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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On April 26 2022 06:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2022 04:54 Sermokala wrote:
Twitter does not make a profit but the great thing about the stock market in the 2000's and so is that you don't have to actually turn a profit to function as a company. You can base your company's entire existence on government subsidies and yet be able to rail against paying taxes.
Musk isn't going to unban trump I don't think as that would probably be a bridge too far but I can definitely see him take out anyone he doesn't like or for saying anything against his other companies. Elon Musk has described himself as a "free speech absolutist", so I wouldn't be completely surprised if he allows for any/all speech on Twitter (and unbanning anyone who was banned for what they said), assuming he has the capacity to make it so.
Oh so the freedom to claim people actually helping Chilean children are paedophiles? That kind of free speech?
I don’t use Twitter a whole lot outside of following Starcraft craic, my absence will not be felt whatsoever but if a Musk Twitter goes down that road I’m getting rid.
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I'm not saying that Musk is definitely going to remove all rules against certain types of speech from the Twitter ToS, let alone permanently keep them that way, but I wouldn't be shocked if he unbans Trump and others, at least in the short term.
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Here's what he actually said
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2022/04/25/business/elon-musk-twitter-trump-return.amp.html
“Free speech is the bedrock of a functioning democracy, and Twitter is the digital town square where matters vital to the future of humanity are debated,” Mr. Musk said.
"I also want to make Twitter better than ever by enhancing the product with new features, making the algorithms open source to increase trust, defeating the spam bots, and authenticating all humans” he added. “Twitter has tremendous potential — I look forward to working with the company and the community of users to unlock it.”
I honestly don't know what to think about this. At face value I actually agree with him, these services are just too central to our democracy to have them operate under my-house-my-rules models of local censorship. If we are going to moderate them the parameters need to be set by governments and the courts, not a private executive. It might actually be helpful to have a private executive who's standing there going "no u"
Musk is really strange as a character. He's obviously a huge megalomaniac and snake oil salesman, but he's also weirdly trustworthy in some areas because he doesn't need to pull every trick in the book anymore. I think if he said something like "we'll verify you via a photo of your passport and then we will immediately delete it and never link it to your account", I might actually believe him, and that's more than I would have said about Twitter beforehand.
I think it will be a long time before we really see what this means.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On April 26 2022 06:40 Belisarius wrote:Here's what he actually said https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2022/04/25/business/elon-musk-twitter-trump-return.amp.htmlShow nested quote + “Free speech is the bedrock of a functioning democracy, and Twitter is the digital town square where matters vital to the future of humanity are debated,” Mr. Musk said.
"I also want to make Twitter better than ever by enhancing the product with new features, making the algorithms open source to increase trust, defeating the spam bots, and authenticating all humans” he added. “Twitter has tremendous potential — I look forward to working with the company and the community of users to unlock it.” I honestly don't know what to think about this. At face value I actually agree with him, these services are just too central to our democracy to have them operate under my-house-my-rules models of local censorship. If we are going to moderate them the parameters need to be set by governments and the courts, not a private executive. It might end up being helpful to have a private executive who's standing there going "no u" Musk is really strange as a character. He's obviously a huge megalomaniac and snake oil salesman, but he's also weirdly trustworthy in some areas because he doesn't need to pull every trick in the book anymore. I think if he said something like "we'll verify you via a photo of your passport and then we will immediately delete it and never link it to your account", I would actually believe him, and that's more than I would have said about Twitter beforehand. I think it will be a long time before we really see what this means.
Where is he trustworthy exactly?
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On April 26 2022 06:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2022 04:54 Sermokala wrote:
Twitter does not make a profit but the great thing about the stock market in the 2000's and so is that you don't have to actually turn a profit to function as a company. You can base your company's entire existence on government subsidies and yet be able to rail against paying taxes.
Musk isn't going to unban trump I don't think as that would probably be a bridge too far but I can definitely see him take out anyone he doesn't like or for saying anything against his other companies. Elon Musk has described himself as a "free speech absolutist", so I wouldn't be completely surprised if he allows for any/all speech on Twitter (and unbanning anyone who was banned for what they said), assuming he has the capacity to make it so. The problem with allowing any/all speech on Twitter is that that gives the government cause to make the rules for you.
The reason Twitter/Facebook, ect moved against 'fake news' and disinformation is because now they can control what they do, if they do not act on their own accord the government makes them out of concern for public safety and then they get tied up in page after page of bureaucracy.
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A good first step would be for Musk to make sure that the recent college grads who Carry out twitter's content moderation are not acting on unconscious political bias. Apparently he'll also make the algorithms open source, whatever that accomplishes. Generally I would assume that less content moderation will be the way forward, though they can still ban the obvious stuff like violence and obscenity.
Trump apparently will be sticking to truth social even if he gets unbanned.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
He’s not going to do that, he’s a complete fraud and a cunt so there is that.
He’s going to do whatever serves him and his brand well, which is appealing to idiots who get annoyed their dumb ideas get rightly censored.
If he does, anything in terms of transparency I’ll eat my words, but it’s Elon Musk
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On April 26 2022 06:44 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2022 06:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 26 2022 04:54 Sermokala wrote:
Twitter does not make a profit but the great thing about the stock market in the 2000's and so is that you don't have to actually turn a profit to function as a company. You can base your company's entire existence on government subsidies and yet be able to rail against paying taxes.
Musk isn't going to unban trump I don't think as that would probably be a bridge too far but I can definitely see him take out anyone he doesn't like or for saying anything against his other companies. Elon Musk has described himself as a "free speech absolutist", so I wouldn't be completely surprised if he allows for any/all speech on Twitter (and unbanning anyone who was banned for what they said), assuming he has the capacity to make it so. The problem with allowing any/all speech on Twitter is that that gives the government cause to make the rules for you. The reason Twitter/Facebook, ect moved against 'fake news' and disinformation is because now they can control what they do, if they do not act on their own accord the government makes them out of concern for public safety and then they get tied up in page after page of bureaucracy.
I agree. If Musk attempts to change some of those rules, even in good faith, he may run into some problems and be forced to change them back again. I guess we'll see!
On April 26 2022 06:49 Doc.Rivers wrote:
A good first step would be for Musk to make sure that the recent college grads who Carry out twitter's content moderation are not acting on unconscious political bias. Apparently he'll also make the algorithms open source, whatever that accomplishes. Generally I would assume that less content moderation will be the way forward, though they can still ban the obvious stuff like violence and obscenity.
Trump apparently will be sticking to truth social even if he gets unbanned.
This would be an incredibly dumb and limiting move from him - to not return to a legitimately successful social media platform if allowed - so I hope he stays off Twitter, even if he's unbanned from it.
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On April 26 2022 06:43 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2022 06:40 Belisarius wrote:Here's what he actually said https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2022/04/25/business/elon-musk-twitter-trump-return.amp.html “Free speech is the bedrock of a functioning democracy, and Twitter is the digital town square where matters vital to the future of humanity are debated,” Mr. Musk said.
"I also want to make Twitter better than ever by enhancing the product with new features, making the algorithms open source to increase trust, defeating the spam bots, and authenticating all humans” he added. “Twitter has tremendous potential — I look forward to working with the company and the community of users to unlock it.” I honestly don't know what to think about this. At face value I actually agree with him, these services are just too central to our democracy to have them operate under my-house-my-rules models of local censorship. If we are going to moderate them the parameters need to be set by governments and the courts, not a private executive. It might end up being helpful to have a private executive who's standing there going "no u" Musk is really strange as a character. He's obviously a huge megalomaniac and snake oil salesman, but he's also weirdly trustworthy in some areas because he doesn't need to pull every trick in the book anymore. I think if he said something like "we'll verify you via a photo of your passport and then we will immediately delete it and never link it to your account", I would actually believe him, and that's more than I would have said about Twitter beforehand. I think it will be a long time before we really see what this means. Where is he trustworthy exactly?
I am no fan of his, but he does seem to have an actual ideology. He's this giant manchild who will sit at the dinnertable for fucking days rather than back down on not getting dessert. That makes him... perhaps trustworthy isn't the right word, but predictable in narrow areas.
I don't feel like he's the same kind of narcissist as Trump where there's nothing he actually believes in except himself. He has goals outside himself, the question is whether this is one of those goals or whether it's a smokescreen to help him achieve some other goal.
My gut says it's a goal in itself and he's not just here to censor Tesla critics or steal everyone's PII. He's been pretty vocal on privacy and digital citizenship stuff for years. Plus if he just wanted data there are much cheaper companies he could get it from.
You obviously have the opposite read, and I could certainly turn out to be very wrong. We'll see.
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On April 26 2022 06:49 Doc.Rivers wrote:
A good first step would be for Musk to make sure that the recent college grads who Carry out twitter's content moderation are not acting on unconscious political bias. Apparently he'll also make the algorithms open source, whatever that accomplishes. Generally I would assume that less content moderation will be the way forward, though they can still ban the obvious stuff like violence and obscenity.
Trump apparently will be sticking to truth social even if he gets unbanned. Stick to Social Truth? Are you aware that Trump has made a single 'truth' on his own platform, one posted before the service went online, and not been on it since?
As far as Trump is concerned his own platform doesn't even exist.
Trump would 100% come running back to Twitter proclaiming victory of the evil 'Mass Media' the second he would find out he is unbanned.
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Truth social has halved in value from when musk first announced. I'd give it less than a year, closer to 6 months than not. Before it crash's and Trump moves over.
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On April 26 2022 07:01 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2022 06:49 Doc.Rivers wrote:
A good first step would be for Musk to make sure that the recent college grads who Carry out twitter's content moderation are not acting on unconscious political bias. Apparently he'll also make the algorithms open source, whatever that accomplishes. Generally I would assume that less content moderation will be the way forward, though they can still ban the obvious stuff like violence and obscenity.
Trump apparently will be sticking to truth social even if he gets unbanned. Stick to Social Truth? Are you aware that Trump has made a single 'truth' on his own platform, one posted before the service went online, and not been on it since? As far as Trump is concerned his own platform doesn't even exist. Trump would 100% come running back to Twitter proclaiming victory of the evil 'Mass Media' the second he would find out he is unbanned.
I would guess that Trump is contractually obligated to stick to truth social so long as it exists. Apparently he is going to start "truthing" now that it is out of beta.
On April 26 2022 06:53 WombaT wrote:
He’s not going to do that, he’s a complete fraud and a cunt so there is that.
He’s going to do whatever serves him and his brand well, which is appealing to idiots who get annoyed their dumb ideas get rightly censored.
If he does, anything in terms of transparency I’ll eat my words, but it’s Elon Musk
Many have been expressing their scorn for Elon lately but I can't help but wonder if it is only because they politically disagree with him. By all measures SpaceX and Tesla are accomplishing incredible things that are good for the world.
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I have absolutely no idea how this will go. Musk seems like kind of a weirdo and Tesla seems more like a fad than a profitable business. I'm not generally a fan of people who make so much off of government largesse. But maybe he really means what he says. Given the way social media is going with censorship, if this even slows it down I guess that's a good thing.
Isn't there a bunch of Tesla stuff in Xinjiang? That concerns me. So we'll see.
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This seems humorous and popcorn-worthy, and Twitter isn't exactly some kind of crown jewel of our society that we need to treasure, so I'm all for it. Whatever happens I'm sure it'll be worth a laugh.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On April 26 2022 07:27 Doc.Rivers wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2022 07:01 Gorsameth wrote:On April 26 2022 06:49 Doc.Rivers wrote:
A good first step would be for Musk to make sure that the recent college grads who Carry out twitter's content moderation are not acting on unconscious political bias. Apparently he'll also make the algorithms open source, whatever that accomplishes. Generally I would assume that less content moderation will be the way forward, though they can still ban the obvious stuff like violence and obscenity.
Trump apparently will be sticking to truth social even if he gets unbanned. Stick to Social Truth? Are you aware that Trump has made a single 'truth' on his own platform, one posted before the service went online, and not been on it since? As far as Trump is concerned his own platform doesn't even exist. Trump would 100% come running back to Twitter proclaiming victory of the evil 'Mass Media' the second he would find out he is unbanned. I would guess that Trump is contractually obligated to stick to truth social so long as it exists. Apparently he is going to start "truthing" now that it is out of beta. Show nested quote +On April 26 2022 06:53 WombaT wrote:
He’s not going to do that, he’s a complete fraud and a cunt so there is that.
He’s going to do whatever serves him and his brand well, which is appealing to idiots who get annoyed their dumb ideas get rightly censored.
If he does, anything in terms of transparency I’ll eat my words, but it’s Elon Musk Many have been expressing their scorn for Elon lately but I can't help but wonder if it is only because they politically disagree with him. By all measures SpaceX and Tesla are accomplishing incredible things that are good for the world.
I only disagree with what he says, which is frequently idiotic.
Never mind the pesky subject of considerable subsidies for those two entrepreneurial endeavours.
Apparently the Emperor having no Clothes is the way we’re societally doing things now though.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On April 26 2022 08:05 LegalLord wrote:
This seems humorous and popcorn-worthy, and Twitter isn't exactly some kind of crown jewel of our society that we need to treasure, so I'm all for it. Whatever happens I'm sure it'll be worth a laugh.
It’s merely a giant platform where many folks get their information, but hey as you don’t personally value it so its worth the laugh of some billionaire nosing in and doing his thing.
Seems sensible
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On April 26 2022 08:12 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2022 08:05 LegalLord wrote:
This seems humorous and popcorn-worthy, and Twitter isn't exactly some kind of crown jewel of our society that we need to treasure, so I'm all for it. Whatever happens I'm sure it'll be worth a laugh. It’s merely a giant platform where many folks get their information, but hey as you don’t personally value it so its worth the laugh of some billionaire nosing in and doing his thing. Seems sensible
Musk is a con man, and Twitter is a cesspool that has a history of being used by all kinds of scumbags for their ends - including terrorist organizations like ISIS (Twitter investors used to brag about how they're "changing the world" when it was used as a tool to overthrow governments). Far as I'm concerned they belong together.
Many folks get their information from Infowars too, but if some billionaire bought that one for a laugh I'm not sure you'd see that as some great tragedy either. I'm sure the two or three people that I still find worth following on there will find another platform if Twitter gets wrecked in the process.
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It will be interesting to see if there is any back-pedaling on the idea that tech giants should be allowed to moderate their platforms as they please now that Musk has the banhammer.
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On April 26 2022 08:25 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2022 08:12 WombaT wrote:On April 26 2022 08:05 LegalLord wrote:
This seems humorous and popcorn-worthy, and Twitter isn't exactly some kind of crown jewel of our society that we need to treasure, so I'm all for it. Whatever happens I'm sure it'll be worth a laugh. It’s merely a giant platform where many folks get their information, but hey as you don’t personally value it so its worth the laugh of some billionaire nosing in and doing his thing. Seems sensible Musk is a con man, and Twitter is a cesspool that has a history of being used by all kinds of scumbags for their ends - including terrorist organizations like ISIS (Twitter investors used to brag about how they're "changing the world" when it was used as a tool to overthrow governments). Far as I'm concerned they belong together.
This is analogous to saying that chemical weapons have done horrible things, so it's amusing when horrible people acquire them.
On April 26 2022 08:32 JimmiC wrote:
Im kind of depressed that society is in a place where tgis matters as much as it does.
Yup.
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EPT
