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I think Cortez Masto and Kelly should squeak by for their Senate races, but I can't say the same for the governor's races of their Democratic counterparts in their states. Lake should be able to win (this hurts me) and Sisolak is running behind Cortez Masto so he's also in trouble.
In a sign of how NY went very poorly for Dems, Rep. Maloney conceded his NY-17 seat. He's the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee chair so hugely embarrassing and I think the first party committee leader to lose his seat in like 40-50 years.
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United States44187 Posts
On November 09 2022 17:29 Broetchenholer wrote:
Rhetorical question here. Let's say, the democratic party would suddenly remember that they exist to improve the country, would create absolute unity among their legislative members and would bring a bill to change the political system to move away from winner takes all, add more senators to move to a better representation of voters, not states and reforms campaign finances to drain the influence of money interest in politics. Fully knowing that they would murder their own party with that and their individual political careers, what would need to happen for this to work? Is there even a way to push for the first part on a federal level, or is this down to every individual state?
Down to the states. You have to ask the parties that run states to give up their power over them for the good of the country and you’ll be laughed out of the room. For example I would like to see California allocate its electoral college seats proportionally so as not to disenfranchise 40% of the state in the presidential election but the Democrats who run California would never betray their national chances by serving their constituents.
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United States44187 Posts
On November 09 2022 23:21 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2022 23:06 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2022 22:51 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2022 16:00 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:42 Introvert wrote:On November 09 2022 15:39 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:26 Introvert wrote:On November 09 2022 15:23 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:10 Introvert wrote:On November 09 2022 15:08 ChristianS wrote:
Didn’t DeSantis basically invent the calling people “groomers” thing? Seems like he’s been on the front line of every hot button culture war issue, that’s hardly “not needlessly antagonizing people.” key word "needless" i suppose there is a lot of room there. Is the implication here that you’d consider calling people groomers “needed”? + Show Spoiler +not sure I actually want you to answer that. I mean I get the juxtaposition is with Trump who absolutely cannot help (more or less literally) tilting at windmills, but nearly every major DeSantis policy has fallen firmly under the “red meat for the base” heading. well to take these things together (and it is getting past my bed time), I think the fact that the education bill they passed was so overwhelming popular kind of speaks to both points. it wasn't divisive, and it wasn't just red meat. he let's the left overplay themselves, i mean imagine arguing that it's some great wrong to ban teaching that stuff to kids in kindergarten through 3rd grade. nuts. Yeah, it’s past my bedtime too. Book banning? Don’t Say Gay? Blatantly unconstitutional social media bill? Weird culture war against Disney? Fuck, chartering a plane to send migrants from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard? I mean Jesus Christ, he’s practically been licking camera lenses he’s been so eager for attention. I get it, he’s effective at selling what you’d like people to buy, but come on, don’t try to tell me the guy paying Christina Pushaw is some “common sense” moderate who “doesn’t needlessly antagonize people.” He’s maybe the single most influential figure in deciding Republicans were gonna run on CRT and trans panic this cycle. I didn't say moderate  He's a Tea Party type alright. Just again, I guess the word "needlessly" is doing some heavy lifting. but at at the end of tonight's consideration, we ought to think about how he managed to win by so much. Florida is becoming more red, but he did like 15 points better than Trump in 2020. he's convincing someone, or lots of someones. It’s a little early to be narrative-setting, but if we’re picking where to look for answers after this election: how did Republicans not clean house? You’ve repeatedly pointed out inflation, and gas prices, and Biden’s approval rating, and the longstanding historical trend for out-party gains in midterms. Funny you bring up the Tea Party, because last time you guys were here was 2010. How’s tonight looking by comparison? My point isn’t to gloat, you’ll still probably get both houses. My point is that guys like DeSantis got to decide what your party was gonna run on this cycle, and what did they pick? CRT. Trans panic. Culture war, all day every day. Republicans brought that message all over the country, with just about every conceivable wind at their back, and it flopped. Don’t get me wrong, Florida has clearly become Mecca for Christian nationalism, and we should absolutely look at how that happened, but most places that shit doesn’t sell. 1) Low conservative voter turnout 2) Racial admixture 3) GenZ strong woke Fwiw, trans panic is dumb. The obvious ideal optimum for that is everybody shrugs and says "oh your trans. Okay" and pays about as much attention as we would to the sun rising the morning or as we would if you said "hey I'm a girl$ The (local) protected and elevated status in certain groups isn't ideal, but given the overall awful treatment that trans people experience, I don't think it's bad. You're mostly going to get treated way worse as trans (especially FtM), which is rather regrettable. CRT, on the other hand is very problematic Like the actual CRT that is a university option? Or the CRT desantis rails against, which is basically a boogy man of anything ultra right people fear? I think this is a good explanation of the controversy surrounding critical race theory. https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what-is-critical-race-theory-and-why-is-it-under-attack/2021/05In essence the Democrats and Republicans are talking past each other. The Republicans fundamentally oppose the beliefs that underpin critical race theory. The Democrats support those beliefs. Critical race theory in the school teaching context is ultimately a convenient namesake for what could be more accurately called racial equity.
As with many things, the Democrats are supporting the expert studied opinion. They’re not supporting it because it’s a vote winner, they’re supporting it because it is historical fact and facts don’t care about your feelings.
I was recently unfortunate enough to catch some Fox News in the gym and the talking blob of lard was ranting about how convenient it is that all of the so called experts all happen to support the Democrat point of view. Surely it’s not a coincidence, he raved. Surely they’re all in on it. He suggested we follow the money.
It just never occurs to them that the experts came first and that the Democrats listened. Not on CRT, not on police reform, not on homelessness, drug control, trans medical care, public health, or anything else. It’s always a conspiracy to push an agenda. That blind spot in conservative media is amusing to me because it’s a confession, they believe truth is something to be generated in order to support their ideals and they can’t imagine anyone listening first and then generating policy.
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CRT becoming something conservatives clutch their pearls over is both hilarious as to how stupid and openly racist they are but also sad because of how effective the propaganda was in making voters actually fear it. Despite if you ask the average voter what CRT is you will get 5 different answers and they will all be wrong.
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Canada11578 Posts
Adding to the confusion is the motte and bailey defence so nothing is really CRT until the pressure is off.
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Northern Ireland27200 Posts
On November 10 2022 01:33 Slaughter wrote:
CRT becoming something conservatives clutch their pearls over is both hilarious as to how stupid and openly racist they are but also sad because of how effective the propaganda was in making voters actually fear it. Despite if you ask the average voter what CRT is you will get 5 different answers and they will all be wrong.
It’s what used to be in televisions right?
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Northern Ireland27200 Posts
On November 10 2022 00:59 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2022 23:21 gobbledydook wrote:On November 09 2022 23:06 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2022 22:51 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2022 16:00 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:42 Introvert wrote:On November 09 2022 15:39 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:26 Introvert wrote:On November 09 2022 15:23 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:10 Introvert wrote:
[quote]
key word "needless" i suppose there is a lot of room there.
Is the implication here that you’d consider calling people groomers “needed”? + Show Spoiler +not sure I actually want you to answer that. I mean I get the juxtaposition is with Trump who absolutely cannot help (more or less literally) tilting at windmills, but nearly every major DeSantis policy has fallen firmly under the “red meat for the base” heading. well to take these things together (and it is getting past my bed time), I think the fact that the education bill they passed was so overwhelming popular kind of speaks to both points. it wasn't divisive, and it wasn't just red meat. he let's the left overplay themselves, i mean imagine arguing that it's some great wrong to ban teaching that stuff to kids in kindergarten through 3rd grade. nuts. Yeah, it’s past my bedtime too. Book banning? Don’t Say Gay? Blatantly unconstitutional social media bill? Weird culture war against Disney? Fuck, chartering a plane to send migrants from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard? I mean Jesus Christ, he’s practically been licking camera lenses he’s been so eager for attention. I get it, he’s effective at selling what you’d like people to buy, but come on, don’t try to tell me the guy paying Christina Pushaw is some “common sense” moderate who “doesn’t needlessly antagonize people.” He’s maybe the single most influential figure in deciding Republicans were gonna run on CRT and trans panic this cycle. I didn't say moderate He's a Tea Party type alright. Just again, I guess the word "needlessly" is doing some heavy lifting. but at at the end of tonight's consideration, we ought to think about how he managed to win by so much. Florida is becoming more red, but he did like 15 points better than Trump in 2020. he's convincing someone, or lots of someones. It’s a little early to be narrative-setting, but if we’re picking where to look for answers after this election: how did Republicans not clean house? You’ve repeatedly pointed out inflation, and gas prices, and Biden’s approval rating, and the longstanding historical trend for out-party gains in midterms. Funny you bring up the Tea Party, because last time you guys were here was 2010. How’s tonight looking by comparison? My point isn’t to gloat, you’ll still probably get both houses. My point is that guys like DeSantis got to decide what your party was gonna run on this cycle, and what did they pick? CRT. Trans panic. Culture war, all day every day. Republicans brought that message all over the country, with just about every conceivable wind at their back, and it flopped. Don’t get me wrong, Florida has clearly become Mecca for Christian nationalism, and we should absolutely look at how that happened, but most places that shit doesn’t sell. 1) Low conservative voter turnout 2) Racial admixture 3) GenZ strong woke Fwiw, trans panic is dumb. The obvious ideal optimum for that is everybody shrugs and says "oh your trans. Okay" and pays about as much attention as we would to the sun rising the morning or as we would if you said "hey I'm a girl$ The (local) protected and elevated status in certain groups isn't ideal, but given the overall awful treatment that trans people experience, I don't think it's bad. You're mostly going to get treated way worse as trans (especially FtM), which is rather regrettable. CRT, on the other hand is very problematic Like the actual CRT that is a university option? Or the CRT desantis rails against, which is basically a boogy man of anything ultra right people fear? I think this is a good explanation of the controversy surrounding critical race theory. https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what-is-critical-race-theory-and-why-is-it-under-attack/2021/05In essence the Democrats and Republicans are talking past each other. The Republicans fundamentally oppose the beliefs that underpin critical race theory. The Democrats support those beliefs. Critical race theory in the school teaching context is ultimately a convenient namesake for what could be more accurately called racial equity. As with many things, the Democrats are supporting the expert studied opinion. They’re not supporting it because it’s a vote winner, they’re supporting it because it is historical fact and facts don’t care about your feelings. I was recently unfortunate enough to catch some Fox News in the gym and the talking blob of lard was ranting about how convenient it is that all of the so called experts all happen to support the Democrat point of view. Surely it’s not a coincidence, he raved. Surely they’re all in on it. He suggested we follow the money. It just never occurs to them that the experts came first and that the Democrats listened. Not on CRT, not on police reform, not on homelessness, drug control, trans medical care, public health, or anything else. It’s always a conspiracy to push an agenda. That blind spot in conservative media is amusing to me because it’s a confession, they believe truth is something to be generated in order to support their ideals and they can’t imagine anyone listening first and then generating policy.
They also aren’t massive fans of actually following the money.
If they actually did they might notice that a fuckton of money was lost due to COVID and maybe all these ‘elites’ might be inconvenienced by that.
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On November 10 2022 02:56 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2022 02:49 WombaT wrote:On November 10 2022 00:59 KwarK wrote:On November 09 2022 23:21 gobbledydook wrote:On November 09 2022 23:06 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2022 22:51 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2022 16:00 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:42 Introvert wrote:On November 09 2022 15:39 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:26 Introvert wrote:
[quote]
well to take these things together (and it is getting past my bed time), I think the fact that the education bill they passed was so overwhelming popular kind of speaks to both points. it wasn't divisive, and it wasn't just red meat. he let's the left overplay themselves, i mean imagine arguing that it's some great wrong to ban teaching that stuff to kids in kindergarten through 3rd grade. nuts. Yeah, it’s past my bedtime too. Book banning? Don’t Say Gay? Blatantly unconstitutional social media bill? Weird culture war against Disney? Fuck, chartering a plane to send migrants from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard? I mean Jesus Christ, he’s practically been licking camera lenses he’s been so eager for attention. I get it, he’s effective at selling what you’d like people to buy, but come on, don’t try to tell me the guy paying Christina Pushaw is some “common sense” moderate who “doesn’t needlessly antagonize people.” He’s maybe the single most influential figure in deciding Republicans were gonna run on CRT and trans panic this cycle. I didn't say moderate He's a Tea Party type alright. Just again, I guess the word "needlessly" is doing some heavy lifting. but at at the end of tonight's consideration, we ought to think about how he managed to win by so much. Florida is becoming more red, but he did like 15 points better than Trump in 2020. he's convincing someone, or lots of someones. It’s a little early to be narrative-setting, but if we’re picking where to look for answers after this election: how did Republicans not clean house? You’ve repeatedly pointed out inflation, and gas prices, and Biden’s approval rating, and the longstanding historical trend for out-party gains in midterms. Funny you bring up the Tea Party, because last time you guys were here was 2010. How’s tonight looking by comparison? My point isn’t to gloat, you’ll still probably get both houses. My point is that guys like DeSantis got to decide what your party was gonna run on this cycle, and what did they pick? CRT. Trans panic. Culture war, all day every day. Republicans brought that message all over the country, with just about every conceivable wind at their back, and it flopped. Don’t get me wrong, Florida has clearly become Mecca for Christian nationalism, and we should absolutely look at how that happened, but most places that shit doesn’t sell. 1) Low conservative voter turnout 2) Racial admixture 3) GenZ strong woke Fwiw, trans panic is dumb. The obvious ideal optimum for that is everybody shrugs and says "oh your trans. Okay" and pays about as much attention as we would to the sun rising the morning or as we would if you said "hey I'm a girl$ The (local) protected and elevated status in certain groups isn't ideal, but given the overall awful treatment that trans people experience, I don't think it's bad. You're mostly going to get treated way worse as trans (especially FtM), which is rather regrettable. CRT, on the other hand is very problematic Like the actual CRT that is a university option? Or the CRT desantis rails against, which is basically a boogy man of anything ultra right people fear? I think this is a good explanation of the controversy surrounding critical race theory. https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what-is-critical-race-theory-and-why-is-it-under-attack/2021/05In essence the Democrats and Republicans are talking past each other. The Republicans fundamentally oppose the beliefs that underpin critical race theory. The Democrats support those beliefs. Critical race theory in the school teaching context is ultimately a convenient namesake for what could be more accurately called racial equity. As with many things, the Democrats are supporting the expert studied opinion. They’re not supporting it because it’s a vote winner, they’re supporting it because it is historical fact and facts don’t care about your feelings. I was recently unfortunate enough to catch some Fox News in the gym and the talking blob of lard was ranting about how convenient it is that all of the so called experts all happen to support the Democrat point of view. Surely it’s not a coincidence, he raved. Surely they’re all in on it. He suggested we follow the money. It just never occurs to them that the experts came first and that the Democrats listened. Not on CRT, not on police reform, not on homelessness, drug control, trans medical care, public health, or anything else. It’s always a conspiracy to push an agenda. That blind spot in conservative media is amusing to me because it’s a confession, they believe truth is something to be generated in order to support their ideals and they can’t imagine anyone listening first and then generating policy. They also aren’t massive fans of actually following the money. If they actually did they might notice that a fuckton of money was lost due to COVID and maybe all these ‘elites’ might be inconvenienced by that. That and that as much (I'd hazard to guess even more) money from the big guys is flowing right into their hands of their politicians. And all the money they donate whether it is to "stop the steal" or "build the wall" is not remotely going anywhere close to those objectives. But their politician's are sure getting a lot wealthier fighting the deep state! And it is not that difficult of a job, still tons of time for lavish parties and golf.
That just proves that they are doing a good job at it, and working hard. Because when you work hard and do a good job, you get rich.
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Interesting that once the Michigan lines were redrawn to not be as badly gerrymandered the Dems swept and now hold the 1st super majority of state level positions for the 1st time since like the 80s.
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On November 10 2022 03:34 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2022 02:57 Simberto wrote:On November 10 2022 02:56 JimmiC wrote:On November 10 2022 02:49 WombaT wrote:On November 10 2022 00:59 KwarK wrote:On November 09 2022 23:21 gobbledydook wrote:On November 09 2022 23:06 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2022 22:51 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2022 16:00 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:42 Introvert wrote:[quote] I didn't say moderate He's a Tea Party type alright. Just again, I guess the word "needlessly" is doing some heavy lifting. but at at the end of tonight's consideration, we ought to think about how he managed to win by so much. Florida is becoming more red, but he did like 15 points better than Trump in 2020. he's convincing someone, or lots of someones. It’s a little early to be narrative-setting, but if we’re picking where to look for answers after this election: how did Republicans not clean house? You’ve repeatedly pointed out inflation, and gas prices, and Biden’s approval rating, and the longstanding historical trend for out-party gains in midterms. Funny you bring up the Tea Party, because last time you guys were here was 2010. How’s tonight looking by comparison? My point isn’t to gloat, you’ll still probably get both houses. My point is that guys like DeSantis got to decide what your party was gonna run on this cycle, and what did they pick? CRT. Trans panic. Culture war, all day every day. Republicans brought that message all over the country, with just about every conceivable wind at their back, and it flopped. Don’t get me wrong, Florida has clearly become Mecca for Christian nationalism, and we should absolutely look at how that happened, but most places that shit doesn’t sell. 1) Low conservative voter turnout 2) Racial admixture 3) GenZ strong woke Fwiw, trans panic is dumb. The obvious ideal optimum for that is everybody shrugs and says "oh your trans. Okay" and pays about as much attention as we would to the sun rising the morning or as we would if you said "hey I'm a girl$ The (local) protected and elevated status in certain groups isn't ideal, but given the overall awful treatment that trans people experience, I don't think it's bad. You're mostly going to get treated way worse as trans (especially FtM), which is rather regrettable. CRT, on the other hand is very problematic Like the actual CRT that is a university option? Or the CRT desantis rails against, which is basically a boogy man of anything ultra right people fear? I think this is a good explanation of the controversy surrounding critical race theory. https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what-is-critical-race-theory-and-why-is-it-under-attack/2021/05In essence the Democrats and Republicans are talking past each other. The Republicans fundamentally oppose the beliefs that underpin critical race theory. The Democrats support those beliefs. Critical race theory in the school teaching context is ultimately a convenient namesake for what could be more accurately called racial equity. As with many things, the Democrats are supporting the expert studied opinion. They’re not supporting it because it’s a vote winner, they’re supporting it because it is historical fact and facts don’t care about your feelings. I was recently unfortunate enough to catch some Fox News in the gym and the talking blob of lard was ranting about how convenient it is that all of the so called experts all happen to support the Democrat point of view. Surely it’s not a coincidence, he raved. Surely they’re all in on it. He suggested we follow the money. It just never occurs to them that the experts came first and that the Democrats listened. Not on CRT, not on police reform, not on homelessness, drug control, trans medical care, public health, or anything else. It’s always a conspiracy to push an agenda. That blind spot in conservative media is amusing to me because it’s a confession, they believe truth is something to be generated in order to support their ideals and they can’t imagine anyone listening first and then generating policy. They also aren’t massive fans of actually following the money. If they actually did they might notice that a fuckton of money was lost due to COVID and maybe all these ‘elites’ might be inconvenienced by that. That and that as much (I'd hazard to guess even more) money from the big guys is flowing right into their hands of their politicians. And all the money they donate whether it is to "stop the steal" or "build the wall" is not remotely going anywhere close to those objectives. But their politician's are sure getting a lot wealthier fighting the deep state! And it is not that difficult of a job, still tons of time for lavish parties and golf. That just proves that they are doing a good job at it, and working hard. Because when you work hard and do a good job, you get rich. So the rich supporting the dems are good or different rule completely?
Oh those rich people are evil. They're a global cabal that operates a pedophile ring for the world's elites. But not the right's elites, just the left's. Unless we're talking about QAnon purists who believe all the elites are in the pedophile ring but that the ones on the right like Trump are the "good" pedophiles looking to take the system down from the inside.
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On November 10 2022 03:42 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2022 03:38 StasisField wrote:On November 10 2022 03:34 JimmiC wrote:On November 10 2022 02:57 Simberto wrote:On November 10 2022 02:56 JimmiC wrote:On November 10 2022 02:49 WombaT wrote:On November 10 2022 00:59 KwarK wrote:On November 09 2022 23:21 gobbledydook wrote:On November 09 2022 23:06 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2022 22:51 L_Master wrote:
[quote]
1) Low conservative voter turnout
2) Racial admixture
3) GenZ strong woke
Fwiw, trans panic is dumb. The obvious ideal optimum for that is everybody shrugs and says "oh your trans. Okay" and pays about as much attention as we would to the sun rising the morning or as we would if you said "hey I'm a girl$
The (local) protected and elevated status in certain groups isn't ideal, but given the overall awful treatment that trans people experience, I don't think it's bad. You're mostly going to get treated way worse as trans (especially FtM), which is rather regrettable.
CRT, on the other hand is very problematic
Like the actual CRT that is a university option? Or the CRT desantis rails against, which is basically a boogy man of anything ultra right people fear? I think this is a good explanation of the controversy surrounding critical race theory. https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what-is-critical-race-theory-and-why-is-it-under-attack/2021/05In essence the Democrats and Republicans are talking past each other. The Republicans fundamentally oppose the beliefs that underpin critical race theory. The Democrats support those beliefs. Critical race theory in the school teaching context is ultimately a convenient namesake for what could be more accurately called racial equity. As with many things, the Democrats are supporting the expert studied opinion. They’re not supporting it because it’s a vote winner, they’re supporting it because it is historical fact and facts don’t care about your feelings. I was recently unfortunate enough to catch some Fox News in the gym and the talking blob of lard was ranting about how convenient it is that all of the so called experts all happen to support the Democrat point of view. Surely it’s not a coincidence, he raved. Surely they’re all in on it. He suggested we follow the money. It just never occurs to them that the experts came first and that the Democrats listened. Not on CRT, not on police reform, not on homelessness, drug control, trans medical care, public health, or anything else. It’s always a conspiracy to push an agenda. That blind spot in conservative media is amusing to me because it’s a confession, they believe truth is something to be generated in order to support their ideals and they can’t imagine anyone listening first and then generating policy. They also aren’t massive fans of actually following the money. If they actually did they might notice that a fuckton of money was lost due to COVID and maybe all these ‘elites’ might be inconvenienced by that. That and that as much (I'd hazard to guess even more) money from the big guys is flowing right into their hands of their politicians. And all the money they donate whether it is to "stop the steal" or "build the wall" is not remotely going anywhere close to those objectives. But their politician's are sure getting a lot wealthier fighting the deep state! And it is not that difficult of a job, still tons of time for lavish parties and golf. That just proves that they are doing a good job at it, and working hard. Because when you work hard and do a good job, you get rich. So the rich supporting the dems are good or different rule completely? Oh those rich people are evil. They're a global cabal that operates a pedophile ring for the world's elites. But not the right's elites, just the left's. Unless we're talking about QAnon purists who believe all the elites are in the pedophile ring but that the ones on the right like Trump are the "good" pedophiles looking to take the system down from the inside. It is quite the web, very confusing. Strange that some people can be so all in for something so complicated. (and completely illogical). When the good guy bad guy is dependent on what "team" they are on, critical thinking has gone out the window. This is true of Dem/rep, Left/Right, Communist/Capitalist. The determining factor should be actions not what team they claim to be a part of.
At it's core, it is not complicated.
The single thing that you need to remember is "Our people good, their people bad, incompetent or evil" Everything else follows from that axiom.
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On November 10 2022 00:01 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2022 20:57 BlackJack wrote:On November 09 2022 16:00 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:42 Introvert wrote:On November 09 2022 15:39 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:26 Introvert wrote:On November 09 2022 15:23 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:10 Introvert wrote:On November 09 2022 15:08 ChristianS wrote:
Didn’t DeSantis basically invent the calling people “groomers” thing? Seems like he’s been on the front line of every hot button culture war issue, that’s hardly “not needlessly antagonizing people.” key word "needless" i suppose there is a lot of room there. Is the implication here that you’d consider calling people groomers “needed”? + Show Spoiler +not sure I actually want you to answer that. I mean I get the juxtaposition is with Trump who absolutely cannot help (more or less literally) tilting at windmills, but nearly every major DeSantis policy has fallen firmly under the “red meat for the base” heading. well to take these things together (and it is getting past my bed time), I think the fact that the education bill they passed was so overwhelming popular kind of speaks to both points. it wasn't divisive, and it wasn't just red meat. he let's the left overplay themselves, i mean imagine arguing that it's some great wrong to ban teaching that stuff to kids in kindergarten through 3rd grade. nuts. Yeah, it’s past my bedtime too. Book banning? Don’t Say Gay? Blatantly unconstitutional social media bill? Weird culture war against Disney? Fuck, chartering a plane to send migrants from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard? I mean Jesus Christ, he’s practically been licking camera lenses he’s been so eager for attention. I get it, he’s effective at selling what you’d like people to buy, but come on, don’t try to tell me the guy paying Christina Pushaw is some “common sense” moderate who “doesn’t needlessly antagonize people.” He’s maybe the single most influential figure in deciding Republicans were gonna run on CRT and trans panic this cycle. I didn't say moderate He's a Tea Party type alright. Just again, I guess the word "needlessly" is doing some heavy lifting. but at at the end of tonight's consideration, we ought to think about how he managed to win by so much. Florida is becoming more red, but he did like 15 points better than Trump in 2020. he's convincing someone, or lots of someones. It’s a little early to be narrative-setting, but if we’re picking where to look for answers after this election: how did Republicans not clean house? You’ve repeatedly pointed out inflation, and gas prices, and Biden’s approval rating, and the longstanding historical trend for out-party gains in midterms. Funny you bring up the Tea Party, because last time you guys were here was 2010. How’s tonight looking by comparison? My point isn’t to gloat, you’ll still probably get both houses. My point is that guys like DeSantis got to decide what your party was gonna run on this cycle, and what did they pick? CRT. Trans panic. Culture war, all day every day. Republicans brought that message all over the country, with just about every conceivable wind at their back, and it flopped. Don’t get me wrong, Florida has clearly become Mecca for Christian nationalism, and we should absolutely look at how that happened, but most places that shit doesn’t sell. We also have gas prices trending down, Biden's approval rating trending up, student loan forgiveness, Republicans being generally crazy election-deniers, banning abortion, stonewalling on gun control despite a slue of mass shootings. I'd say those are bigger reasons why Republicans didn't clean house as opposed to a rejection of the anti-woke culture wars issues. Mostly because I still think the latter are winning issues for the Republicans. Are we supposed to think voters respond to gas price trendline rather than the actual number? That’s not rhetorical, I’m genuinely asking. Gas prices, inflation, and the economy are canonically some of the most important factors on voter behavior, but the mechanism puzzles me a little. Like, NYT ran a poll of some battleground congressional districts a few weeks back, and the numbers were surprisingly strong for Democrats compared to the last NYT national poll. Nate Cohn was tweeting about it, and somebody asked if that might reflect movement toward Dems in that time, to which he replied something like “yeah maybe, gas prices have gone down a bit since then.” I get the idea that people would vote based on their sense of financial well-being. But who is driving past a gas station and seeing the price, pulling over, scraping of their bumper sticker, and slapping on the other candidate’s? Who is actually looking at a chart of gas prices and saying “well it’s down 20 cents, guess I’m going D after all”? I mean I’m skeptical of your explanations because I know you *personally* care a lot about anti-woke culture war issues. That and talking about covid seem like your biggest motivators, at least when you’re posting on this site. But it seems to me that if Republicans spend an entire election cycle yelling about CRT and “groomers” at every opportunity, and passing policies accordingly, at the end of which they significantly underperform the fundamentals in the next election, that’s pretty good evidence voters don’t give a shit. And why should they? They’re mostly made up issues they don’t actually affect the average person’s life very much.
Yeah, that is what I’m saying. When there’s a several point shift in Bidens approval rating that represents people saying “I didn’t approve of Biden last month but now I do.” I don’t know if it specifically happens after driving past a gas station and seeing prices coming down. Since July I don’t think the culture war rhetoric changed in any meaningful way but gas prices, abortion laws, student loans did change. So I would conclude those are the things that moved the needle in favor of the Dems. So I suppose I agree with your assessment that “voters don’t give a shit” since those other things I named are what I think moved the needle.
Edit: and I should add that I think the Presidents approval rating is somewhat of a barometer for how the country feels about the R’s and the D’s
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Oregon dream right now. Cletus didn’t get his governor and now Cletus can’t buy a gun. Woooohooooo
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On November 10 2022 02:49 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2022 00:59 KwarK wrote:On November 09 2022 23:21 gobbledydook wrote:On November 09 2022 23:06 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2022 22:51 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2022 16:00 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:42 Introvert wrote:On November 09 2022 15:39 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:26 Introvert wrote:On November 09 2022 15:23 ChristianS wrote:[quote] Is the implication here that you’d consider calling people groomers “needed”? + Show Spoiler +not sure I actually want you to answer that. I mean I get the juxtaposition is with Trump who absolutely cannot help (more or less literally) tilting at windmills, but nearly every major DeSantis policy has fallen firmly under the “red meat for the base” heading. well to take these things together (and it is getting past my bed time), I think the fact that the education bill they passed was so overwhelming popular kind of speaks to both points. it wasn't divisive, and it wasn't just red meat. he let's the left overplay themselves, i mean imagine arguing that it's some great wrong to ban teaching that stuff to kids in kindergarten through 3rd grade. nuts. Yeah, it’s past my bedtime too. Book banning? Don’t Say Gay? Blatantly unconstitutional social media bill? Weird culture war against Disney? Fuck, chartering a plane to send migrants from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard? I mean Jesus Christ, he’s practically been licking camera lenses he’s been so eager for attention. I get it, he’s effective at selling what you’d like people to buy, but come on, don’t try to tell me the guy paying Christina Pushaw is some “common sense” moderate who “doesn’t needlessly antagonize people.” He’s maybe the single most influential figure in deciding Republicans were gonna run on CRT and trans panic this cycle. I didn't say moderate He's a Tea Party type alright. Just again, I guess the word "needlessly" is doing some heavy lifting. but at at the end of tonight's consideration, we ought to think about how he managed to win by so much. Florida is becoming more red, but he did like 15 points better than Trump in 2020. he's convincing someone, or lots of someones. It’s a little early to be narrative-setting, but if we’re picking where to look for answers after this election: how did Republicans not clean house? You’ve repeatedly pointed out inflation, and gas prices, and Biden’s approval rating, and the longstanding historical trend for out-party gains in midterms. Funny you bring up the Tea Party, because last time you guys were here was 2010. How’s tonight looking by comparison? My point isn’t to gloat, you’ll still probably get both houses. My point is that guys like DeSantis got to decide what your party was gonna run on this cycle, and what did they pick? CRT. Trans panic. Culture war, all day every day. Republicans brought that message all over the country, with just about every conceivable wind at their back, and it flopped. Don’t get me wrong, Florida has clearly become Mecca for Christian nationalism, and we should absolutely look at how that happened, but most places that shit doesn’t sell. 1) Low conservative voter turnout 2) Racial admixture 3) GenZ strong woke Fwiw, trans panic is dumb. The obvious ideal optimum for that is everybody shrugs and says "oh your trans. Okay" and pays about as much attention as we would to the sun rising the morning or as we would if you said "hey I'm a girl$ The (local) protected and elevated status in certain groups isn't ideal, but given the overall awful treatment that trans people experience, I don't think it's bad. You're mostly going to get treated way worse as trans (especially FtM), which is rather regrettable. CRT, on the other hand is very problematic Like the actual CRT that is a university option? Or the CRT desantis rails against, which is basically a boogy man of anything ultra right people fear? I think this is a good explanation of the controversy surrounding critical race theory. https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what-is-critical-race-theory-and-why-is-it-under-attack/2021/05In essence the Democrats and Republicans are talking past each other. The Republicans fundamentally oppose the beliefs that underpin critical race theory. The Democrats support those beliefs. Critical race theory in the school teaching context is ultimately a convenient namesake for what could be more accurately called racial equity. As with many things, the Democrats are supporting the expert studied opinion. They’re not supporting it because it’s a vote winner, they’re supporting it because it is historical fact and facts don’t care about your feelings. I was recently unfortunate enough to catch some Fox News in the gym and the talking blob of lard was ranting about how convenient it is that all of the so called experts all happen to support the Democrat point of view. Surely it’s not a coincidence, he raved. Surely they’re all in on it. He suggested we follow the money. It just never occurs to them that the experts came first and that the Democrats listened. Not on CRT, not on police reform, not on homelessness, drug control, trans medical care, public health, or anything else. It’s always a conspiracy to push an agenda. That blind spot in conservative media is amusing to me because it’s a confession, they believe truth is something to be generated in order to support their ideals and they can’t imagine anyone listening first and then generating policy. They also aren’t massive fans of actually following the money. If they actually did they might notice that a fuckton of money was lost due to COVID and maybe all these ‘elites’ might be inconvenienced by that.
Eh... every talking point from the AOC/Sanders archetype during the pandemic was about how "the rich got richer."
They got richer to the tune of $1.7 trillion according to the title of this article I just googled and didn't bother to read
That's not to say I'm arguing in favor of any "follow the money" conspiracy. Only your insinuation that if we did indeed "follow the money" we wouldn't conclude that the so-called "elites" had a massive boon in wealth since the start of 2020. If anyone wanted to "inconvenience" me in such a manner I would welcome it.
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On November 10 2022 06:21 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2022 02:49 WombaT wrote:On November 10 2022 00:59 KwarK wrote:On November 09 2022 23:21 gobbledydook wrote:On November 09 2022 23:06 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2022 22:51 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2022 16:00 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:42 Introvert wrote:On November 09 2022 15:39 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:26 Introvert wrote:
[quote]
well to take these things together (and it is getting past my bed time), I think the fact that the education bill they passed was so overwhelming popular kind of speaks to both points. it wasn't divisive, and it wasn't just red meat. he let's the left overplay themselves, i mean imagine arguing that it's some great wrong to ban teaching that stuff to kids in kindergarten through 3rd grade. nuts. Yeah, it’s past my bedtime too. Book banning? Don’t Say Gay? Blatantly unconstitutional social media bill? Weird culture war against Disney? Fuck, chartering a plane to send migrants from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard? I mean Jesus Christ, he’s practically been licking camera lenses he’s been so eager for attention. I get it, he’s effective at selling what you’d like people to buy, but come on, don’t try to tell me the guy paying Christina Pushaw is some “common sense” moderate who “doesn’t needlessly antagonize people.” He’s maybe the single most influential figure in deciding Republicans were gonna run on CRT and trans panic this cycle. I didn't say moderate He's a Tea Party type alright. Just again, I guess the word "needlessly" is doing some heavy lifting. but at at the end of tonight's consideration, we ought to think about how he managed to win by so much. Florida is becoming more red, but he did like 15 points better than Trump in 2020. he's convincing someone, or lots of someones. It’s a little early to be narrative-setting, but if we’re picking where to look for answers after this election: how did Republicans not clean house? You’ve repeatedly pointed out inflation, and gas prices, and Biden’s approval rating, and the longstanding historical trend for out-party gains in midterms. Funny you bring up the Tea Party, because last time you guys were here was 2010. How’s tonight looking by comparison? My point isn’t to gloat, you’ll still probably get both houses. My point is that guys like DeSantis got to decide what your party was gonna run on this cycle, and what did they pick? CRT. Trans panic. Culture war, all day every day. Republicans brought that message all over the country, with just about every conceivable wind at their back, and it flopped. Don’t get me wrong, Florida has clearly become Mecca for Christian nationalism, and we should absolutely look at how that happened, but most places that shit doesn’t sell. 1) Low conservative voter turnout 2) Racial admixture 3) GenZ strong woke Fwiw, trans panic is dumb. The obvious ideal optimum for that is everybody shrugs and says "oh your trans. Okay" and pays about as much attention as we would to the sun rising the morning or as we would if you said "hey I'm a girl$ The (local) protected and elevated status in certain groups isn't ideal, but given the overall awful treatment that trans people experience, I don't think it's bad. You're mostly going to get treated way worse as trans (especially FtM), which is rather regrettable. CRT, on the other hand is very problematic Like the actual CRT that is a university option? Or the CRT desantis rails against, which is basically a boogy man of anything ultra right people fear? I think this is a good explanation of the controversy surrounding critical race theory. https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what-is-critical-race-theory-and-why-is-it-under-attack/2021/05In essence the Democrats and Republicans are talking past each other. The Republicans fundamentally oppose the beliefs that underpin critical race theory. The Democrats support those beliefs. Critical race theory in the school teaching context is ultimately a convenient namesake for what could be more accurately called racial equity. As with many things, the Democrats are supporting the expert studied opinion. They’re not supporting it because it’s a vote winner, they’re supporting it because it is historical fact and facts don’t care about your feelings. I was recently unfortunate enough to catch some Fox News in the gym and the talking blob of lard was ranting about how convenient it is that all of the so called experts all happen to support the Democrat point of view. Surely it’s not a coincidence, he raved. Surely they’re all in on it. He suggested we follow the money. It just never occurs to them that the experts came first and that the Democrats listened. Not on CRT, not on police reform, not on homelessness, drug control, trans medical care, public health, or anything else. It’s always a conspiracy to push an agenda. That blind spot in conservative media is amusing to me because it’s a confession, they believe truth is something to be generated in order to support their ideals and they can’t imagine anyone listening first and then generating policy. They also aren’t massive fans of actually following the money. If they actually did they might notice that a fuckton of money was lost due to COVID and maybe all these ‘elites’ might be inconvenienced by that. Eh... every talking point from the AOC/Sanders archetype during the pandemic was about how "the rich got richer." They got richer to the tune of $1.7 trillion according to the title of this article I just googled and didn't bother to readThat's not to say I'm arguing in favor of any "follow the money" conspiracy. Only your insinuation that if we did indeed "follow the money" we wouldn't conclude that the so-called "elites" had a massive boon in wealth since the start of 2020. If anyone wanted to "inconvenience" me in such a manner I would welcome it. His insinuation is that if we followed the money we would see a lot of Republicans pocketing money meant to help people, business aid send to non-existent companies ect.
If we actually followed the money some of the 'elite' would be going to jail and be 'inconvenienced'.
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Northern Ireland27200 Posts
On November 10 2022 06:21 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2022 02:49 WombaT wrote:On November 10 2022 00:59 KwarK wrote:On November 09 2022 23:21 gobbledydook wrote:On November 09 2022 23:06 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2022 22:51 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2022 16:00 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:42 Introvert wrote:On November 09 2022 15:39 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2022 15:26 Introvert wrote:
[quote]
well to take these things together (and it is getting past my bed time), I think the fact that the education bill they passed was so overwhelming popular kind of speaks to both points. it wasn't divisive, and it wasn't just red meat. he let's the left overplay themselves, i mean imagine arguing that it's some great wrong to ban teaching that stuff to kids in kindergarten through 3rd grade. nuts. Yeah, it’s past my bedtime too. Book banning? Don’t Say Gay? Blatantly unconstitutional social media bill? Weird culture war against Disney? Fuck, chartering a plane to send migrants from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard? I mean Jesus Christ, he’s practically been licking camera lenses he’s been so eager for attention. I get it, he’s effective at selling what you’d like people to buy, but come on, don’t try to tell me the guy paying Christina Pushaw is some “common sense” moderate who “doesn’t needlessly antagonize people.” He’s maybe the single most influential figure in deciding Republicans were gonna run on CRT and trans panic this cycle. I didn't say moderate He's a Tea Party type alright. Just again, I guess the word "needlessly" is doing some heavy lifting. but at at the end of tonight's consideration, we ought to think about how he managed to win by so much. Florida is becoming more red, but he did like 15 points better than Trump in 2020. he's convincing someone, or lots of someones. It’s a little early to be narrative-setting, but if we’re picking where to look for answers after this election: how did Republicans not clean house? You’ve repeatedly pointed out inflation, and gas prices, and Biden’s approval rating, and the longstanding historical trend for out-party gains in midterms. Funny you bring up the Tea Party, because last time you guys were here was 2010. How’s tonight looking by comparison? My point isn’t to gloat, you’ll still probably get both houses. My point is that guys like DeSantis got to decide what your party was gonna run on this cycle, and what did they pick? CRT. Trans panic. Culture war, all day every day. Republicans brought that message all over the country, with just about every conceivable wind at their back, and it flopped. Don’t get me wrong, Florida has clearly become Mecca for Christian nationalism, and we should absolutely look at how that happened, but most places that shit doesn’t sell. 1) Low conservative voter turnout 2) Racial admixture 3) GenZ strong woke Fwiw, trans panic is dumb. The obvious ideal optimum for that is everybody shrugs and says "oh your trans. Okay" and pays about as much attention as we would to the sun rising the morning or as we would if you said "hey I'm a girl$ The (local) protected and elevated status in certain groups isn't ideal, but given the overall awful treatment that trans people experience, I don't think it's bad. You're mostly going to get treated way worse as trans (especially FtM), which is rather regrettable. CRT, on the other hand is very problematic Like the actual CRT that is a university option? Or the CRT desantis rails against, which is basically a boogy man of anything ultra right people fear? I think this is a good explanation of the controversy surrounding critical race theory. https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what-is-critical-race-theory-and-why-is-it-under-attack/2021/05In essence the Democrats and Republicans are talking past each other. The Republicans fundamentally oppose the beliefs that underpin critical race theory. The Democrats support those beliefs. Critical race theory in the school teaching context is ultimately a convenient namesake for what could be more accurately called racial equity. As with many things, the Democrats are supporting the expert studied opinion. They’re not supporting it because it’s a vote winner, they’re supporting it because it is historical fact and facts don’t care about your feelings. I was recently unfortunate enough to catch some Fox News in the gym and the talking blob of lard was ranting about how convenient it is that all of the so called experts all happen to support the Democrat point of view. Surely it’s not a coincidence, he raved. Surely they’re all in on it. He suggested we follow the money. It just never occurs to them that the experts came first and that the Democrats listened. Not on CRT, not on police reform, not on homelessness, drug control, trans medical care, public health, or anything else. It’s always a conspiracy to push an agenda. That blind spot in conservative media is amusing to me because it’s a confession, they believe truth is something to be generated in order to support their ideals and they can’t imagine anyone listening first and then generating policy. They also aren’t massive fans of actually following the money. If they actually did they might notice that a fuckton of money was lost due to COVID and maybe all these ‘elites’ might be inconvenienced by that. Eh... every talking point from the AOC/Sanders archetype during the pandemic was about how "the rich got richer." They got richer to the tune of $1.7 trillion according to the title of this article I just googled and didn't bother to readThat's not to say I'm arguing in favor of any "follow the money" conspiracy. Only your insinuation that if we did indeed "follow the money" we wouldn't conclude that the so-called "elites" had a massive boon in wealth since the start of 2020. If anyone wanted to "inconvenience" me in such a manner I would welcome it.
It’s an evocative framing. It’s a bit, IMO off but it sells well.
Tech bros and brosettes made out like bandits sure, they’re not the only rich people, or sectors with influence.
Tourism as a sector is not exactly small fry. Real estate types probably weren’t super happy at working from home reducing demand in lucrative office properties and leases not being renewed. The wider industrial sector had raw output affected by it. Whole supply chains were disrupted across the retail sector.
Etc etc.
If you want to follow the money, you have to actually follow the money, and where it leads.
Not just conclude that tech companies made a killing ergo follow the money Covid is a manufactured conspiracy and stop at that.
These aren’t insubstantial sectors, without pull and influence. These aren’t sectors without a full complement of ‘elites’
That’s the point I’m making if I hadn’t made it clear. I think most conceptions of ‘elites’ people bring to bear tend to be off base because they tend to zone in on one specific group of disliked ‘elites’ to the detriment of others, or indeed that it’s not a monolithic group and there may be active conflict within.
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EPT
