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There's no chance a former president gets prosecuted. Bush and Obama being chummy should squash the idea there will be accountability for Trump.
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On September 28 2020 12:29 GreenHorizons wrote:There's no chance a former president gets prosecuted. Bush and Obama being chummy should squash the idea there will be accountability for Trump.
In this specific case I’m not so sure. Obama and Bush were still able to leave politics fairly cordially. There’s a lot of personal hatred between Trump and a huge number of powerful people.
While a lot of the framing from the Lincoln Project is an attempt to take the Republican Party back from the dominionists, there’s a whole bucketload of barely concealed saltiness and pettiness from the organisation. You can see this type of hatred in places like New York who have hated Trump for decades. It isn’t like Bush or Obama where the hatred is mostly on a political level, people seem to legitimately hate the man as a person.
I’m fairly certain that even if the feds don’t do anything, New York State is going to go after what they can.
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On September 28 2020 12:37 StalkerTL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2020 12:29 GreenHorizons wrote:There's no chance a former president gets prosecuted. Bush and Obama being chummy should squash the idea there will be accountability for Trump. In this specific case I’m not so sure. Obama and Bush were still able to leave politics fairly cordially. There’s a lot of personal hatred between Trump and a huge number of powerful people. While a lot of the framing from the Lincoln Project is an attempt to take the Republican Party back from the dominionists, there’s a whole bucketload of barely concealed saltiness and pettiness from the organisation. You can see this type of hatred in places like New York who have hated Trump for decades. It isn’t like Bush or Obama where the hatred is mostly on a political level, people seem to legitimately hate the man as a person. I’m fairly certain that even if the feds don’t do anything, New York State is going to go after what they can.
I think New York State is already conducting a criminal investigation of the Trump Organization, iirc.
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On September 28 2020 11:33 Doodsmack wrote:
If the NYT has Trump's tax returns and the headline is not "here is the criminality we found," I'm not sure I'm impressed. Seems like if it was tax fraud, they would be saying so. Their previous story about Fred Trump's inheritance did seem to show straight up tax fraud, proven by documents. This one is apparently just stuff we already knew.
All the people that guaranteed Russian payoffs hardest hit.
There's gotta be better October surprises coming up if this drops in late September. I hope they're juicy.
On September 28 2020 11:46 StalkerTL wrote:
Not suspicious at all.
I mean, did he ever tweet from that account? Let's ask the fact checkers if deleting 0 tweets is mostly true.
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On September 28 2020 12:37 StalkerTL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2020 12:29 GreenHorizons wrote:There's no chance a former president gets prosecuted. Bush and Obama being chummy should squash the idea there will be accountability for Trump. In this specific case I’m not so sure. Obama and Bush were still able to leave politics fairly cordially. There’s a lot of personal hatred between Trump and a huge number of powerful people. While a lot of the framing from the Lincoln Project is an attempt to take the Republican Party back from the dominionists, there’s a whole bucketload of barely concealed saltiness and pettiness from the organisation. You can see this type of hatred in places like New York who have hated Trump for decades. It isn’t like Bush or Obama where the hatred isn’t so deeply personal, people seem to legitimately hate the man on a personal level. I’m fairly certain that even if the feds don’t do anything, New York State is going to go after what they can.
Besides the moral condemnation that is painfully lacking in the congeniality between Bush and Obama, the only thing less likely than the feds going after Trump is a state going after a former president.
Presidents are known war criminals admittedly guilty of unspeakable crimes (Bush's torturing people for example), the idea that Trump having a bigger federal income tax bill than Amazon had most years will be the crime that sinks him is ridiculous imo. Hell, Amazon paid $0 in federal income tax on $11 billion in profit and got paid $129 million from the federal government from taxes in 2018.
Gina Fucking Haspel people.
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In this thread: People acting like villains and thinking they are the heroes.
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On September 28 2020 08:32 Nevuk wrote:
The really shocking part of the Trump returns is that he has 421 million in loans, PERSONALLY guaranteed, coming due soon. So not backed by his company or anything - him, personally.
I didn't even realize it was possible to get up to that level of debt as a person.
He's illiterate and wasn't even able to pass the SATs or be accepted into college without bribery, yet we're shocked that he lost hundreds of millions of other people's dollars and can barely afford his own fake hair?
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On September 28 2020 14:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2020 08:32 Nevuk wrote:
The really shocking part of the Trump returns is that he has 421 million in loans, PERSONALLY guaranteed, coming due soon. So not backed by his company or anything - him, personally.
I didn't even realize it was possible to get up to that level of debt as a person. He's illiterate and wasn't even able to pass the SATs or be accepted into college without bribery, yet we're shocked that he lost hundreds of millions of other people's dollars and can barely afford his own fake hair?
I think the concern there is more that someone ELSE was willing to give an illiterate nob like him HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars, like what kind of dumb does it take to trust Donald Trump levels of dumb?
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On September 28 2020 14:41 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2020 14:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 28 2020 08:32 Nevuk wrote:
The really shocking part of the Trump returns is that he has 421 million in loans, PERSONALLY guaranteed, coming due soon. So not backed by his company or anything - him, personally.
I didn't even realize it was possible to get up to that level of debt as a person. He's illiterate and wasn't even able to pass the SATs or be accepted into college without bribery, yet we're shocked that he lost hundreds of millions of other people's dollars and can barely afford his own fake hair? I think the concern there is more that someone ELSE was willing to give an illiterate nob like him HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars, like what kind of dumb does it take to trust Donald Trump levels of dumb?
I guess it's not the worst gamble considering he got elected president of the US. I'm sure people have both lost and gained a lot of money on him. For all we know it could be foreign governments that now have those debts as leverage over our top government official.
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Well, I guess the old adage is true. If you owe the bank $100,000 you're in shit. If you owe the bank $100,000,000, the bank's in shit.
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On September 28 2020 14:55 Lmui wrote:
Well, I guess the old adage is true. If you owe the bank $100,000 you're in shit. If you owe the bank $100,000,000, the bank's in shit.
lol and I bet you that Trump's approval will go down at most 2% from this, just like it would for any ordinary politician /s.
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He does probably owe the lion's share to Deutsche bank and they have some experience working with Nazis so I'm sure they'll be okay. The "investors" that got suckered into the commercial mortgage backed securities are probably boned though.
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On September 28 2020 14:47 Starlightsun wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2020 14:41 Zambrah wrote:On September 28 2020 14:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 28 2020 08:32 Nevuk wrote:
The really shocking part of the Trump returns is that he has 421 million in loans, PERSONALLY guaranteed, coming due soon. So not backed by his company or anything - him, personally.
I didn't even realize it was possible to get up to that level of debt as a person. He's illiterate and wasn't even able to pass the SATs or be accepted into college without bribery, yet we're shocked that he lost hundreds of millions of other people's dollars and can barely afford his own fake hair? I think the concern there is more that someone ELSE was willing to give an illiterate nob like him HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars, like what kind of dumb does it take to trust Donald Trump levels of dumb? I guess it's not the worst gamble considering he got elected president of the US. I'm sure people have both lost and gained a lot of money on him. For all we know it could be foreign governments that now have those debts as leverage over our top government official.
This feels like a fair and worrying point. Even if the controlling interests are domestic, someone 'having bought' the president seems not ideal.
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On September 28 2020 17:01 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2020 14:47 Starlightsun wrote:On September 28 2020 14:41 Zambrah wrote:On September 28 2020 14:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 28 2020 08:32 Nevuk wrote:
The really shocking part of the Trump returns is that he has 421 million in loans, PERSONALLY guaranteed, coming due soon. So not backed by his company or anything - him, personally.
I didn't even realize it was possible to get up to that level of debt as a person. He's illiterate and wasn't even able to pass the SATs or be accepted into college without bribery, yet we're shocked that he lost hundreds of millions of other people's dollars and can barely afford his own fake hair? I think the concern there is more that someone ELSE was willing to give an illiterate nob like him HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars, like what kind of dumb does it take to trust Donald Trump levels of dumb? I guess it's not the worst gamble considering he got elected president of the US. I'm sure people have both lost and gained a lot of money on him. For all we know it could be foreign governments that now have those debts as leverage over our top government official. This feels like a fair and worrying point. Even if the controlling interests are domestic, someone 'having bought' the president seems not ideal. I don't think anyone here is going to be surprised if a bunch of that debt is held by Russia.
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Northern Ireland27236 Posts
On September 28 2020 12:51 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2020 12:37 StalkerTL wrote:On September 28 2020 12:29 GreenHorizons wrote:There's no chance a former president gets prosecuted. Bush and Obama being chummy should squash the idea there will be accountability for Trump. In this specific case I’m not so sure. Obama and Bush were still able to leave politics fairly cordially. There’s a lot of personal hatred between Trump and a huge number of powerful people. While a lot of the framing from the Lincoln Project is an attempt to take the Republican Party back from the dominionists, there’s a whole bucketload of barely concealed saltiness and pettiness from the organisation. You can see this type of hatred in places like New York who have hated Trump for decades. It isn’t like Bush or Obama where the hatred isn’t so deeply personal, people seem to legitimately hate the man on a personal level. I’m fairly certain that even if the feds don’t do anything, New York State is going to go after what they can. Besides the moral condemnation that is painfully lacking in the congeniality between Bush and Obama, the only thing less likely than the feds going after Trump is a state going after a former president. Presidents are known war criminals admittedly guilty of unspeakable crimes (Bush's torturing people for example), the idea that Trump having a bigger federal income tax bill than Amazon had most years will be the crime that sinks him is ridiculous imo. Hell, Amazon paid $0 in federal income tax on $11 billion in profit and got paid $129 million from the federal government from taxes in 2018. Gina Fucking Haspel people.
Amazon still makes a hell of a lot of profit. Of the holy trinity of things suspected of Trump’s finances, tax dodges was only one part alongside his wealth being grossly exaggerated and his business empire being akin to a giant house of cards. All of which yes, absolutely do appear to be the case.
That aside and yes, hollow while it might ultimately be in the absence of justice in other areas, Trump personally pissing people off will probably come back to bite him.
It may be the veneer of civility given the wars that went on under their watch, both Bush and Obama weren’t going around like wrecking balls and firing dissenting voices, calling people out, or any dissenting institutions on Twitter etc etc. Which I think does count for something.
Unlike the crimes under their watch, state apparatus isn’t on the hook for the Trump empire. The state and individuals within it were needed to aid and abet these things, so hypothetically if you go after Obama say you have to go after a whole swathe of people still in these various positions. Which leads us into who watches the watchmen territory, whereas with Trump well the watchmen don’t have to worry about implicating themselves and their colleagues, in addition to the previous two Presidents not pissing off the Watchmen.
Finally there’s the Madoff factor. Aside from why you would ever give cash to a guy where you can make the ‘he Madoff with my money’ pun, if you do want to go down for fraud a sure fire, possibly the only way is if you owe a lot of rich people money, rather than say collapsing the world’s financial markets.
Rambling aside I’m not confident either that Trump would be prosecuted, nor that he’s committed actual prosecutable crimes rather than innumerable moral ones, but I just think he’s a different case to Bush or Obama say.
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I don't really care about prosecuting Trump right now. If we're having that conversation in earnest, nether he nor his children are president, so we're already in the right timeline.
I would be glad to see him thrown in jail. Pushing for it now is not just counting chickens before they hatch, but doing so with the farm on fire.
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On September 28 2020 22:25 JimmiC wrote:
The big part of this is this will destroy the one thing the Donald has done well, create a myth that he is a good business man. His two successes revolved around it the apprentice and being president.
His actual businesses have with incredible consistency failed. Atlantic City casinos, USFL, vodka, steaks, mattresses, New York real-estate, Trump University, even his charity.
It will be incredibly hard for him to claim the myth of being a great business man when you pay 750 in taxes back to back years. It means either you are horrible, you cheat or both.
Guy is a spoiled brat living off daddies money, who was able to trick a lot of people into thinking he was a screwed businessman. As that myth shatters for a lot it is going to be a lot harder to believe 4d chess and a lot easier to see blowhard tantrum throwing lying spoiled brat.
I think you'll be surprised by the spin capabilities of people. This is nothing left-leaning people didn't already suspect or know, and nothing right-leaning people who've embraced Trump will care about. According to Danglars Trump is now an iconic President for future generations because he elected Conservative justices to the Supreme Court.
I sincerely doubt he's unique in that perspective on the subject.
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Northern Ireland27236 Posts
On September 28 2020 22:49 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2020 22:25 JimmiC wrote:
The big part of this is this will destroy the one thing the Donald has done well, create a myth that he is a good business man. His two successes revolved around it the apprentice and being president.
His actual businesses have with incredible consistency failed. Atlantic City casinos, USFL, vodka, steaks, mattresses, New York real-estate, Trump University, even his charity.
It will be incredibly hard for him to claim the myth of being a great business man when you pay 750 in taxes back to back years. It means either you are horrible, you cheat or both.
Guy is a spoiled brat living off daddies money, who was able to trick a lot of people into thinking he was a screwed businessman. As that myth shatters for a lot it is going to be a lot harder to believe 4d chess and a lot easier to see blowhard tantrum throwing lying spoiled brat. I think you'll be surprised by the spin capabilities of people. This is nothing left-leaning people didn't already suspect or know, and nothing right-leaning people who've embraced Trump will care about. According to Danglars Trump is now an iconic President for future generations because he elected Conservative justices to the Supreme Court. I sincerely doubt he's unique in that perspective on the subject.
Perhaps I’m being overly generous, I read that post more that his advisors should tell him that this would make him and icon to appeal to his ego and push him in that direction (which makes sense given its Trump) over him actually being an icon in Danglars’ opinion.
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EPT
