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On April 25 2022 20:45 smille wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2022 18:31 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 25 2022 17:33 smille wrote:
It’s not a fact that “Trump wants to end democracy”. He has merely tried to before, which does not mean he will do so again, right?
But for real, Trump does not have the goal to end democracy in my opinion. Everything he does, seems to be taking basically any opportunity to enrich and empower himself and then deal with the consequences. Unfortunately, ending democracy is one of the things he may do to empower himself, if he finds the opportunity.
Since his presidency is limited to two terms, I assume/hope the chances for this to happen are not as high anymore. After all, he might just prefer another path after his second presidency.
Either way, downplaying the risk of a Trump presidency is just dishonest. I think you've answered your own question -- bolded. It's not like term limits are exactly a failsafe, seeing as losing an election is not exactly a deterrent for him. Yep, kind of. I still think it’s not his goal and therefore not a correct description. With Trump, there is a considerable risk for all sorts of terrible stuff to happen. He has risked a war, abandoned allies and disclosed confidential information to Russians. That is all part of his impulsive and crazy character. Now as for “ending democracy”, the close election was a low-risk and low-effort opportunity to stay in power, which he gladly tried to use. However, because of the term limit, there will be no election where he partakes, and therefore I deem the chance of something like a coup happening far less likely. A coup is risky, and I don’t believe he will take this path another time. This is obviously wishful thinking. And again, Trump poses so many different threats that this discussion is useless. No sane person should prefer Trump over almost any other candidate...
Between Trump and whoever a Democratic nominee is, that's absolutely correct. I wonder, however, in terms of Republican primaries, if Trump is always the worst-case scenario among conservative leaders who currently have a reasonable amount of support. For example, in the upcoming 2024 election, I wonder if the United States would be worse off with a President Donald Trump or a President Ron DeSantis. It really is a race to the bottom within the Republican party.
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Trump is the best of the out and proud fascy-types because hes too dumb and incompetent to properly organize or capitalize on it. God forbid a fascy-type with even a modicum of patience or an attention span that lasts longer than the low single digit seconds loses their re-election bid, assuming they even let it get to a second legitimate election.
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Disclaimer: The following is just my cautious take on Trump. I might not see the full picture of him and would just like to know if I’m completely off or if there is at least some truth to it.
When comparing Trump to other fascists that are or could potentially get into power, the best thing about him is, that he seems to have no agenda. To me, it appears like he has no real hatred for any specific group of people. He caters to those who he benefits from, such as his voter base and temporarily useful allies. Large parts of his base and subordinates are racists, which is kind of a problem though.
Every action he takes seems to be driven by his despicable, egocentric personality. Yes, from time to time, he has made racist comments, I believe to recall. But that is inline with his generally inappropriate rhetoric.
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While Trump had pretty much 0 ideological attachment to anything, which is a plus compared to the nuttier ideologues on the right, the people surrounding him weren't and probably won't be. It's not entirely clear who will be running his campaign in 2024, but if he surrounds himself with the Flynns of the world (Christian nationalists who have totally divorced reality) things might get even uglier than the comparators.
I mean, when you're becoming too toxic and hard to manage for the Steve Bannons and Stephen Millers of the world, you start to get surrounded by the Sidney Powells, Lin Woods, and Mike Flynns. All people who are either grifting off of or genuinely believe Democratic politicians run secret underground bases full of children whose blood they drink, with an even more Christian flair than "standard" QAnon.
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Musk's bid to take over Twitter will be successful, according to reports. I guess it was an offer Twitter couldn't refuse. Nice work Elon.
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Northern Ireland26279 Posts
On April 26 2022 02:23 Doc.Rivers wrote:
Musk's bid to take over Twitter will be successful, according to reports. I guess it was an offer Twitter couldn't refuse. Nice work Elon.
Oh god no, he’s insufferable enough as it is.
Unsure what it actually would hypothetically mean for Twitter mind, although my instincts aren’t positive.
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On April 26 2022 02:43 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2022 02:23 Doc.Rivers wrote:
Musk's bid to take over Twitter will be successful, according to reports. I guess it was an offer Twitter couldn't refuse. Nice work Elon. Oh god no, he’s insufferable enough as it is. Unsure what it actually would hypothetically mean for Twitter mind, although my instincts aren’t positive.
I wonder if this will open some eyes regarding how scary it generally is to have private companies have huge levels of control over public discourse.
Even if you think that they are doing an okay job right now, someone can just come and buy them.
And suddenly that one person has bought control over public discourse at an unprecedented level. If you like Musk (i don't know why you would), imagine this was a billionaire you hate.
Or, if you are sane, recognize that you don't become a billionaire by being a good person.
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On April 26 2022 02:43 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2022 02:23 Doc.Rivers wrote:
Musk's bid to take over Twitter will be successful, according to reports. I guess it was an offer Twitter couldn't refuse. Nice work Elon. Oh god no, he’s insufferable enough as it is. Unsure what it actually would hypothetically mean for Twitter mind, although my instincts aren’t positive.
Not like Musk isnt a petty billionaire known for using companies he owns to be an ass to people who say things he doesnt like, lol. Really, itll probably mean very little except maybe Musk bans a high profile person or two who criticize him, and he'll also very possibly open Twitter up to more hate speech-y type stuff.
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Northern Ireland26279 Posts
On April 26 2022 02:57 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2022 02:43 WombaT wrote:On April 26 2022 02:23 Doc.Rivers wrote:
Musk's bid to take over Twitter will be successful, according to reports. I guess it was an offer Twitter couldn't refuse. Nice work Elon. Oh god no, he’s insufferable enough as it is. Unsure what it actually would hypothetically mean for Twitter mind, although my instincts aren’t positive. I wonder if this will open some eyes regarding how scary it generally is to have private companies have huge levels of control over public discourse. Even if you think that they are doing an okay job right now, someone can just come and buy them. And suddenly that one person has bought control over public discourse at an unprecedented level. If you like Musk (i don't know why you would), imagine this was a billionaire you hate. Or, if you are sane, recognize that you don't become a billionaire by being a good person.
People don’t seem to notice such things in advance of someone doing something they don’t like.
Unsure why really. Conservatives flip from businesses should be allowed to dictate their terms to moaning when businesses do that in this instance, and many on the ostensible left start cheerleading for huge corporations dictating the realms of acceptable discourse.
Personally I think a Facebook or a Twitter are too functionally big to not be subject to some kind of standards, which I’ve alluded to in varying degrees of detail/thought over and over in here. Sure youse are sick of hearing about it.
I don’t think it needs some cracking of a whip but some kind of GDPR equivalent that is too widely enforced to ignore, and helps to balance the various stakeholders in the process.
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I don't care about twatter personally (haven't used it since 2011), so however it goes will be amusing to me.
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Northern Ireland26279 Posts
On April 26 2022 02:58 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2022 02:43 WombaT wrote:On April 26 2022 02:23 Doc.Rivers wrote:
Musk's bid to take over Twitter will be successful, according to reports. I guess it was an offer Twitter couldn't refuse. Nice work Elon. Oh god no, he’s insufferable enough as it is. Unsure what it actually would hypothetically mean for Twitter mind, although my instincts aren’t positive. Not like Musk isnt a petty billionaire known for using companies he owns to be an ass to people who say things he doesnt like, lol. Really, itll probably mean very little except maybe Musk bans a high profile person or two who criticize him, and he'll also very possibly open Twitter up to more hate speech-y type stuff.
It’s remarkable to me how much he’s ostensibly worth, it seems mental.
I’m for obvious reasons not a huge fan of the billionaire class but fucking (nearly) everyone uses Microsoft products, Facebook, bloody Amazon.
I’m unsure why he is supposedly worth such a ridiculous amount of money.
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On April 26 2022 03:32 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2022 02:58 Zambrah wrote:On April 26 2022 02:43 WombaT wrote:On April 26 2022 02:23 Doc.Rivers wrote:
Musk's bid to take over Twitter will be successful, according to reports. I guess it was an offer Twitter couldn't refuse. Nice work Elon. Oh god no, he’s insufferable enough as it is. Unsure what it actually would hypothetically mean for Twitter mind, although my instincts aren’t positive. Not like Musk isnt a petty billionaire known for using companies he owns to be an ass to people who say things he doesnt like, lol. Really, itll probably mean very little except maybe Musk bans a high profile person or two who criticize him, and he'll also very possibly open Twitter up to more hate speech-y type stuff. It’s remarkable to me how much he’s ostensibly worth, it seems mental. I’m for obvious reasons not a huge fan of the billionaire class but fucking (nearly) everyone uses Microsoft products, Facebook, bloody Amazon. I’m unsure why he is supposedly worth such a ridiculous amount of money.
Its the magic of the stock market, hes worth that much because the stock market says he is, I for one am very glad we consider it the measure of our economy here in the US, lol.
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United States43609 Posts
On April 26 2022 03:32 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2022 02:58 Zambrah wrote:On April 26 2022 02:43 WombaT wrote:On April 26 2022 02:23 Doc.Rivers wrote:
Musk's bid to take over Twitter will be successful, according to reports. I guess it was an offer Twitter couldn't refuse. Nice work Elon. Oh god no, he’s insufferable enough as it is. Unsure what it actually would hypothetically mean for Twitter mind, although my instincts aren’t positive. Not like Musk isnt a petty billionaire known for using companies he owns to be an ass to people who say things he doesnt like, lol. Really, itll probably mean very little except maybe Musk bans a high profile person or two who criticize him, and he'll also very possibly open Twitter up to more hate speech-y type stuff. It’s remarkable to me how much he’s ostensibly worth, it seems mental. I’m for obvious reasons not a huge fan of the billionaire class but fucking (nearly) everyone uses Microsoft products, Facebook, bloody Amazon. I’m unsure why he is supposedly worth such a ridiculous amount of money.
Musk got the Tesla board to agree to a stock compensation plan that was loaded with options and was measured primarily of the increase in market cap of Tesla. Not revenue, not sales growth, not market share, just the valuation of Tesla. That means that as the share price goes up he gets paid more, but also since he’s paid in Tesla stock the unit he’s paid in is worth more. And since that stock is in the form of options with a strike price the higher it goes the more efficient that leveraged option payout gets.
Tesla became a meme stock and the valuation went up about 15x (it’s had a 5:1 stock split since it was $420 a few years ago, in real terms it hit like $6k). The Tesla board agreed to some silly stretch goals in the compensation plan (because why wouldn’t you, it’s not like the stock price is gonna go up 2000% and if it does then who even cares at that point we’re all super rich from our own stock) and Tesla hit them.
Musk’s compensation arrangements are unusual even for big tech. He tripled down and it paid off. Bezos etc. aren’t paid the same way because they’re not running meme companies.
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Twitter does not make a profit but the great thing about the stock market in the 2000's and so is that you don't have to actually turn a profit to function as a company. You can base your company's entire existence on government subsidies and yet be able to rail against paying taxes.
Musk isn't going to unban trump I don't think as that would probably be a bridge too far but I can definitely see him take out anyone he doesn't like or for saying anything against his other companies.
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On April 26 2022 04:54 Sermokala wrote:
Twitter does not make a profit but the great thing about the stock market in the 2000's and so is that you don't have to actually turn a profit to function as a company. You can base your company's entire existence on government subsidies and yet be able to rail against paying taxes.
Musk isn't going to unban trump I don't think as that would probably be a bridge too far but I can definitely see him take out anyone he doesn't like or for saying anything against his other companies.
Elon Musk has described himself as a "free speech absolutist", so I wouldn't be completely surprised if he allows for any/all speech on Twitter (and unbanning anyone who was banned for what they said), assuming he has the capacity to make it so.
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Every time someone tries to go for "absolute free speech", they back track within a month. They have no idea how bad humanity really is. This will get smashed into a million pieces quickly after implementation.
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On April 26 2022 06:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2022 04:54 Sermokala wrote:
Twitter does not make a profit but the great thing about the stock market in the 2000's and so is that you don't have to actually turn a profit to function as a company. You can base your company's entire existence on government subsidies and yet be able to rail against paying taxes.
Musk isn't going to unban trump I don't think as that would probably be a bridge too far but I can definitely see him take out anyone he doesn't like or for saying anything against his other companies. Elon Musk has described himself as a "free speech absolutist", so I wouldn't be completely surprised if he allows for any/all speech on Twitter (and unbanning anyone who was banned for what they said), assuming he has the capacity to make it so.
He can describe himself as anything he likes. Do you think he will allow speech about unionizing at Tesla on the platform after he takes over? Is he going to ban the guy who was tracking his flights who refused his pathetic offer. Time will tell, but I am fairly certain that free speech will be forgotten the second it threatens his power in any way.
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EPT
