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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom1451 Posts
I've always (and apparently very wrongly) assumed that each state's electoral college representation was more or less even on a per capita basis. I didn't realise the difference was a big as 1 electoral college vote per ~150k people in Wyoming and 1 electoral college vote per ~530k people Florida. That's wild. | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1160 Posts
![[image loading]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/Results_by_county_of_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election_with_counties_scaled_by_number_of_votes_cast.png/1280px-Results_by_county_of_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election_with_counties_scaled_by_number_of_votes_cast.png) Cool image by wikipedia. can't say it transports information well, but at least shows the madness of this voting system..maybe trump will indeed earase it :/ | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22440 Posts
On November 05 2024 20:45 MJG wrote: Because the electoral college is tried to the total number of members of Congress (house + senate) which is capped and itself also growing more and more skewed.I never realised before how much difference there was between voter power in each US state. I've always (and apparently very wrongly) assumed that each state's electoral college representation was more or less even on a per capita basis. I didn't realise the difference was a big as 1 electoral college vote per ~150k people in Wyoming and 1 electoral college vote per ~530k people Florida. That's wild. | ||
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Mikau313
Netherlands230 Posts
On November 05 2024 21:24 Gorsameth wrote: Because the electoral college is tried to the total number of members of Congress (house + senate) which is capped and itself also growing more and more skewed. I think "because it's the only way Republicans will ever get close to the presidency ever again" is a more accurate answer. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22440 Posts
On November 05 2024 21:26 Mikau313 wrote: Yes without the electoral college Republicans are fucked but the size of the House has been capped since 1929 so I don't blame modern Republicans for that. I think "because it's the only way Republicans will ever get close to the presidency ever again" is a more accurate answer. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10910 Posts
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KT_Elwood
Germany1160 Posts
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Billyboy
1935 Posts
On November 05 2024 14:31 WombaT wrote: Red lines are red lines, despite what Barack Obama says Consider this hypothetical. You’ve dude A you really hate, dude B you really dislike but less Someone tells you you’re duty bound to have you wife or s/o banged by one of them. For the greater good. Hey B is slightly less shit Alternatively, you have the option of just leaving your wife or s/o to remain in glorious monogamy, untainted with such sordid machinations. I don’t see why this is so unfathomable to folks. GH considers it a non-negotiable issue, and provided neither party shifts to his position he’s not going to proffer his support to either. In a state where his vote is effectively meaningless anyway. Why is this so confusing? It is confusing because this has nothing to do with why fascism is genocide, which is just a completely wrong and nonsensical statement. There are so many bad statements made that people on the "left" feel obliged to defend. If it is bad or worse statement people need to start being against it whether or no matter what "side" they have branded themselves. As to your completely unrelated analogy, if it means stopping a fascist from taking over and trying to swap from a democracy to theocracy with oligarchs they can both bang my wife at the same time.  When stakes are high enough you have to make hard choices, there is nothing moralistic about dodging hard questions so you can be condescending. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9885 Posts
Can you commit genocide if you aren't fascist? I don't know that you can. The wiping out of an ethnic group could just happen due to political convenience I suppose but if there's any ideology behind the genocide you're pretty much looking at fascism. So I'd say that genocide is (usually) fascism, but fascism is not genocide. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10910 Posts
Facism is a political system. Genocide is an action taken by a state or group. They describe totally diffrent things. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27071 Posts
On November 05 2024 21:17 KT_Elwood wrote: Cool image by wikipedia. can't say it transports information well, but at least shows the madness of this voting system..maybe trump will indeed earase it :/ I don’t think it’s cool that Wikipedia used a graphic of my lungs in this way | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On November 05 2024 21:55 Velr wrote: No... For fucks sake. Facism is a political system. Genocide is an action taken by a state or group. They describe totally diffrent things. Agreed, but also if anyone else was in GH's shoes they'd also occasionally oversimplify a point and say incorrect things if they were up against this level of abuse he faces in this thread on the regular by the same tiny well-protected self-righteous group of bullies. It's unacceptable what people are doing to him here and I've been so fed up with it because the only option GH and others have is to ignore the bullies - which should not be necessary. The bullies should be kicked out. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27071 Posts
Nah y’all need WombaT’s patented Weighted Positive/Negative Voting System. In conjunction with well, something that isn’t the Electoral College I’ll find a better name for it. You get allocated a certain amount of points, you can distribute them how you like. Plus points to a candidate, or minus points. It’s kinda more designed for multi-party democracies, specifically to enable actual preference to be expressed over tactical voting to keep the party you hate out. But hey, while not really suitable for the borderline binary US system, it would let GH vote as he could vote against both Harris and Trump! | ||
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Billyboy
1935 Posts
On November 05 2024 21:49 Jockmcplop wrote: There's definitely some kind of connection between fascism and genocide. Can you commit genocide if you aren't fascist? I don't know that you can. The wiping out of an ethnic group could just happen due to political convenience I suppose but if there's any ideology behind the genocide you're pretty much looking at fascism. So I'd say that genocide is (usually) fascism, but fascism is not genocide. No, Fascism does not just mean bad. Neither does capitalism. First genocide existed long before the 1920's. Next you can look at current China and the USSR and see that communism is completely capable of genocide. Economic systems, political systems, hell religion (or not being religions) does not make evil/bad. That is simply human. This is why you get super evil far left and far right. The best systems require checks and balances so that the wrong person or small group can't seize the power and do evil things. Not to mention that the more power one has more evil they tend to get. This whole "our side is good" thing leads to just a lot of justifying of terrible, awful, horrific behavior. Russia, China, Iran, NK all have very different political systems and different economic systems. What they have in common is brutal dictatorships that are hell bent on not just oppressing their own people but rather as many as possible. On November 05 2024 22:04 Magic Powers wrote: Agreed, but also if anyone else was in GH's shoes they'd also occasionally oversimplify a point and say incorrect things if they were up against this level of abuse he faces in this thread on the regular by the same tiny well-protected self-righteous group of bullies. It's unacceptable what people are doing to him here and I've been so fed up with it because the only option GH and others have is to ignore the bullies - which should not be necessary. The bullies should be kicked out. If they actually kicked out all the bullies you would be gone too. What you want is the people who disagree with you to be kicked out, especially the ones who disagree with you the way you disagree with others. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On November 05 2024 22:18 Billyboy wrote: No, Fascism does not just mean bad. Neither does capitalism. First genocide existed long before the 1920's. Next you can look at current China and the USSR and see that communism is completely capable of genocide. Economic systems, political systems, hell religion (or not being religions) does not make evil/bad. That is simply human. This is why you get super evil far left and far right. The best systems require checks and balances so that the wrong person or small group can't seize the power and do evil things. Not to mention that the more power one has more evil they tend to get. This whole "our side is good" thing leads to just a lot of justifying of terrible, awful, horrific behavior. Russia, China, Iran, NK all have very different political systems and different economic systems. What they have in common is brutal dictatorships that are hell bent on not just oppressing their own people but rather as many as possible. If they actually kicked out all the bullies you would be gone too. What you want is the people who disagree with you to be kicked out, especially the ones who disagree with you the way you disagree with others. In your mind anyone's a bully who has an opposite view to yours. No, there are very few bullies here. But they hold power, and they target the same people all the time. You can agree with me on that without letting your bias shine through. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27071 Posts
On November 05 2024 21:45 Billyboy wrote: It is confusing because this has nothing to do with why fascism is genocide, which is just a completely wrong and nonsensical statement. There are so many bad statements made that people on the "left" feel obliged to defend. If it is bad or worse statement people need to start being against it whether or no matter what "side" they have branded themselves. As to your completely unrelated analogy, if it means stopping a fascist from taking over and trying to swap from a democracy to theocracy with oligarchs they can both bang my wife at the same time. When stakes are high enough you have to make hard choices, there is nothing moralistic about dodging hard questions so you can be condescending. #Cucks4Harris I kid. I did feel it was a rather apt, albeit somewhat crude analogy Ultimately, I somewhat agree with GH’s rationale, some don’t. He’s at least somewhat politically engaged at least. Depending on what form of election, 30-50+% of folks don’t vote amongst most Western democracies, so hes got plenty of company. Hoping for a Harris/Waltz triumph over here anyway. That said if they don’t, my one and only election prediction is you will see a bucketload of moaning analysis and teeth gnashing blaming the left, or Arab Americans for not toeing the line. I can’t even find a bookmaker willing to take a bet on it! | ||
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Billyboy
1935 Posts
On November 05 2024 22:25 Magic Powers wrote: In your mind anyone's a bully who has an opposite view to yours. No, there are very few bullies here. But they hold power, and they target the same people all the time. You can agree with me on that without letting your bias shine through. Nope that is just you projecting. Bullies are people who respond with low or no content posts that are just insults or sarcasm. And I can find a ton of yours if you would really like. On November 05 2024 22:28 WombaT wrote: #Cucks4Harris I kid. I did feel it was a rather apt, albeit somewhat crude analogy Ultimately, I somewhat agree with GH’s rationale, some don’t. He’s at least somewhat politically engaged at least. Depending on what form of election, 30-50+% of folks don’t vote amongst most Western democracies, so hes got plenty of company. Hoping for a Harris/Waltz triumph over here anyway. That said if they don’t, my one and only election prediction is you will see a bucketload of moaning analysis and teeth gnashing blaming the left, or Arab Americans for not toeing the line. I can’t even find a bookmaker willing to take a bet on it! I have no problem with people voting for who they think would be their best person, regardless if they have any chance. I do have a problem with those in democracies who don't vote at all. My frustration (and likely others) is the constant judgement and moralizing. Then it becomes worse when his answer is utopia that he only has a concept of a plan about and wants all the people he relentlessly insults to help him come up with the details. You also got to either hate genocide or not, you can't really really hate it but when your team does it start finding excuses or not even believe what's obviously true. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9885 Posts
On November 05 2024 22:18 Billyboy wrote: No, Fascism does not just mean bad. Neither does capitalism. First genocide existed long before the 1920's. Next you can look at current China and the USSR and see that communism is completely capable of genocide. Economic systems, political systems, hell religion (or not being religions) does not make evil/bad. That is simply human. This is why you get super evil far left and far right. The best systems require checks and balances so that the wrong person or small group can't seize the power and do evil things. Not to mention that the more power one has more evil they tend to get. This whole "our side is good" thing leads to just a lot of justifying of terrible, awful, horrific behavior. Russia, China, Iran, NK all have very different political systems and different economic systems. What they have in common is brutal dictatorships that are hell bent on not just oppressing their own people but rather as many as possible. I have no idea why you are saying this to me, I didn't make the claim that fascism=bad. Did you accidentally quote my post, or did you just completely fail to understand it? Fascism is often based on racial purity, and the designation of 'other' groups to blame for everything. This is what leads to genocide. Its almost a necessary step. The two are linked. | ||
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r00ty
Germany1080 Posts
On November 05 2024 20:45 MJG wrote: I never realised before how much difference there was between voter power in each US state. I've always (and apparently very wrongly) assumed that each state's electoral college representation was more or less even on a per capita basis. I didn't realise the difference was a big as 1 electoral college vote per ~150k people in Wyoming and 1 electoral college vote per ~530k people Florida. That's wild. We are witnessing the last couple of elections that US conservatives even have a chance to win in. Without the electoral college and intensive gerrymandering it would be pretty one sided. That's why they are going crazy and dabble in fascism for the last decade. It's their last chance. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18337 Posts
On November 05 2024 22:40 Jockmcplop wrote: I have no idea why you are saying this to me, I didn't make the claim that fascism=bad. Did you accidentally quote my post, or did you just completely fail to understand it? Fascism is often based on racial purity, and the designation of 'other' groups to blame for everything. This is what leads to genocide. Its almost a necessary step. The two are linked. Fascism is not the only ideology that others. A cow is an animal, but an animal is not (necessarily) a cow. American Colonists genocided their way across two continents. Some of them were religious supremacists, some were racial supremacists and some were just greedy ducks. None of them were fascists, an ideology that only sprung into existence a few hundred years after their deaths. E: if you want a more modern example, the Hutus were racial/tribal supremacists. They were not fascists. Their lack of fascism didn't stop them from genociding Tutsis. | ||
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