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On February 11 2025 01:13 Zambrah wrote:
I dunno, I dont think you need broad popular support, if we've learned anything lately its that all you need is power, workers dont need the public to care, they just need to have a broad supportive organization amongst themselves and be ready and willing to fight through the ugly sorts of violence that the state will wield in defense of making sure the power of billionaires and itself aren't infringed on.
Same as civil rights, people hated MLK back then, popular support is stupid and bullshit and people care way too much about being popular when movements pop up these days. You dont see the fucking KKK waiting for 50%+ public support, you didn't see Nazis waiting, they took power where they can get it and ran with it.
Hemming and hawing about how you'll be perceived is such Democrat-brand bullshit, stop worrying about how youll be seen and focus your energy on actually doing.
Democrats and their supporters can't help but think this way because they have an ahistorical theory of change. It's effectively how the Democrat party keeps their supporters hostage. The only hope for change for Democrat supporters is falling in line behind and voting for Democrats. It is fundamentally delusional and insane in the "repeating the same thing expecting different results" way.
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And since people always reflexively snarl and say men can do better: THEY WERE CHILDREN WHO NEEDED TO BE RAISED BETTER. THE CHILDREN DID NOTHING WRONG. EVERY ADULT IS ONLY WHO THEY ARE BECAUSE OF THE CHILDREN THEY WERE CRAFTED INTO.
While this may be true, it also isn't really helpful. Yes, they used to be children. And those children did nothing wrong. And they may have deserved better upbringing. But they didn't get that. And now they are adult assholes, and they hurt people.
This argument sadly usually leads to a demand that people sacrifice themselves to try to save those people. After all, they can't help it, and they are only the way they are because they have not been raised right. But that just means that instead of one unhappy person, you now have two. Trying to help an asshole be less of an asshole isn't easy, and rather often it just leads to them still being an asshole, and you being around them being assholed at.
You can not help people who don't want help. Trying to just means making yourself unhappy.
And those people don't know that they would be happier if they learned not to be assholes, so instead they try to make sure that every child gets the same treatment they did. They think the way they were raised is the way you have to raise a child, and fight tooth and nail to prevent people from doing better.
So while you can be sad for them, and try to offer some help, the more important thing is taking care of yourself and also trying to protect the next generation who can actually still be helped.
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On February 11 2025 06:50 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2025 03:05 Uldridge wrote:
It seems like it was all just about male fragility all along.
All they wanted to be was apex predator alpha big king kong balled bootstrap pulling men and they couldn't do that any longer because of all the pussy shit in todays society.
Now they got the reigns and it's time to show all these libcuck bitches once again what it is to be a real man. Own and humiliate, because, yeah, we have muscles and therefore this is justified. Biological realism, bitches. Get used to it.
It's like one of the branching paths in Disco Elysium. This might sound like a bit of a tangent, but I don't think it is: People need to focus more closely on the incel epidemic if they want to stop the spread of fascism. I've spent a lot of time thinking about the incel epidemic because I think a lot of the explanations people use as placeholders are snide and bad faith. Even if we assume all incels or MAGA fascists are shitty people, we still need to help them. Even if we are heartless, they create enough harm that we are better off helping them. To prevent myself from being too long-winded: Western society allowed women to increase their standards faster than society improved the quality of men. Women only gained financial independence from men in 1974. The effects of that have taken a long time to manifest. The unfortunate reality is that many women were softly forced to accept shitty men because they had no other options. BUT THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE DON'T FOCUS ON ENOUGH: Men were raised to be the men they were by their parents and society as a whole. Children born today are not genetically less prone to being abusive or misogynistic. A common complaint about GenZ men is how society talks to them as if its assumed they'll run around raping people like boomers did. It is obvious to them that women shouldn't be raped. It only needs to be briefly pointed out when kids are totally fresh. We focus on reducing the harm done by men but we don't focus nearly enough on encouraging the nurturing and compassionate side of men. Tons of great men exist in the world because they were raised right and everything was peachy. They get girlfriends, wives, and raise families. But many men are left behind and simply don't have the right societal/family culture to raise them to be worthy mates. We are failing these men because we don't give them the tools they need to be what women are after. The old boomer of shit of being emotionally repressed, pretending to be stoic, and all the other male cliches we all know aren't even real are all really damaging. We all know someone who frames themselves as an iron wall of emotion and whatnot. None of it is real. Every single one of these men are deeply emotional. The result is: men who don't know how to process what they are feeling, don't know how to connect with women, don't know how to form fulfilling relationships, and end up not even having any idea who to blame. They are so left behind they just wander the internet looking for someone to soothe them. Fascism does the trick. And since people always reflexively snarl and say men can do better: THEY WERE CHILDREN WHO NEEDED TO BE RAISED BETTER. THE CHILDREN DID NOTHING WRONG. EVERY ADULT IS ONLY WHO THEY ARE BECAUSE OF THE CHILDREN THEY WERE CRAFTED INTO.
Yes, it's a big liberal/left blind spot about denying/overlooking issues that young men deal with. It has long been a fascist tactic to try to use disaffected male groups as means of gathering new members. If nobody else is going to at least listen to you, let alone help you, it can be easy to get pulled down a slippery slope.
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United States15580 Posts
On February 11 2025 07:09 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +
And since people always reflexively snarl and say men can do better: THEY WERE CHILDREN WHO NEEDED TO BE RAISED BETTER. THE CHILDREN DID NOTHING WRONG. EVERY ADULT IS ONLY WHO THEY ARE BECAUSE OF THE CHILDREN THEY WERE CRAFTED INTO.
While this may be true, it also isn't really helpful. Yes, they used to be children. And those children did nothing wrong. And they may have deserved better upbringing. But they didn't get that. And now they are adult assholes, and they hurt people. This argument sadly usually leads to a demand that people sacrifice themselves to try to save those people. After all, they can't help it, and they are only the way they are because they have not been raised right. But that just means that instead of one unhappy person, you now have two. Trying to help an asshole be less of an asshole isn't easy, and rather often it just leads to them still being an asshole, and you being around them being assholed at. You can not help people who don't want help. Trying to just means making yourself unhappy. And those people don't know that they would be happier if they learned not to be assholes, so instead they try to make sure that every child gets the same treatment they did. They think the way they were raised is the way you have to raise a child, and fight tooth and nail to prevent people from doing better. So while you can be sad for them, and try to offer some help, the more important thing is taking care of yourself and also trying to protect the next generation who can actually still be helped.
I should have been clear about my point with all that. What I meant to follow up on and kinda forgot my the end of my rant, is that we need to be focused on how we can start raising men to be less broken people. We've done a lot of great things to improve the way we raise girls to be strong women. We need to start putting the same attention on raising boys to be strong men. And *actual* strong men, not bravado bullshit being used to hide an entirely hollow self image.
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United States15580 Posts
On February 11 2025 07:36 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2025 06:50 Mohdoo wrote:On February 11 2025 03:05 Uldridge wrote:
It seems like it was all just about male fragility all along.
All they wanted to be was apex predator alpha big king kong balled bootstrap pulling men and they couldn't do that any longer because of all the pussy shit in todays society.
Now they got the reigns and it's time to show all these libcuck bitches once again what it is to be a real man. Own and humiliate, because, yeah, we have muscles and therefore this is justified. Biological realism, bitches. Get used to it.
It's like one of the branching paths in Disco Elysium. This might sound like a bit of a tangent, but I don't think it is: People need to focus more closely on the incel epidemic if they want to stop the spread of fascism. I've spent a lot of time thinking about the incel epidemic because I think a lot of the explanations people use as placeholders are snide and bad faith. Even if we assume all incels or MAGA fascists are shitty people, we still need to help them. Even if we are heartless, they create enough harm that we are better off helping them. To prevent myself from being too long-winded: Western society allowed women to increase their standards faster than society improved the quality of men. Women only gained financial independence from men in 1974. The effects of that have taken a long time to manifest. The unfortunate reality is that many women were softly forced to accept shitty men because they had no other options. BUT THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE DON'T FOCUS ON ENOUGH: Men were raised to be the men they were by their parents and society as a whole. Children born today are not genetically less prone to being abusive or misogynistic. A common complaint about GenZ men is how society talks to them as if its assumed they'll run around raping people like boomers did. It is obvious to them that women shouldn't be raped. It only needs to be briefly pointed out when kids are totally fresh. We focus on reducing the harm done by men but we don't focus nearly enough on encouraging the nurturing and compassionate side of men. Tons of great men exist in the world because they were raised right and everything was peachy. They get girlfriends, wives, and raise families. But many men are left behind and simply don't have the right societal/family culture to raise them to be worthy mates. We are failing these men because we don't give them the tools they need to be what women are after. The old boomer of shit of being emotionally repressed, pretending to be stoic, and all the other male cliches we all know aren't even real are all really damaging. We all know someone who frames themselves as an iron wall of emotion and whatnot. None of it is real. Every single one of these men are deeply emotional. The result is: men who don't know how to process what they are feeling, don't know how to connect with women, don't know how to form fulfilling relationships, and end up not even having any idea who to blame. They are so left behind they just wander the internet looking for someone to soothe them. Fascism does the trick. And since people always reflexively snarl and say men can do better: THEY WERE CHILDREN WHO NEEDED TO BE RAISED BETTER. THE CHILDREN DID NOTHING WRONG. EVERY ADULT IS ONLY WHO THEY ARE BECAUSE OF THE CHILDREN THEY WERE CRAFTED INTO. Yes, it's a big liberal/left blind spot about denying/overlooking issues that young men deal with. It has long been a fascist tactic to try to use disaffected male groups as means of gathering new members. If nobody else is going to at least listen to you, let alone help you, it can be easy to get pulled down a slippery slope.
I agree. And what's frustrating is that even among liberal, educated, healthy-parenting-minded people, its like the boys are just assumed as ok. I wouldn't say it goes so far as to be what I call "boomer parenting", but it is definitely outdated in a lot of ways. I also know people who raise their boys in a very modern and healthy way where they can be masculine while also having a soul and emotions. But its mostly people just giving them monster trucks and asking them if they want to go throw sticks.
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I get that Mohdoo, but I was talking about the already big dick swingers who had to put theirs in a chastity cage because they seemingly had too big dicks to swing and now they once again can unleash their big dicks and swing it in full glory.
The incels never had big dicks (according to the alphas and everyone else in society), they're the saps who are being deluded into thinking they might someday, if they train or pray (and prey) hard enough, they'll one day wake up with nice trunk of hunk in between their legs. My phrasing might seem ironic, but I can assure you, it's actually, literally, all about big dicks.
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United States15580 Posts
On February 11 2025 07:56 Uldridge wrote:
I get that Mohdoo, but I was talking about the already big dick swingers who had to put theirs in a chastity cage because they seemingly had too big dicks to swing and now they once again can unleash their big dicks and swing it in full glory.
The incels never had big dicks (according to the alphas and everyone else in society), they're the saps who are being deluded into thinking they might someday, if they train or pray (and prey) hard enough, they'll one day wake up with nice trunk of hunk in between their legs. My phrasing might seem ironic, but I can assure you, it's actually, literally, all about big dicks.
Oh I agree and I of course agree fascism isn't any less damaging when we realize its mostly the result of insecurity. I'm just saying this is only going to get worse if we don't at least reduce the effect. But all the stuff about how to address fascism etc is all the same. I just think the left wing as a whole still has this major blindspot in their general worldview.
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Yeah. Dr K is doing a good job with this. I think, iirc Simon Sinek also brushes upon these topics as well.
Young men are impressionable, look for mentorship and have a lot of energy they need to use (focusedly). We shouldn't demonize this, but gently steer them in the right direction. They're just kids and already receive the immense burden of being called a sexual predator. Talk about Christian value. And to say we've become secular...
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Northern Ireland24931 Posts
On February 11 2025 07:36 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2025 06:50 Mohdoo wrote:On February 11 2025 03:05 Uldridge wrote:
It seems like it was all just about male fragility all along.
All they wanted to be was apex predator alpha big king kong balled bootstrap pulling men and they couldn't do that any longer because of all the pussy shit in todays society.
Now they got the reigns and it's time to show all these libcuck bitches once again what it is to be a real man. Own and humiliate, because, yeah, we have muscles and therefore this is justified. Biological realism, bitches. Get used to it.
It's like one of the branching paths in Disco Elysium. This might sound like a bit of a tangent, but I don't think it is: People need to focus more closely on the incel epidemic if they want to stop the spread of fascism. I've spent a lot of time thinking about the incel epidemic because I think a lot of the explanations people use as placeholders are snide and bad faith. Even if we assume all incels or MAGA fascists are shitty people, we still need to help them. Even if we are heartless, they create enough harm that we are better off helping them. To prevent myself from being too long-winded: Western society allowed women to increase their standards faster than society improved the quality of men. Women only gained financial independence from men in 1974. The effects of that have taken a long time to manifest. The unfortunate reality is that many women were softly forced to accept shitty men because they had no other options. BUT THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE DON'T FOCUS ON ENOUGH: Men were raised to be the men they were by their parents and society as a whole. Children born today are not genetically less prone to being abusive or misogynistic. A common complaint about GenZ men is how society talks to them as if its assumed they'll run around raping people like boomers did. It is obvious to them that women shouldn't be raped. It only needs to be briefly pointed out when kids are totally fresh. We focus on reducing the harm done by men but we don't focus nearly enough on encouraging the nurturing and compassionate side of men. Tons of great men exist in the world because they were raised right and everything was peachy. They get girlfriends, wives, and raise families. But many men are left behind and simply don't have the right societal/family culture to raise them to be worthy mates. We are failing these men because we don't give them the tools they need to be what women are after. The old boomer of shit of being emotionally repressed, pretending to be stoic, and all the other male cliches we all know aren't even real are all really damaging. We all know someone who frames themselves as an iron wall of emotion and whatnot. None of it is real. Every single one of these men are deeply emotional. The result is: men who don't know how to process what they are feeling, don't know how to connect with women, don't know how to form fulfilling relationships, and end up not even having any idea who to blame. They are so left behind they just wander the internet looking for someone to soothe them. Fascism does the trick. And since people always reflexively snarl and say men can do better: THEY WERE CHILDREN WHO NEEDED TO BE RAISED BETTER. THE CHILDREN DID NOTHING WRONG. EVERY ADULT IS ONLY WHO THEY ARE BECAUSE OF THE CHILDREN THEY WERE CRAFTED INTO. Yes, it's a big liberal/left blind spot about denying/overlooking issues that young men deal with. It has long been a fascist tactic to try to use disaffected male groups as means of gathering new members. If nobody else is going to at least listen to you, let alone help you, it can be easy to get pulled down a slippery slope.
I find this is sort of both true, but also grossly overstated by malicious actors. Whose prescriptions to fix those issues are often actively counter-productive.
Male suicide is a horrendous problem here, it’s outright our highest cause of death among young men in certain brackets. I’ve lost two friends to it and both before they hit 25. One acquaintance I knew tangentially through SC, at 19. At one stage I’d known more young men die to suicide, than everyone else for any other cause.
Now, I think it’s definitely lower on the visibility agenda than it should be, but there are people talking, or trying to do things.
Often the very kind of ‘lefty feminist’ types that we’re constantly told dont care about men or their problems.
To crudely generalise I find the issue isn’t ’nobody is listening’ and ‘nobody is giving me the answers I want’.
Incels are an extreme of course, but quite an illustrative extreme. People are pretty broadly sympathetic of loneliness, it sucks. But incels end up adopting an incredibly entitled, toxic and misogynistic worldview that is actively counter-productive to their initial problem getting addressed. And once they’re sufficiently ensconced, man no amount of telling them that the problem is that worldview punches through. I tried once with a bloke I knew who fell down that rabbit hole and man was I unsuccessful.
But look, as I said there are problems in this domain, and probably not the focus societally as they merit. I also think quite a lot of confusion and anger arises for us being in something of a transitory stage. Depending on the audience, there may be an expectation of being emotionally open and more sensitive, or be the stoic manly man , or borderline chauvinistic or whatever. So you can end up with this disconnect on how the culture is telling you to behave, and their actual reaction when you do.
So yeah, plenty of agreement there I just think a lot of the reaction is really misplaced.
Feminist causes having more visibility isn’t by happenstance, there’s centuries of ground work there. Or the LGBTQ community. Or various racial movements, there’s plenty of examples to take at least something from, or hell work with.
Even if it’s one bloke/blokette setting up a men’s shed, that’s a positive move that fills a very real gap and actually does something.
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United States15580 Posts
On February 11 2025 09:27 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2025 07:36 Gahlo wrote:On February 11 2025 06:50 Mohdoo wrote:On February 11 2025 03:05 Uldridge wrote:
It seems like it was all just about male fragility all along.
All they wanted to be was apex predator alpha big king kong balled bootstrap pulling men and they couldn't do that any longer because of all the pussy shit in todays society.
Now they got the reigns and it's time to show all these libcuck bitches once again what it is to be a real man. Own and humiliate, because, yeah, we have muscles and therefore this is justified. Biological realism, bitches. Get used to it.
It's like one of the branching paths in Disco Elysium. This might sound like a bit of a tangent, but I don't think it is: People need to focus more closely on the incel epidemic if they want to stop the spread of fascism. I've spent a lot of time thinking about the incel epidemic because I think a lot of the explanations people use as placeholders are snide and bad faith. Even if we assume all incels or MAGA fascists are shitty people, we still need to help them. Even if we are heartless, they create enough harm that we are better off helping them. To prevent myself from being too long-winded: Western society allowed women to increase their standards faster than society improved the quality of men. Women only gained financial independence from men in 1974. The effects of that have taken a long time to manifest. The unfortunate reality is that many women were softly forced to accept shitty men because they had no other options. BUT THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE DON'T FOCUS ON ENOUGH: Men were raised to be the men they were by their parents and society as a whole. Children born today are not genetically less prone to being abusive or misogynistic. A common complaint about GenZ men is how society talks to them as if its assumed they'll run around raping people like boomers did. It is obvious to them that women shouldn't be raped. It only needs to be briefly pointed out when kids are totally fresh. We focus on reducing the harm done by men but we don't focus nearly enough on encouraging the nurturing and compassionate side of men. Tons of great men exist in the world because they were raised right and everything was peachy. They get girlfriends, wives, and raise families. But many men are left behind and simply don't have the right societal/family culture to raise them to be worthy mates. We are failing these men because we don't give them the tools they need to be what women are after. The old boomer of shit of being emotionally repressed, pretending to be stoic, and all the other male cliches we all know aren't even real are all really damaging. We all know someone who frames themselves as an iron wall of emotion and whatnot. None of it is real. Every single one of these men are deeply emotional. The result is: men who don't know how to process what they are feeling, don't know how to connect with women, don't know how to form fulfilling relationships, and end up not even having any idea who to blame. They are so left behind they just wander the internet looking for someone to soothe them. Fascism does the trick. And since people always reflexively snarl and say men can do better: THEY WERE CHILDREN WHO NEEDED TO BE RAISED BETTER. THE CHILDREN DID NOTHING WRONG. EVERY ADULT IS ONLY WHO THEY ARE BECAUSE OF THE CHILDREN THEY WERE CRAFTED INTO. Yes, it's a big liberal/left blind spot about denying/overlooking issues that young men deal with. It has long been a fascist tactic to try to use disaffected male groups as means of gathering new members. If nobody else is going to at least listen to you, let alone help you, it can be easy to get pulled down a slippery slope. I find this is sort of both true, but also grossly overstated by malicious actors. Whose prescriptions to fix those issues are often actively counter-productive. Male suicide is a horrendous problem here, it’s outright our highest cause of death among young men in certain brackets. I’ve lost two friends to it and both before they hit 25. One acquaintance I knew tangentially through SC, at 19. At one stage I’d known more young men die to suicide, than everyone else for any other cause. Now, I think it’s definitely lower on the visibility agenda than it should be, but there are people talking, or trying to do things. Often the very kind of ‘lefty feminist’ types that we’re constantly told dont care about men or their problems. To crudely generalise I find the issue isn’t ’nobody is listening’ and ‘nobody is giving me the answers I want’. Incels are an extreme of course, but quite an illustrative extreme. People are pretty broadly sympathetic of loneliness, it sucks. But incels end up adopting an incredibly entitled, toxic and misogynistic worldview that is actively counter-productive to their initial problem getting addressed. And once they’re sufficiently ensconced, man no amount of telling them that the problem is that worldview punches through. I tried once with a bloke I knew who fell down that rabbit hole and man was I unsuccessful. But look, as I said there are problems in this domain, and probably not the focus societally as they merit. I also think quite a lot of confusion and anger arises for us being in something of a transitory stage. Depending on the audience, there may be an expectation of being emotionally open and more sensitive, or be the stoic manly man , or borderline chauvinistic or whatever. So you can end up with this disconnect on how the culture is telling you to behave, and their actual reaction when you do. So yeah, plenty of agreement there I just think a lot of the reaction is really misplaced. Feminist causes having more visibility isn’t by happenstance, there’s centuries of ground work there. Or the LGBTQ community. Or various racial movements, there’s plenty of examples to take at least something from, or hell work with. Even if it’s one bloke/blokette setting up a men’s shed, that’s a positive move that fills a very real gap and actually does something.
I think the key distinction is intent. Raunchy right wing dipshits like to frame it as some kinda conspiracy against men, or hatred of men. They say men are intentionally left behind or intentionally shunned emotionally for the sake of female supremacy through the DEI-empowered crusade. This take is of course dog shit.
It is true that women got their cultural refresh with a lot more expediency, logistical support, and societal support. But it was also a lot more obviously broken. And in some ways, before women's cultural refresh movement, the issues facing men were less apparent. Now we know lots of dynamics associated with "gender roles" harmed men just as much as women. Men being told to toughen up, lock away their feelings, pretend to be stoic, and all that other crap, went on for so long many people honestly believed it was biologically true.
I think many of us here can think of a family member or family friend who was generally known to be "tough as nails" and other such tropes. The general idea was that this guy simply did not get emotional and took a very "cold hard facts" view of situations. All of these people were locked in this cage their entire lives and it was never true. None of our dads are actually stone cold or whatever. It is all a hellish prison. Many of them are aware of it being a farce, but some of them assume they're just worse men and try cover it up best they can.
This general "unemotional" trope is oppressive and miserable for the men who are forced to play the part. But it wasn't a bunch of blue haired college students trying to sabotage male psychology. This is just a cultural relic that is slowly being undone. It is also a component of why so many young men are such dreadful partners and simply end up alone. It makes you a really shitty husband and a lot of women have no need to indulge it or tolerate it. They just move on to someone who is less toxic. And just like that, once there is an enemy to focus on and be mad at, suddenly these men are quite emotional, but with the worst direction/guidance possible. Its a tragedy, but it isn't malicious.
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On February 11 2025 10:01 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2025 09:27 WombaT wrote:On February 11 2025 07:36 Gahlo wrote:On February 11 2025 06:50 Mohdoo wrote:On February 11 2025 03:05 Uldridge wrote:
It seems like it was all just about male fragility all along.
All they wanted to be was apex predator alpha big king kong balled bootstrap pulling men and they couldn't do that any longer because of all the pussy shit in todays society.
Now they got the reigns and it's time to show all these libcuck bitches once again what it is to be a real man. Own and humiliate, because, yeah, we have muscles and therefore this is justified. Biological realism, bitches. Get used to it.
It's like one of the branching paths in Disco Elysium. This might sound like a bit of a tangent, but I don't think it is: People need to focus more closely on the incel epidemic if they want to stop the spread of fascism. I've spent a lot of time thinking about the incel epidemic because I think a lot of the explanations people use as placeholders are snide and bad faith. Even if we assume all incels or MAGA fascists are shitty people, we still need to help them. Even if we are heartless, they create enough harm that we are better off helping them. To prevent myself from being too long-winded: Western society allowed women to increase their standards faster than society improved the quality of men. Women only gained financial independence from men in 1974. The effects of that have taken a long time to manifest. The unfortunate reality is that many women were softly forced to accept shitty men because they had no other options. BUT THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE DON'T FOCUS ON ENOUGH: Men were raised to be the men they were by their parents and society as a whole. Children born today are not genetically less prone to being abusive or misogynistic. A common complaint about GenZ men is how society talks to them as if its assumed they'll run around raping people like boomers did. It is obvious to them that women shouldn't be raped. It only needs to be briefly pointed out when kids are totally fresh. We focus on reducing the harm done by men but we don't focus nearly enough on encouraging the nurturing and compassionate side of men. Tons of great men exist in the world because they were raised right and everything was peachy. They get girlfriends, wives, and raise families. But many men are left behind and simply don't have the right societal/family culture to raise them to be worthy mates. We are failing these men because we don't give them the tools they need to be what women are after. The old boomer of shit of being emotionally repressed, pretending to be stoic, and all the other male cliches we all know aren't even real are all really damaging. We all know someone who frames themselves as an iron wall of emotion and whatnot. None of it is real. Every single one of these men are deeply emotional. The result is: men who don't know how to process what they are feeling, don't know how to connect with women, don't know how to form fulfilling relationships, and end up not even having any idea who to blame. They are so left behind they just wander the internet looking for someone to soothe them. Fascism does the trick. And since people always reflexively snarl and say men can do better: THEY WERE CHILDREN WHO NEEDED TO BE RAISED BETTER. THE CHILDREN DID NOTHING WRONG. EVERY ADULT IS ONLY WHO THEY ARE BECAUSE OF THE CHILDREN THEY WERE CRAFTED INTO. Yes, it's a big liberal/left blind spot about denying/overlooking issues that young men deal with. It has long been a fascist tactic to try to use disaffected male groups as means of gathering new members. If nobody else is going to at least listen to you, let alone help you, it can be easy to get pulled down a slippery slope. I find this is sort of both true, but also grossly overstated by malicious actors. Whose prescriptions to fix those issues are often actively counter-productive. Male suicide is a horrendous problem here, it’s outright our highest cause of death among young men in certain brackets. I’ve lost two friends to it and both before they hit 25. One acquaintance I knew tangentially through SC, at 19. At one stage I’d known more young men die to suicide, than everyone else for any other cause. Now, I think it’s definitely lower on the visibility agenda than it should be, but there are people talking, or trying to do things. Often the very kind of ‘lefty feminist’ types that we’re constantly told dont care about men or their problems. To crudely generalise I find the issue isn’t ’nobody is listening’ and ‘nobody is giving me the answers I want’. Incels are an extreme of course, but quite an illustrative extreme. People are pretty broadly sympathetic of loneliness, it sucks. But incels end up adopting an incredibly entitled, toxic and misogynistic worldview that is actively counter-productive to their initial problem getting addressed. And once they’re sufficiently ensconced, man no amount of telling them that the problem is that worldview punches through. I tried once with a bloke I knew who fell down that rabbit hole and man was I unsuccessful. But look, as I said there are problems in this domain, and probably not the focus societally as they merit. I also think quite a lot of confusion and anger arises for us being in something of a transitory stage. Depending on the audience, there may be an expectation of being emotionally open and more sensitive, or be the stoic manly man , or borderline chauvinistic or whatever. So you can end up with this disconnect on how the culture is telling you to behave, and their actual reaction when you do. So yeah, plenty of agreement there I just think a lot of the reaction is really misplaced. Feminist causes having more visibility isn’t by happenstance, there’s centuries of ground work there. Or the LGBTQ community. Or various racial movements, there’s plenty of examples to take at least something from, or hell work with. Even if it’s one bloke/blokette setting up a men’s shed, that’s a positive move that fills a very real gap and actually does something. I think the key distinction is intent. Raunchy right wing dipshits like to frame it as some kinda conspiracy against men, or hatred of men. They say men are intentionally left behind or intentionally shunned emotionally for the sake of female supremacy through the DEI-empowered crusade. This take is of course dog shit. It is true that women got their cultural refresh with a lot more expediency, logistical support, and societal support. But it was also a lot more obviously broken. And in some ways, before women's cultural refresh movement, the issues facing men were less apparent. Now we know lots of dynamics associated with "gender roles" harmed men just as much as women. Men being told to toughen up, lock away their feelings, pretend to be stoic, and all that other crap, went on for so long many people honestly believed it was biologically true. I think many of us here can think of a family member or family friend who was generally known to be "tough as nails" and other such tropes. The general idea was that this guy simply did not get emotional and took a very "cold hard facts" view of situations. All of these people were locked in this cage their entire lives and it was never true. None of our dads are actually stone cold or whatever. It is all a hellish prison. Many of them are aware of it being a farce, but some of them assume they're just worse men and try cover it up best they can. This general "unemotional" trope is oppressive and miserable for the men who are forced to play the part. But it wasn't a bunch of blue haired college students trying to sabotage male psychology. This is just a cultural relic that is slowly being undone. It is also a component of why so many young men are such dreadful partners and simply end up alone. It makes you a really shitty husband and a lot of women have no need to indulge it or tolerate it. They just move on to someone who is less toxic. And just like that, once there is an enemy to focus on and be mad at, suddenly these men are quite emotional, but with the worst direction/guidance possible. Its a tragedy, but it isn't malicious.
“The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. If an individual is not successful in emotionally crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem.”
― bell hooks
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I love this philosophy talk. 
It appears Trump has kept his promise of a 30 day reprieve on tariffs to Canada and Mexico. The steel and aluminum tariffs go into effect on March 4.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c360dz384n5o
Nice to see Trump keep his word. With these tariffs Canada and Mexico will continue to have the lowest tariff rates in the world.
On February 11 2025 11:58 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2025 10:01 Mohdoo wrote:On February 11 2025 09:27 WombaT wrote:On February 11 2025 07:36 Gahlo wrote:On February 11 2025 06:50 Mohdoo wrote:On February 11 2025 03:05 Uldridge wrote:
It seems like it was all just about male fragility all along.
All they wanted to be was apex predator alpha big king kong balled bootstrap pulling men and they couldn't do that any longer because of all the pussy shit in todays society.
Now they got the reigns and it's time to show all these libcuck bitches once again what it is to be a real man. Own and humiliate, because, yeah, we have muscles and therefore this is justified. Biological realism, bitches. Get used to it.
It's like one of the branching paths in Disco Elysium. This might sound like a bit of a tangent, but I don't think it is: People need to focus more closely on the incel epidemic if they want to stop the spread of fascism. I've spent a lot of time thinking about the incel epidemic because I think a lot of the explanations people use as placeholders are snide and bad faith. Even if we assume all incels or MAGA fascists are shitty people, we still need to help them. Even if we are heartless, they create enough harm that we are better off helping them. To prevent myself from being too long-winded: Western society allowed women to increase their standards faster than society improved the quality of men. Women only gained financial independence from men in 1974. The effects of that have taken a long time to manifest. The unfortunate reality is that many women were softly forced to accept shitty men because they had no other options. BUT THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE DON'T FOCUS ON ENOUGH: Men were raised to be the men they were by their parents and society as a whole. Children born today are not genetically less prone to being abusive or misogynistic. A common complaint about GenZ men is how society talks to them as if its assumed they'll run around raping people like boomers did. It is obvious to them that women shouldn't be raped. It only needs to be briefly pointed out when kids are totally fresh. We focus on reducing the harm done by men but we don't focus nearly enough on encouraging the nurturing and compassionate side of men. Tons of great men exist in the world because they were raised right and everything was peachy. They get girlfriends, wives, and raise families. But many men are left behind and simply don't have the right societal/family culture to raise them to be worthy mates. We are failing these men because we don't give them the tools they need to be what women are after. The old boomer of shit of being emotionally repressed, pretending to be stoic, and all the other male cliches we all know aren't even real are all really damaging. We all know someone who frames themselves as an iron wall of emotion and whatnot. None of it is real. Every single one of these men are deeply emotional. The result is: men who don't know how to process what they are feeling, don't know how to connect with women, don't know how to form fulfilling relationships, and end up not even having any idea who to blame. They are so left behind they just wander the internet looking for someone to soothe them. Fascism does the trick. And since people always reflexively snarl and say men can do better: THEY WERE CHILDREN WHO NEEDED TO BE RAISED BETTER. THE CHILDREN DID NOTHING WRONG. EVERY ADULT IS ONLY WHO THEY ARE BECAUSE OF THE CHILDREN THEY WERE CRAFTED INTO. Yes, it's a big liberal/left blind spot about denying/overlooking issues that young men deal with. It has long been a fascist tactic to try to use disaffected male groups as means of gathering new members. If nobody else is going to at least listen to you, let alone help you, it can be easy to get pulled down a slippery slope. I find this is sort of both true, but also grossly overstated by malicious actors. Whose prescriptions to fix those issues are often actively counter-productive. Male suicide is a horrendous problem here, it’s outright our highest cause of death among young men in certain brackets. I’ve lost two friends to it and both before they hit 25. One acquaintance I knew tangentially through SC, at 19. At one stage I’d known more young men die to suicide, than everyone else for any other cause. Now, I think it’s definitely lower on the visibility agenda than it should be, but there are people talking, or trying to do things. Often the very kind of ‘lefty feminist’ types that we’re constantly told dont care about men or their problems. To crudely generalise I find the issue isn’t ’nobody is listening’ and ‘nobody is giving me the answers I want’. Incels are an extreme of course, but quite an illustrative extreme. People are pretty broadly sympathetic of loneliness, it sucks. But incels end up adopting an incredibly entitled, toxic and misogynistic worldview that is actively counter-productive to their initial problem getting addressed. And once they’re sufficiently ensconced, man no amount of telling them that the problem is that worldview punches through. I tried once with a bloke I knew who fell down that rabbit hole and man was I unsuccessful. But look, as I said there are problems in this domain, and probably not the focus societally as they merit. I also think quite a lot of confusion and anger arises for us being in something of a transitory stage. Depending on the audience, there may be an expectation of being emotionally open and more sensitive, or be the stoic manly man , or borderline chauvinistic or whatever. So you can end up with this disconnect on how the culture is telling you to behave, and their actual reaction when you do. So yeah, plenty of agreement there I just think a lot of the reaction is really misplaced. Feminist causes having more visibility isn’t by happenstance, there’s centuries of ground work there. Or the LGBTQ community. Or various racial movements, there’s plenty of examples to take at least something from, or hell work with. Even if it’s one bloke/blokette setting up a men’s shed, that’s a positive move that fills a very real gap and actually does something. I think the key distinction is intent. Raunchy right wing dipshits like to frame it as some kinda conspiracy against men, or hatred of men. They say men are intentionally left behind or intentionally shunned emotionally for the sake of female supremacy through the DEI-empowered crusade. This take is of course dog shit. It is true that women got their cultural refresh with a lot more expediency, logistical support, and societal support. But it was also a lot more obviously broken. And in some ways, before women's cultural refresh movement, the issues facing men were less apparent. Now we know lots of dynamics associated with "gender roles" harmed men just as much as women. Men being told to toughen up, lock away their feelings, pretend to be stoic, and all that other crap, went on for so long many people honestly believed it was biologically true. I think many of us here can think of a family member or family friend who was generally known to be "tough as nails" and other such tropes. The general idea was that this guy simply did not get emotional and took a very "cold hard facts" view of situations. All of these people were locked in this cage their entire lives and it was never true. None of our dads are actually stone cold or whatever. It is all a hellish prison. Many of them are aware of it being a farce, but some of them assume they're just worse men and try cover it up best they can. This general "unemotional" trope is oppressive and miserable for the men who are forced to play the part. But it wasn't a bunch of blue haired college students trying to sabotage male psychology. This is just a cultural relic that is slowly being undone. It is also a component of why so many young men are such dreadful partners and simply end up alone. It makes you a really shitty husband and a lot of women have no need to indulge it or tolerate it. They just move on to someone who is less toxic. And just like that, once there is an enemy to focus on and be mad at, suddenly these men are quite emotional, but with the worst direction/guidance possible. Its a tragedy, but it isn't malicious. “The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. If an individual is not successful in emotionally crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem.” ― bell hooks
Humans are both the deadliest and the most sophisticated predators on planet earth. Humans are designed to hunt and kill. In the early 80s, Ronald Reagan was the king of the jungle. I'm not sure if we can say the same of Donald Trump... his tribute to the red hat Reagan made famous notwithstanding.
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Are you now praising Trump for doing and getting nothing? If you don't count te diplomatic fallout...
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On February 11 2025 15:19 Velr wrote:
Are you now praising Trump for doing and getting nothing? If you don't count te diplomatic fallout...
Canada and Mexico folded like lawn furniture. Trump got much better border security and ended up imposing tariffs in the end after getting commitments from both nations.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-safety-canada/news/2025/02/government-of-canada-expands-plan-to-strengthen-border-security.html
WP by Trump.
Both nations have painted themselves into a corner by focusing so much of their exports on the USA. It was only a matter of time before a US regime would come along and squeeze them for it. As I've stated earlier Canada used to only have 63% of exports going to the USA. It has grown to over 80%. Why trust the goodwill of the USA so much? What has the USA done to earn so much goodwill?
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Again those decisions are being re-packed as something trump achieved, when in reality were planned before he took office.
All you need to do is re-write the Press release.
"Mexico is ordering soldiers to help the police in border regions."
Trump: TARIFFS, Military, Emails!
"Mexico is ordering soldiers to help the police in border regions, to avoid tariffs"
Trump: Epic win! Win All along! I like to smell my farts!
I really don't understand your points.. if Canadistan got merchandise that the US needs, and buys for cheap.. why interrupt business?
Why are tariffs good, and taxes are bad? Isn't both impeding capitalism and free markets?
And why does the US so much rely on it's only land-neighbours so much? 50% of all the exports are to Canada and Mexico..
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Finland929 Posts
I think the talking points are that previously Canada and Mexico weren't actually going to hold on to their commitments, but this time they totally are, because of Trump's magical negotiating skills. It's a bit confusing to follow.
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On February 11 2025 18:50 hexhaven wrote:
I think the talking points are that previously Canada and Mexico weren't actually going to hold on to their commitments, but this time they totally are, because of Trump's magical negotiating skills. It's a bit confusing to follow.
He just really wants to believe Trump's spin.
Trump's strong believe in tariffs is mysterious, though. It is a consumer tax, and tariffs are never good for the economy, only a very expensive way to protect specific industries.
The US is quickly turning into a bully who stands in a corner screaming, while everyone else is laughing at them.
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No one is laughing. Everyone is really fucking uncomfortable thinking about how to avoid the weirdo, which is hard because the weirdo loves to buy your stuff and has his hands in everything, yet there is also the chance that he just implodes on himself dragging everyone down with him.
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Give the weirdo some more fentanyl, maybe that'll mellow him out.
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Could choke the weirdo out on a subway until death and be praised for it later? I dunno just spitballin' here...
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EPT
