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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On February 16 2024 18:06 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2024 14:52 BlackJack wrote:I checked and it looks like they did cite their source for that figure in the article. The reason your number is different is likely because you're including everyone that was killed and the poll specifically asked about unarmed people that were killed. How many unarmed black people with a moustache got killed by police using knifes on a tuesday afternoon in april?
You're being facetious for its own sake. Obviously there is a big distinction between an armed suspect and an unarmed suspect and it is fair to look at them separately.
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On February 16 2024 13:23 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2024 10:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 16 2024 07:58 Vivax wrote:
There‘s no middle ground in Florida, there‘s beaches, and then there’s trails of people with maga hats wading through the bayou. That's some marvelously hilarious imagery hahahaha. Thank you for that. On February 16 2024 06:07 BlackJack wrote:On February 15 2024 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 15 2024 19:58 BlackJack wrote:On February 15 2024 19:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 15 2024 18:32 BlackJack wrote:On February 15 2024 18:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 15 2024 12:41 BlackJack wrote:On February 15 2024 11:23 Fleetfeet wrote:
[quote]
I love that you simultaneously mock people for believing what media has told them AND just straight lie to your misled friends asking arguably legitimate questions. I can relate, though I will usually follow with an "I'm fucking with you. They might be homophobes but not the "form a lynch mob" sense, just the usual "think less of you from a safe distance" sense." Don’t worry, my sarcasm picks up better in real life than it does on here. If you think this is an arguably legitimate question then it sounds like you’ve bought into the negative trope about Florida as much as they have. If Governor DeSantis's anti-LGBTQ+, anti-DEI, anti-woke rhetoric is taken seriously; If his Florida election support and approval ratings are considered; If the Orlando gay nightclub mass shooting (Pulse) is remembered; If advocacy groups are cautioning the LGBTQ+ community about coming to Florida + Show Spoiler +...Then I'm not surprised that people might be concerned. I should clarify, I don't find it surprising either. The last few years should tell us that all kinds of people have irrational fears about all kinds of things when they get sucked into a media echo chamber that loves to sensationalize and terrify people for ratings and profit. Why do you consider mass shootings and anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric from the governor to merely be media sensationalism that doesn't warrant legitimate concern for one's safety? Why is it irrational for LGBTQ+ people to think twice before traveling to Florida, when DeSantis's hate has so much support in his state and when advocacy groups are advising their communities based on actual legislation and discrimination they experience? Because a one-off mass shooting and "anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric" are pretty irrelevant regarding whether somewhere is safe to visit. Yesterday there was an attempted mass shooting at some church in Texas. You wouldn't say Texas is unsafe for Christians. Anti-LGBT hate speech is kind of a vague term and encompasses a lot of things, including Dave Chappelle telling jokes. Do you have any particular example of the governor's rhetoric you feel incites violence towards LGBT folk? Dave Chappelle isn't an elected politician governing an entire state, and I don't know enough about the Texas situation to comment on it. DeSantis's rhetoric isn't hollow; it's led to several anti-LGBTQ+ laws that perpetuate discrimination (and I'm of the opinion that increased discrimination enables violence against marginalized groups, and we know that the LGBTQ+ community is constantly being assaulted - or worse - for merely existing). The previous source I just shared with you has these particular examples: Since 2021, under the leadership of Governor Ron DeSantis, the state has seen a significant erosion in LGBT, especially transgender, rights.[3] In June 2021, a bill was passed preventing transgender women and girls from participating in female sports in schools.[4] In April 2023, Florida LGBT advocacy group Equality Florida issued a travel advisory for LGBT people to avoid visiting or moving to the state.[5][6] The following May, the Human Rights Campaign signed on to the travel advisory, citing legislation recently signed by Governor DeSantis, while stopping short of calling for a boycott of the state.[7]
In May 2023, several bills were signed by DeSantis, which prohibited access to hormone replacement therapy for transgender minors and created barriers to accessing hormone replacement therapy for adults, including banning insurance coverage for such treatments and requiring a physician to administer the treatment rather than a nurse practitioner.[8] Furthermore, the bills allow for transgender individuals using a restroom consistent with their gender identity in a public building to be charged with criminal trespass,[9] expand the Parental Rights in Education Act,[10] enable medical practitioners to deny service based on personal belief,[11] and restrict "adult live performances" anywhere a child might be present (notably targeting drag performances, as claimed by DeSantis).[10] ...
Since July 1, 2023,[101] it is illegal for a trans person at any state school, state university, or government building (e.g., at a beach or airport), to use any bathroom or changing facility consistent with their gender identity.[9] Each institution must place gender labels on its bathrooms and establish internal "disciplinary procedures" for its own members (faculty, staff, students, inmates, etc.) who enter the bathroom forbidden to them.[101] An authority figure at the institution who spots someone using the bathroom for the "opposite sex" may ask the person to "depart". If the accused person doesn't depart and doesn't have an official status at the institution, they can be charged with criminal trespass.[102]
On August 23, for Florida's 28 public community and state colleges, the Florida Board of Education approved a disciplinary procedure: employees who enter the bathroom forbidden to them can be fired. (This procedure does not affect Florida's state universities, which are in a different system.)[103] ...
On October 18, 2023, the Florida Board of Education voted to apply a similar restriction on bathroom use at private college and university buildings, including at any student housing run by those schools. The schools must prove their compliance by April 1, 2024.[101] ...
In December 2022, undercover agents of DeSantis' administration attended a drag performance in Orlando to determine whether the event was violating state obscenity laws, especially if minors were present. The undercover agents found no wrongdoing, and that the venue did not violate state obscenity or decency laws.[37] However, the state filed a complaint against the Orlando Philharmonic Plaza Foundation, the organizer of the event, claiming that these laws were violated anyways.[38]
In May 2023, Governor Ron DeSantis signed a bill to ban "adult live performances" anywhere a minor might view them, under criminal penalty.[39][40] Though the law does not explicitly name "drag shows" as a target, DeSantis said the law was about "drag shows" when he signed the bill.[10] On June 23, a judge issued a preliminary injunction against the bill, preventing its enforcement during a pending legal challenge, on the basis that not all drag performances are obscene and that current obscenity laws provide enough protection to minors.[41] Though the state appealed the preliminary injunction, the U.S. Supreme Court decided not to interfere with it.[42] ...
The [Florida] guidelines say that transgender youth under 18 should not be treated with puberty blockers, hormone therapy, or gender confirming surgeries (though surgery was already generally not provided to minors), excluding treatment for intersex minors. A memo stated that social transition "should not be a treatment option for children or adolescents." This contradicted the global medical consensus as reflected in the WPATH Standards of Care.[120] Most major medical organizations, including the U.S Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), and international bodies such as The Endocrine Society, opposed Florida's proposal.[121][122][123] ...
In August 2022, Florida, citing state-issued guidance against gender affirming care ("widely debunked", according to the UK's Independent), began a rule change process to institute bans on social transition and gender-affirming healthcare for trans youth and a requirement for any adult seeking gender-affirming care to receive approval from the Florida Board of Medicine at least 24 hours in advance.[124] ...
On October 28, 2022, Florida's Board of Medicine passed a motion to ban all gender-affirming healthcare for minors, including puberty blockers, hormones, and surgeries.[125][126] ... On October 31, 2022, the Florida Medical Board implemented the new rule that requiring a 24 hour waiting period for adults before they can undergo sexual reassignment surgery and to ban minors from any gender-affirming healthcare.[130] On November 4, 2022, the new rule was approved by the Florida Board of Medicine. ...
In April 2023, both houses of the Florida state legislature passed a bill codifying the ban on gender affirming care for minors, and allowing the state to modify or nullify parental custody agreements from other states if the child involved is allowed access to or is “threatened with” being allowed access to gender affirming care.[132] ...
On March 28, 2022, Governor of Florida Ron DeSantis signed the Parental Rights in Education Act,[156] often referred to as "Don't Say Gay" by its opponents.[157][158] The Florida Legislature had passed it earlier that month. The law took effect on July 1, 2022.[159] It applied from kindergarten through grade 3. On May 17, 2023, DeSantis signed a separate bill that expanded the restrictions to older students.[10] Here's the link again, for convenience: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Florida#:~:text=Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and,Court's decision in Lawrence v The Wiki goes into a lot more detail than just what's presented here, but this is a start. DeSantis isn't just talking the bigoted talk; he's also walking the bigoted walk. It's certainly enough to legitimize concerns for safety, which was what you rejected. My friends aren't trans minors trying to play girls sports or get hormone therapy while on vacation. Even if they were they would just not be able to do that as opposed to having some threat to their personal safety. I take it your argument is somehow that all the crazy Florida men high on bath salts and fresh off of wrasslin' gators will somehow think "My governor doesn't want biological males to play women's sports so that means I need to lynch some gays." But since I'm from Florida I'll offer some insight into the politics/geography of the state. You see, the areas where people go to vacation are not MAGA country. In fact they are deep blue. My home county (Broward county) went for Biden 64-34. Miami, Palm Beach, Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville, all went for Biden. Culturally you'd have a hard time telling if you are in one of these places vs say San Diego or Los Angeles. These are the places people go to on vacation and you're probably more likely to get assaulted for wearing a MAGA hat than for being LGBT. If you vacation to Florida to go to a small hick town in the middle of the state without any beachs and only swamps, I'd probably advise you not to go regardless if you're LGBT or not. Do your trans friends go to the bathroom? I'm not saying that LGBTQ+ people are consistently getting lynched all over Florida, and I think that's a bar placed way too high. You just hand-waved away all the actual legislation and discrimination that the LGBTQ+ community might need to deal with in Florida, pushed by DeSantis and other conservative leaders in that state, by saying that since the trees aren't full of gay people and some areas can be inclusive in spite of the anti-inclusive laws, it's therefore irrational to worry about visiting Florida as a trans person. I agree with you that an important factor is whether the person is in a blue/liberal/tolerant area or in a red/conservative/intolerant area, but I feel like discriminatory legislation and a governor who's actively considering them as second-class citizens are still sufficient enough to cause reason for pause, even if it's probably not a life-threatening scenario. I handwaved away your list of legislation because very little of it applies to tourists. None of it even applies to the vast majority of LGBT people that aren't trans. Whether someone wants to have pause over visiting an area is up to them. Some people might have pause going to Cabo San Lucas or Cancún over fear of the drug cartels. Most people consider tourist/resort areas generally safe. Nothing is perfectly safe. At the end of the day it's all subjective. If someone told me to not visit Puerto Vallarta because a Mexican might lop my head off I'd consider that ignorant and borderline offensive even if Mexico does have drug cartels that might lop peoples heads off. But there is reason to believe that people's perceptions on the risk of certain things are warped and I'd bet the media pushing fear and sensationalism is the main culprit. For example, a poll asked "How many unarmed black men do you think are killed by Police each year." Over half of those identifying as very liberal thought the number was 1,000 or greater. The actual number was 27. During COVID Gallup asked what % of people that get COVID need to be hospitalized. Over half of Democrats thought the likelihood was 30% of greater. The correct answer was <1%. So people should at least try to be aware that their suspected risk of something may be off by a factor of 30x or 50x.
I'm not interested in being distracted by the red herrings of "But What About Mexico" or "But What About Black People Killed By Cops". We're talking about Florida and the LGBTQ+ community. Multiple human rights advocacy groups have issued travel advisories to the state because of DeSantis and the huge list of discriminatory laws treating the LGBTQ+ community as second-class citizens. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to hand-wave away all the rules that persecute them, but I'll happily accept how your statement on the issue has progressed from "it's an irrational thought" to "it's all subjective".
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A reminder that police don't have to report the people they kill, so any attempt at actual numbers is guess work.
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Trump is taking loss after loss in the courts in 2024. From his civil trials alone, he owes like half a billion dollars total, from the business fraud to the defamation of one of his rape victims. And he still has nearly 100 criminal charges against him. He's going to be very busy this year; let's hope he doesn't end it by winning the presidential election.
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On February 16 2024 01:33 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2024 16:34 Acrofales wrote:On February 15 2024 16:25 RvB wrote:
The housing market is a textbook case of government failure. Supply is artificially restricted by excessive zoning laws and at the same time demand is subsided via things like rent control and tax breaks for home ownership. Markets can certainly fail but the housing market is not a good example. Zoning laws are "artificial restrictions"? Do you agree that space on land is a limited resource? If so, then it is a natural restriction. Zoning just defines other uses for land as well, and restricts the land available for housing further, but if we let urban sprawl all over Central Park, Yellowstone, prime farmland or other natural resources better used for other purposes we'd still have a housing crisis. There's plenty of land *currently* available for building houses under the current zoning laws. You could build apartment blocks instead of single story homes. You could revitalize deteriorating areas (of which the US has plenty). You could use housing zones for housing rather than each house having a private swimming pool. You could restrict second home ownership rules. But while zoning is often arbitrary and incoherent, the mere existence of zoning rules is not an artificial limitation, it's simply a consequence of a very natural limitation. Excessive zoning laws is what I said. Zoning laws also include regulations concerning things like density and height. Apartment blocks aren't allowed on land zoned for single family housing. Zoning is useful since you don't want heavy industry in the middle of a residential area but currently zoning laws in most developed countries are far too restrictive. For instance, in NL people often argue we don't have enough space to build new housing but 70% of the land is zoned for agricultural use. Trying to change it from agricultural to residential takes years and is very difficult. Yet demand for land zoned for residential use is so much higher than for agricultural use that if the same plot of land changes from agricultural to residential the value increases by a factor of 10. And then there are all the other rules like density, height, how many parking spots are required, how much space a building is allowed to take, etc. Often the rules make sense in isolation but taken together it's a mess and massively increases costs
I may have posted this before but one of my favorite stories I have heard about since moving here is the story of a man that tried to turn his laundromat into an 8 story, 75 unit housing complex. The Planning Commission forced him to undertake a study to determine if the laundromat was "historically significant."
So he spent $23,000 hiring historians that produced a 137 page report that determined, no, it's not historically significant. It's a laundromat. Then the Planning Commission voted again to delay the project indefinitely, this time to study the impact the buildings shadows might make on an adjacent school playground. lol
This meme is among the top all time posts on the SF Bay Area subreddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/o50myp/bay_area_landlords_be_like/
My understanding from a podcast I listed to a few months ago is that construction is one of the few industries that has not gotten more productive/efficient as time has gone on and technology has improved. I think one of the most shocking infographics I have seen was the comparison of the cost of the suicide nets they build around the golden gate bridge to the cost of the bridge itself:
![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/v4j8x3ohgrob1.jpg)
$700M for the entire bridge vs $400M for just some nets to go around it seems crazy. Although I'm sure construction has also become exponentially safer than it was 100 years ago when some robber baron would throw poor immigrant lives at a project until it was completed. So again, perspective is needed here because certain practices have been reined in a lot from the days children would be working 12 hour shifts in the factories.
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Turns out there's a way to express one's opposition to Biden's support of Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign through voting "uncommitted" in Michigan's primary
Something people may want to check if they have anything similar available in their state. Literally 0 pressure to vote for Biden in the primary so anyone can do it (if their state lets them).
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On February 17 2024 19:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Turns out there's a way to express one's opposition to Biden's support of Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign through voting "uncommitted" in Michigan's primary https://twitter.com/Listen2michigan/status/1758514217538216405Something people may want to check if they have anything similar available in their state. Literally 0 pressure to vote for Biden in the primary so anyone can do it (if their state lets them).
I think this is a reasonably good compromise, as it makes your voice heard during the primary without automatically helping Trump during the general election.
On February 17 2024 15:11 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2024 12:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Trump is taking loss after loss in the courts in 2024. From his civil trials alone, he owes like half a billion dollars total, from the business fraud to the defamation of one of his rape victims. And he still has nearly 100 criminal charges against him. He's going to be very busy this year; let's hope he doesn't end it by winning the presidential election. But like will he actually pay or will it do anything? And this is a serious question because Alex Jones has changed not even a little and is still living like an ultra rich guy. It seems like regular people are forced to pay but the rich can just delay it forever.
Good point. And I don't know, given that Trump probably doesn't have too many years left on this planet anyway. It would be nice for him to need to deal with at least some consequences/punishments while he's still alive. In addition to the half-billion dollars, I believe that Trump is also banned from engaging in New York real estate business for the next three years... although I don't know what that actually would entail, in practice, and if there are loopholes around it.
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On February 17 2024 19:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Turns out there's a way to express one's opposition to Biden's support of Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign through voting "uncommitted" in Michigan's primary https://twitter.com/Listen2michigan/status/1758514217538216405Something people may want to check if they have anything similar available in their state. Literally 0 pressure to vote for Biden in the primary so anyone can do it (if their state lets them). seems like an excellent way to express disapproval
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On February 17 2024 19:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2024 19:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Turns out there's a way to express one's opposition to Biden's support of Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign through voting "uncommitted" in Michigan's primary https://twitter.com/Listen2michigan/status/1758514217538216405Something people may want to check if they have anything similar available in their state. Literally 0 pressure to vote for Biden in the primary so anyone can do it (if their state lets them). I think this is a reasonably good compromise, as it makes your voice heard during the primary without automatically helping Trump during the general election. Show nested quote +On February 17 2024 15:11 JimmiC wrote:On February 17 2024 12:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Trump is taking loss after loss in the courts in 2024. From his civil trials alone, he owes like half a billion dollars total, from the business fraud to the defamation of one of his rape victims. And he still has nearly 100 criminal charges against him. He's going to be very busy this year; let's hope he doesn't end it by winning the presidential election. But like will he actually pay or will it do anything? And this is a serious question because Alex Jones has changed not even a little and is still living like an ultra rich guy. It seems like regular people are forced to pay but the rich can just delay it forever. Good point. And I don't know, given that Trump probably doesn't have too many years left on this planet anyway. It would be nice for him to need to deal with at least some consequences/punishments while he's still alive. In addition to the half-billion dollars, I believe that Trump is also banned from engaging in New York real estate business for the next three years... although I don't know what that actually would entail, in practice, and if there are loopholes around it.
From what I see, his net worth is 2.6 billion so he can probably pay 0.5 billion fine. I actually thought he didn't have enough net worth before I checked, so I guess he doesn't have to be excused from paying.
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On February 17 2024 21:39 SC-Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2024 19:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 17 2024 19:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Turns out there's a way to express one's opposition to Biden's support of Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign through voting "uncommitted" in Michigan's primary https://twitter.com/Listen2michigan/status/1758514217538216405Something people may want to check if they have anything similar available in their state. Literally 0 pressure to vote for Biden in the primary so anyone can do it (if their state lets them). I think this is a reasonably good compromise, as it makes your voice heard during the primary without automatically helping Trump during the general election. On February 17 2024 15:11 JimmiC wrote:On February 17 2024 12:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Trump is taking loss after loss in the courts in 2024. From his civil trials alone, he owes like half a billion dollars total, from the business fraud to the defamation of one of his rape victims. And he still has nearly 100 criminal charges against him. He's going to be very busy this year; let's hope he doesn't end it by winning the presidential election. But like will he actually pay or will it do anything? And this is a serious question because Alex Jones has changed not even a little and is still living like an ultra rich guy. It seems like regular people are forced to pay but the rich can just delay it forever. Good point. And I don't know, given that Trump probably doesn't have too many years left on this planet anyway. It would be nice for him to need to deal with at least some consequences/punishments while he's still alive. In addition to the half-billion dollars, I believe that Trump is also banned from engaging in New York real estate business for the next three years... although I don't know what that actually would entail, in practice, and if there are loopholes around it. From what I see, his net worth is 2.6 billion so he can probably pay 0.5 billion fine. I actually thought he didn't have enough net worth before I checked, so I guess he doesn't have to be excused from paying.
The problem is liquidity moreso than assets. He claimed to have the money in cash at some point during the trial, but who knows if that's true or not. Everything else is tied up in real estate which is a slow thing to move. He was just found guilty of fraud so up in the air if anyone will loan him money to pay the bill.
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I had actually been thinking I’d leave the presidential primary blank on my primary ballot while voting on the other initiatives and such.
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United States42497 Posts
On February 18 2024 01:31 Lmui wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2024 21:39 SC-Shield wrote:On February 17 2024 19:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 17 2024 19:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Turns out there's a way to express one's opposition to Biden's support of Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign through voting "uncommitted" in Michigan's primary https://twitter.com/Listen2michigan/status/1758514217538216405Something people may want to check if they have anything similar available in their state. Literally 0 pressure to vote for Biden in the primary so anyone can do it (if their state lets them). I think this is a reasonably good compromise, as it makes your voice heard during the primary without automatically helping Trump during the general election. On February 17 2024 15:11 JimmiC wrote:On February 17 2024 12:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Trump is taking loss after loss in the courts in 2024. From his civil trials alone, he owes like half a billion dollars total, from the business fraud to the defamation of one of his rape victims. And he still has nearly 100 criminal charges against him. He's going to be very busy this year; let's hope he doesn't end it by winning the presidential election. But like will he actually pay or will it do anything? And this is a serious question because Alex Jones has changed not even a little and is still living like an ultra rich guy. It seems like regular people are forced to pay but the rich can just delay it forever. Good point. And I don't know, given that Trump probably doesn't have too many years left on this planet anyway. It would be nice for him to need to deal with at least some consequences/punishments while he's still alive. In addition to the half-billion dollars, I believe that Trump is also banned from engaging in New York real estate business for the next three years... although I don't know what that actually would entail, in practice, and if there are loopholes around it. From what I see, his net worth is 2.6 billion so he can probably pay 0.5 billion fine. I actually thought he didn't have enough net worth before I checked, so I guess he doesn't have to be excused from paying. The problem is liquidity moreso than assets. He claimed to have the money in cash at some point during the trial, but who knows if that's true or not. Everything else is tied up in real estate which is a slow thing to move. He was just found guilty of fraud so up in the air if anyone will loan him money to pay the bill.
It’s funny to think that AOC started this when she grilled Michael Cohen, Trump’s criminal lawyer, in the house. And Cohen got caught because Trump directed him to make illegal payments to a porn star. If Trump had just managed to not cheat on his wife in the shadiest dumbest way possible then he’d be 450m richer. The gift that keeps giving with Trump’s troubles is just how much of it is self inflicted. He does the scummiest things and then lies about them in the dumbest ways and he just won’t stop digging.
The 80m libel case was initially dismissed because Trump got his justice department to rule that it was presidential speech. But then he just kept on libeling her after he was no longer president opening the door for a judge to argue that it couldn’t have been presidential speech if he says the exact same things as a private individual.
The world bends over backwards to shower Trump with do-overs, immunity, free passes etc. It correctly identifies that as a New York billionaire he is pretty much above accountability and that as long as he’s not really flagrant about his criminality and as long as he doesn’t double down on it on live tv angrily confessing then they’ll leave him alone. To which Trump says “hold my beer” and triples down.
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On February 17 2024 20:14 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2024 19:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Turns out there's a way to express one's opposition to Biden's support of Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign through voting "uncommitted" in Michigan's primary https://twitter.com/Listen2michigan/status/1758514217538216405Something people may want to check if they have anything similar available in their state. Literally 0 pressure to vote for Biden in the primary so anyone can do it (if their state lets them). seems like an excellent way to express disapproval
Two questions it raises is whether Democrat voters that ostensibly oppose Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign/genocide will do it (not much reason not to) and then whether Biden will listen or spurn them to appeal to Trump voters.
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On February 18 2024 05:55 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2024 01:31 Lmui wrote:On February 17 2024 21:39 SC-Shield wrote:On February 17 2024 19:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 17 2024 19:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Turns out there's a way to express one's opposition to Biden's support of Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign through voting "uncommitted" in Michigan's primary https://twitter.com/Listen2michigan/status/1758514217538216405Something people may want to check if they have anything similar available in their state. Literally 0 pressure to vote for Biden in the primary so anyone can do it (if their state lets them). I think this is a reasonably good compromise, as it makes your voice heard during the primary without automatically helping Trump during the general election. On February 17 2024 15:11 JimmiC wrote:On February 17 2024 12:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Trump is taking loss after loss in the courts in 2024. From his civil trials alone, he owes like half a billion dollars total, from the business fraud to the defamation of one of his rape victims. And he still has nearly 100 criminal charges against him. He's going to be very busy this year; let's hope he doesn't end it by winning the presidential election. But like will he actually pay or will it do anything? And this is a serious question because Alex Jones has changed not even a little and is still living like an ultra rich guy. It seems like regular people are forced to pay but the rich can just delay it forever. Good point. And I don't know, given that Trump probably doesn't have too many years left on this planet anyway. It would be nice for him to need to deal with at least some consequences/punishments while he's still alive. In addition to the half-billion dollars, I believe that Trump is also banned from engaging in New York real estate business for the next three years... although I don't know what that actually would entail, in practice, and if there are loopholes around it. From what I see, his net worth is 2.6 billion so he can probably pay 0.5 billion fine. I actually thought he didn't have enough net worth before I checked, so I guess he doesn't have to be excused from paying. The problem is liquidity moreso than assets. He claimed to have the money in cash at some point during the trial, but who knows if that's true or not. Everything else is tied up in real estate which is a slow thing to move. He was just found guilty of fraud so up in the air if anyone will loan him money to pay the bill. It’s funny to think that AOC started this when she grilled Michael Cohen, Trump’s criminal lawyer, in the house. And Cohen got caught because Trump directed him to make illegal payments to a porn star. If Trump had just managed to not cheat on his wife in the shadiest dumbest way possible then he’d be 450m richer. The gift that keeps giving with Trump’s troubles is just how much of it is self inflicted. He does the scummiest things and then lies about them in the dumbest ways and he just won’t stop digging. The 80m libel case was initially dismissed because Trump got his justice department to rule that it was presidential speech. But then he just kept on libeling her after he was no longer president opening the door for a judge to argue that it couldn’t have been presidential speech if he says the exact same things as a private individual. The world bends over backwards to shower Trump with do-overs, immunity, free passes etc. It correctly identifies that as a New York billionaire he is pretty much above accountability and that as long as he’s not really flagrant about his criminality and as long as he doesn’t double down on it on live tv angrily confessing then they’ll leave him alone. To which Trump says “hold my beer” and triples down.
To be fair, he got away with it for more than 70 years. Why would he expect that to change now, when all of his life experience tells him that it works, because it has always worked before.
And so far, we haven't seen him actually having to deal with any fallout yet, either. So the question of "will he get away with it" is still in the open. Sure, courts have decided stuff, but does he actually pay? And what happens if he just doesn't?
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United States24660 Posts
If it was a normal person, the court would order the organization holding the money/property/etc to turn it over. I'm not sure how loyal they will all be to Trump at this point, either.
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Northern Ireland24965 Posts
On February 18 2024 23:07 JimmiC wrote:
I find it funny that his whole strategy revolves around lawyers but because he’s so arrogant (knows better and won’t listen) is such a jerk (won’t pay, treats them badly) that he ends up with shitty ones.
That people think he’s some sort of effective leader or even smart boggles my mind.
I find it’s best not to think about it, it’s definitely preserved at least some of my dwindling sanity over the years.
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