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GreenHorizons
United States23957 Posts
On October 07 2020 07:02 Shingi11 wrote: If dems keep the filibuster around the recovery could be slow cause you know as soon as the GOP loses the upper chamber bipartisanship is going to be important to them again. Deficits and debt too. Austerity for everyone! Well, not everyone... | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On October 07 2020 07:02 Shingi11 wrote: If dems keep the filibuster around the recovery could be slow cause you know as soon as the GOP loses the upper chamber bipartisanship is going to be important to them again. I can’t imagine a world where dems let another Obama happen. The moment republicans start to obstruct, my hope is that we essentially carpet bomb that effort | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On October 07 2020 10:08 Mohdoo wrote: I can’t imagine a world where dems let another Obama happen. The moment republicans start to obstruct, my hope is that we essentially carpet bomb that effort Worry not, leader of the House Democrats Nancy Pelosi would never let that happen, as she proclaims that we need a STRONG Republican party! Seriously, Democrats are spineless and they are just as incentivized to accomplish nothing as Republicans are. If they want to signal they'll ACTUALLY fight Republicans properly they'll expand the Supreme Court, and go from there to secure good policy that Americans actually want. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On October 07 2020 10:16 Zambrah wrote: Worry not, leader of the House Democrats Nancy Pelosi would never let that happen, as she proclaims that we need a STRONG Republican party! Seriously, Democrats are spineless and they are just as incentivized to accomplish nothing as Republicans are. If they want to signal they'll ACTUALLY fight Republicans properly they'll expand the Supreme Court, and go from there to secure good policy that Americans actually want. I want to be clear that a Biden presidency is far from guaranteed at this point, however, AOC and Harris would never in a million years let Pelosi get away with that. Harris will likely be a very outspoken and active VP, if they win. AOC would lose her damn mind if Pelosi called for "restraint and to take the high road". Talk to most dems and they will tell you "when they go low, we knee them in the face". There is zero patience remaining. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On October 07 2020 10:18 Mohdoo wrote: I want to be clear that a Biden presidency is far from guaranteed at this point, however, AOC and Harris would never in a million years let Pelosi get away with that. Harris will likely be a very outspoken and active VP, if they win. AOC would lose her damn mind if Pelosi called for "restraint and to take the high road". Talk to most dems and they will tell you "when they go low, we knee them in the face". There is zero patience remaining. I don't know where this Harris confidence is coming from, but the only thing I believe she has on her mind is setting up connections to become the President, and I don't think fighting one of the prime leaders of the Democrats is going to help her achieve that ambition. Joe Biden is the actual definition of the kind of politics that will entail capitulating to Republicans, the majority of Democratic party leaders are completely able and willing to complain about decorum and then do what Republicans want. They might tear up a speech, or roll their eyes, but they'll be signing Republican legislation in no time at all. I'll need some pretty drastic immediate action from Democrats if I'm to believe we're not in for Obama-But-Even-Less-Effective from Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and whoever is crowned after Harris. Probably Buttigieg. The Progressive wing of the Democrats just doesnt have enough power to make them do anything at this point, and sadly that looks like the only sect of American government even kind of interested in accomplishing much of anything. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 07 2020 10:08 Mohdoo wrote: I can’t imagine a world where dems let another Obama happen. The moment republicans start to obstruct, my hope is that we essentially carpet bomb that effort Yes, yes, you will villify Republicans EVEN MORE. Call them racists EVEN MORE. Get on TV and say they're destroying the country EVEN MORE. Wait, exactly what changes? That's been the message for years now. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On October 07 2020 10:56 Danglars wrote: Yes, yes, you will villify Republicans EVEN MORE. Call them racists EVEN MORE. Get on TV and say they're destroying the country EVEN MORE. Wait, exactly what changes? That's been the message for years now. What happened the last time Trump was invited to disavow White Supremacy? | ||
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Shingi11
290 Posts
On October 07 2020 10:16 Zambrah wrote: Worry not, leader of the House Democrats Nancy Pelosi would never let that happen, as she proclaims that we need a STRONG Republican party! Seriously, Democrats are spineless and they are just as incentivized to accomplish nothing as Republicans are. If they want to signal they'll ACTUALLY fight Republicans properly they'll expand the Supreme Court, and go from there to secure good policy that Americans actually want. I think that if the repubs push through Ms.religions lady there will be enough anger. I dont if you have on blinders or what but there have been multiple senators that have said they have had enough. Even Pelosi and Schumer have given nods that they are done with the games from Mcturtle. There is will there. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On October 07 2020 11:43 Shingi11 wrote: I think that if the repubs push through Ms.religions lady there will be enough anger. I dont if you have on blinders or what but there have been multiple senators that have said they have had enough. Even Pelosi and Schumer have given nods that they are done with the games from Mcturtle. There is will there. I need more than faux Democrat outrage, I need their words to say, "We will increase the roster of the Supreme Court" and then one of the first things they need to do once in power is increase the roster of the Supreme Court. Democrats say lots of things, and I'm not really at the point where I'm willing to buy them at their word. If they're seriously done with Republican bullshit they'll act quickly and decisively to stop it, ranging from stacking the Supreme Court to increasing voter enfranchisement by voting on federal elections a federal holiday, etc. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On October 07 2020 06:49 JimmiC wrote: Depends on your definition of working I guess. Obama won his second term so it didn't work well enough to get him out. Obama was also black. I've always been convinced that racism played a massive part in refusal to work with him and the tea party insurgence in 2010, and that the GOP really might have had a similar period to 1930-1975 where they were entirely out of power for two generations, if he had been white (Eisenhower ran as a republican entirely because he didn't want us to be a one party nation). It wasn't even overt racism- conservatives blamed Obama for his election itself not ending all talk of racism, shown most clearly by the incident where the cop arrested the professor for breaking into his own home, and then did nothing but glare surlily during Obama's well-intentioned but idiotic beer summit. That dropped Obama's approval rating more than any other thing in either of his terms. On October 07 2020 10:56 Danglars wrote: Yes, yes, you will villify Republicans EVEN MORE. Call them racists EVEN MORE. Get on TV and say they're destroying the country EVEN MORE. Wait, exactly what changes? That's been the message for years now. A few platitudes: If it quacks like a duck, and screams about how it's not racist constantly, it's probably a racist duck. I thought GOP voters loved it when people "tell it like it is"? Oh, that only applies to when people put down those in the out-group. More seriously: The average democratic voter may have been calling republicans racists for years now, but it wasn't until very recently that anyone in party leadership started echoing it when talking about people rather than very specific actions. Voting rights act repeal of 2013? They would call it racist, but they wouldn't call Boehner racist. It wasn't until Hillary in 2016 called them a basket of deplorables that anyone in leadership said it about republicans, and that was clearly an unintentional gaffe. Michelle Obama recently saying that Trump's campaign was racist in a scripted speech is the closest I've seen. There's a lot of "obscure democratic blogger wrongly calls out racism" "falsely accused victim goes on fox news and conservative talk radio to talk about how reverse racism is the real issue and how it murdered their wife and slept with their dog" that makes cries of racism seem a lot more common and powerful than they really are. Short of doing blatantly, publicly racist actions or statements, there's almost never been actual blowback to being a racist. I know Danglars can probably go find 500 articles about people falsely accused of being racist, but it's the same thing as being falsely accused of rape : it's a real problem, but the people trotting it out are usually doing so to discredit the victims of actual cases. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 07 2020 11:53 Nevuk wrote: A few platitudes: If it quacks like a duck, and screams about how it's not racist constantly, it's probably a racist duck. I thought GOP voters loved it when people "tell it like it is"? Oh, that only applies to when people put down those in the out-group. More seriously: The average democratic voter may have been calling republicans racists for years now, but it wasn't until very recently that anyone in party leadership started echoing it when talking about people rather than very specific actions. Voting rights act repeal of 2013? They would call it racist, but they wouldn't call Boehner racist. It wasn't until Hillary in 2016 called them a basket of deplorables that anyone in leadership said it about republicans, and that was clearly an unintentional gaffe. Michelle Obama recently saying that Trump's campaign was racist in a scripted speech is the closest I've seen. There's a lot of "obscure democratic blogger wrongly calls out racism" "falsely accused victim goes on fox news and conservative talk radio to talk about how reverse racism is the real issue and how it murdered their wife and slept with their dog" that makes cries of racism seem a lot more common and powerful than they really are. Short of doing blatantly, publicly racist actions or statements, there's almost never been actual blowback to being a racist. I know Danglars can probably go find 500 articles about people falsely accused of being racist, but it's the same thing as being falsely accused of rape : it's a real problem, but the people trotting it out are usually doing so to discredit the victims of actual cases. With all due respect, you haven't answered my question. Exactly what changes? I totally get that you think it's more accurate now than in the past. Trump's been in office since 2017, and prior to that was a candidate since 2015. Exactly how is the rhetoric on obstruction, or vilification, or catastrophication going to be different if (in Mohdoo's phrasing) "another Obama happen[s]"? | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
On October 07 2020 11:48 Zambrah wrote: I need more than faux Democrat outrage, I need their words to say, "We will increase the roster of the Supreme Court" and then one of the first things they need to do once in power is increase the roster of the Supreme Court. Democrats say lots of things, and I'm not really at the point where I'm willing to buy them at their word. If they're seriously done with Republican bullshit they'll act quickly and decisively to stop it, ranging from stacking the Supreme Court to increasing voter enfranchisement by voting on federal elections a federal holiday, etc. I don't know, it could be dangerous to say things like that right before a big election. It could motivate some Democrats but possibly backfire too. Personally I'd be happy to see it though, given that the Republicans are openly announcing now that their priority is to stack the courts while the many Americans desperate for relief aid can basically get fucked. | ||
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Introvert
United States4951 Posts
On October 07 2020 05:08 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: I want to know if the "republicans" in this thread are okay with this announcement and what they think the consequence of it will be. Good idea on principle to tell Pelosi to go pound sand with her COVID-but-also-unrelated-stuff-we-want-spending spree. Last vote on her ridiculous proposal lost 17 vulnerable Democrats who still wanted more negotiations, so I think there's potential there, but who knows. The GOP will point to Democrats blocking the senate relief bill and around we'll go. When it comes to spending money though Democrats usually have political advantage. Without the media on their side I don't know how Democrats could survive blocking 1.6T because they didn't get 2.2T, but such is life. So as for the consequences? No idea. I'm kinda more interested in this, hope they work overtime + Show Spoiler + edit: what a 4k post lol | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
9057 Posts
On October 07 2020 13:27 Introvert wrote: Good idea on principle to tell Pelosi to go pound sand with her COVID-but-also-unrelated-stuff-we-want-spending spree. Last vote on her ridiculous proposal lost 17 vulnerable Democrats who still wanted more negotiations, so I think there's potential there, but who knows. The GOP will point to Democrats blocking the senate relief bill and around we'll go. When it comes to spending money though Democrats usually have political advantage. Without the media on their side I don't know how Democrats could survive blocking 1.6T because they didn't get 2.2T, but such is life. So as for the consequences? No idea. I'm kinda more interested in this, hope they work overtime + Show Spoiler + So, correct me if I'm wrong. But you're against any kind of relief for the people who need it most because...Pelosi? Or was it because it included stuff you personally don't feel is necessary? What do you say to those people? This pandemic, whether you believe it or not, is affecting real people. And are you willing to part with your belongings to help those in dire need if it comes to that? Also, I don't think trump and co want to open that can of worms again. Bringing up that past is only trying to cover for last and into this week, his many mistakes/falsehoods. | ||
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Shingi11
290 Posts
On October 07 2020 13:17 Starlightsun wrote: I don't know, it could be dangerous to say things like that right before a big election. It could motivate some Democrats but possibly backfire too. Personally I'd be happy to see it though, given that the Republicans are openly announcing now that their priority is to stack the courts while the many Americans desperate for relief aid can basically get fucked. I agree, while the odds are looking good that dems will take the senate they are by no means certain. Just look at any of the senate debates that have been going. All the republican senators are literally foaming at the mouth to try and get there opponents to say they will stack the courts. That should tell you how dangerous that kinda talk can be right before an election. All those dreams die if dems fall short of 50 | ||
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