EPTHe didn’t invent shit. He is no scientist, no ingeneer and no inventor. History remembers Edison because he participated in development of technologies that change radically human existence. Musk made a company that makes overhyped cars and another one that send rockets with technologies that we have mastered for decades.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3602
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
|
Biff The Understudy
France7896 Posts
He didn’t invent shit. He is no scientist, no ingeneer and no inventor. History remembers Edison because he participated in development of technologies that change radically human existence. Musk made a company that makes overhyped cars and another one that send rockets with technologies that we have mastered for decades. | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland25551 Posts
On April 26 2022 20:45 gobbledydook wrote: By all accounts Thomas Edison was an asshole and driven by making money. Do we then say that him inventing the electric light should therefore be dismissed because he did it to make money? History will remember Elon Musk as a great man. His name will be taught in history books a hundred years in the future. Of that I am certain. Well thank fuck I won’t be alive then :p Edison, while being a well-documented pretty shitty dude in ways, was actually a prolific inventor so there is that. Must be pretty rough being Nikola Tesla, have your shit stolen or suppressed in life, now being invoked as a brand name. | ||
|
farvacola
United States18831 Posts
| ||
|
Biff The Understudy
France7896 Posts
On April 26 2022 21:23 farvacola wrote: I agree that Edison did a lot more as far as invention goes, but his business tactics were similarly aggressive and he was a man driven by vendettas as Menlo Park took off, both of which apply with full force to Musk. And while I'd agree that Musk's companies will probably not constitute watershed entities the way Menlo Park did, it's still too early to be able to say so with any certainty. The point is that Edison isn’t remembered for his companies but for his inventions. And even if we talk purely business, Menlo Parc is memorable because it brought something new and incredibly revolutionary. Musk has zero impact on the life of anyone who doesn’t want an expensive electric car, and even if you do, it’s not like you couldn’t get a Pole Star if Tesla didn’t exist. There are three things I think Musk might be remembered for: 1- A business model that relies entirely on attracting investors through a technocool futuristic image no matter how little the chances of your company ever making money. 2- An integrated supply chain in an industry traditionally as reliant on suppliers as auto manufacturing. That is actually very original and maybe a paradigm change. 3- His participation to the privatization of space exploration. But really, absolutely zero comparison to be made with Edison whatsoever. | ||
|
LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
| ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On April 26 2022 22:06 Biff The Understudy wrote: The point is that Edison isn’t remembered for his companies but for his inventions. And even if we talk purely business, Menlo Parc is memorable because it brought something new and incredibly revolutionary. Musk has zero impact on the life of anyone who doesn’t want an expensive electric car, and even if you do, it’s not like you couldn’t get a Pole Star if Tesla didn’t exist. There are three things I think Musk might be remembered for: 1- A business model that relies entirely on attracting investors through a technocool futuristic image no matter how little the chances of your company ever making money. 2- An integrated supply chain in an industry traditionally as reliant on suppliers as auto manufacturing. That is actually very original and maybe a paradigm change. 3- His participation to the privatization of space exploration. But really, absolutely zero comparison to be made with Edison whatsoever. Eh, I think 1) he might dodge being remembered for because there are so many people who did the same thing but flamed out infinitely worse than Tesla has, making them much funnier and more iconic; Theranos and WeWork are such better examples of that. Though I suppose those might not stand the test of time; there's a good chance him trying to sell his b subways as "the future" takes a similar nosedive. | ||
|
BlackJack
United States10568 Posts
On April 26 2022 18:35 Broetchenholer wrote: Tesla is the worst thing when it comes to electrical cars. We do not need Tesla, we need 800kg cars that are able to drive 110 km/h max for 600 km. Tesla might have contributed to other companies shifting faster, by how much i don't know. SpaceX is cool, but 100% not necessary. Space exploration has had a positive impact on societey for the technology it created and so on, but then this guy wants to shoot rockets from New York to Tokyo, so that ultrarich can travel faster. And all he might have done unintentionally to protect the environment with Tesla is out of the window. He also wants to sell flamethrowers and monorail. And he made all his money by the big soeciety changing for the better paypal, so much contribution, wow. Basically, the man shows on a daily basis, that whatever he does is driven by making money and increasing his ego and that all positive outcomes for society are random byproducts of a brain that wants cool stuff. I’d argue that we “need” electric cars that people want to buy. It’s not actually more green to make shitty slow electric cars if nobody buys them. Those cars already exist. | ||
|
BlackJack
United States10568 Posts
On April 26 2022 20:23 WombaT wrote: It’s the status he’s given and his happiness to accept said status that is con man-esque, it’s not all smoke and mirrors no. People act like he’s done all this single-handedly and he doesn’t do a huge amount to disavow them of this notion that he’s a visionary trans-planetary genius. Depends on one’s level of exposure but the Church of Musk prosthelytising can be a ‘tad’ obnoxious. He’s a savvy businessman who’s overseen some good tech development, some with government funding. If he behaved accordingly rather than well, how he behaves a lot of people would have considerably less of a problem with. He wants to have his cake and eat it, be the saviour of humanity but entirely on his terms, while not getting criticised for it. Very, very spiky when it comes to criticism that one. How long has this ridiculous hyperloop idea been pushed when he could just Google what a train is? To take one example. Or pushing his green credentials while evangelising about crypto. But you do have cool, useful stuff like what you mentioned, or Starlink He’s a flawed bloke like all of us, with a truly ungodly amount of money and power. Nothing really to be done than wait and see what he wants to do with it. To be clear I have no problem with people criticizing Elon Musk. I just think this criticism that paints him as a snake oil salesman is really absurd. Tesla has built the most incredible electric vehicles at a time when it’s becoming obvious electric vehicles are the future. They are also selling more electric vehicles than anyone else. They also have the best network of charging stations. The valuation still seems a bit ridiculous but the notion that he is selling snake oil is, again, really absurd. But I think this is a sign of the times. Here in California there is a super popular burger chain called In-n-Out. Last year they released a statement saying they weren’t going to follow the COVID rules and check peoples vaccine papers. Suddenly the sentiment on their food changed overnight. Everyone was calling it overrated. The San Francisco Chronicle put out an op-Ed the next day calling the food trash, their burgers bland, their fries limp or cardboard textured. It’s not like they changed their recipe. I have no problem if people disagree with something the CEO of a company says or if they want to vote with their dollar and not support that company. It concerns me when people are so caught up in their culture wars or politicking or whatever that they lose all sense of objectivity to the point that they can’t distinguish Tesla from Theranos or ground beef starts to taste different when it touches their taste buds. | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland25551 Posts
Criticism within this thread is specifically at that image and perception, to varying degrees. Or how much Elon Musk gets credit for the work of large amounts of talented engineers and ideas people, or that some of his ventures benefitted rather largely from state investment. Nobody here has compared Tesla to Theranos but you, there are good innovations being produced under his wider empire, I don’t think people actually deny this. He wants to pull the visionary genius saviour of humanity card, so he is judged by his record in that domain and many find it absolutely doesn’t stand up to even rudimentary scrutiny. I’m not seeing much of a connection to the so-called culture wars outside of what Musk himself brings to the table by buying Twitter seemingly on a whim because he has fuck you money. | ||
|
Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
| ||
|
Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On April 27 2022 00:55 JimmiC wrote: Are you suggesting that emotions play a role in decision making? Especially about food? Who knew! No he's saying that one person who isn't even a journalist for that newspaper can write an op ed and change the opinion of the whole world. | ||
|
ChristianS
United States3188 Posts
That said, I do think politics is infecting every corner of life, and I do worry about the effects of that, although I’m more worried about, say, charging families of trans kids with felonies and sending CPS to take their kids away than I am about In N Out’s brand. | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
BlackJack
United States10568 Posts
On April 27 2022 01:12 WombaT wrote: The snake oil is from the general Elon Musk branding exercise, some of which isn’t even his fault. Much of which probably is. Criticism within this thread is specifically at that image and perception, to varying degrees. Or how much Elon Musk gets credit for the work of large amounts of talented engineers and ideas people, or that some of his ventures benefitted rather largely from state investment. Nobody here has compared Tesla to Theranos but you, there are good innovations being produced under his wider empire, I don’t think people actually deny this. He wants to pull the visionary genius saviour of humanity card, so he is judged by his record in that domain and many find it absolutely doesn’t stand up to even rudimentary scrutiny. I’m not seeing much of a connection to the so-called culture wars outside of what Musk himself brings to the table by buying Twitter seemingly on a whim because he has fuck you money. The Theranos-Musk comparison was made a few months ago in the Trading/investing thread by Manit0u. It’s also frequently made by popular YouTuber https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderf00t When someone is called a complete fraud or conman it’s hard to know that the person saying it means to narrowly apply it to one attribute about the person like their branding. | ||
|
plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
| ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
Zambrah
United States7327 Posts
| ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
| ||
