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On June 12 2018 22:05 Plansix wrote:It is all pure speculation anyways and not worth debating when there are real problems facing this country right now. Show nested quote +Trump administration launches bid to catch citizenship cheaters
LOS ANGELES — The U.S. government agency that oversees immigration applications is launching an office that will focus on identifying Americans who are suspected of cheating to get their citizenship and seek to strip them of it.
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Director L. Francis Cissna told The Associated Press in an interview that his agency is hiring several dozen lawyers and immigration officers to review cases of immigrants who were ordered deported and are suspected of using fake identities to later get green cards and citizenship through naturalization.
Cissna said the cases would be referred to the Department of Justice, whose attorneys could then seek to remove the immigrants' citizenship in civil court proceedings. In some cases, government attorneys could bring criminal charges related to fraud.
Until now, the agency has pursued cases as they arose but not through a coordinated effort, Cissna said. He said he hopes the agency's new office in Los Angeles will be running by next year but added that investigating and referring cases for prosecution will likely take longer.
"We finally have a process in place to get to the bottom of all these bad cases and start denaturalizing people who should not have been naturalized in the first place," Cissna said. "What we're looking at, when you boil it all down, is potentially a few thousand cases."
He declined to say how much the effort would cost but said it would be covered by the agency's existing budget, which is funded by immigration application fees.
The push comes as the Trump administration has been cracking down on illegal immigration and taking steps to reduce legal immigration to the U.S.
Immigrants who become U.S. citizens can vote, serve on juries and obtain security clearance. Denaturalization — the process of removing that citizenship — is very rare.
The U.S. government began looking at potentially fraudulent naturalization cases a decade ago when a border officer detected about 200 people had used different identities to get green cards and citizenship after they were previously issued deportation orders.
In September 2016, an internal watchdog reported that 315,000 old fingerprint records for immigrants who had been deported or had criminal convictions had not been uploaded to a Department of Homeland Security database that is used to check immigrants' identities. The same report found more than 800 immigrants had been ordered deported under one identity but became U.S. citizens under another.
Since then, the government has been uploading these older fingerprint records dating back to the 1990s and investigators have been evaluating cases for denaturalization.
Earlier this year, a judge revoked the citizenship of an Indian-born New Jersey man named Baljinder Singh after federal authorities accused him of using an alias to avoid deportation.
Authorities said Singh used a different name when he arrived in the United States in 1991. He was ordered deported the next year and a month later applied for asylum using the name Baljinder Singh before marrying an American, getting a green card and naturalizing.
Authorities said Singh did not mention his earlier deportation order when he applied for citizenship.
For many years, most U.S. efforts to strip immigrants of their citizenship focused largely on suspected war criminals who lied on their immigration paperwork, most notably former Nazis.
Toward the end of the Obama administration, officials began reviewing cases stemming from the fingerprints probe but prioritized those of naturalized citizens who had obtained security clearances, for example, to work at the Transportation Security Administration, said Muzaffar Chishti, director of the Migration Policy Institute's office at New York University law school.
The Trump administration has made these investigations a bigger priority, he said. He said he expects cases will focus on deliberate fraud but some naturalized Americans may feel uneasy with the change.
"It is clearly true that we have entered a new chapter when a much larger number of people could feel vulnerable that their naturalization could be reopened," Chishti said.
Since 1990, the Department of Justice has filed 305 civil denaturalization cases, according to statistics obtained by an immigration attorney in Kansas who has defended immigrants in these cases.
The attorney, Matthew Hoppock, agrees that deportees who lied to get citizenship should face consequences but worries other immigrants who might have made mistakes on their paperwork could get targeted and might not have the money to fight back in court.
Cissna said there are valid reasons why immigrants might be listed under multiple names, noting many Latin American immigrants have more than one surname. He said the U.S. government is not interested in that kind of minor discrepancy but wants to target people who deliberately changed their identities to dupe officials into granting immigration benefits.
"The people who are going to be targeted by this — they know full well who they are because they were ordered removed under a different identity and they intentionally lied about it when they applied for citizenship later on," Cissna said. "It may be some time before we get to their case, but we'll get to them." SourceTrump’s administration has now hired bunch of lawyers to review immigrants to see if they lied getting citizenship. Lets be clear, these folks are going to review cases they think are suspect and then try to remove citizenship from the immigrants if they don’t like what they see. I’m not hearing a lot about oversight or why this is a pressing issue. But Sessions and his justice department are acting exactly how everyone expected. We have children being taken from their parents, thrown into camps and now we are “reviewing” recent naturalizations trying to strip American citizens of their citizenship.
Hmm..
Sounds like exactly what I was talking about
Toward the end of the Obama administration, officials began reviewing cases stemming from the fingerprints probe...
It's literally the natural extension of the policy preceding it. What changed is who's running it and their priorities. The concept of tracking down people and revoking their citizenship was an Obama administration policy.
Good luck finding any reporting on it let alone the oversight from then though.
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On June 12 2018 22:18 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 22:05 Plansix wrote:It is all pure speculation anyways and not worth debating when there are real problems facing this country right now. Trump administration launches bid to catch citizenship cheaters
LOS ANGELES — The U.S. government agency that oversees immigration applications is launching an office that will focus on identifying Americans who are suspected of cheating to get their citizenship and seek to strip them of it.
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Director L. Francis Cissna told The Associated Press in an interview that his agency is hiring several dozen lawyers and immigration officers to review cases of immigrants who were ordered deported and are suspected of using fake identities to later get green cards and citizenship through naturalization.
Cissna said the cases would be referred to the Department of Justice, whose attorneys could then seek to remove the immigrants' citizenship in civil court proceedings. In some cases, government attorneys could bring criminal charges related to fraud.
Until now, the agency has pursued cases as they arose but not through a coordinated effort, Cissna said. He said he hopes the agency's new office in Los Angeles will be running by next year but added that investigating and referring cases for prosecution will likely take longer.
"We finally have a process in place to get to the bottom of all these bad cases and start denaturalizing people who should not have been naturalized in the first place," Cissna said. "What we're looking at, when you boil it all down, is potentially a few thousand cases."
He declined to say how much the effort would cost but said it would be covered by the agency's existing budget, which is funded by immigration application fees.
The push comes as the Trump administration has been cracking down on illegal immigration and taking steps to reduce legal immigration to the U.S.
Immigrants who become U.S. citizens can vote, serve on juries and obtain security clearance. Denaturalization — the process of removing that citizenship — is very rare.
The U.S. government began looking at potentially fraudulent naturalization cases a decade ago when a border officer detected about 200 people had used different identities to get green cards and citizenship after they were previously issued deportation orders.
In September 2016, an internal watchdog reported that 315,000 old fingerprint records for immigrants who had been deported or had criminal convictions had not been uploaded to a Department of Homeland Security database that is used to check immigrants' identities. The same report found more than 800 immigrants had been ordered deported under one identity but became U.S. citizens under another.
Since then, the government has been uploading these older fingerprint records dating back to the 1990s and investigators have been evaluating cases for denaturalization.
Earlier this year, a judge revoked the citizenship of an Indian-born New Jersey man named Baljinder Singh after federal authorities accused him of using an alias to avoid deportation.
Authorities said Singh used a different name when he arrived in the United States in 1991. He was ordered deported the next year and a month later applied for asylum using the name Baljinder Singh before marrying an American, getting a green card and naturalizing.
Authorities said Singh did not mention his earlier deportation order when he applied for citizenship.
For many years, most U.S. efforts to strip immigrants of their citizenship focused largely on suspected war criminals who lied on their immigration paperwork, most notably former Nazis.
Toward the end of the Obama administration, officials began reviewing cases stemming from the fingerprints probe but prioritized those of naturalized citizens who had obtained security clearances, for example, to work at the Transportation Security Administration, said Muzaffar Chishti, director of the Migration Policy Institute's office at New York University law school.
The Trump administration has made these investigations a bigger priority, he said. He said he expects cases will focus on deliberate fraud but some naturalized Americans may feel uneasy with the change.
"It is clearly true that we have entered a new chapter when a much larger number of people could feel vulnerable that their naturalization could be reopened," Chishti said.
Since 1990, the Department of Justice has filed 305 civil denaturalization cases, according to statistics obtained by an immigration attorney in Kansas who has defended immigrants in these cases.
The attorney, Matthew Hoppock, agrees that deportees who lied to get citizenship should face consequences but worries other immigrants who might have made mistakes on their paperwork could get targeted and might not have the money to fight back in court.
Cissna said there are valid reasons why immigrants might be listed under multiple names, noting many Latin American immigrants have more than one surname. He said the U.S. government is not interested in that kind of minor discrepancy but wants to target people who deliberately changed their identities to dupe officials into granting immigration benefits.
"The people who are going to be targeted by this — they know full well who they are because they were ordered removed under a different identity and they intentionally lied about it when they applied for citizenship later on," Cissna said. "It may be some time before we get to their case, but we'll get to them." SourceTrump’s administration has now hired bunch of lawyers to review immigrants to see if they lied getting citizenship. Lets be clear, these folks are going to review cases they think are suspect and then try to remove citizenship from the immigrants if they don’t like what they see. I’m not hearing a lot about oversight or why this is a pressing issue. But Sessions and his justice department are acting exactly how everyone expected. We have children being taken from their parents, thrown into camps and now we are “reviewing” recent naturalizations trying to strip American citizens of their citizenship. Hmm.. Sounds like exactly what I was talking about Show nested quote +Toward the end of the Obama administration, officials began reviewing cases stemming from the fingerprints probe... It's literally the natural extension of the policy preceding it. What changed is who's running it and their priorities. The concept of tracking down people and revoking their citizenship was an Obama administration policy. Good luck finding any reporting on it let alone the oversight from then though.
Revoking naturalization due to legitimate fraud is a thing that happens. But it was always due to a referral or due to an investigation by other agencies. There was no task for actively seeking out people to denaturalize. That is what has changed.
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On June 12 2018 21:41 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 21:25 Excludos wrote:On June 12 2018 18:36 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 12 2018 18:27 Excludos wrote:
Can we stop bringing up Hillary Clinton as an excuse for Trumps behaviour please? The two have no correlation. Hillary is not president, Trump is, and thusly he should be held accountable for his own actions. Sorta, but not really. When juxtaposing our choice in 2016 she inevitably has to be mentioned. If we're stuck with two parties it's always relevant to consider what our alternative choice was. It's also fair to cite Libya as the kind of foreign policy we could expect out of a President Hillary (the only other choice besides Trump). The same goes for immigration where people are in a tizzy over sessions when Hillary said almost the same thing. I'm not going to argue that Trump isn't worse (whether he is or not) but the worst thing that can happen is people think Trump is the problem and not our entire government. This is one of the core issues with people today. They chose Trump over Hillary thinking he was a better choice, and then defends their vote by saying "Hillary would have been worse" instead of holding the man in charge accountable for his continuous horrible actions. Your vote doesn't matter any more. The election is over. Hillary is not the president, Trump is, so start holding him to the standards of the position he's suppose to be filling. That's another of the core issues. The abandoning of any responsibility for the political situation. Hillary pushed for Trump to be the Republican nominee. Why would someone who cared about the country purposely push someone they also thought such a danger as their opposition? Because at her very core she'd risk the worst possible president she can imagine to boost her odds of winning a few percent. Trump's not going to be president forever. The problem is when it's not a Republican, Republicans are going to say the same thing and the cycle continues. Remember when Obama was elected, every other sentence was how we can't blame Bush for the mess he left, now liberals want to blame Trump for all sorts of trashy policy that was there before him because he also happens to support it and/or doesn't hide his support. Republicans would be having a conniption if Obama said half the things Trump says in any 24 hour period, same for Hillary, and it goes on and on round and round. Like I said, forget this "hold Trump accountable" stuff (our government is demonstrating quite clearly it's incapable) and start thinking "We need to hold the entire government, more specifically both parties, accountable for their rank incompetence and blatant corruption. Otherwise you might as well just buckle up for Trump's second term and Republicans using the same line to force you not to talk about how unbelievably bad the last Republican presidents have been and the policy that came with them.
We're talking two very different subjects here.
I'm saying you can't defend Trump by doing the old whataboutism because Hillary is not president, while you want to shift the blame of Trump onto both parties instead of just the Republicans. While I think this is hilariously bonkers, it has nothing to do with what I wrote previously about holding Trump accountable for his actions rather than defending him based on hypothetical actions not made by another person who currently has nothing to do with the madman in charge.
You are correct in the assumption that Republicans in congress aren't capable of doing their jobs, but shifting the blame for the current president's wrongdoings onto the Democrats because their nomination didn't get elected his hilariously faulty.
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On June 12 2018 22:27 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 22:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 12 2018 22:05 Plansix wrote:It is all pure speculation anyways and not worth debating when there are real problems facing this country right now. Trump administration launches bid to catch citizenship cheaters
LOS ANGELES — The U.S. government agency that oversees immigration applications is launching an office that will focus on identifying Americans who are suspected of cheating to get their citizenship and seek to strip them of it.
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Director L. Francis Cissna told The Associated Press in an interview that his agency is hiring several dozen lawyers and immigration officers to review cases of immigrants who were ordered deported and are suspected of using fake identities to later get green cards and citizenship through naturalization.
Cissna said the cases would be referred to the Department of Justice, whose attorneys could then seek to remove the immigrants' citizenship in civil court proceedings. In some cases, government attorneys could bring criminal charges related to fraud.
Until now, the agency has pursued cases as they arose but not through a coordinated effort, Cissna said. He said he hopes the agency's new office in Los Angeles will be running by next year but added that investigating and referring cases for prosecution will likely take longer.
"We finally have a process in place to get to the bottom of all these bad cases and start denaturalizing people who should not have been naturalized in the first place," Cissna said. "What we're looking at, when you boil it all down, is potentially a few thousand cases."
He declined to say how much the effort would cost but said it would be covered by the agency's existing budget, which is funded by immigration application fees.
The push comes as the Trump administration has been cracking down on illegal immigration and taking steps to reduce legal immigration to the U.S.
Immigrants who become U.S. citizens can vote, serve on juries and obtain security clearance. Denaturalization — the process of removing that citizenship — is very rare.
The U.S. government began looking at potentially fraudulent naturalization cases a decade ago when a border officer detected about 200 people had used different identities to get green cards and citizenship after they were previously issued deportation orders.
In September 2016, an internal watchdog reported that 315,000 old fingerprint records for immigrants who had been deported or had criminal convictions had not been uploaded to a Department of Homeland Security database that is used to check immigrants' identities. The same report found more than 800 immigrants had been ordered deported under one identity but became U.S. citizens under another.
Since then, the government has been uploading these older fingerprint records dating back to the 1990s and investigators have been evaluating cases for denaturalization.
Earlier this year, a judge revoked the citizenship of an Indian-born New Jersey man named Baljinder Singh after federal authorities accused him of using an alias to avoid deportation.
Authorities said Singh used a different name when he arrived in the United States in 1991. He was ordered deported the next year and a month later applied for asylum using the name Baljinder Singh before marrying an American, getting a green card and naturalizing.
Authorities said Singh did not mention his earlier deportation order when he applied for citizenship.
For many years, most U.S. efforts to strip immigrants of their citizenship focused largely on suspected war criminals who lied on their immigration paperwork, most notably former Nazis.
Toward the end of the Obama administration, officials began reviewing cases stemming from the fingerprints probe but prioritized those of naturalized citizens who had obtained security clearances, for example, to work at the Transportation Security Administration, said Muzaffar Chishti, director of the Migration Policy Institute's office at New York University law school.
The Trump administration has made these investigations a bigger priority, he said. He said he expects cases will focus on deliberate fraud but some naturalized Americans may feel uneasy with the change.
"It is clearly true that we have entered a new chapter when a much larger number of people could feel vulnerable that their naturalization could be reopened," Chishti said.
Since 1990, the Department of Justice has filed 305 civil denaturalization cases, according to statistics obtained by an immigration attorney in Kansas who has defended immigrants in these cases.
The attorney, Matthew Hoppock, agrees that deportees who lied to get citizenship should face consequences but worries other immigrants who might have made mistakes on their paperwork could get targeted and might not have the money to fight back in court.
Cissna said there are valid reasons why immigrants might be listed under multiple names, noting many Latin American immigrants have more than one surname. He said the U.S. government is not interested in that kind of minor discrepancy but wants to target people who deliberately changed their identities to dupe officials into granting immigration benefits.
"The people who are going to be targeted by this — they know full well who they are because they were ordered removed under a different identity and they intentionally lied about it when they applied for citizenship later on," Cissna said. "It may be some time before we get to their case, but we'll get to them." SourceTrump’s administration has now hired bunch of lawyers to review immigrants to see if they lied getting citizenship. Lets be clear, these folks are going to review cases they think are suspect and then try to remove citizenship from the immigrants if they don’t like what they see. I’m not hearing a lot about oversight or why this is a pressing issue. But Sessions and his justice department are acting exactly how everyone expected. We have children being taken from their parents, thrown into camps and now we are “reviewing” recent naturalizations trying to strip American citizens of their citizenship. Hmm.. Sounds like exactly what I was talking about Toward the end of the Obama administration, officials began reviewing cases stemming from the fingerprints probe... It's literally the natural extension of the policy preceding it. What changed is who's running it and their priorities. The concept of tracking down people and revoking their citizenship was an Obama administration policy. Good luck finding any reporting on it let alone the oversight from then though. Revoking naturalization due to legitimate fraud is a thing that happens. But it was always due to a referral or due to an investigation by other agencies. There was no task for actively seeking out people to denaturalize. That is what has changed.
Yeah, sounds like they are formalizing a department to do what Obama administration officials were doing. The fear is they will exploit it. My issue is I don't think they should be doing it at all. That's my point. Everything Trump's done has been made possible by what was always just beneath the surface of US politics. He's just removed the mask and cranked up the volume.
He's the masked magician except instead of wearing a mask and showing how tricks are done on purpose, he's on the jumbotron full-faced and exposing the tricks through his sloppiness and undue confidence.
On June 12 2018 22:34 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 21:41 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 12 2018 21:25 Excludos wrote:On June 12 2018 18:36 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 12 2018 18:27 Excludos wrote:
Can we stop bringing up Hillary Clinton as an excuse for Trumps behaviour please? The two have no correlation. Hillary is not president, Trump is, and thusly he should be held accountable for his own actions. Sorta, but not really. When juxtaposing our choice in 2016 she inevitably has to be mentioned. If we're stuck with two parties it's always relevant to consider what our alternative choice was. It's also fair to cite Libya as the kind of foreign policy we could expect out of a President Hillary (the only other choice besides Trump). The same goes for immigration where people are in a tizzy over sessions when Hillary said almost the same thing. I'm not going to argue that Trump isn't worse (whether he is or not) but the worst thing that can happen is people think Trump is the problem and not our entire government. This is one of the core issues with people today. They chose Trump over Hillary thinking he was a better choice, and then defends their vote by saying "Hillary would have been worse" instead of holding the man in charge accountable for his continuous horrible actions. Your vote doesn't matter any more. The election is over. Hillary is not the president, Trump is, so start holding him to the standards of the position he's suppose to be filling. That's another of the core issues. The abandoning of any responsibility for the political situation. Hillary pushed for Trump to be the Republican nominee. Why would someone who cared about the country purposely push someone they also thought such a danger as their opposition? Because at her very core she'd risk the worst possible president she can imagine to boost her odds of winning a few percent. Trump's not going to be president forever. The problem is when it's not a Republican, Republicans are going to say the same thing and the cycle continues. Remember when Obama was elected, every other sentence was how we can't blame Bush for the mess he left, now liberals want to blame Trump for all sorts of trashy policy that was there before him because he also happens to support it and/or doesn't hide his support. Republicans would be having a conniption if Obama said half the things Trump says in any 24 hour period, same for Hillary, and it goes on and on round and round. Like I said, forget this "hold Trump accountable" stuff (our government is demonstrating quite clearly it's incapable) and start thinking "We need to hold the entire government, more specifically both parties, accountable for their rank incompetence and blatant corruption. Otherwise you might as well just buckle up for Trump's second term and Republicans using the same line to force you not to talk about how unbelievably bad the last Republican presidents have been and the policy that came with them. We're talking two very different subjects here. I'm saying you can't defend Trump by doing the old whataboutism because Hillary is not president, while you want to shift the blame of Trump onto both parties instead of just the Republicans. While I think this is hilariously bonkers, it has nothing to do with what I wrote previously about holding Trump accountable for his actions rather than defending him based on hypothetical actions not made by another person who currently has nothing to do with the madman in charge. You are correct in the assumption that Republicans in congress aren't capable of doing their jobs, but shifting the blame for the current president's wrongdoings onto the Democrats because their nomination didn't get elected his hilariously faulty.
Not sure you understand what I said. Hillary's campaign intentionally elevated Trump hoping he would be the Republican nominee. She did that while telling us she thought he was the biggest threat to the world the US could possibly make president. Of course she bears responsibility for that.
It's not just Republicans that are incapable. Democrats are supporting Trump and his nominees too. You couldn't even get every Democrat to back removing Trump. Hell Democrats are literally trying to elect a US senator that might endorse Trump in 2020. Putting it all on Republicans simply doesn't hold water.
Trump is indefensible in my opinion, but his supporters don't care. Literally all that matters is he's closer to what they want than the alternative. That's exactly how Democrats told people to vote and support people politically. So of course they will defend him by referring to Hillary. Just like Hillary was defended in the context of Trump/Republicans rather than her actions themselves. Same for Obama when he was president. round and round we go.
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On June 12 2018 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 22:27 Plansix wrote:On June 12 2018 22:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 12 2018 22:05 Plansix wrote:It is all pure speculation anyways and not worth debating when there are real problems facing this country right now. Trump administration launches bid to catch citizenship cheaters
LOS ANGELES — The U.S. government agency that oversees immigration applications is launching an office that will focus on identifying Americans who are suspected of cheating to get their citizenship and seek to strip them of it.
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Director L. Francis Cissna told The Associated Press in an interview that his agency is hiring several dozen lawyers and immigration officers to review cases of immigrants who were ordered deported and are suspected of using fake identities to later get green cards and citizenship through naturalization.
Cissna said the cases would be referred to the Department of Justice, whose attorneys could then seek to remove the immigrants' citizenship in civil court proceedings. In some cases, government attorneys could bring criminal charges related to fraud.
Until now, the agency has pursued cases as they arose but not through a coordinated effort, Cissna said. He said he hopes the agency's new office in Los Angeles will be running by next year but added that investigating and referring cases for prosecution will likely take longer.
"We finally have a process in place to get to the bottom of all these bad cases and start denaturalizing people who should not have been naturalized in the first place," Cissna said. "What we're looking at, when you boil it all down, is potentially a few thousand cases."
He declined to say how much the effort would cost but said it would be covered by the agency's existing budget, which is funded by immigration application fees.
The push comes as the Trump administration has been cracking down on illegal immigration and taking steps to reduce legal immigration to the U.S.
Immigrants who become U.S. citizens can vote, serve on juries and obtain security clearance. Denaturalization — the process of removing that citizenship — is very rare.
The U.S. government began looking at potentially fraudulent naturalization cases a decade ago when a border officer detected about 200 people had used different identities to get green cards and citizenship after they were previously issued deportation orders.
In September 2016, an internal watchdog reported that 315,000 old fingerprint records for immigrants who had been deported or had criminal convictions had not been uploaded to a Department of Homeland Security database that is used to check immigrants' identities. The same report found more than 800 immigrants had been ordered deported under one identity but became U.S. citizens under another.
Since then, the government has been uploading these older fingerprint records dating back to the 1990s and investigators have been evaluating cases for denaturalization.
Earlier this year, a judge revoked the citizenship of an Indian-born New Jersey man named Baljinder Singh after federal authorities accused him of using an alias to avoid deportation.
Authorities said Singh used a different name when he arrived in the United States in 1991. He was ordered deported the next year and a month later applied for asylum using the name Baljinder Singh before marrying an American, getting a green card and naturalizing.
Authorities said Singh did not mention his earlier deportation order when he applied for citizenship.
For many years, most U.S. efforts to strip immigrants of their citizenship focused largely on suspected war criminals who lied on their immigration paperwork, most notably former Nazis.
Toward the end of the Obama administration, officials began reviewing cases stemming from the fingerprints probe but prioritized those of naturalized citizens who had obtained security clearances, for example, to work at the Transportation Security Administration, said Muzaffar Chishti, director of the Migration Policy Institute's office at New York University law school.
The Trump administration has made these investigations a bigger priority, he said. He said he expects cases will focus on deliberate fraud but some naturalized Americans may feel uneasy with the change.
"It is clearly true that we have entered a new chapter when a much larger number of people could feel vulnerable that their naturalization could be reopened," Chishti said.
Since 1990, the Department of Justice has filed 305 civil denaturalization cases, according to statistics obtained by an immigration attorney in Kansas who has defended immigrants in these cases.
The attorney, Matthew Hoppock, agrees that deportees who lied to get citizenship should face consequences but worries other immigrants who might have made mistakes on their paperwork could get targeted and might not have the money to fight back in court.
Cissna said there are valid reasons why immigrants might be listed under multiple names, noting many Latin American immigrants have more than one surname. He said the U.S. government is not interested in that kind of minor discrepancy but wants to target people who deliberately changed their identities to dupe officials into granting immigration benefits.
"The people who are going to be targeted by this — they know full well who they are because they were ordered removed under a different identity and they intentionally lied about it when they applied for citizenship later on," Cissna said. "It may be some time before we get to their case, but we'll get to them." SourceTrump’s administration has now hired bunch of lawyers to review immigrants to see if they lied getting citizenship. Lets be clear, these folks are going to review cases they think are suspect and then try to remove citizenship from the immigrants if they don’t like what they see. I’m not hearing a lot about oversight or why this is a pressing issue. But Sessions and his justice department are acting exactly how everyone expected. We have children being taken from their parents, thrown into camps and now we are “reviewing” recent naturalizations trying to strip American citizens of their citizenship. Hmm.. Sounds like exactly what I was talking about Toward the end of the Obama administration, officials began reviewing cases stemming from the fingerprints probe... It's literally the natural extension of the policy preceding it. What changed is who's running it and their priorities. The concept of tracking down people and revoking their citizenship was an Obama administration policy. Good luck finding any reporting on it let alone the oversight from then though. Revoking naturalization due to legitimate fraud is a thing that happens. But it was always due to a referral or due to an investigation by other agencies. There was no task for actively seeking out people to denaturalize. That is what has changed. Yeah, sounds like they are formalizing a department to do what Obama administration officials were doing. The fear is they will exploit it. My issue is I don't think they should be doing it at all. That's my point. Everything Trump's done has been made possible by what was always just beneath the surface of US politics. He's just removed the mask and cranked up the volume. He's the masked magician except instead of wearing a mask and showing how tricks are done on purpose, he's on the jumbotron full-faced and exposing the tricks through his sloppiness and undue confidence.
The officials under Obama were investigating errors found during the finger printing probe. The probe was the result of a conservative watch dog groups investigation into the finger printing of illegal immigrants, in some misguided effort to prove that illegal immigrants were being naturalized through fraud. From my understanding, the entire investigation was mostly a wild goose chase, but one that the administration was forced to go on due to pressure from conservative congress members.
So I agree with you, Obama shouldn’t have conducted the investigation and told the conservatives to shove it up their ass. But that isn’t what happened.
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On June 12 2018 22:47 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 12 2018 22:27 Plansix wrote:On June 12 2018 22:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 12 2018 22:05 Plansix wrote:It is all pure speculation anyways and not worth debating when there are real problems facing this country right now. Trump administration launches bid to catch citizenship cheaters
LOS ANGELES — The U.S. government agency that oversees immigration applications is launching an office that will focus on identifying Americans who are suspected of cheating to get their citizenship and seek to strip them of it.
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Director L. Francis Cissna told The Associated Press in an interview that his agency is hiring several dozen lawyers and immigration officers to review cases of immigrants who were ordered deported and are suspected of using fake identities to later get green cards and citizenship through naturalization.
Cissna said the cases would be referred to the Department of Justice, whose attorneys could then seek to remove the immigrants' citizenship in civil court proceedings. In some cases, government attorneys could bring criminal charges related to fraud.
Until now, the agency has pursued cases as they arose but not through a coordinated effort, Cissna said. He said he hopes the agency's new office in Los Angeles will be running by next year but added that investigating and referring cases for prosecution will likely take longer.
"We finally have a process in place to get to the bottom of all these bad cases and start denaturalizing people who should not have been naturalized in the first place," Cissna said. "What we're looking at, when you boil it all down, is potentially a few thousand cases."
He declined to say how much the effort would cost but said it would be covered by the agency's existing budget, which is funded by immigration application fees.
The push comes as the Trump administration has been cracking down on illegal immigration and taking steps to reduce legal immigration to the U.S.
Immigrants who become U.S. citizens can vote, serve on juries and obtain security clearance. Denaturalization — the process of removing that citizenship — is very rare.
The U.S. government began looking at potentially fraudulent naturalization cases a decade ago when a border officer detected about 200 people had used different identities to get green cards and citizenship after they were previously issued deportation orders.
In September 2016, an internal watchdog reported that 315,000 old fingerprint records for immigrants who had been deported or had criminal convictions had not been uploaded to a Department of Homeland Security database that is used to check immigrants' identities. The same report found more than 800 immigrants had been ordered deported under one identity but became U.S. citizens under another.
Since then, the government has been uploading these older fingerprint records dating back to the 1990s and investigators have been evaluating cases for denaturalization.
Earlier this year, a judge revoked the citizenship of an Indian-born New Jersey man named Baljinder Singh after federal authorities accused him of using an alias to avoid deportation.
Authorities said Singh used a different name when he arrived in the United States in 1991. He was ordered deported the next year and a month later applied for asylum using the name Baljinder Singh before marrying an American, getting a green card and naturalizing.
Authorities said Singh did not mention his earlier deportation order when he applied for citizenship.
For many years, most U.S. efforts to strip immigrants of their citizenship focused largely on suspected war criminals who lied on their immigration paperwork, most notably former Nazis.
Toward the end of the Obama administration, officials began reviewing cases stemming from the fingerprints probe but prioritized those of naturalized citizens who had obtained security clearances, for example, to work at the Transportation Security Administration, said Muzaffar Chishti, director of the Migration Policy Institute's office at New York University law school.
The Trump administration has made these investigations a bigger priority, he said. He said he expects cases will focus on deliberate fraud but some naturalized Americans may feel uneasy with the change.
"It is clearly true that we have entered a new chapter when a much larger number of people could feel vulnerable that their naturalization could be reopened," Chishti said.
Since 1990, the Department of Justice has filed 305 civil denaturalization cases, according to statistics obtained by an immigration attorney in Kansas who has defended immigrants in these cases.
The attorney, Matthew Hoppock, agrees that deportees who lied to get citizenship should face consequences but worries other immigrants who might have made mistakes on their paperwork could get targeted and might not have the money to fight back in court.
Cissna said there are valid reasons why immigrants might be listed under multiple names, noting many Latin American immigrants have more than one surname. He said the U.S. government is not interested in that kind of minor discrepancy but wants to target people who deliberately changed their identities to dupe officials into granting immigration benefits.
"The people who are going to be targeted by this — they know full well who they are because they were ordered removed under a different identity and they intentionally lied about it when they applied for citizenship later on," Cissna said. "It may be some time before we get to their case, but we'll get to them." SourceTrump’s administration has now hired bunch of lawyers to review immigrants to see if they lied getting citizenship. Lets be clear, these folks are going to review cases they think are suspect and then try to remove citizenship from the immigrants if they don’t like what they see. I’m not hearing a lot about oversight or why this is a pressing issue. But Sessions and his justice department are acting exactly how everyone expected. We have children being taken from their parents, thrown into camps and now we are “reviewing” recent naturalizations trying to strip American citizens of their citizenship. Hmm.. Sounds like exactly what I was talking about Toward the end of the Obama administration, officials began reviewing cases stemming from the fingerprints probe... It's literally the natural extension of the policy preceding it. What changed is who's running it and their priorities. The concept of tracking down people and revoking their citizenship was an Obama administration policy. Good luck finding any reporting on it let alone the oversight from then though. Revoking naturalization due to legitimate fraud is a thing that happens. But it was always due to a referral or due to an investigation by other agencies. There was no task for actively seeking out people to denaturalize. That is what has changed. Yeah, sounds like they are formalizing a department to do what Obama administration officials were doing. The fear is they will exploit it. My issue is I don't think they should be doing it at all. That's my point. Everything Trump's done has been made possible by what was always just beneath the surface of US politics. He's just removed the mask and cranked up the volume. He's the masked magician except instead of wearing a mask and showing how tricks are done on purpose, he's on the jumbotron full-faced and exposing the tricks through his sloppiness and undue confidence. The officials under Obama were investigating errors found during the finger printing probe. The probe was the result of a conservative watch dog groups investigation into the finger printing of illegal immigrants, in some misguided effort to prove that illegal immigrants were being naturalized through fraud. From my understanding, the entire investigation was mostly a wild goose chase, but one that the administration was forced to go on due to pressure from conservative congress members. So I agree with you, Obama shouldn’t have conducted the investigation and told the conservatives to shove it up their ass. But that isn’t what happened.
Opening the door for Trump to continue it and rightfully point to Obama doing it first undermining the outrage from liberals who didn't even know it was happening until it became something to be scared of Trump for.
That's how this keeps going. Same for using refugee children to send a message, tax cuts for the wealthy, big banks getting away with theft/fraud on unimaginable levels, corruption, bombing civilians, extrajudicial assassinations of US citizens, the list goes on and on.
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And the progressives didn’t care about it at all until it was a way to attack the liberals.
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One thing we can all agree on, there is way too much hypocrisy in politics.
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So are we in agreement that everything Trump has done in a year and a half either indirectly, or directly, benefits Russia and Putin? Up to and including this bullshit "concession". It seems pretty clear cut that rather than being as stupid as people think, he's literally just a Russian asset working for them, and has been for decades. And how about that honesty about lying? "It may not work out. But I'll come up with an excuse". He said on television to everyone that he plans to lie about things that don't go his way. And yet some people eat it up. I have already heard people say "so honest. Much Presidential. Very historic". Fucking morons.
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On June 12 2018 23:21 Plansix wrote:
And the progressives didn’t care about it at all until it was a way to attack the liberals.
Probably many of them. For lots of the same reasons liberals didn't/don't care beyond using it to attack Trump. As is the case with many of other issues that follow the same pattern I've been describing.
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Trump apparently has promised to end our war games with S. Korea and they seem to have been caught off guard (dunno what he got in return... maybe 1% less human rights abuses?). On a scale of None to Fuck All, what are the chances Trump consulted with the south about this or any number of other concessions which affect the south before offering them?
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On June 13 2018 00:16 On_Slaught wrote:Trump apparently has promised to end our war games with S. Korea and they seem to have been caught off guard (dunno what he got in return... maybe 1% less human rights abuses?). On a scale of None to Fuck All, what are the chances Trump consulted with the south about this or any number of other concessions which affect the south before offering them? https://twitter.com/BillNeelyNBC/status/1006475992821465088
Also worth noting, as I mentioned above, that this is yet another thing that Putin will be pleased with. His motives are so obvious. It's simultaneously terrifying and nauseating to watch what he's doing to our country.
And you have networks like Fox sucking his dick and CNN who will put any right-wing nutjob on to start arguments and get ratings. Jason Miller? Kaleigh Mcerneneryeneryerney? Jeffrey Lord? Exactly the type of horseshit that made me stop watching. STOP ACTING LIKE HIS LIES AND BULLSHIT ARE SOMEHOW A VALID POINT OF VIEW. THEY. ARE. NOT.
User was warned for this post.
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On June 12 2018 23:54 Ayaz2810 wrote:
So are we in agreement that everything Trump has done in a year and a half either indirectly, or directly, benefits Russia and Putin? Up to and including this bullshit "concession". It seems pretty clear cut that rather than being as stupid as people think, he's literally just a Russian asset working for them, and has been for decades. And how about that honesty about lying? "It may not work out. But I'll come up with an excuse". He said on television to everyone that he plans to lie about things that don't go his way. And yet some people eat it up. I have already heard people say "so honest. Much Presidential. Very historic". Fucking morons.
Quite the reverse. New sanctions from the Treasury. Major arms shipped to Ukraine (including anti-tank missiles). Expulsion of diplomats. Public condemnation, by his political appointees, of Russians actions like the nerve gas attack and Russian support for Assad. His military also killed dozens/hundreds of Russian mercenaries in Syria.
Anyone who thinks Trump is “literally just a Russian asset working for them, and has been for decades” and others are “fucking morons” probably is too invested in that narrative for reconsideration. That’s a little extreme.
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To add to my previous post, apparently the Pentagon was caught off guard as well. As expected, he lacks the discipline to to be a successful negotiator. See the comment from the ex ambassador.
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On June 13 2018 00:16 On_Slaught wrote:Trump apparently has promised to end our war games with S. Korea and they seem to have been caught off guard (dunno what he got in return... maybe 1% less human rights abuses?). On a scale of None to Fuck All, what are the chances Trump consulted with the south about this or any number of other concessions which affect the south before offering them? https://twitter.com/BillNeelyNBC/status/1006475992821465088
That seems like a think you would need to clear up with SK, considering that NK hasn’t really offered to give up anything. Trump is desperate to make a deal of some sort and NK senses it.
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On June 13 2018 00:20 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 23:54 Ayaz2810 wrote:
So are we in agreement that everything Trump has done in a year and a half either indirectly, or directly, benefits Russia and Putin? Up to and including this bullshit "concession". It seems pretty clear cut that rather than being as stupid as people think, he's literally just a Russian asset working for them, and has been for decades. And how about that honesty about lying? "It may not work out. But I'll come up with an excuse". He said on television to everyone that he plans to lie about things that don't go his way. And yet some people eat it up. I have already heard people say "so honest. Much Presidential. Very historic". Fucking morons. Quite the reverse. New sanctions from the Treasury. Major arms shipped to Ukraine (including anti-tank missiles). Expulsion of diplomats. Public condemnation, by his political appointees, of Russians actions like the nerve gas attack and Russian support for Assad. His military also killed dozens/hundreds of Russian mercenaries in Syria. Anyone who thinks Trump is “literally just a Russian asset working for them, and has been for decades” and others are “fucking morons” probably is too invested in that narrative for reconsideration. That’s a little extreme.
I would like to point out that, as per Trump's own words at the G7 summit, arms shipped to Ukraine have nothing to do with Russia annexing Crimea because Trump has forgotten about it happening.
Again.
Because forgetting why Russia was kicked out of the G8 is amazingly not the first time Trump has forgotten that Russia invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea.
Also, Russia sanctions? Sure, something finally came out against Russia, six months and at least one absurd incident with Nikki Haley after Congress passed sanctions, but it's mostly limited to things already under sanctions, or the people indicted by Mueller. He did the bare minimum. He doesn't earn congratulations for his administration taking six months to do the bare minimum.
And public condemnation by his appointees is meaningless in the face of Trump's continued solicitousness towards Putin.
I'm not going to go as far as saying that Trump is working for Putin, but he certainly seems to respect Putin and Putin's opinion a lot, and that's a problem.
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On June 13 2018 00:20 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 23:54 Ayaz2810 wrote:
So are we in agreement that everything Trump has done in a year and a half either indirectly, or directly, benefits Russia and Putin? Up to and including this bullshit "concession". It seems pretty clear cut that rather than being as stupid as people think, he's literally just a Russian asset working for them, and has been for decades. And how about that honesty about lying? "It may not work out. But I'll come up with an excuse". He said on television to everyone that he plans to lie about things that don't go his way. And yet some people eat it up. I have already heard people say "so honest. Much Presidential. Very historic". Fucking morons. Quite the reverse. New sanctions from the Treasury. Major arms shipped to Ukraine (including anti-tank missiles). Expulsion of diplomats. Public condemnation, by his political appointees, of Russians actions like the nerve gas attack and Russian support for Assad. His military also killed dozens/hundreds of Russian mercenaries in Syria. Anyone who thinks Trump is “literally just a Russian asset working for them, and has been for decades” and others are “fucking morons” probably is too invested in that narrative for reconsideration. That’s a little extreme.
You realize that the arming of Ukraine is a direct payment for dropping all investigations into Paul Manafort and ceasing cooperation with Mueller right?
Also, "The sanctions target five Russian companies and three individuals, some of whom are accused of directly supporting Russia’s intelligence agency, the Federal Security Service, in its efforts to carry out cyberattacks." That is hardly comprehensive and does nothing in the grand scheme of things. Everything that is meant to be "tough" on Russia is either smoke and mirrors, or so ineffective that it's only being done for the optics.
Public condemnation by his appointees.... you know who would really drive that condemnation home? THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. Yet he has said nothing.
You haven't given me an example that doesn't bolster my point. Anything he has done is clearly for show. Meanwhile, he spends most of his time gifting things to Russia. Most notably, trying his damndest to alienate every one of our allies and destroy the relationships that the western nations have with one another.
It's like saying "I gave the robber everything he wanted, but I told him he was a dick when I handed him my wallet". Ooooh such a big man.
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Another issue regarding Trump and Russia is that Trump's foreign policy, specifically the lasting damage he is doing to the United States' relationships with many of the rest of the major democracies and capitalist economies in the world, is extremely good for Russia.
Trump keeps threatening to pull out of NATO. Guess who benefits the most from that? It's not Americans no longer having to pay for a massive military, because our collective obsession with having the biggest dick military in the world isn't going anywhere. Russia really benefits from the collapse of a treaty that exists entirely to limit Russia's influence in Europe.
Trump may not be actively working for Russia, but he's still an asset to them, one which I'm sure they are constantly analyzing how to make the best use of.
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On June 13 2018 00:32 Ayaz2810 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 00:20 Danglars wrote:On June 12 2018 23:54 Ayaz2810 wrote:
So are we in agreement that everything Trump has done in a year and a half either indirectly, or directly, benefits Russia and Putin? Up to and including this bullshit "concession". It seems pretty clear cut that rather than being as stupid as people think, he's literally just a Russian asset working for them, and has been for decades. And how about that honesty about lying? "It may not work out. But I'll come up with an excuse". He said on television to everyone that he plans to lie about things that don't go his way. And yet some people eat it up. I have already heard people say "so honest. Much Presidential. Very historic". Fucking morons. Quite the reverse. New sanctions from the Treasury. Major arms shipped to Ukraine (including anti-tank missiles). Expulsion of diplomats. Public condemnation, by his political appointees, of Russians actions like the nerve gas attack and Russian support for Assad. His military also killed dozens/hundreds of Russian mercenaries in Syria. Anyone who thinks Trump is “literally just a Russian asset working for them, and has been for decades” and others are “fucking morons” probably is too invested in that narrative for reconsideration. That’s a little extreme. You realize that the arming of Ukraine is a direct payment for dropping all investigations into Paul Manafort and ceasing cooperation with Mueller right? Also, "The sanctions target five Russian companies and three individuals, some of whom are accused of directly supporting Russia’s intelligence agency, the Federal Security Service, in its efforts to carry out cyberattacks." That is hardly comprehensive and does nothing in the grand scheme of things. Everything that is meant to be "tough" on Russia is either smoke and mirrors, or so ineffective that it's only being done for the optics. Public condemnation by his appointees.... you know who would really drive that condemnation home? THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. Yet he has said nothing. You haven't given me an example that doesn't bolster my point. Anything he has done is clearly for show. Meanwhile, he spends most of his time gifting things to Russia. Most notably, trying his damndest to alienate every one of our allies and destroy the relationships that the western nations have with one another. It's like saying "I gave the robber everything he wanted, but I told him he was a dick when I handed him my wallet". Ooooh such a big man.
See, you’re spinning everything the Trump administration’s done against Russia to mean further layers of corruption and not up to standards of your own choosing. It’s the “anything he has done is clearly for show” rule. I’m not going to argue with a self-serving constructed view of US-Russia relations. I’ve cited the leading facts and listened to exactly one attempt to spin them all away into nothing.
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EPT
