US Politics Mega-thread - Page 311

On June 20 2018 01:49 On_Slaught wrote:
Trump is going on the offensive rather than doing the right thing. Please note the dehumanizing term "infest" as applied to immigrants, including children escaping violence. Fascists rejoice I guess.

That discussion yesterday is looking pretty prescient. We cant expect Trump to not be evil, so it falls on people like Cruz to help us (lol...). Then you have people like Coulter and Ingram saying these kids are actors or being kept in day spas. Man, what a sad time. History will not look kindly on this time period.

Illegal Immigration Does Not Increase Violent Crime, 4 Studies Show

[F]our academic studies show that illegal immigration does not increase the prevalence of violent crime or drug and alcohol problems. In the slew of research, motivated by Trump's rhetoric, social scientists set out to answer this question: Are undocumented immigrants more likely to break the law?

On June 20 2018 03:43 Jockmcplop wrote:
So Donald Trump is defending his policy of separating kids by saying that immigrants are bad anyway so its ok?

On June 20 2018 02:48 Danglars wrote:

He was. He probably will be again. Trump’s superseding that depending on the day of the week, if it makes you feel any better.

Illegal immigration is a problem. The solution isn’t to keep the border wide open and keep asyluming and amnestying in new arrivals. It’s a physical barrier across most of it, and increased funding and organization for the border patrol/related agencies. This still stands regardless of fixing parent/child separation policies and detention centers from Obama and Bush. Illegal immigrants are lawbreakers and our nation is not just made up of who can make the trip and feels like coming in at any given year. That’s why the debate won’t be fixed.

As an aside, Trump is damn right that Democrats don’t want to fix or compromise on jack shit. They think Republicans will get blamed if they block bills on border security and are perfectly happy to reap the political benefits of the current system.

On June 20 2018 02:54 Plansix wrote:

The child separation policy currently being used is not a Bush or Obama era anything. This is a policy entirely of Trump’s making and can be stopped at any moment. It is not a force of nature or result of enforcing some law.

And the Democrats are not currently blocking any bills on immigration. There are no bills that have a majority of Republican support. The only bill with close to enough votes is one that ends the policy of separating children from their parents. It has 49 democrats signed onto it. That bill would end this problem if it became law. That is the only bill with even a thin hope of passing at this time.

On June 20 2018 02:55 iamthedave wrote:


The Democrats who don't want to compromise who have compromised constantly throughout his Presidency and helped him with most of his legislation?

I mean, the Democrats have been called out in this thread for being far too willing to help the Republicans out of jams.

I don't recall many people saying the Repubs are full of the spirit of compromise though...

On June 20 2018 03:56 Danglars wrote:

Obama chose catch and release with ankle bracelet. That’s an alternative that does not enforce the law. The law on the books makes it a criminal offense for illegal entry (8 usc 1325). Obama even separated parents from children, albeit his enforcement strategy performed it on a small scale than Trump is attempting. That’s selective enforcement of laws. The zero tolerance policy is criminal prosecution for all illegal entries that then claim asylum (long time) where existing court cases say you can’t detain their kids with the parents while waiting for the court date. I’ve only heard two protestations to the contrary: that you aren’t worried about illegal immigrant families cutting off the ankle brace and blending into existing illegal immigrant communities/communities across the US, or laws in general don’t force you to enforce them, so failure to enforce the laws isn’t really failure to enforce the laws.

The bills are just getting off the ground in committee, some haven’t even been submitted. Considering how many Democrats were ok with kids in cages during Obama and family separation (smaller scale) during Obama, I have mixed ideas about success. The current Dem one in committee signed onto by every democratic senator needs so many rewrites it’s hilariois.

On June 20 2018 03:59 Danglars wrote:

Who has compromised constantly? Such as? ACA? Tax cuts? Oh you must mean giant spending increase bills and big bipartisan bills without significant opposition. You haven’t been paying attention to #Resist. You haven’t paid attention to the history of immigration bills focused on amnesty and empty promises of border security. The border is Democrat’s winning hand, and they know this well.

On June 20 2018 03:56 Danglars wrote:

Obama chose catch and release with ankle bracelet. That’s an alternative that does not enforce the law. The law on the books makes it a criminal offense for illegal entry (8 usc 1325). Obama even separated parents from children, albeit his enforcement strategy performed it on a small scale than Trump is attempting. That’s selective enforcement of laws. The zero tolerance policy is criminal prosecution for all illegal entries that then claim asylum (long time) where existing court cases say you can’t detain their kids with the parents while waiting for the court date. I’ve only heard two protestations to the contrary: that you aren’t worried about illegal immigrant families cutting off the ankle brace and blending into existing illegal immigrant communities/communities across the US, or laws in general don’t force you to enforce them, so failure to enforce the laws isn’t really failure to enforce the laws.

The bills are just getting off the ground in committee, some haven’t even been submitted. Considering how many Democrats were ok with kids in cages during Obama and family separation (smaller scale) during Obama, I have mixed ideas about success. The current Dem one in committee signed onto by every democratic senator needs so many rewrites it’s hilariois.

On June 20 2018 04:02 Wulfey_LA wrote:
But but but Obaaaamaaaa at best gets you do Democrats_Are_Bad. It will never get you to DJT_Policy_Is_Good. Whataboutism works when you are in the powerless opposition, but DJT is President now. He has to defend what he is doing, not just smear the past administration.

On June 20 2018 04:11 Doodsmack wrote:


Selective enforcement is routine & necessary and I guarantee the Trump admin does it in other areas. To say that prosecutorial discretion is inherently bad does not really get you to “the law requires Trump to separate families.” It’s his choice and it began in April.

On June 20 2018 04:31 Danglars wrote:

We might even agree if you’re willing to cede that it amounts to selective enforcement of existing laws. I’m against separating families even when the family does not claim asylum at the border/international airports.

A CBS News poll found that 67 per cent fundamentally disagree with the White House's "zero tolerance" drive that has seen more than 2,300 kids taken from their mothers and fathers and held, often inside chain-link pens, at detention centres along the Mexican frontier.

Although it is Democrats (90 per cent opposed) and independents (66 per cent against) who are most outraged.
Republicans are less outraged, with 39 per cent calling the policy unacceptable and almost 20 per cent saying they are still making up their minds.

The US government is moving to tackle the problem of space junk. Shortly after he announced his intentions to create a “space force” wing of the military on Monday, President Trump signed Space Policy Directive-3 (SPD3) at the third meeting of the newly revived National Space Council. It’s the most concerted effort by the US government to spin up a traffic control system for all the objects that orbit Earth.

The directive sets new goals for NASA, the Department of Defense, the Department of Commerce, and the Department of Transportation with the aim of improving each agency’s approach toward mitigating the growing problem of space debris. Those goals include making it easier to detect smaller space junk, improving these agencies’ observation techniques and the algorithms used to process that data, making the data more open and accessible, and spreading out some of the space traffic management tasks to lighten the burden on any one agency.

SPD3 also offers guidance to meet these goals. NASA, for instance, was told that it needs to rework its guidelines for satellite design and production, while the Department of Commerce will take control of how the public will access data about space debris, which was previously the DOD’s purview.

There is a lot of stuff in orbit around our planet. There are nearly 2,000 satellites, two space stations, and tons of debris. In all, there are over 20,000 orbital objects that are bigger than a softball and more than 500,000 that are bigger than a marble. Making sure things don’t crash into each other in orbit is paramount for companies that launch rockets or operate satellites, and the chance of a collision is only growing, especially as the satellite business booms. Meanwhile, someday soon there could be space tourists, adding an even bigger element of mortal danger to the mix.

“Unfettered access and freedom to operate in space are vital to US interests, however the space operating environment is becoming increasingly congested, and current space traffic management activities are inadequate to address this rising challenge,” Scott Pace, the executive secretary of the National Space Council, said on a call with reporters before the signing. “This policy establishes foundational principles, lays out achievable goals, provides specific guidance to achieve each goal, and establishes clear rules and responsibilities for US government departments and agencies.”

On June 20 2018 05:22 Lmui wrote:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/thenational/national-today-newsletter-us-immigration-children-guns-1.4710514

I trust cbc to be more of a neutral party than anyone in the states, and I hope most of you guys do as well. Where the large majority of the disagreement comes:



I find it pretty incredible that a significant portion of Republicans think this is an acceptable practice.

It's an heavily one-sided issue for Democrats, and fairly one-sided for independents. Republicans are split approximately evenly on it.

There's no winning on this for Trump. It's straight up an awful decision, holding kids hostage to try and get a policy win.

On June 20 2018 06:53 Excludos wrote:
Well, the US just pulled out of the UN Human Rights Council, amidst accusations (with evidence) that he's holding children in camps that are well within the definition of "concentration".

There MUST be some backlash from this right? Is it only me who think this just went far far beyond the acceptable line? Even for Trump? Combined with Trump doing everything he can to dehumanize immigrants and minorities, this is now well within acceptable comparison to early Nazi Germany.

edit: I'm not going to provide a source, because every single time I do I get a warning for it no matter how much discussion it provides.

On June 20 2018 06:53 Excludos wrote:
Well, the US just pulled out of the UN Human Rights Council, amidst accusations (with evidence) that he's holding children in camps that are well within the definition of "concentration".

There MUST be some backlash from this right? Is it only me who think this just went far far beyond the acceptable line? Even for Trump? Combined with Trump doing everything he can to dehumanize immigrants and minorities, this is now well within acceptable comparison to early Nazi Germany.

edit: I'm not going to provide a source, because every single time I do I get a warning for it no matter how much discussion it provides. I think this rule is having the opposite effect than planned guys.

On June 20 2018 06:56 mahrgell wrote:


You missed that discussion:

Result: It is a perfectly fine and reasonable move, because other nations also did bad things, and others (in some cases the same as the pervious others) called the US (and Israel) mean names and that is totally rude and thats why the US is leaving the sandbox.