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On January 12 2021 18:44 Broetchenholer wrote:
So, the people that call for less gouvernment and more free markets are now unhappy with the free market making decisions they do not agree with? And Twitter would only be allowed to deplatform conservatives if their religion told them conservatives were against their god? That makes sense. The free market is a good way to bring cheap healthcare to americans but the right to twitter has to be put into an amendment of the constitution?
This is because republicans dont actually stand for anything. You cant point out hypocrisy to them because they just move the goal posts and/or engage in whataboutism.
I actually think its a lost cause trying to find common ground with them. They need to be voted out of every level of government before I think they will actually take a look in the mirror and maybe rejoin reality. Efforts should be made to crush them politically and ignore any of their complaints/arguments until they can prove they are operating in good faith.
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On January 12 2021 21:33 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2021 20:54 DucK- wrote:
Hi all. I generally never understood the west's concept of freedom of speech. What makes trump acceptible to block on twitter/fb, but calls to block religious/racial comics not acceptible? Asking people to revolt on your behalf and exciting people to revolt against you are not the same. If Trump had tweeted "antifa have small peepees" and they would have burned a city in response to that, I would have defended Trump.
Another important differentiation is who is doing the censoring. Freedom of speech (or opinion) is mostly about a relationship between a citizen and the government.
The Trump thing is at its base about the relationship between two private entities (Trump and the company Twitter)
Generally speaking, no one is forced to let you speak your opinion on their medium. You do not have the right to stand on my soapbox and talk. I may allow that to you, or not allow it to me, for whatever reason i choose.
Of course, this gets more complicated when talking about monopoly social media companies, and society needs to have a discussion about how to handle them.
But at this point, the main argument is that as a private company, Twitter can allow or forbid anyone to speak on their platform, in the same way that i can let you on my soapbox or not.
It would be a completely different problem if the government told Trump that he is not allowed to tweet. That would be a classic freedom of speech issue.
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Bisutopia19400 Posts
On January 12 2021 22:04 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2021 18:44 Broetchenholer wrote:
So, the people that call for less gouvernment and more free markets are now unhappy with the free market making decisions they do not agree with? And Twitter would only be allowed to deplatform conservatives if their religion told them conservatives were against their god? That makes sense. The free market is a good way to bring cheap healthcare to americans but the right to twitter has to be put into an amendment of the constitution? This is because republicans dont actually stand for anything. You cant point out hypocrisy to them because they just move the goal posts and/or engage in whataboutism. I actually think its a lost cause trying to find common ground with them. They need to be voted out of every level of government before I think they will actually take a look in the mirror and maybe rejoin reality. Efforts should be made to crush them politically and ignore any of their complaints/arguments until they can prove they are operating in good faith.
It's words like these that strike fire in heart of the opposition. There are tons of conservatives like me that love to talk and treat those with opposing view points with respect. I do not wish to "crush" the liberal left because they believe in a different style of governing this country. I wish everyone on both sides could remember at the end of the day we are all humans trying to do what we feel is best for each other and sometimes we may be right and sometimes we may be wrong. I know this will sound silly, but I wish more people would watch Star Trek/ ST:NG and actually understand the lessons that are supposed to be learned in them.
Regarding the actual topic regarding free market. First I need to make it clear I don't use social media and could care less for Parler as an app. I also 100% agree all these companies have a right to control over who can consume their product. Why, as a conservative, am I upset over the mass shutdown of this company? I'm not upset for conservative reasons. I'm upset because, at the collective will across all the big tech companies in less then 48 hours, put hundreds of families fathers/mothers out of jobs. This is assuming that Parler cannot afford to keep everyone on staff with out a running product. There are ways to make a point or even close someone down, while also being considerate of the victims of this decision. Having the power to just blip a company out of position and put all their employees out of jobs and making the decisions to do so based on "this weeks" popular opinion just sets a very dangerous precedent. I hope something like this in the future doesn't happen to any company regardless of political affiliation and current event.
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On January 12 2021 20:07 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +It's a bit like banning a president from giving interviews in large scale newspapers or mainstream radio stations. No private media outlet has an obligation to print or air anything. They can ignore anything and anyone as they wish, and they absolutely do. If a STATE RUN tv station banned a leading politician it would be more serious. I saw meme going: "To anyone complaining about a private media company kicking Trump off their platform: Think of Twitter as a Christian bakery and Trump as a gay wedding cake." https://twitter.com/JohnSmithChgo/status/1347711178328444928?s=20
Incidentally, does Twitter have a religious opposition to DJT?
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On January 12 2021 22:41 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2021 22:04 Sadist wrote:On January 12 2021 18:44 Broetchenholer wrote:
So, the people that call for less gouvernment and more free markets are now unhappy with the free market making decisions they do not agree with? And Twitter would only be allowed to deplatform conservatives if their religion told them conservatives were against their god? That makes sense. The free market is a good way to bring cheap healthcare to americans but the right to twitter has to be put into an amendment of the constitution? This is because republicans dont actually stand for anything. You cant point out hypocrisy to them because they just move the goal posts and/or engage in whataboutism. I actually think its a lost cause trying to find common ground with them. They need to be voted out of every level of government before I think they will actually take a look in the mirror and maybe rejoin reality. Efforts should be made to crush them politically and ignore any of their complaints/arguments until they can prove they are operating in good faith. It's words like these that strike fire in heart of the opposition. There are tons of conservatives like me that love to talk and treat those with opposing view points with respect. I do not wish to "crush" the liberal left because they believe in a different style of governing this country. I wish everyone on both sides could remember at the end of the day we are all humans trying to do what we feel is best for each other and sometimes we may be right and sometimes we may be wrong. I know this will sound silly, but I wish more people would watch Star Trek/ ST:NG and actually understand the lessons that are supposed to be learned in them. Regarding the actual topic regarding free market. First I need to make it clear I don't use social media and could care less for Parler as an app. I also 100% agree all these companies have a right to control over who can consume their product. Why, as a conservative, am I upset over the mass shutdown of this company? I'm not upset for conservative reasons. I'm upset because, at the collective will across all the big tech companies in less then 48 hours, put hundreds of families fathers/mothers out of jobs. This is assuming that Parler cannot afford to keep everyone on staff with out a running product. There are ways to make a point or even close someone down, while also being considerate of the victims of this decision. Having the power to just blip a company out of position and put all their employees out of jobs and making the decisions to do so based on "this weeks" popular opinion just sets a very dangerous precedent. I hope something like this in the future doesn't happen to any company regardless of political affiliation and current event.
Your political party has been co-opted by fascists. Look at who you are aligning yourself with. You may try to operate on good faith arguments but your party doesn't. Take a look in the mirror and ask yourself is this really who you want to be associated with.
In order to compromise and negotiate it takes two parties operating in good faith. When one party operates exclusively in bad faith it poisons the well. Theres no coming together or inclusivity until they sort their shit out. I dont want to hear about unity when the Republican party has been breeding discontent in our populace since Obamas first term. They have assaulted the truth at every turn. Its OK to be wrong or make mistakes if you are grounded in the truth/facts, no one is perfect. These people dont give a damn about facts and have no remorse for any of their mistakes. Its just attack, attack, attack, power, power, power. The party and everyone associated with it can go fuck themselves for the foreseeable future.
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Bisutopia19400 Posts
On January 12 2021 22:57 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2021 22:41 BisuDagger wrote:On January 12 2021 22:04 Sadist wrote:On January 12 2021 18:44 Broetchenholer wrote:
So, the people that call for less gouvernment and more free markets are now unhappy with the free market making decisions they do not agree with? And Twitter would only be allowed to deplatform conservatives if their religion told them conservatives were against their god? That makes sense. The free market is a good way to bring cheap healthcare to americans but the right to twitter has to be put into an amendment of the constitution? This is because republicans dont actually stand for anything. You cant point out hypocrisy to them because they just move the goal posts and/or engage in whataboutism. I actually think its a lost cause trying to find common ground with them. They need to be voted out of every level of government before I think they will actually take a look in the mirror and maybe rejoin reality. Efforts should be made to crush them politically and ignore any of their complaints/arguments until they can prove they are operating in good faith. It's words like these that strike fire in heart of the opposition. There are tons of conservatives like me that love to talk and treat those with opposing view points with respect. I do not wish to "crush" the liberal left because they believe in a different style of governing this country. I wish everyone on both sides could remember at the end of the day we are all humans trying to do what we feel is best for each other and sometimes we may be right and sometimes we may be wrong. I know this will sound silly, but I wish more people would watch Star Trek/ ST:NG and actually understand the lessons that are supposed to be learned in them. Regarding the actual topic regarding free market. First I need to make it clear I don't use social media and could care less for Parler as an app. I also 100% agree all these companies have a right to control over who can consume their product. Why, as a conservative, am I upset over the mass shutdown of this company? I'm not upset for conservative reasons. I'm upset because, at the collective will across all the big tech companies in less then 48 hours, put hundreds of families fathers/mothers out of jobs. This is assuming that Parler cannot afford to keep everyone on staff with out a running product. There are ways to make a point or even close someone down, while also being considerate of the victims of this decision. Having the power to just blip a company out of position and put all their employees out of jobs and making the decisions to do so based on "this weeks" popular opinion just sets a very dangerous precedent. I hope something like this in the future doesn't happen to any company regardless of political affiliation and current event. Your political party has been co-opted by fascists. Look at who you are aligning yourself with. You may try to operate on good faith arguments but your party doesn't. Take a look in the mirror and ask yourself is this really who you want to be associated with. In order to compromise and negotiate it takes two parties operating in good faith. When one party operates exclusively in bad faith it poisons the well. Theres no coming together or inclusivity until they sort their shit out. I dont want to hear about unity when the Republican party has been breeding discontent in our populace since Obamas first term. They have assaulted the truth at every turn. Its OK to be wrong or make mistakes if you are grounded in the truth/facts, no one is perfect. These people dont give a damn about facts and have no remorse for any of their mistakes. Its just attack, attack, attack, power, power, power. The party and everyone associated with it can go fuck themselves for the foreseeable future.
I'm conservative, I am not represented by the republican party on a federal level that has long been anything but conservative. I stated just the other day I vote libertarian for presidential candidates because neither of the two major parties come close to representing me. And I agree, I could care less for the republican party in white house. I wish it would dissolve and either the libertarian party that has many bright people in it or a new fiscally conservative party would emerge. To be clear, within my state I believe that the republican party has done well and am not ashamed to vote for republicans within my state. If I could move to Kentucky and vote against Mitch McConnell I would.
edit: To add, it's just my great fear that everyone on the left are so angry (rightfully so and completely warranted) that they are going to let that anger allow themselves to overreact. The words used by the left scare me because it like, "Hey the far right tried said fuck everyone let's go as far right as possible. Now that we have control, let's also say fuck everyone and go as far left as possible". It's this massive panic of "We might only have power for 2-4 years to solve every thing we see wrong so let's try and shove as many things down the pipe at once". I totally get the feeling, but my message to the left is pace yourself. Trying to push every left thought possible will only panic everyone who disagrees with you more and then when they get in power they will try and do the same in return to you. It may surprise, but I'm totally open to liberal ideas now that they are in power. Clearly the stuff the conservative party is doing isn't working. I'm just hoping Joe is smart enough to navigate through the issues slowly and effectively instead of letting the trigger happy house push through every bill they write.
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On January 12 2021 22:26 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2021 21:33 Dan HH wrote:On January 12 2021 20:54 DucK- wrote:
Hi all. I generally never understood the west's concept of freedom of speech. What makes trump acceptible to block on twitter/fb, but calls to block religious/racial comics not acceptible? Asking people to revolt on your behalf and exciting people to revolt against you are not the same. If Trump had tweeted "antifa have small peepees" and they would have burned a city in response to that, I would have defended Trump. Another important differentiation is who is doing the censoring. Freedom of speech (or opinion) is mostly about a relationship between a citizen and the government. The Trump thing is at its base about the relationship between two private entities (Trump and the company Twitter) Generally speaking, no one is forced to let you speak your opinion on their medium. You do not have the right to stand on my soapbox and talk. I may allow that to you, or not allow it to me, for whatever reason i choose. Of course, this gets more complicated when talking about monopoly social media companies, and society needs to have a discussion about how to handle them. But at this point, the main argument is that as a private company, Twitter can allow or forbid anyone to speak on their platform, in the same way that i can let you on my soapbox or not. It would be a completely different problem if the government told Trump that he is not allowed to tweet. That would be a classic freedom of speech issue.
Got it. Thanks!
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On January 12 2021 22:41 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2021 22:04 Sadist wrote:On January 12 2021 18:44 Broetchenholer wrote:
So, the people that call for less gouvernment and more free markets are now unhappy with the free market making decisions they do not agree with? And Twitter would only be allowed to deplatform conservatives if their religion told them conservatives were against their god? That makes sense. The free market is a good way to bring cheap healthcare to americans but the right to twitter has to be put into an amendment of the constitution? This is because republicans dont actually stand for anything. You cant point out hypocrisy to them because they just move the goal posts and/or engage in whataboutism. I actually think its a lost cause trying to find common ground with them. They need to be voted out of every level of government before I think they will actually take a look in the mirror and maybe rejoin reality. Efforts should be made to crush them politically and ignore any of their complaints/arguments until they can prove they are operating in good faith. It's words like these that strike fire in heart of the opposition. There are tons of conservatives like me that love to talk and treat those with opposing view points with respect. I do not wish to "crush" the liberal left because they believe in a different style of governing this country. I wish everyone on both sides could remember at the end of the day we are all humans trying to do what we feel is best for each other and sometimes we may be right and sometimes we may be wrong. I know this will sound silly, but I wish more people would watch Star Trek/ ST:NG and actually understand the lessons that are supposed to be learned in them. Regarding the actual topic regarding free market. First I need to make it clear I don't use social media and could care less for Parler as an app. I also 100% agree all these companies have a right to control over who can consume their product. Why, as a conservative, am I upset over the mass shutdown of this company? I'm not upset for conservative reasons. I'm upset because, at the collective will across all the big tech companies in less then 48 hours, put hundreds of families fathers/mothers out of jobs. This is assuming that Parler cannot afford to keep everyone on staff with out a running product. There are ways to make a point or even close someone down, while also being considerate of the victims of this decision. Having the power to just blip a company out of position and put all their employees out of jobs and making the decisions to do so based on "this weeks" popular opinion just sets a very dangerous precedent. I hope something like this in the future doesn't happen to any company regardless of political affiliation and current event. And I am sure there are a bunch of conservatives like you, but that's not the Republican party.
I think events have throw that into clear contrast and the fact that a majority of Republicans apparently still supports Trump and the coup should show how much of a problem this is.
Remembering we should all get along and that we all just want to best only works if that is actually what both sides want, but that is not the reality the US lives in right now.
A majority of Republican House representatives still voted to contest the election result right after their followers attacked the capitol, planted bombs and god only knows what would have happened if they had gotten their hands on any representatives.
To them this is not a difference of political opinion, its a war, and they are fighting it.
I have no real problem with conservatives, just a difference of opinions. And the US would be in a better place with a real Conservative party that actually cares about those values and acts upon them. But what I have seen since the events at the capitol is not a party shocked with itself looking for a way back from the brink, but a doubling down on the road they have taken.
The Republican party and its base as it exists today has no place in a democracy.
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On January 12 2021 20:07 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +It's a bit like banning a president from giving interviews in large scale newspapers or mainstream radio stations. No private media outlet has an obligation to print or air anything. They can ignore anything and anyone as they wish, and they absolutely do.
To me, the big issue with this comparison is that if a private media outlet ever published an ad for a pedophilia ring, its owners would go to jail. Certain parts of youtube are a literal pedoden enabled and encouraged by its recommendation algorithms (and Google makes money off of it), but if it ever comes up in a lawsuit, it's always the "we're just a platform and we do our best to moderate any illegal content." Facebook is just as bad, twitter is slightly less terrible in that regard but it is also home to plenty of stuff that ranges between questionable to downright illegal yet they bear no responsibility whatsoever unlike traditional media.
In my opinion, there has to be an absolutely clear separation between a platform and a media outlet, and there should be absolutely no room for interpretation. Either you're responsible for content you publish and then you're welcome to decide what to publish and what not to however you please aka traditional media, or you're a platform that isn't directly responsible for any illegal shit users post but then your moderation policies have to be clearly defined in accordance with the laws of the state you're operating in and there is no room for any sort of moderation that could be 'open to interpretation.'
edit: and yes Trump is a massive piece of shit and his messages were atrocious, that's really not the point at all.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On January 12 2021 22:41 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2021 22:04 Sadist wrote:On January 12 2021 18:44 Broetchenholer wrote:
So, the people that call for less gouvernment and more free markets are now unhappy with the free market making decisions they do not agree with? And Twitter would only be allowed to deplatform conservatives if their religion told them conservatives were against their god? That makes sense. The free market is a good way to bring cheap healthcare to americans but the right to twitter has to be put into an amendment of the constitution? This is because republicans dont actually stand for anything. You cant point out hypocrisy to them because they just move the goal posts and/or engage in whataboutism. I actually think its a lost cause trying to find common ground with them. They need to be voted out of every level of government before I think they will actually take a look in the mirror and maybe rejoin reality. Efforts should be made to crush them politically and ignore any of their complaints/arguments until they can prove they are operating in good faith. It's words like these that strike fire in heart of the opposition. There are tons of conservatives like me that love to talk and treat those with opposing view points with respect. I do not wish to "crush" the liberal left because they believe in a different style of governing this country. I wish everyone on both sides could remember at the end of the day we are all humans trying to do what we feel is best for each other and sometimes we may be right and sometimes we may be wrong. I know this will sound silly, but I wish more people would watch Star Trek/ ST:NG and actually understand the lessons that are supposed to be learned in them. Regarding the actual topic regarding free market. First I need to make it clear I don't use social media and could care less for Parler as an app. I also 100% agree all these companies have a right to control over who can consume their product. Why, as a conservative, am I upset over the mass shutdown of this company? I'm not upset for conservative reasons. I'm upset because, at the collective will across all the big tech companies in less then 48 hours, put hundreds of families fathers/mothers out of jobs. This is assuming that Parler cannot afford to keep everyone on staff with out a running product. There are ways to make a point or even close someone down, while also being considerate of the victims of this decision. Having the power to just blip a company out of position and put all their employees out of jobs and making the decisions to do so based on "this weeks" popular opinion just sets a very dangerous precedent. I hope something like this in the future doesn't happen to any company regardless of political affiliation and current event.
Crushing sounds, if it didn’t already, a distinctly appealing option. TNG is where it’s at btw. If you were more representative of wider conservatism in the States, then yes some dignified and civil discussions around disagreements, even fundamental ones would certainly be my preference too.
On the other hand people have been whipped up and swallowed so many lies over the past 4 years and beyond that their world views are either insane or on the border entering insane, and really, really hate their political opponents. Which is basically everyone.
You can at least reason with the radical left, they have actual goals grounded in some critiques that have some basis in reality (even if you disagree), how do you reason with the likes of QAnon, or people who do mental gymnastics to venerate Trump no matter how clearly exposed his failings are in any multitude of scenarios.
As per TNG there’s often a ‘see the light’ moment where those indulging in some ethically questionable behaviour themselves come around and change their society, or the Enterprise goes on its merry way with a promise that the Federation will return when the two societies are more closely aligned. Both broad outcomes don’t seem terribly applicable to the current scenario and climate.
I severely limit social media exposure for my own sanity, I should probably emulate you in cutting it off entirely, but it does at least give me some exposure into quite how bad the current situation has got.
As for Parler and that mess, while I do share some concerns and it was a swift and knee-jerk coordinated exile, it is my understanding that AWS had previously warned them about moderation standards, so it wasn’t entirely an overnight decision on their end (although Apple and Google moved rather swiftly).
I have moral qualms with Parler as a business existing full stop, that said I’m not sure how or if they monetised it, although that may be unfair perception based on what I saw of it. It seemed far closer to the sluice valve for hate speech and a total cesspit of bigotry that folks like myself thought it would be than the platform without arbitrary censorship, where important ideas were discussed that it was marketed as.
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Bisutopia19400 Posts
On January 12 2021 23:52 WombaT wrote:
I have moral qualms with Parler as a business existing full stop, that said I’m not sure how or if they monetised it, although that may be unfair perception based on what I saw of it. It seemed far closer to the sluice valve for hate speech and a total cesspit of bigotry that folks like myself thought it would be than the platform without arbitrary censorship, where important ideas were discussed that it was marketed as.
We've learned on TL, that you can have free speech and moderation at the same time. All of us with ban power here on TL have a wide range of political views, but we all moderate under the same level of civility. And there are seriously times where we create an internal thread to discuss whether a decision is right or not. It's obvious that a website like Parler was never going to remain civil in discussion without some level of moderation to cool off heated debates.
Parler isn't a new result on the internet. 4Chan has been a welcome home for these people for nearly two decades now. That place is pretty un-moderated for content and speech. Why would we bother closing 4chan or Parler when both sites are fertile hunting grounds for the FBI? I'm sure there are several people in the FBI upset they have to find out where all the Parler posters are moving to now.
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4chan is actually pretty well moderated these days and has always been somewhat moderated. There were arrests based on posts on it as far back as 2006 for a bomb threat.
They do ban people and they will remove all illegal material and report the posters to the FBI. That's the origin of the more infamous -chans like 8chan, which explicitly don't do those things.
edit - or at least it was well-moderated before Moot left. Apparently one of the main mods has been co-opting the site for the alt right since that (2015) and a ton of former mods are really unhappy about it.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7aap8/the-man-who-helped-turn-4chan-into-the-internets-racist-engine
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On January 12 2021 22:45 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2021 20:07 Slydie wrote:It's a bit like banning a president from giving interviews in large scale newspapers or mainstream radio stations. No private media outlet has an obligation to print or air anything. They can ignore anything and anyone as they wish, and they absolutely do. If a STATE RUN tv station banned a leading politician it would be more serious. I saw meme going: "To anyone complaining about a private media company kicking Trump off their platform: Think of Twitter as a Christian bakery and Trump as a gay wedding cake." https://twitter.com/JohnSmithChgo/status/1347711178328444928?s=20 Incidentally, does Twitter have a religious opposition to DJT?
Trump's political views aren't a protected class, so there's no need for one.
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On January 12 2021 22:57 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2021 22:41 BisuDagger wrote:On January 12 2021 22:04 Sadist wrote:On January 12 2021 18:44 Broetchenholer wrote:
So, the people that call for less gouvernment and more free markets are now unhappy with the free market making decisions they do not agree with? And Twitter would only be allowed to deplatform conservatives if their religion told them conservatives were against their god? That makes sense. The free market is a good way to bring cheap healthcare to americans but the right to twitter has to be put into an amendment of the constitution? This is because republicans dont actually stand for anything. You cant point out hypocrisy to them because they just move the goal posts and/or engage in whataboutism. I actually think its a lost cause trying to find common ground with them. They need to be voted out of every level of government before I think they will actually take a look in the mirror and maybe rejoin reality. Efforts should be made to crush them politically and ignore any of their complaints/arguments until they can prove they are operating in good faith. It's words like these that strike fire in heart of the opposition. There are tons of conservatives like me that love to talk and treat those with opposing view points with respect. I do not wish to "crush" the liberal left because they believe in a different style of governing this country. I wish everyone on both sides could remember at the end of the day we are all humans trying to do what we feel is best for each other and sometimes we may be right and sometimes we may be wrong. I know this will sound silly, but I wish more people would watch Star Trek/ ST:NG and actually understand the lessons that are supposed to be learned in them. Regarding the actual topic regarding free market. First I need to make it clear I don't use social media and could care less for Parler as an app. I also 100% agree all these companies have a right to control over who can consume their product. Why, as a conservative, am I upset over the mass shutdown of this company? I'm not upset for conservative reasons. I'm upset because, at the collective will across all the big tech companies in less then 48 hours, put hundreds of families fathers/mothers out of jobs. This is assuming that Parler cannot afford to keep everyone on staff with out a running product. There are ways to make a point or even close someone down, while also being considerate of the victims of this decision. Having the power to just blip a company out of position and put all their employees out of jobs and making the decisions to do so based on "this weeks" popular opinion just sets a very dangerous precedent. I hope something like this in the future doesn't happen to any company regardless of political affiliation and current event. Your political party has been co-opted by fascists. Look at who you are aligning yourself with. You may try to operate on good faith arguments but your party doesn't. Take a look in the mirror and ask yourself is this really who you want to be associated with. In order to compromise and negotiate it takes two parties operating in good faith. When one party operates exclusively in bad faith it poisons the well. Theres no coming together or inclusivity until they sort their shit out. I dont want to hear about unity when the Republican party has been breeding discontent in our populace since Obamas first term. They have assaulted the truth at every turn. Its OK to be wrong or make mistakes if you are grounded in the truth/facts, no one is perfect. These people dont give a damn about facts and have no remorse for any of their mistakes. Its just attack, attack, attack, power, power, power. The party and everyone associated with it can go fuck themselves for the foreseeable future.
What else do you expect? This is US media and politics.
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Bisutopia19400 Posts
On January 13 2021 00:41 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2021 22:57 Sadist wrote:On January 12 2021 22:41 BisuDagger wrote:On January 12 2021 22:04 Sadist wrote:On January 12 2021 18:44 Broetchenholer wrote:
So, the people that call for less gouvernment and more free markets are now unhappy with the free market making decisions they do not agree with? And Twitter would only be allowed to deplatform conservatives if their religion told them conservatives were against their god? That makes sense. The free market is a good way to bring cheap healthcare to americans but the right to twitter has to be put into an amendment of the constitution? This is because republicans dont actually stand for anything. You cant point out hypocrisy to them because they just move the goal posts and/or engage in whataboutism. I actually think its a lost cause trying to find common ground with them. They need to be voted out of every level of government before I think they will actually take a look in the mirror and maybe rejoin reality. Efforts should be made to crush them politically and ignore any of their complaints/arguments until they can prove they are operating in good faith. It's words like these that strike fire in heart of the opposition. There are tons of conservatives like me that love to talk and treat those with opposing view points with respect. I do not wish to "crush" the liberal left because they believe in a different style of governing this country. I wish everyone on both sides could remember at the end of the day we are all humans trying to do what we feel is best for each other and sometimes we may be right and sometimes we may be wrong. I know this will sound silly, but I wish more people would watch Star Trek/ ST:NG and actually understand the lessons that are supposed to be learned in them. Regarding the actual topic regarding free market. First I need to make it clear I don't use social media and could care less for Parler as an app. I also 100% agree all these companies have a right to control over who can consume their product. Why, as a conservative, am I upset over the mass shutdown of this company? I'm not upset for conservative reasons. I'm upset because, at the collective will across all the big tech companies in less then 48 hours, put hundreds of families fathers/mothers out of jobs. This is assuming that Parler cannot afford to keep everyone on staff with out a running product. There are ways to make a point or even close someone down, while also being considerate of the victims of this decision. Having the power to just blip a company out of position and put all their employees out of jobs and making the decisions to do so based on "this weeks" popular opinion just sets a very dangerous precedent. I hope something like this in the future doesn't happen to any company regardless of political affiliation and current event. Your political party has been co-opted by fascists. Look at who you are aligning yourself with. You may try to operate on good faith arguments but your party doesn't. Take a look in the mirror and ask yourself is this really who you want to be associated with. In order to compromise and negotiate it takes two parties operating in good faith. When one party operates exclusively in bad faith it poisons the well. Theres no coming together or inclusivity until they sort their shit out. I dont want to hear about unity when the Republican party has been breeding discontent in our populace since Obamas first term. They have assaulted the truth at every turn. Its OK to be wrong or make mistakes if you are grounded in the truth/facts, no one is perfect. These people dont give a damn about facts and have no remorse for any of their mistakes. Its just attack, attack, attack, power, power, power. The party and everyone associated with it can go fuck themselves for the foreseeable future. What else do you expect? This is US media and politics.
100%. Media representing both parties just work to incite their base as much as possible. But even if they kept things in check, then you have some social media "influencer" with thousands of followers stirring it up instead. Just watch those "Fyre" documentaries to understand how influencers with no education on a subject incorrectly inform their followers.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On January 13 2021 00:10 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2021 23:52 WombaT wrote:
I have moral qualms with Parler as a business existing full stop, that said I’m not sure how or if they monetised it, although that may be unfair perception based on what I saw of it. It seemed far closer to the sluice valve for hate speech and a total cesspit of bigotry that folks like myself thought it would be than the platform without arbitrary censorship, where important ideas were discussed that it was marketed as.
We've learned on TL, that you can have free speech and moderation at the same time. All of us with ban power here on TL have a wide range of political views, but we all moderate under the same level of civility. And there are seriously times where we create an internal thread to discuss whether a decision is right or not. It's obvious that a website like Parler was never going to remain civil in discussion without some level of moderation to cool off heated debates. Parler isn't a new result on the internet. 4Chan has been a welcome home for these people for nearly two decades now. That place is pretty un-moderated for content and speech. Why would we bother closing 4chan or Parler when both sites are fertile hunting grounds for the FBI? I'm sure there are several people in the FBI upset they have to find out where all the Parler posters are moving to now.
The FBI can’t have been that on the ball given what we saw in the Capitol recently. Although I’m presuming a lack of action on information provided by intelligence agencies is the culprit more so than it lacking.
4chan and other such boards have been a home for such types, agreed there. However they’re a home for all sorts of weird and wonderful folk, they always struck me as a vestige of the more anarchic, Wild West time of the internet.
Which is both bad and good. Parler, either through intent (likely IMO) or circumstance is a more ‘modern’ style of platform that almost exclusively caters for right wing sensibilities, some of which is a tad extreme to say the least.
It may seem a needless differentiation, indeed I may not even be correct with my suspicions re Parler but I do think there’s a difference between it and the older image boards that came before it.
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Canada11607 Posts
I think my concern over the deplatforming thing is just how wide sweeping and how indepth it is. In the cake case, they very much could have gone to a number of shops that would've been happy to make one for them- something about it makes me think they were going for a court case. At the very least, the cake shop in question wasn't going to go after the other cake shops for giving service the couple.
With what we are seeing, it's like you can't use our social media. K, we'll make an alternative. Nope can't use that either. Also, you can't use our website hosts, nor our DDOS protection (and in some case, financial institutes), and it keeps backing up the pipeline. So you need to build a separate internet and separate banks in order to run if big tech decides to run you out of town? But I'm sure there is some private businesses necessary to build one's own internet that could also decide they wouldn't play ball. In an integrated, globalized economy, it's looking like when the big players want you out, you can get chased pretty far up the supporting infrastructure. I don't know. Seems to be heading into some weird territory.
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It's not weird territory, you've simply listed a host of reasons why internet infrastructure must be regarded as a public utility, a process conservatives railed against long before the internet became a thing. This is a quintessential "have your cake and eat it too" problem and the fact that right wingers are only seizing on this "weird territory" now is the worst kind of hypocritical opportunism.
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On January 13 2021 00:59 farvacola wrote:
It's not weird territory, you've simply listed a host of reasons why internet infrastructure must be regarded as a public utility. a process conservatives railed against long before the internet became a thing. This is a quintessential "have your cake and eat it too" problem and the fact that right wingers are only seizing on this "weird territory" now is the worst kind of hypocritical opportunism.
I mean, if the 'normal non-rightwing' people believe that internet infrastructure must be regarded as a public utility and the only reason it isn't is because the right-wingers railed against it, isn't it just as hypocritical for the normal non-rightwing people to now be happy that this sort of thing is happening? Like, if a black cop shot a white guy for no good reason, I can't imagine any half-decent black person saying 'see, that's what u get for not defunding the police!' instead of simply condemning it for a tragedy that it would be.
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