|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On November 05 2024 22:35 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 22:25 Magic Powers wrote:On November 05 2024 22:18 Billyboy wrote:On November 05 2024 21:49 Jockmcplop wrote:
There's definitely some kind of connection between fascism and genocide.
Can you commit genocide if you aren't fascist?
I don't know that you can. The wiping out of an ethnic group could just happen due to political convenience I suppose but if there's any ideology behind the genocide you're pretty much looking at fascism.
So I'd say that genocide is (usually) fascism, but fascism is not genocide. No, Fascism does not just mean bad. Neither does capitalism. First genocide existed long before the 1920's. Next you can look at current China and the USSR and see that communism is completely capable of genocide. Economic systems, political systems, hell religion (or not being religions) does not make evil/bad. That is simply human. This is why you get super evil far left and far right. The best systems require checks and balances so that the wrong person or small group can't seize the power and do evil things. Not to mention that the more power one has more evil they tend to get. This whole "our side is good" thing leads to just a lot of justifying of terrible, awful, horrific behavior. Russia, China, Iran, NK all have very different political systems and different economic systems. What they have in common is brutal dictatorships that are hell bent on not just oppressing their own people but rather as many as possible. On November 05 2024 22:04 Magic Powers wrote:On November 05 2024 21:55 Velr wrote:
No... For fucks sake.
Facism is a political system.
Genocide is an action taken by a state or group.
They describe totally diffrent things. Agreed, but also if anyone else was in GH's shoes they'd also occasionally oversimplify a point and say incorrect things if they were up against this level of abuse he faces in this thread on the regular by the same tiny well-protected self-righteous group of bullies. It's unacceptable what people are doing to him here and I've been so fed up with it because the only option GH and others have is to ignore the bullies - which should not be necessary. The bullies should be kicked out. If they actually kicked out all the bullies you would be gone too. What you want is the people who disagree with you to be kicked out, especially the ones who disagree with you the way you disagree with others. In your mind anyone's a bully who has an opposite view to yours. No, there are very few bullies here. But they hold power, and they target the same people all the time. You can agree with me on that without letting your bias shine through. Nope that is just you projecting. Bullies are people who respond with low or no content posts that are just insults or sarcasm. And I can find a ton of yours if you would really like. Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 22:28 WombaT wrote:On November 05 2024 21:45 Billyboy wrote:On November 05 2024 14:31 WombaT wrote:On November 05 2024 14:02 Billyboy wrote:On November 05 2024 13:36 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 05 2024 13:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 05 2024 13:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 05 2024 13:17 KwarK wrote:On November 05 2024 12:27 WombaT wrote:
[quote]
While I frequently accede to your wisdom Kwawk, Rogan’s numbers probably transcend mere maladjusted dipshits. They just do. Spotify didn’t pay the big bucks otherwise
I don’t think this is entirely fair with his historic output, although a fair assessment of some recent pivots. He gave Bernie a platform, indeed I think he endorsed him one time
He can just be wrong, that doesn’t make him a grifter. If he believes his shtick, hey. Dave Rubin or Candace Owens, now there’s some grifters.
I think he’s just shifted from his previous politics to being an avowed supporter of right wing politics, but I see that as a genuine shift rather than jumping on a grift.
...And that's why we have people like GH insisting that voting for Harris is wrong, not because he's right wing but because he's firmly in the perpetually online maladjusted dipshit group. The reason voting for Harris is "wrong" is because supporting genocide is "wrong". That Dems and their supporters have already rationalized their support for genocide pretty much means fascism is winning regardless of the 2024 election outcome. It's obvious to me how Trump winning can lead to fascism, but how does Harris winning also lead to fascism? How is genocide not fascism to you? Genocide is completely separate from fascism, and not only because basically every political spectrum has done it including communist (even right now!) But because it existed long before fascism did. Next Russia is trying to speed run all the possible war crimes including genocide and Trump getting into power increases that one AS WELL AS what is going on in the middle east. And if you are one issue, anti fascism voter, then why would you be against the person "supporting fascism" compared to the actual fascist. And if you think Fascism and genocide are the same thing , then wouldn't you do everything in your power to stop the fascist from taking power of the worlds most powerful army? Red lines are red lines, despite what Barack Obama says Consider this hypothetical. You’ve dude A you really hate, dude B you really dislike but less Someone tells you you’re duty bound to have you wife or s/o banged by one of them. For the greater good. Hey B is slightly less shit Alternatively, you have the option of just leaving your wife or s/o to remain in glorious monogamy, untainted with such sordid machinations. I don’t see why this is so unfathomable to folks. GH considers it a non-negotiable issue, and provided neither party shifts to his position he’s not going to proffer his support to either. In a state where his vote is effectively meaningless anyway. Why is this so confusing? It is confusing because this has nothing to do with why fascism is genocide, which is just a completely wrong and nonsensical statement. There are so many bad statements made that people on the "left" feel obliged to defend. If it is bad or worse statement people need to start being against it whether or no matter what "side" they have branded themselves. As to your completely unrelated analogy, if it means stopping a fascist from taking over and trying to swap from a democracy to theocracy with oligarchs they can both bang my wife at the same time.  When stakes are high enough you have to make hard choices, there is nothing moralistic about dodging hard questions so you can be condescending. #Cucks4Harris I kid. I did feel it was a rather apt, albeit somewhat crude analogy Ultimately, I somewhat agree with GH’s rationale, some don’t. He’s at least somewhat politically engaged at least. Depending on what form of election, 30-50+% of folks don’t vote amongst most Western democracies, so hes got plenty of company. Hoping for a Harris/Waltz triumph over here anyway. That said if they don’t, my one and only election prediction is you will see a bucketload of moaning analysis and teeth gnashing blaming the left, or Arab Americans for not toeing the line. I can’t even find a bookmaker willing to take a bet on it! I have no problem with people voting for who they think would be their best person, regardless if they have any chance. I do have a problem with those in democracies who don't vote at all. My frustration (and likely others) is the constant judgement and moralizing. Then it becomes worse when his answer is utopia that he only has a concept of a plan about and wants all the people he relentlessly insults to help him come up with the details. You also got to either hate genocide or not, you can't really really hate it but when your team does it start finding excuses or not even believe what's obviously true.
Pure insults and sarcasm are exactly the only content you'll find in the comments I'm talking about. You just choose to ignore it because apparently you don't like GH either.
|
Bisutopia19345 Posts
Happy Voting Day Everyone! Just finished voting myself!
|
On November 05 2024 16:04 Jockmcplop wrote:
I have a question for GH about the lesser evil voting.
I'm not trying to catch you out GH, i'm genuinely interested:
Do you think left wingers would be better spending their time getting behind left wing democratic candidates in local politics instead of railing against the democratic party as a whole, in an attempt to make the Dems more left wing regardless of what happens at the top?
It seems to me having a philosophy based almost entirely on rejecting both parties could end up counter productive instead of promoting left wing voices within one of those parties...
I mean this was basically the debate coming out of the 60's. Should the revolutionary left continue their organized mass civil disobedience/direct actions or work within the Democrat party and try to reform them and the country from "the inside" through compromise and lesser evilism.
Joining Democrats "won" (read: Democrats and Republicans joined forces to harass, imprison, outcast, coerce, assassinate, etc the revolutionaries). That got us Democrats pied pipering Trump/fascism into the presidency and rationalizing their own support of genocide.
To the degree that the existing system can be used to serve people's interests, that's where non-reformist reforms come in and may include things like voting for what libs would describe as the "lesser evil" locally. But even those aren't significantly achievable without the accompanying organized mass civil disobedience/direct actions Democrats oppose (and empower Republicans to crackdown even harsher on).
|
Northern Ireland26765 Posts
On November 05 2024 22:45 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 22:40 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 05 2024 22:18 Billyboy wrote:On November 05 2024 21:49 Jockmcplop wrote:
There's definitely some kind of connection between fascism and genocide.
Can you commit genocide if you aren't fascist?
I don't know that you can. The wiping out of an ethnic group could just happen due to political convenience I suppose but if there's any ideology behind the genocide you're pretty much looking at fascism.
So I'd say that genocide is (usually) fascism, but fascism is not genocide. No, Fascism does not just mean bad. Neither does capitalism. First genocide existed long before the 1920's. Next you can look at current China and the USSR and see that communism is completely capable of genocide. Economic systems, political systems, hell religion (or not being religions) does not make evil/bad. That is simply human. This is why you get super evil far left and far right. The best systems require checks and balances so that the wrong person or small group can't seize the power and do evil things. Not to mention that the more power one has more evil they tend to get. This whole "our side is good" thing leads to just a lot of justifying of terrible, awful, horrific behavior. Russia, China, Iran, NK all have very different political systems and different economic systems. What they have in common is brutal dictatorships that are hell bent on not just oppressing their own people but rather as many as possible. I have no idea why you are saying this to me, I didn't make the claim that fascism=bad. Did you accidentally quote my post, or did you just completely fail to understand it? Fascism is often based on racial purity, and the designation of 'other' groups to blame for everything. This is what leads to genocide. Its almost a necessary step. The two are linked. Fascism is not the only ideology that others. A cow is an animal, but an animal is not (necessarily) a cow. American Colonists genocided their way across two continents. Some of them were religious supremacists, some were racial supremacists and some were just greedy ducks. None of them were fascists, an ideology that only sprung into existence a few hundred years after their deaths. E: if you want a more modern example, the Hutus were racial/tribal supremacists. They were not fascists. Their lack of fascism didn't stop them from genociding Tutsis.
Aye and even within the ‘big 3’ of 20th Century Fascism there were pretty damn big differences.
The Italian variant wasn’t lacking in certain racial overtones, but less so than the German.
In a crude sense they could just invoke the glory of ‘their’ Roman Empire and history there and tap into that. The Germans didn’t have an equivalent analogue so I think had to create a justification for it, which then made it much more racially constructed.
The Japanese hated Communism to a degree second only to the Germans, but they just hated Communism for the most part, and indeed who were the Communists in their vicinity. It was much less bolted on to a Jewish metanarrative.
Hell the Japanese culture in the lead-in to WW2 era Japan is pretty alien, which rather informed their form of Fascism. I’d wager the culture of 18th/19th century Europe would be a much more comfortable fit for most of us if we travelled there than the Japan of less than a hundred years ago.
|
On November 05 2024 20:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Today, the United States could decide to just. be. fucking. done. with. Donald. Trump.
I put in my vote to this effect 2 hours ago. We have to deliver PA for Harris. Let's end Trump's political career right here.
|
It's muggy and dreary out. Perfect day for some democratic tomfoolery.
|
Northern Ireland26765 Posts
On November 05 2024 22:50 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 16:04 Jockmcplop wrote:
I have a question for GH about the lesser evil voting.
I'm not trying to catch you out GH, i'm genuinely interested:
Do you think left wingers would be better spending their time getting behind left wing democratic candidates in local politics instead of railing against the democratic party as a whole, in an attempt to make the Dems more left wing regardless of what happens at the top?
It seems to me having a philosophy based almost entirely on rejecting both parties could end up counter productive instead of promoting left wing voices within one of those parties... I mean this was basically the debate coming out of the 60's. Should the revolutionary left continue their organized mass civil disobedience/direct actions or work within the Democrat party and try to reform them and the country from "the inside" through compromise and lesser evilism. Joining Democrats "won" (read: Democrats and Republicans joined forces to harass, imprison, outcast, coerce, assassinate, etc the revolutionaries). That got us Democrats pied pipering Trump/fascism into the presidency and rationalizing their own support of genocide. To the degree that the existing system can be used to serve people's interests, that's where non-reformist reforms come in and may include things like voting for what libs would describe as the "lesser evil" locally. But even those aren't significantly achievable without the accompanying organized mass civil disobedience/direct actions Democrats oppose (and empower Republicans to crackdown even harsher on).
I’d be interested to see counter-examples where this tactic worked.
I can imagine they exist, but only in more pluralist democracies where the genuine left have some political party they can call home.
We both have the misfortune to dwell in borderline 2 party states, and in such confines it seems to just not work.
It actually somewhat preceded him but hey he won so let’s take Blair winning in 97, and dropping things like a codified link between unions and the party. Taking the labour out of Labour if you will.
We’re not far off 30 years of Labour not really being a left wing party. The one time they did have a left wing leader in this time the centre did their utmost to defang him.
Of course, when we’ve got a nice wee centrist back in leadership it’s back to ‘you have to vote for us because the Tories are Satan and if you don’t you’re a bad person’
It’s remarkable how the Tories cease being Satan and you should vote for Labour to keep them out if there’s a lefty in charge eh?
|
Friends in NE and Central Ohio reported crazy lines first thing this morning. Already voted early here in Virginia.
|
It's absurd to me that people believing that a genocide against arabs and muslims, aided by US weapons is happening, and still would rather have a president that calls muslims "criminal vermin" and wants to take their citizenship, deport them.. while being open to peace through ethnic cleansing in the Westbank..and a good friend of netanyahu.
All that while the US is responsible for countless deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan... in the campaign "against Terror" started by GW Bush (R)
But TikTok Propaganda is just too powerfu and it says "Vote the putin puppet that destabilzes the west"
|
On November 05 2024 23:07 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 20:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Today, the United States could decide to just. be. fucking. done. with. Donald. Trump. I put in my vote to this effect 2 hours ago. We have to deliver PA for Harris. Let's end Trump's political career right here.
Fuck yeah
I voted a week or two ago, but I'm in New Jersey.
|
On November 05 2024 23:13 KT_Elwood wrote:
It's absurd to me that people believing that a genocide against arabs and muslims, aided by US weapons is happening, and still would rather have a president that calls muslims "criminal vermin" and wants to take their citizenship, deport them.. while being open to peace through ethnic cleansing in the Westbank..and a good friend of netanyahu.
All that while the US is responsible for countless deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan... in the campaign "against Terror" started by GW Bush (R)
But TikTok Propaganda is just too powerfu and it says "Vote the putin puppet that destabilzes the west"
You did not mention that Clinton was as much of a war monger as anyone, and Obama was an expert at dodging foreign policy scandals. I have not herd about the US limiting the military support for Israel under either of them. Democrats are no saints, and Trump claims he wants to limit US military involvement abroad. Clinton and Obama are much more likable than Trump, so foreigners cared less about holding them accountable as presidents.
|
On November 05 2024 23:13 KT_Elwood wrote:
It's absurd to me that people believing that a genocide against arabs and muslims, aided by US weapons is happening, and still would rather have a president that calls muslims "criminal vermin" and wants to take their citizenship, deport them.. while being open to peace through ethnic cleansing in the Westbank..and a good friend of netanyahu.
All that while the US is responsible for countless deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan... in the campaign "against Terror" started by GW Bush (R)
But TikTok Propaganda is just too powerfu and it says "Vote the putin puppet that destabilzes the west"
GH is not voting for Trump. If he wanted him in power, he'd vote for him. So it's wrong to say "he'd rather have Trump". It's just completely wrong to frame it that way. He's abstaining, and so are many other people who oppose the genocide in Gaza. Say what you will about that strategy, you can't say people aren't acting according to their values. GH is not a hypocrite in any meaningful capacity.
The recent developments in Gaza prove this point. Israel has now ended UN aid to Gaza. They've also not met the US demands of supplies into Gaza. The US doesn't appear to care and just keeps supporting Israel. This is happening under Biden, and it'll continue to go like that under Harris.
GH is being rational in his own right. You just don't like his strategic choice. In terms of values, he's spot on.
|
Northern Ireland26765 Posts
On November 05 2024 23:13 KT_Elwood wrote:
It's absurd to me that people believing that a genocide against arabs and muslims, aided by US weapons is happening, and still would rather have a president that calls muslims "criminal vermin" and wants to take their citizenship, deport them.. while being open to peace through ethnic cleansing in the Westbank..and a good friend of netanyahu.
All that while the US is responsible for countless deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan... in the campaign "against Terror" started by GW Bush (R)
But TikTok Propaganda is just too powerfu and it says "Vote the putin puppet that destabilzes the west"
I think it’s, in ways considerably worse but I don’t think this particular incarnation of the GOP wages the kind of wars that that of 20 years ago do.
1) They don’t think America should be the world’s police. Indeed they don’t really like the idea of being part of the police thru NATO
2) These things are cyclical. Vietnam wasn’t hugely unpopular, until it was. Then the US didn’t get involved in a similar conflict to a similar degree for what, 40 years? Less Afghanistan, Iraq certainly had a ton of pushback immediately, but it wasn’t a cripplingly unpopular conflict. Until they both were. I couldn’t say how long it lasts but I think we’re in a sorta moratorium period on a conflict of that kind.
Much of your other points, yeah I agree with them. Except well, the GOP aren’t your friends, they’ve shown this. The Dems are meant to be your friends. There’s a different level of expectation.
I honestly don’t think you’ll see many single-issue voters who really care about the current Israeli conflict, from a Palestine-sympathetic viewpoint voting for Republicans. I think it’s certainly possible you’ll see people not going out to vote for the Dems, which ends up with a similar result but I don’t think comes from the same place.
Democratic policy isn’t a hypothetical either I mean, they’re in power, right now.
I’m not sure what policy would actually keep both Israel and Palestine fans, or neutral humanitarian types happy simultaneously, so that’s a tricky bloody problem to solve politically.
Me personally I’d take a guarantee of Israel’s right to exist, international advocacy to that effect, and a complete cessation of military aid, with some guarantees as to the conduct of the war(s) henceforth.
But that’s me, I’d wager almost 100% that that is way, way too extreme for the pro-Israel crowd to stomach.
|
I love vote by mail. Election day is today and it's just another Tuesday for me. I had my shit filled out and mailed two weeks ago.
More states should embrace vote by mail and more Americans should take part in it. The less we rely on one chaotic day where any number of things can go wrong, the better off I think our elections will be.
|
Northern Ireland26765 Posts
On November 05 2024 23:28 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 23:13 KT_Elwood wrote:
It's absurd to me that people believing that a genocide against arabs and muslims, aided by US weapons is happening, and still would rather have a president that calls muslims "criminal vermin" and wants to take their citizenship, deport them.. while being open to peace through ethnic cleansing in the Westbank..and a good friend of netanyahu.
All that while the US is responsible for countless deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan... in the campaign "against Terror" started by GW Bush (R)
But TikTok Propaganda is just too powerfu and it says "Vote the putin puppet that destabilzes the west"
You did not mention that Clinton was as much of a war monger as anyone, and Obama was an expert at dodging foreign policy scandals. I have not herd about the US limiting the military support for Israel under either of them. Democrats are no saints, and Trump claims he wants to limit US military involvement abroad. Clinton and Obama are much more likable than Trump, so foreigners cared less about holding them accountable as presidents.
Was Clinton a particular warmonger?
Obama inherited most of his, although yes I don’t think he was particularly a man of peace and love.
The problem with Trump is a 1-2 punch, it’s not specifically about him limiting US military entanglements. Which, in fairness I think he’s shown a record on.
Us pesky foreigners (well some of us, or well, me) don’t like his foreign policy because he doesn’t like us. He doesn’t like multilateral institutions, he doesn’t like genuine collaboration, everything is transactional and antagonistic. Never mind him mysteriously aligning with Russia on so much.
Now, as I’ve conceded, I don’t think he’s a warmonger, that’s good. He’s also shorn away everything that even ‘US skeptics’ like myself can kinda concede, at least leveraging that power in some attempt for a wider, collective good, even if often flawed.
The whole ‘leader of the free world’ thing. Sure there’s a lot of myth there too, there’s also tangible stuff.
They helped rebuild Europe, Japan post WW2 being one example.
Hell Bill Clinton is a fucking legend over here, IIRC the biggest recorded crowd ever was him turning on the Christmas lights and giving a speech, because he and his administration wielded their leverage to help get peace over the line.
A Trump foreign policy doesn’t do any of this stuff, indeed it shits on bodies who might aspire to it.
|
Northern Ireland26765 Posts
On November 05 2024 23:46 Vindicare605 wrote:
I love vote by mail. Election day is today and it's just another Tuesday for me. I had my shit filled out and mailed two weeks ago.
More states should embrace vote by mail and more Americans should take part in it. The less we rely on one chaotic day where any number of things can go wrong, the better off I think our elections will be.
It sounds much less painless.
My partner’s sister is an American citizen having been birthed there and had hers sent off donkeys ago. Granted she’s in a state so blue even the Smurfs would find it a bit much
Just seems a better way to do things frankly.
In my ‘dystopian’ world everyone would get some kind of state bequeathed biometric smartphone locked to their signature to do things like voting, or access their medical records or all sorts, or apply for social security or basically all of those kind of things.
|
Every swiss person of age just gets the ballot sent home and have to return it by mail (or in person) with the return envelope.
Thats literally it. No need for anything more complicated and no need to make it vulnerable to cyber attacks.
We do have citizen registers in our cities/towns/villages tho. Iirc thats not a thing in the US.
|
On November 05 2024 22:40 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 22:18 Billyboy wrote:On November 05 2024 21:49 Jockmcplop wrote:
There's definitely some kind of connection between fascism and genocide.
Can you commit genocide if you aren't fascist?
I don't know that you can. The wiping out of an ethnic group could just happen due to political convenience I suppose but if there's any ideology behind the genocide you're pretty much looking at fascism.
So I'd say that genocide is (usually) fascism, but fascism is not genocide. No, Fascism does not just mean bad. Neither does capitalism. First genocide existed long before the 1920's. Next you can look at current China and the USSR and see that communism is completely capable of genocide. Economic systems, political systems, hell religion (or not being religions) does not make evil/bad. That is simply human. This is why you get super evil far left and far right. The best systems require checks and balances so that the wrong person or small group can't seize the power and do evil things. Not to mention that the more power one has more evil they tend to get. This whole "our side is good" thing leads to just a lot of justifying of terrible, awful, horrific behavior. Russia, China, Iran, NK all have very different political systems and different economic systems. What they have in common is brutal dictatorships that are hell bent on not just oppressing their own people but rather as many as possible. I have no idea why you are saying this to me, I didn't make the claim that fascism=bad. Did you accidentally quote my post, or did you just completely fail to understand it? Fascism is often based on racial purity, and the designation of 'other' groups to blame for everything. This is what leads to genocide. Its almost a necessary step. The two are linked.
It feels like you didn't read my whole post and just fixated on the one part you did not like. I was just guessing on why you think they are the same when there are plenty (maybe more or the same I have no added it up) of genocides that have nothing to do with fascism.
On November 05 2024 22:50 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 22:35 Billyboy wrote:On November 05 2024 22:25 Magic Powers wrote:On November 05 2024 22:18 Billyboy wrote:On November 05 2024 21:49 Jockmcplop wrote:
There's definitely some kind of connection between fascism and genocide.
Can you commit genocide if you aren't fascist?
I don't know that you can. The wiping out of an ethnic group could just happen due to political convenience I suppose but if there's any ideology behind the genocide you're pretty much looking at fascism.
So I'd say that genocide is (usually) fascism, but fascism is not genocide. No, Fascism does not just mean bad. Neither does capitalism. First genocide existed long before the 1920's. Next you can look at current China and the USSR and see that communism is completely capable of genocide. Economic systems, political systems, hell religion (or not being religions) does not make evil/bad. That is simply human. This is why you get super evil far left and far right. The best systems require checks and balances so that the wrong person or small group can't seize the power and do evil things. Not to mention that the more power one has more evil they tend to get. This whole "our side is good" thing leads to just a lot of justifying of terrible, awful, horrific behavior. Russia, China, Iran, NK all have very different political systems and different economic systems. What they have in common is brutal dictatorships that are hell bent on not just oppressing their own people but rather as many as possible. On November 05 2024 22:04 Magic Powers wrote:On November 05 2024 21:55 Velr wrote:
No... For fucks sake.
Facism is a political system.
Genocide is an action taken by a state or group.
They describe totally diffrent things. Agreed, but also if anyone else was in GH's shoes they'd also occasionally oversimplify a point and say incorrect things if they were up against this level of abuse he faces in this thread on the regular by the same tiny well-protected self-righteous group of bullies. It's unacceptable what people are doing to him here and I've been so fed up with it because the only option GH and others have is to ignore the bullies - which should not be necessary. The bullies should be kicked out. If they actually kicked out all the bullies you would be gone too. What you want is the people who disagree with you to be kicked out, especially the ones who disagree with you the way you disagree with others. In your mind anyone's a bully who has an opposite view to yours. No, there are very few bullies here. But they hold power, and they target the same people all the time. You can agree with me on that without letting your bias shine through. Nope that is just you projecting. Bullies are people who respond with low or no content posts that are just insults or sarcasm. And I can find a ton of yours if you would really like. On November 05 2024 22:28 WombaT wrote:On November 05 2024 21:45 Billyboy wrote:On November 05 2024 14:31 WombaT wrote:On November 05 2024 14:02 Billyboy wrote:On November 05 2024 13:36 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 05 2024 13:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 05 2024 13:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 05 2024 13:17 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
...And that's why we have people like GH insisting that voting for Harris is wrong, not because he's right wing but because he's firmly in the perpetually online maladjusted dipshit group. The reason voting for Harris is "wrong" is because supporting genocide is "wrong". That Dems and their supporters have already rationalized their support for genocide pretty much means fascism is winning regardless of the 2024 election outcome. It's obvious to me how Trump winning can lead to fascism, but how does Harris winning also lead to fascism? How is genocide not fascism to you? Genocide is completely separate from fascism, and not only because basically every political spectrum has done it including communist (even right now!) But because it existed long before fascism did. Next Russia is trying to speed run all the possible war crimes including genocide and Trump getting into power increases that one AS WELL AS what is going on in the middle east. And if you are one issue, anti fascism voter, then why would you be against the person "supporting fascism" compared to the actual fascist. And if you think Fascism and genocide are the same thing , then wouldn't you do everything in your power to stop the fascist from taking power of the worlds most powerful army? Red lines are red lines, despite what Barack Obama says Consider this hypothetical. You’ve dude A you really hate, dude B you really dislike but less Someone tells you you’re duty bound to have you wife or s/o banged by one of them. For the greater good. Hey B is slightly less shit Alternatively, you have the option of just leaving your wife or s/o to remain in glorious monogamy, untainted with such sordid machinations. I don’t see why this is so unfathomable to folks. GH considers it a non-negotiable issue, and provided neither party shifts to his position he’s not going to proffer his support to either. In a state where his vote is effectively meaningless anyway. Why is this so confusing? It is confusing because this has nothing to do with why fascism is genocide, which is just a completely wrong and nonsensical statement. There are so many bad statements made that people on the "left" feel obliged to defend. If it is bad or worse statement people need to start being against it whether or no matter what "side" they have branded themselves. As to your completely unrelated analogy, if it means stopping a fascist from taking over and trying to swap from a democracy to theocracy with oligarchs they can both bang my wife at the same time. When stakes are high enough you have to make hard choices, there is nothing moralistic about dodging hard questions so you can be condescending. #Cucks4Harris I kid. I did feel it was a rather apt, albeit somewhat crude analogy Ultimately, I somewhat agree with GH’s rationale, some don’t. He’s at least somewhat politically engaged at least. Depending on what form of election, 30-50+% of folks don’t vote amongst most Western democracies, so hes got plenty of company. Hoping for a Harris/Waltz triumph over here anyway. That said if they don’t, my one and only election prediction is you will see a bucketload of moaning analysis and teeth gnashing blaming the left, or Arab Americans for not toeing the line. I can’t even find a bookmaker willing to take a bet on it! I have no problem with people voting for who they think would be their best person, regardless if they have any chance. I do have a problem with those in democracies who don't vote at all. My frustration (and likely others) is the constant judgement and moralizing. Then it becomes worse when his answer is utopia that he only has a concept of a plan about and wants all the people he relentlessly insults to help him come up with the details. You also got to either hate genocide or not, you can't really really hate it but when your team does it start finding excuses or not even believe what's obviously true. Pure insults and sarcasm are exactly the only content you'll find in the comments I'm talking about. You just choose to ignore it because apparently you don't like GH either.
That is my point, you either have to be against all of it or none of it. I don't like it when "innocents" get insta attacked by mobs. But when people who are jerks are confronted by jerks, why would I only be mad at one of the jerks?
GreenHorizons is far from the most ill treated person, he has way more people standing up for him than he should based on how he treats people. I also don't feel bad for Blackjack when he is fighting with a bunch of people, because he is also not a victim but an active participant. Maybe in the past he claimed victimhood but in recent times he seems OK with the tit for tat. When I guy like you who is a absolute jerk to a whole bunch of people gets attacked back, why would I shed a tear?
I personally don't care much about what the rules are, I just believe they should be applied to all equally regardless of their side. So if the mods want to warn/ban those who post the no content insults, it would be fine. If they want to let it all go, great. I only get frustrated when certain people get a WAY longer leash than others.
|
Voted for Stein in PA this morning. Very simple message for y'all. People can vote for who they want, and have their own theory of change that's different from yours. To both sides, it's not the end of the world regardless of the outcome. Turning off all news for the day and doing some work now <3
|
On November 05 2024 23:10 farvacola wrote:
Friends in NE and Central Ohio reported crazy lines first thing this morning. Already voted early here in Virginia.
It is crazy how it is allowed to make it more difficult to vote (like less stations) in certain parts than others, even in the same state. And how the person who picks where it all goes is partisan. It should be the same for all people in the US, you guys need some impartial federal group that runs these elections.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
