|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On June 14 2018 07:33 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2018 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
I mean I don't know about other people but the significance about this is South Korea believes Kim. The US just has to mind our own business and the situation will improve. What motive does Un have to wild out if the US is actually going to reduce their presence near NK?
NK wants self-determination and the US threat removed. It can get those if the US sticks to it's side. Like 2002 it's probably going to be the US who breaks whatever agreement they managed to outline. Where do you get the impression that SK believes NK? Unlike Trump SK has dealt with NK"s fake promises plenty of times. I see nothing that tells me they particularly believe NK this time. If he follows through that's great for them and they will be very happy. But since there wasn't an actual agreement about de-nuclearization and SK knew nothing about the promise to end military exercises I don't buy it. Nearly 80 Percent of South Koreans Say They Trust Kim Jong Un. You guys do know it was the US who broke the 94 deal right? Everyone (even the US) said NK was following through on their half and then the US failed to uphold it's side. I don't understand why you guys constantly act like NK is at fault for everything. What people on the street think is hardly relative here. Their government believing Kim is what matters.
|
On June 14 2018 07:33 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2018 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
I mean I don't know about other people but the significance about this is South Korea believes Kim. The US just has to mind our own business and the situation will improve. What motive does Un have to wild out if the US is actually going to reduce their presence near NK?
NK wants self-determination and the US threat removed. It can get those if the US sticks to it's side. Like 2002 it's probably going to be the US who breaks whatever agreement they managed to outline. Where do you get the impression that SK believes NK? Unlike Trump SK has dealt with NK"s fake promises plenty of times. I see nothing that tells me they particularly believe NK this time. If he follows through that's great for them and they will be very happy. But since there wasn't an actual agreement about de-nuclearization and SK knew nothing about the promise to end military exercises I don't buy it. Nearly 80 Percent of South Koreans Say They Trust Kim Jong Un. You guys do know it was the US who broke the 94 deal right? Everyone (even the US) said NK was following through on their half and then the US failed to uphold it's side. I don't understand why you guys constantly act like NK is at fault for everything.
President Moon's office doesn't even know what was agreed upon in the US and NK meeting. Their official statement is:“At this point, we need to know President Trump’s exact meaning or intentions,” according to a statement released by Moon’s office.
And the South Korean President will not be briefed until tomorrow by Pompeo.
I don't know why you constantly brush aside South Korea and pretend NK and US are the sole players here.
|
Is this official? Can't find anything to confirm
|
On June 14 2018 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2018 07:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
I mean I don't know about other people but the significance about this is South Korea believes Kim. The US just has to mind our own business and the situation will improve. What motive does Un have to wild out if the US is actually going to reduce their presence near NK?
NK wants self-determination and the US threat removed. It can get those if the US sticks to it's side. Like 2002 it's probably going to be the US who breaks whatever agreement they managed to outline. Where do you get the impression that SK believes NK? Unlike Trump SK has dealt with NK"s fake promises plenty of times. I see nothing that tells me they particularly believe NK this time. If he follows through that's great for them and they will be very happy. But since there wasn't an actual agreement about de-nuclearization and SK knew nothing about the promise to end military exercises I don't buy it. Nearly 80 Percent of South Koreans Say They Trust Kim Jong Un. You guys do know it was the US who broke the 94 deal right? Everyone (even the US) said NK was following through on their half and then the US failed to uphold it's side. I don't understand why you guys constantly act like NK is at fault for everything. What people on the street think is hardly relative here. Their government believing Kim is what matters.
You know SK is a democracy right?
On June 14 2018 07:38 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2018 07:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
I mean I don't know about other people but the significance about this is South Korea believes Kim. The US just has to mind our own business and the situation will improve. What motive does Un have to wild out if the US is actually going to reduce their presence near NK?
NK wants self-determination and the US threat removed. It can get those if the US sticks to it's side. Like 2002 it's probably going to be the US who breaks whatever agreement they managed to outline. Where do you get the impression that SK believes NK? Unlike Trump SK has dealt with NK"s fake promises plenty of times. I see nothing that tells me they particularly believe NK this time. If he follows through that's great for them and they will be very happy. But since there wasn't an actual agreement about de-nuclearization and SK knew nothing about the promise to end military exercises I don't buy it. Nearly 80 Percent of South Koreans Say They Trust Kim Jong Un. You guys do know it was the US who broke the 94 deal right? Everyone (even the US) said NK was following through on their half and then the US failed to uphold it's side. I don't understand why you guys constantly act like NK is at fault for everything. President Moon's office doesn't even know what was agreed upon in the US and NK meeting. Their official statement is: Show nested quote +“At this point, we need to know President Trump’s exact meaning or intentions,” according to a statement released by Moon’s office. And the South Korean President will not be briefed until tomorrow by Pompeo. I don't know why you constantly brush aside South Korea and pretend NK and US are the sole players here.
Of course he didn't know. It was a private conversation and Trump went to the cameras first. I'm not brushing them aside, I literally mention them in the post you quoted.
SK operates mostly as a vassal state for the US, but the population is supportive of reunification (other than millennials that think they are just going to take food out of their mouths). If the US holds up it's side the 1994 deal indicates NK would uphold their side. Probably even more likely as Un seems much more open to the west than his father.
Either of you want to explain why the US failing to meet it's side of the deal isn't the real reason shit escalated in 2002?
|
I've seen nothing about it on his facebook page, just stories about Bezos being a dick, the merger being bad, working class are getting the shaft, Puerto Rico not getting handled properly now that the 15 minutes of looking at a train wreck is over, and Trump's policies being garbage.
|
On June 14 2018 07:47 Gahlo wrote:I've seen nothing about it on his facebook page, just stories about Bezos being a dick, the merger being bad, working class are getting the shaft, Puerto Rico not getting handled properly now that the 15 minutes of looking at a train wreck is over, and Trump's policies being garbage.
Thanks, probably some random poster then
|
On June 14 2018 07:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2018 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
I mean I don't know about other people but the significance about this is South Korea believes Kim. The US just has to mind our own business and the situation will improve. What motive does Un have to wild out if the US is actually going to reduce their presence near NK?
NK wants self-determination and the US threat removed. It can get those if the US sticks to it's side. Like 2002 it's probably going to be the US who breaks whatever agreement they managed to outline. Where do you get the impression that SK believes NK? Unlike Trump SK has dealt with NK"s fake promises plenty of times. I see nothing that tells me they particularly believe NK this time. If he follows through that's great for them and they will be very happy. But since there wasn't an actual agreement about de-nuclearization and SK knew nothing about the promise to end military exercises I don't buy it. Nearly 80 Percent of South Koreans Say They Trust Kim Jong Un. You guys do know it was the US who broke the 94 deal right? Everyone (even the US) said NK was following through on their half and then the US failed to uphold it's side. I don't understand why you guys constantly act like NK is at fault for everything. What people on the street think is hardly relative here. Their government believing Kim is what matters. You know SK is a democracy right? And your point is?
You regularly campaign on points where the majority opinion runs counter to government policy, but now you act like that doesn't happen?
|
On June 14 2018 07:50 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2018 07:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
I mean I don't know about other people but the significance about this is South Korea believes Kim. The US just has to mind our own business and the situation will improve. What motive does Un have to wild out if the US is actually going to reduce their presence near NK?
NK wants self-determination and the US threat removed. It can get those if the US sticks to it's side. Like 2002 it's probably going to be the US who breaks whatever agreement they managed to outline. Where do you get the impression that SK believes NK? Unlike Trump SK has dealt with NK"s fake promises plenty of times. I see nothing that tells me they particularly believe NK this time. If he follows through that's great for them and they will be very happy. But since there wasn't an actual agreement about de-nuclearization and SK knew nothing about the promise to end military exercises I don't buy it. Nearly 80 Percent of South Koreans Say They Trust Kim Jong Un. You guys do know it was the US who broke the 94 deal right? Everyone (even the US) said NK was following through on their half and then the US failed to uphold it's side. I don't understand why you guys constantly act like NK is at fault for everything. What people on the street think is hardly relative here. Their government believing Kim is what matters. You know SK is a democracy right? And your point is? You regularly campaign on points where the majority opinion runs counter to government policy, but now you act like that doesn't happen?
I'm saying it was the US who screwed up the last deal, the South Koreans trust Un, and it's a democracy where they removed the right wing government to work a deal with NK.
I'm getting the impression you're not very familiar with the situation.
|
On June 14 2018 07:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2018 07:38 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 14 2018 07:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
I mean I don't know about other people but the significance about this is South Korea believes Kim. The US just has to mind our own business and the situation will improve. What motive does Un have to wild out if the US is actually going to reduce their presence near NK?
NK wants self-determination and the US threat removed. It can get those if the US sticks to it's side. Like 2002 it's probably going to be the US who breaks whatever agreement they managed to outline. Where do you get the impression that SK believes NK? Unlike Trump SK has dealt with NK"s fake promises plenty of times. I see nothing that tells me they particularly believe NK this time. If he follows through that's great for them and they will be very happy. But since there wasn't an actual agreement about de-nuclearization and SK knew nothing about the promise to end military exercises I don't buy it. Nearly 80 Percent of South Koreans Say They Trust Kim Jong Un. You guys do know it was the US who broke the 94 deal right? Everyone (even the US) said NK was following through on their half and then the US failed to uphold it's side. I don't understand why you guys constantly act like NK is at fault for everything. President Moon's office doesn't even know what was agreed upon in the US and NK meeting. Their official statement is: “At this point, we need to know President Trump’s exact meaning or intentions,” according to a statement released by Moon’s office. And the South Korean President will not be briefed until tomorrow by Pompeo. I don't know why you constantly brush aside South Korea and pretend NK and US are the sole players here. Of course he didn't know. It was a private conversation and Trump went to the cameras first. I'm not brushing them aside, I literally mention them in the post you quoted. SK operates mostly as a vassal state for the US, but the population is supportive of reunification (other than millennials that think they are just going to take food out of their mouths). If the US holds up it's side the 1994 deal indicates NK would uphold their side. Probably even more likely as Un seems much more open to the west than his father.
Yeah, this is what I mean by brushing them aside. You mentioning them is only in the context of "they believe Kim", using a poll taken before any agreement was made.
You outright call them a vassal state, opposed to one of the major regional powers in Asia. Bordered by one nation which has them keeping an active, mandatory enlisted army, and another nation that has made several imperialistic moves in recent decades.
And what exactly does "reunification" mean to you or those polls? Does it mean NK integrating into SK? SK integrating into NK? SK and NK becoming dual-states within a single country?
Either of you want to explain why the US failing to meet it's side of the deal isn't the real reason shit escalated in 2002?
Which incident in 2002 are you referring to and oversimplifying into "US made NK do it"?
|
On June 14 2018 08:02 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2018 07:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:38 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 14 2018 07:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
I mean I don't know about other people but the significance about this is South Korea believes Kim. The US just has to mind our own business and the situation will improve. What motive does Un have to wild out if the US is actually going to reduce their presence near NK?
NK wants self-determination and the US threat removed. It can get those if the US sticks to it's side. Like 2002 it's probably going to be the US who breaks whatever agreement they managed to outline. Where do you get the impression that SK believes NK? Unlike Trump SK has dealt with NK"s fake promises plenty of times. I see nothing that tells me they particularly believe NK this time. If he follows through that's great for them and they will be very happy. But since there wasn't an actual agreement about de-nuclearization and SK knew nothing about the promise to end military exercises I don't buy it. Nearly 80 Percent of South Koreans Say They Trust Kim Jong Un. You guys do know it was the US who broke the 94 deal right? Everyone (even the US) said NK was following through on their half and then the US failed to uphold it's side. I don't understand why you guys constantly act like NK is at fault for everything. President Moon's office doesn't even know what was agreed upon in the US and NK meeting. Their official statement is: “At this point, we need to know President Trump’s exact meaning or intentions,” according to a statement released by Moon’s office. And the South Korean President will not be briefed until tomorrow by Pompeo. I don't know why you constantly brush aside South Korea and pretend NK and US are the sole players here. Of course he didn't know. It was a private conversation and Trump went to the cameras first. I'm not brushing them aside, I literally mention them in the post you quoted. SK operates mostly as a vassal state for the US, but the population is supportive of reunification (other than millennials that think they are just going to take food out of their mouths). If the US holds up it's side the 1994 deal indicates NK would uphold their side. Probably even more likely as Un seems much more open to the west than his father. Yeah, this is what I mean by brushing them aside. You mentioning them is only in the context of "they believe Kim", using a poll taken before any agreement was made. You outright call them a vassal state, opposed to one of the major regional powers in Asia. Bordered by one nation which has them keeping an active, mandatory enlisted army, and another nation that has made several imperialistic moves in recent decades. And what exactly does "reunification" mean to you or those polls? Does it mean NK integrating into SK? SK integrating into NK? SK and NK becoming dual-states within a single country? Show nested quote +Either of you want to explain why the US failing to meet it's side of the deal isn't the real reason shit escalated in 2002? Which incident in 2002 are you referring to and oversimplifying into "US made NK do it"?
The one where they had a deal in 1994 and then the US failed to meet it's side of the deal.
|
On June 14 2018 07:53 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2018 07:50 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
I mean I don't know about other people but the significance about this is South Korea believes Kim. The US just has to mind our own business and the situation will improve. What motive does Un have to wild out if the US is actually going to reduce their presence near NK?
NK wants self-determination and the US threat removed. It can get those if the US sticks to it's side. Like 2002 it's probably going to be the US who breaks whatever agreement they managed to outline. Where do you get the impression that SK believes NK? Unlike Trump SK has dealt with NK"s fake promises plenty of times. I see nothing that tells me they particularly believe NK this time. If he follows through that's great for them and they will be very happy. But since there wasn't an actual agreement about de-nuclearization and SK knew nothing about the promise to end military exercises I don't buy it. Nearly 80 Percent of South Koreans Say They Trust Kim Jong Un. You guys do know it was the US who broke the 94 deal right? Everyone (even the US) said NK was following through on their half and then the US failed to uphold it's side. I don't understand why you guys constantly act like NK is at fault for everything. What people on the street think is hardly relative here. Their government believing Kim is what matters. You know SK is a democracy right? And your point is? You regularly campaign on points where the majority opinion runs counter to government policy, but now you act like that doesn't happen? I'm saying it was the US who screwed up the last deal, the South Koreans trust Un, and it's a democracy where they removed the right wing government to work a deal with NK. I'm getting the impression you're not very familiar with the situation. So you have no proof that the SK government believes NK means it when Trump, a serial liar, claims that NK made an oral commit to de-nuclearize, hopefully by the end of 2020, despite their statement being entirely devoid of anything but the most token of gestures, when such a statement would be a MASSIVE victory that Trump could throw in everyone's face?
You really think that NK wants to get rid of the only tool they have to ensure their continued sovereignty? After the US government said that taking NK's nukes away and then destabilizing the country resulting in the death of its ruler was their preferred outcome? (the Libya solution).
Yes I'm sure SK is perfectly happy to see US troops all leave because Kim gave his pinky promise to be a good boy.
Your going to have to do a hell of a lot better then a street opinion poll taken 2 weeks before the meeting your talking about...
|
On June 14 2018 08:07 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2018 07:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:50 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
I mean I don't know about other people but the significance about this is South Korea believes Kim. The US just has to mind our own business and the situation will improve. What motive does Un have to wild out if the US is actually going to reduce their presence near NK?
NK wants self-determination and the US threat removed. It can get those if the US sticks to it's side. Like 2002 it's probably going to be the US who breaks whatever agreement they managed to outline. Where do you get the impression that SK believes NK? Unlike Trump SK has dealt with NK"s fake promises plenty of times. I see nothing that tells me they particularly believe NK this time. If he follows through that's great for them and they will be very happy. But since there wasn't an actual agreement about de-nuclearization and SK knew nothing about the promise to end military exercises I don't buy it. Nearly 80 Percent of South Koreans Say They Trust Kim Jong Un. You guys do know it was the US who broke the 94 deal right? Everyone (even the US) said NK was following through on their half and then the US failed to uphold it's side. I don't understand why you guys constantly act like NK is at fault for everything. What people on the street think is hardly relative here. Their government believing Kim is what matters. You know SK is a democracy right? And your point is? You regularly campaign on points where the majority opinion runs counter to government policy, but now you act like that doesn't happen? I'm saying it was the US who screwed up the last deal, the South Koreans trust Un, and it's a democracy where they removed the right wing government to work a deal with NK. I'm getting the impression you're not very familiar with the situation. So you have no proof that the SK government believes NK means it when Trump, a serial liar, claims that NK made an oral commit to de-nuclearize, hopefully by the end of 2020, despite their statement being entirely devoid of anything but the most token of gestures, when such a statement would be a MASSIVE victory that Trump could throw in everyone's face? You really think that NK wants to get rid of the only tool they have to ensure their continued sovereignty? After the US government said that taking NK's nukes away and then destabilizing the country resulting in the death of its ruler was their preferred outcome? (the Libya solution). Yes I'm sure SK is perfectly happy to see US troops all leave because Kim gave his pinky promise to be a good boy. Your going to have to do a hell of a lot better then a street opinion poll taken 2 weeks before the meeting your talking about...
This acts like it's not the US who broke the last deal.
|
TLADT24920 Posts
For what it's worth GH, I understand your point here and agree with it somewhat. Still, having nothing in writing means that it's extremely easy to go back on your word too.
|
NK pulled out of the deal after they were accused of enriching uranium. They admitted they were, which was a violation of the Agreed frame work and non proliferation agreement. It also look like 3 years where at any point they could have stopped making nukes.
|
On June 14 2018 08:03 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2018 08:02 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 14 2018 07:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:38 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 14 2018 07:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
I mean I don't know about other people but the significance about this is South Korea believes Kim. The US just has to mind our own business and the situation will improve. What motive does Un have to wild out if the US is actually going to reduce their presence near NK?
NK wants self-determination and the US threat removed. It can get those if the US sticks to it's side. Like 2002 it's probably going to be the US who breaks whatever agreement they managed to outline. Where do you get the impression that SK believes NK? Unlike Trump SK has dealt with NK"s fake promises plenty of times. I see nothing that tells me they particularly believe NK this time. If he follows through that's great for them and they will be very happy. But since there wasn't an actual agreement about de-nuclearization and SK knew nothing about the promise to end military exercises I don't buy it. Nearly 80 Percent of South Koreans Say They Trust Kim Jong Un. You guys do know it was the US who broke the 94 deal right? Everyone (even the US) said NK was following through on their half and then the US failed to uphold it's side. I don't understand why you guys constantly act like NK is at fault for everything. President Moon's office doesn't even know what was agreed upon in the US and NK meeting. Their official statement is: “At this point, we need to know President Trump’s exact meaning or intentions,” according to a statement released by Moon’s office. And the South Korean President will not be briefed until tomorrow by Pompeo. I don't know why you constantly brush aside South Korea and pretend NK and US are the sole players here. Of course he didn't know. It was a private conversation and Trump went to the cameras first. I'm not brushing them aside, I literally mention them in the post you quoted. SK operates mostly as a vassal state for the US, but the population is supportive of reunification (other than millennials that think they are just going to take food out of their mouths). If the US holds up it's side the 1994 deal indicates NK would uphold their side. Probably even more likely as Un seems much more open to the west than his father. Yeah, this is what I mean by brushing them aside. You mentioning them is only in the context of "they believe Kim", using a poll taken before any agreement was made. You outright call them a vassal state, opposed to one of the major regional powers in Asia. Bordered by one nation which has them keeping an active, mandatory enlisted army, and another nation that has made several imperialistic moves in recent decades. And what exactly does "reunification" mean to you or those polls? Does it mean NK integrating into SK? SK integrating into NK? SK and NK becoming dual-states within a single country? Either of you want to explain why the US failing to meet it's side of the deal isn't the real reason shit escalated in 2002? Which incident in 2002 are you referring to and oversimplifying into "US made NK do it"? The one where they had a deal in 1994 and then the US failed to meet it's side of the deal.
Sure, the Agreed Framework broke-down because the US didn't do its part.
|
On June 14 2018 08:13 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2018 08:07 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:50 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
I mean I don't know about other people but the significance about this is South Korea believes Kim. The US just has to mind our own business and the situation will improve. What motive does Un have to wild out if the US is actually going to reduce their presence near NK?
NK wants self-determination and the US threat removed. It can get those if the US sticks to it's side. Like 2002 it's probably going to be the US who breaks whatever agreement they managed to outline. Where do you get the impression that SK believes NK? Unlike Trump SK has dealt with NK"s fake promises plenty of times. I see nothing that tells me they particularly believe NK this time. If he follows through that's great for them and they will be very happy. But since there wasn't an actual agreement about de-nuclearization and SK knew nothing about the promise to end military exercises I don't buy it. Nearly 80 Percent of South Koreans Say They Trust Kim Jong Un. You guys do know it was the US who broke the 94 deal right? Everyone (even the US) said NK was following through on their half and then the US failed to uphold it's side. I don't understand why you guys constantly act like NK is at fault for everything. What people on the street think is hardly relative here. Their government believing Kim is what matters. You know SK is a democracy right? And your point is? You regularly campaign on points where the majority opinion runs counter to government policy, but now you act like that doesn't happen? I'm saying it was the US who screwed up the last deal, the South Koreans trust Un, and it's a democracy where they removed the right wing government to work a deal with NK. I'm getting the impression you're not very familiar with the situation. So you have no proof that the SK government believes NK means it when Trump, a serial liar, claims that NK made an oral commit to de-nuclearize, hopefully by the end of 2020, despite their statement being entirely devoid of anything but the most token of gestures, when such a statement would be a MASSIVE victory that Trump could throw in everyone's face? You really think that NK wants to get rid of the only tool they have to ensure their continued sovereignty? After the US government said that taking NK's nukes away and then destabilizing the country resulting in the death of its ruler was their preferred outcome? (the Libya solution). Yes I'm sure SK is perfectly happy to see US troops all leave because Kim gave his pinky promise to be a good boy. Your going to have to do a hell of a lot better then a street opinion poll taken 2 weeks before the meeting your talking about... This acts like it's not the US who broke the last deal. And this time there is not even a deal to break. Just a serial liar claiming someone else made a promise that somehow is not in their signed statement.
Who broke the last deal is not particularly relevant to NK's willingness to get rid of the nukes they just managed to get when it's the only way to ensure their continued existence.
|
On June 14 2018 08:23 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2018 08:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 08:02 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 14 2018 07:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:38 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 14 2018 07:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
I mean I don't know about other people but the significance about this is South Korea believes Kim. The US just has to mind our own business and the situation will improve. What motive does Un have to wild out if the US is actually going to reduce their presence near NK?
NK wants self-determination and the US threat removed. It can get those if the US sticks to it's side. Like 2002 it's probably going to be the US who breaks whatever agreement they managed to outline. Where do you get the impression that SK believes NK? Unlike Trump SK has dealt with NK"s fake promises plenty of times. I see nothing that tells me they particularly believe NK this time. If he follows through that's great for them and they will be very happy. But since there wasn't an actual agreement about de-nuclearization and SK knew nothing about the promise to end military exercises I don't buy it. Nearly 80 Percent of South Koreans Say They Trust Kim Jong Un. You guys do know it was the US who broke the 94 deal right? Everyone (even the US) said NK was following through on their half and then the US failed to uphold it's side. I don't understand why you guys constantly act like NK is at fault for everything. President Moon's office doesn't even know what was agreed upon in the US and NK meeting. Their official statement is: “At this point, we need to know President Trump’s exact meaning or intentions,” according to a statement released by Moon’s office. And the South Korean President will not be briefed until tomorrow by Pompeo. I don't know why you constantly brush aside South Korea and pretend NK and US are the sole players here. Of course he didn't know. It was a private conversation and Trump went to the cameras first. I'm not brushing them aside, I literally mention them in the post you quoted. SK operates mostly as a vassal state for the US, but the population is supportive of reunification (other than millennials that think they are just going to take food out of their mouths). If the US holds up it's side the 1994 deal indicates NK would uphold their side. Probably even more likely as Un seems much more open to the west than his father. Yeah, this is what I mean by brushing them aside. You mentioning them is only in the context of "they believe Kim", using a poll taken before any agreement was made. You outright call them a vassal state, opposed to one of the major regional powers in Asia. Bordered by one nation which has them keeping an active, mandatory enlisted army, and another nation that has made several imperialistic moves in recent decades. And what exactly does "reunification" mean to you or those polls? Does it mean NK integrating into SK? SK integrating into NK? SK and NK becoming dual-states within a single country? Either of you want to explain why the US failing to meet it's side of the deal isn't the real reason shit escalated in 2002? Which incident in 2002 are you referring to and oversimplifying into "US made NK do it"? The one where they had a deal in 1994 and then the US failed to meet it's side of the deal. Sure, the Agreed Framework broke-down because the US didn't do its part.
There was also the part where we accused them of enriching uranium and buying ballistic missiles from Pakistan and they were like “yep, we are toally doing that in violation of the agreement we signed.” NK was never really that into the Agreed Framework.
|
On June 14 2018 08:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2018 08:23 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 14 2018 08:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 08:02 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 14 2018 07:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:38 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 14 2018 07:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 14 2018 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 14 2018 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
I mean I don't know about other people but the significance about this is South Korea believes Kim. The US just has to mind our own business and the situation will improve. What motive does Un have to wild out if the US is actually going to reduce their presence near NK?
NK wants self-determination and the US threat removed. It can get those if the US sticks to it's side. Like 2002 it's probably going to be the US who breaks whatever agreement they managed to outline. Where do you get the impression that SK believes NK? Unlike Trump SK has dealt with NK"s fake promises plenty of times. I see nothing that tells me they particularly believe NK this time. If he follows through that's great for them and they will be very happy. But since there wasn't an actual agreement about de-nuclearization and SK knew nothing about the promise to end military exercises I don't buy it. Nearly 80 Percent of South Koreans Say They Trust Kim Jong Un. You guys do know it was the US who broke the 94 deal right? Everyone (even the US) said NK was following through on their half and then the US failed to uphold it's side. I don't understand why you guys constantly act like NK is at fault for everything. President Moon's office doesn't even know what was agreed upon in the US and NK meeting. Their official statement is: “At this point, we need to know President Trump’s exact meaning or intentions,” according to a statement released by Moon’s office. And the South Korean President will not be briefed until tomorrow by Pompeo. I don't know why you constantly brush aside South Korea and pretend NK and US are the sole players here. Of course he didn't know. It was a private conversation and Trump went to the cameras first. I'm not brushing them aside, I literally mention them in the post you quoted. SK operates mostly as a vassal state for the US, but the population is supportive of reunification (other than millennials that think they are just going to take food out of their mouths). If the US holds up it's side the 1994 deal indicates NK would uphold their side. Probably even more likely as Un seems much more open to the west than his father. Yeah, this is what I mean by brushing them aside. You mentioning them is only in the context of "they believe Kim", using a poll taken before any agreement was made. You outright call them a vassal state, opposed to one of the major regional powers in Asia. Bordered by one nation which has them keeping an active, mandatory enlisted army, and another nation that has made several imperialistic moves in recent decades. And what exactly does "reunification" mean to you or those polls? Does it mean NK integrating into SK? SK integrating into NK? SK and NK becoming dual-states within a single country? Either of you want to explain why the US failing to meet it's side of the deal isn't the real reason shit escalated in 2002? Which incident in 2002 are you referring to and oversimplifying into "US made NK do it"? The one where they had a deal in 1994 and then the US failed to meet it's side of the deal. Sure, the Agreed Framework broke-down because the US didn't do its part. There was also the part where we accused them of enriching uranium and buying ballistic missiles from Pakistan and they were like “yep, we are toally doing that in violation of the agreement we signed.”
For simplicity's sake, I'm totally willing to say the agreement broke down because the US didn't fund what they agreed to do.
I'm trying to see how it wraps around back to some bizarre NK apologist logic.
|
The agreed framework was a agreement between to parties that never really expected the other side to follow through. And in the end they were both right.
|
Nixon going to china had very real substance in geopolitics despite being a press tour. Flipping the entire asian front in the cold war with a handshake. It was as much as the handshake between kim and moon.
Trump in nk will rely on it changing something more than the peace treaty.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
