaches you what work is, or at least what that job is, and the strange reverance some of you have for manual labour I wonder, if it applies to just men or extends to women. They are jobs people romanticise precisely becuase they don't have to do it any longer than a few moments in their lifes.
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