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Not disagreeing with your overall point, but GH is not a progressive, GH is a “revolutionary socialist “ or tankie depending on who you ask.
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On July 30 2026 13:28 Falling wrote:
It was the leftist, not the establishment that harangued 'Genocide' Joe over Gaza and then vanished when Trump got elected and gave the keys to the kingdom to Netanyahu.
It was leftists, not the establishment that sat on their hands for the election and now say, everything Trump is doing? Harris would have done the exact same thing. (see Hasan and basically anyone on the left that argues there is no difference between Dems and MAGA... the uniparty rhetoric was also strong in MAGA)
It is leftists, not the establishment purity test every level of government official for their position on Israel/Palestine. Doesn't matter how progressive they are. If you aren't maxed out in pro-Pally, River to the Sea, Palestine will be free (of the Jews), then get the hell out, you are no progressive. (see Scott Wiener)
It is leftists, not the establishment that cucked Sanders one of the most progressive senators, replacing him at his own rally, giving right wing media all the fodder they need to show what dweebs Democrats are. The moderates and especially the establishment Dems are guilty of not pushing back hard enough on every single one of these. I'm no PR guru, but the message should resemble "We are your party regardless of what you think on middle eastern conflicts. We make the lives better for ordinary Americans. People of conscience can disagree about Israel and we'll entertain and hold votes on those disagreements within our party."
I'm aware of why politicians of a more moderate persuasion don't do it, and it exhibits a lack of leadership (really the lack of a single, eloquent leader) to espouse the position.
Policy debate within the party is good and normal and is not infighting...
Those tactics which are self-sabotaging because their targets are indiscriminate. Take the strongest progressive candidate. A half year later, that same candidate is dead to the leftists...
"F you and your Zionist handlers!" Take these statements, print them out in giant text, and paste them in the offices of DNC leadership.
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We prosecuted this in the thread, but it's incredibly silly to imply that "the leftists" are at fault for Trump winning when Biden literally lagged out multiple times during a debate and then had to be last minute replaced. Come on.
Also, just because you guys don't think that one of your closest allies murdering civilians on daily basis is something to be overlooked and ignored for the sake of "party unity" doesn't change the fact that Democrats are the only viable left option in the USA, and most left oriented people have empathy and conscience, so the leadership of the party saying:
"I have many jobs as leader … and one is to fight for aid to Israel, all the aid that Israel needs."
does not really sit well with them, especially if said in 2025 after 70+ k dead, many of them children.
To pretend like "you have to be maxed out on pro-Pally" just reveals a level of disdain that pro-Israel centrists have for anyone who dares criticize the way the Democrats approach this topic, and it's pretty ironic that it's being posted as an attack on "pro-Pally".
Most people who are up at arms over what is happening in Gaza and Lebanon are normal, rational people, and trying to blame everything wrong not just with Democrats but USA in general (as Falling did in his post insinuating it's their fault for electing Trump) is pretty unhinged.
No wonder dyhb loved it, almost as much as IDF murdering 11 and 8 year olds for the crime of crossing an invisible line to gather firewood.
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On July 31 2026 02:29 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2026 23:47 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 30 2026 13:28 Falling wrote:On July 30 2026 01:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 30 2026 00:39 Falling wrote:
The question cannot be answered as worded because it contains within it a contradiction. I do not think by and large establishment Democrats like Buttigieg are causing infighting. To me it's rather like demanding examples of how the King has joined the rebellion... and how can there be examples when the King is what the rebels are rebelling against. Can you point me to examples of where Buttigieg (we'll stick with him because you name him as representative of your category and I am more familiar with him) is causing infighting?
Also, who in the world is Blue MAGA in this scenario and what defines them? Sure it can. The idea that centrist/moderate/thirdway/etc Democrats are the "King" and progressives/their policy prescriptions are the rebels/rebellion is getting closer to recognizing the absurdity of Blue MAGA's inability to answer though. Blue MAGA are the people so enraptured by thirdway Democrat mythology that they are incapable of providing policies/points that centrist/moderate/thirdway Democrats need to concede on to those to their left or else those centrist/moderate/thirdway Democrats would be self-sabotaging (undermining their own political success). The king and rebels is showing showing how a question framed with a contradiction within it makes no sense and cannot be answered. I am not calling the establishment king and the leftist rebels. + Show Spoiler +
To put it in another way, it is normal for a party to have wings or factions and for there to be disagreement and shifts in momentum on what part prevails in the party. When anyone talks about the infighting from the leftists that is sabotaging the Democrat party, that is NOT what anyone is talking about. So this turnabout on what Pete and establishment dems can do to stop the infighting doesn't make any sense.
Because the infighting that is self-sabatoging is the active measures when one part of the party basically ignores the party they are ostensibly running against and exclusively tear down what is supposedly their party.
It was the leftist, not the establishment that harangued 'Genocide' Joe over Gaza and then vanished when Trump got elected and gave the keys to the kingdom to Netanyahu.
It was leftists, not the establishment that sat on their hands for the election and now say, everything Trump is doing? Harris would have done the exact same thing. (see Hasan and basically anyone on the left that argues there is no difference between Dems and MAGA... the uniparty rhetoric was also strong in MAGA)
It is leftists, not the establishment purity test every level of government official for their position on Israel/Palestine. Doesn't matter how progressive they are. If you aren't maxed out in pro-Pally, River to the Sea, Palestine will be free (of the Jews), then get the hell out, you are no progressive. (see Scott Wiener)
It is leftists, not the establishment that cucked Sanders one of the most progressive senators, replacing him at his own rally, giving right wing media all the fodder they need to show what dweebs Democrats are.
MAGA has a pipeline of White House to Fox News to big podcasters to small podcasters to spread the word of what MAGA should believe next.
Democrats struggle to even express spread a message of what they are up to and especially on leftist platforms, effectively attacked as much as one would expect had they stepped on Fox News. (See Krystal Ball try to steamroll Adam Smith ability to even answer when on Breaking Point.)
I could go on.
Policy debate within the party is good and normal and is not infighting. The tactics used to gain control over the policy that are utilized by the far left are simply not seen by establishment Dems, which is why I don't think the question can be answered as such. (Especially as many of tactics actively discourage people voting.) Buttigieg doesn't do anything close to that as he is on the attack against MAGA and one of the better communicators of what the Democrats stand for, what it should do, and why MAGA ought to be opposed. But it's those tactics which are self-sabotaging because their targets are indiscriminate. Take the strongest progressive candidate. A half year later, that same candidate is dead to the leftists.
"F you and your Zionist handlers!"
Oh. Also, I think you are really stretching to make Blue MAGA/ fetch happen. What makes MAGA, MAGA is not comparable to the malaise of establishment Dems. Completely different problems and completely different levels of loyalty to the Leader over position.
I know. There's no contradiction. Your answer is "No I don't have any either". I didn't need a rant about why you dislike leftists and blame them for so much. It seems literally none of you can comprehend that some centrists/corporate/thirdway policy is just objectively worse than its more progressive alternatives (We're talking even stuff to the right of Bernie). Not just functionally, but electorally too. This is no small part of why we can't have nice things. A smaller fraction of "leftists" than Hillary supporters didn't fall in line and they get endless blame for Democrats' unending hubris giving us Trump 2x. Democrats literally imprison, enslave, and kill Black people/socialists for 100+ years (definitively destructive infighting) and the survivors are supposed to not have any standards or expectations like "don't aid and abet fascists in genocide". This to supposedly protect themselves from the fascism (got Trump anyway despite Black people overwhelmingly supporting Democrats) those same Democrats are laying/laid the foundation for (while also aiding and abetting fascists elsewhere). It's not a good sign that the ostensible "progressives" and "leftists" here (or most places online) literally can't come up with anything centrists/moderate/thirdway Democrats need to stop infighting with progressives about and to concede on so as not to undermine the Democrats' party's capacity to accomplish its ostensible goals (the good ones) and win the races they need to (some they pushed/are pushing progressives out of). How anyone that lists some policies feels about the given policy isn't necessarily even the point. Just being able to identify any of the policies that are more popular with "independent" voters and the Democrats' own party. Basic electoral sense suggests centrists should stop infighting about those things and concede it to the "progressives/independents/leftists". This complete failure by "progressives/leftists" here and generally is a significant part of how Democrats continue to help move society deeper into a right-wing capitalist hellscape. The funniest thing is that I, in more cases then not disagree with Falling's view of what's wrong with Democrats, I mean I kind of went over most of those occurrences in my ironic reply to GH and it's easy to compare and contrast them. All of this does not mean shit to GH, because he's too busy literally doing what the issue is, purity testing people who agree with him, insulting them and ignoring what they write because it's not exactly what he had in mind. It's a great microcosm of what is wrong with progressives today.
Yeah, I'm not a "progressive". It's starting to look like there aren't many left here.
I do care and I do hope you all talk about it.
It simply isn't an answer to the 2020 Blue MAGA version of "Who won the 2020 election" which is: Can anyone come up with any policies/points centrists/moderate/thirdway Democrats need to stop infighting with progressives about and to concede on so as not to undermine the Democrats' party's capacity to accomplish its ostensible goals (the best ones they've got anyway)?
EDIT: Looks like you all might talk about it but that's basically what an answer from a progressive (I'd argue anyone who isn't BlueMAGA brainrotted/with a semblance of a conscience) could/should look like. Though it could have just been: just because you guys don't think that one of your closest allies murdering civilians on daily basis is something to be overlooked and ignored for the sake of "party unity" doesn't change the fact that Democrats are the only viable left option in the USA, and most left oriented people have empathy and conscience, so the leadership of the party saying: Show nested quote +"I have many jobs as leader … and one is to fight for aid to Israel, all the aid that Israel needs." does not really sit well with them, especially if said in 2025 after 70+ k dead, many of them children. To pretend like "you have to be maxed out on pro-Pally" just reveals a level of disdain that pro-Israel centrists have for anyone who dares criticize the way the Democrats approach this topic, and it's pretty ironic that it's being posted as an attack on "pro-Pally". Most people who are up at arms over what is happening in Gaza and Lebanon are normal, rational people, and trying to blame everything wrong not just with Democrats but USA in general (as Falling did in his post insinuating it's their fault for electing Trump) is pretty unhinged.
That dyhb and the rest of people that ostensibly oppose "the IDF murdering 11 and 8 year olds for the crime of crossing an invisible line to gather firewood." will in all probability be joined in a chorus by the rest of BlueMAGA demanding everyone fall in line behind dyhb and vote for the same person dyhb is who will continue to aid and abet crimes like that anyway is important too though.
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For those not as familiar with GH, gh is saying that gh is above everyone so they need to realize the only solution is GHs , which gh can’t explain to you until you have read all the sacred texts and are a true believer.
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On July 31 2026 03:48 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2026 02:29 Jankisa wrote:On July 30 2026 23:47 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 30 2026 13:28 Falling wrote:On July 30 2026 01:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 30 2026 00:39 Falling wrote:
The question cannot be answered as worded because it contains within it a contradiction. I do not think by and large establishment Democrats like Buttigieg are causing infighting. To me it's rather like demanding examples of how the King has joined the rebellion... and how can there be examples when the King is what the rebels are rebelling against. Can you point me to examples of where Buttigieg (we'll stick with him because you name him as representative of your category and I am more familiar with him) is causing infighting?
Also, who in the world is Blue MAGA in this scenario and what defines them? Sure it can. The idea that centrist/moderate/thirdway/etc Democrats are the "King" and progressives/their policy prescriptions are the rebels/rebellion is getting closer to recognizing the absurdity of Blue MAGA's inability to answer though. Blue MAGA are the people so enraptured by thirdway Democrat mythology that they are incapable of providing policies/points that centrist/moderate/thirdway Democrats need to concede on to those to their left or else those centrist/moderate/thirdway Democrats would be self-sabotaging (undermining their own political success). The king and rebels is showing showing how a question framed with a contradiction within it makes no sense and cannot be answered. I am not calling the establishment king and the leftist rebels. + Show Spoiler +
To put it in another way, it is normal for a party to have wings or factions and for there to be disagreement and shifts in momentum on what part prevails in the party. When anyone talks about the infighting from the leftists that is sabotaging the Democrat party, that is NOT what anyone is talking about. So this turnabout on what Pete and establishment dems can do to stop the infighting doesn't make any sense.
Because the infighting that is self-sabatoging is the active measures when one part of the party basically ignores the party they are ostensibly running against and exclusively tear down what is supposedly their party.
It was the leftist, not the establishment that harangued 'Genocide' Joe over Gaza and then vanished when Trump got elected and gave the keys to the kingdom to Netanyahu.
It was leftists, not the establishment that sat on their hands for the election and now say, everything Trump is doing? Harris would have done the exact same thing. (see Hasan and basically anyone on the left that argues there is no difference between Dems and MAGA... the uniparty rhetoric was also strong in MAGA)
It is leftists, not the establishment purity test every level of government official for their position on Israel/Palestine. Doesn't matter how progressive they are. If you aren't maxed out in pro-Pally, River to the Sea, Palestine will be free (of the Jews), then get the hell out, you are no progressive. (see Scott Wiener)
It is leftists, not the establishment that cucked Sanders one of the most progressive senators, replacing him at his own rally, giving right wing media all the fodder they need to show what dweebs Democrats are.
MAGA has a pipeline of White House to Fox News to big podcasters to small podcasters to spread the word of what MAGA should believe next.
Democrats struggle to even express spread a message of what they are up to and especially on leftist platforms, effectively attacked as much as one would expect had they stepped on Fox News. (See Krystal Ball try to steamroll Adam Smith ability to even answer when on Breaking Point.)
I could go on.
Policy debate within the party is good and normal and is not infighting. The tactics used to gain control over the policy that are utilized by the far left are simply not seen by establishment Dems, which is why I don't think the question can be answered as such. (Especially as many of tactics actively discourage people voting.) Buttigieg doesn't do anything close to that as he is on the attack against MAGA and one of the better communicators of what the Democrats stand for, what it should do, and why MAGA ought to be opposed. But it's those tactics which are self-sabotaging because their targets are indiscriminate. Take the strongest progressive candidate. A half year later, that same candidate is dead to the leftists.
"F you and your Zionist handlers!"
Oh. Also, I think you are really stretching to make Blue MAGA/ fetch happen. What makes MAGA, MAGA is not comparable to the malaise of establishment Dems. Completely different problems and completely different levels of loyalty to the Leader over position.
I know. There's no contradiction. Your answer is "No I don't have any either". I didn't need a rant about why you dislike leftists and blame them for so much. It seems literally none of you can comprehend that some centrists/corporate/thirdway policy is just objectively worse than its more progressive alternatives (We're talking even stuff to the right of Bernie). Not just functionally, but electorally too. This is no small part of why we can't have nice things. A smaller fraction of "leftists" than Hillary supporters didn't fall in line and they get endless blame for Democrats' unending hubris giving us Trump 2x. Democrats literally imprison, enslave, and kill Black people/socialists for 100+ years (definitively destructive infighting) and the survivors are supposed to not have any standards or expectations like "don't aid and abet fascists in genocide". This to supposedly protect themselves from the fascism (got Trump anyway despite Black people overwhelmingly supporting Democrats) those same Democrats are laying/laid the foundation for (while also aiding and abetting fascists elsewhere). It's not a good sign that the ostensible "progressives" and "leftists" here (or most places online) literally can't come up with anything centrists/moderate/thirdway Democrats need to stop infighting with progressives about and to concede on so as not to undermine the Democrats' party's capacity to accomplish its ostensible goals (the good ones) and win the races they need to (some they pushed/are pushing progressives out of). How anyone that lists some policies feels about the given policy isn't necessarily even the point. Just being able to identify any of the policies that are more popular with "independent" voters and the Democrats' own party. Basic electoral sense suggests centrists should stop infighting about those things and concede it to the "progressives/independents/leftists". This complete failure by "progressives/leftists" here and generally is a significant part of how Democrats continue to help move society deeper into a right-wing capitalist hellscape. The funniest thing is that I, in more cases then not disagree with Falling's view of what's wrong with Democrats, I mean I kind of went over most of those occurrences in my ironic reply to GH and it's easy to compare and contrast them. All of this does not mean shit to GH, because he's too busy literally doing what the issue is, purity testing people who agree with him, insulting them and ignoring what they write because it's not exactly what he had in mind. It's a great microcosm of what is wrong with progressives today. Yeah, I'm not a "progressive". It's starting to look like there aren't many left here. I do care and I do hope you all talk about it. It simply isn't an answer to the 2020 Blue MAGA version of "Who won the 2020 election" which is: Can anyone come up with any policies/points centrists/moderate/thirdway Democrats need to stop infighting with progressives about and to concede on so as not to undermine the Democrats' party's capacity to accomplish its ostensible goals (the best ones they've got anyway)? The answer is that its a bullshit statement to begin with. You don't want a democracy, you want a dictatorship in which the party decided what thoughts its members are allowed to have. Which is basically China, a comparison I'm sure isn't lost on anyone who has been in this thread for any length of time...
The whole point of a representative democracy is that there should be no higher power imposing what people are allowed to think. You want the difference of opinions where the voters decide who gets to represent them.
You just want to throw that out and impose a dictatorship because the idea you like isn't winning.
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On July 31 2026 04:07 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2026 03:48 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 31 2026 02:29 Jankisa wrote:On July 30 2026 23:47 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 30 2026 13:28 Falling wrote:On July 30 2026 01:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 30 2026 00:39 Falling wrote:
The question cannot be answered as worded because it contains within it a contradiction. I do not think by and large establishment Democrats like Buttigieg are causing infighting. To me it's rather like demanding examples of how the King has joined the rebellion... and how can there be examples when the King is what the rebels are rebelling against. Can you point me to examples of where Buttigieg (we'll stick with him because you name him as representative of your category and I am more familiar with him) is causing infighting?
Also, who in the world is Blue MAGA in this scenario and what defines them? Sure it can. The idea that centrist/moderate/thirdway/etc Democrats are the "King" and progressives/their policy prescriptions are the rebels/rebellion is getting closer to recognizing the absurdity of Blue MAGA's inability to answer though. Blue MAGA are the people so enraptured by thirdway Democrat mythology that they are incapable of providing policies/points that centrist/moderate/thirdway Democrats need to concede on to those to their left or else those centrist/moderate/thirdway Democrats would be self-sabotaging (undermining their own political success). The king and rebels is showing showing how a question framed with a contradiction within it makes no sense and cannot be answered. I am not calling the establishment king and the leftist rebels. + Show Spoiler +
To put it in another way, it is normal for a party to have wings or factions and for there to be disagreement and shifts in momentum on what part prevails in the party. When anyone talks about the infighting from the leftists that is sabotaging the Democrat party, that is NOT what anyone is talking about. So this turnabout on what Pete and establishment dems can do to stop the infighting doesn't make any sense.
Because the infighting that is self-sabatoging is the active measures when one part of the party basically ignores the party they are ostensibly running against and exclusively tear down what is supposedly their party.
It was the leftist, not the establishment that harangued 'Genocide' Joe over Gaza and then vanished when Trump got elected and gave the keys to the kingdom to Netanyahu.
It was leftists, not the establishment that sat on their hands for the election and now say, everything Trump is doing? Harris would have done the exact same thing. (see Hasan and basically anyone on the left that argues there is no difference between Dems and MAGA... the uniparty rhetoric was also strong in MAGA)
It is leftists, not the establishment purity test every level of government official for their position on Israel/Palestine. Doesn't matter how progressive they are. If you aren't maxed out in pro-Pally, River to the Sea, Palestine will be free (of the Jews), then get the hell out, you are no progressive. (see Scott Wiener)
It is leftists, not the establishment that cucked Sanders one of the most progressive senators, replacing him at his own rally, giving right wing media all the fodder they need to show what dweebs Democrats are.
MAGA has a pipeline of White House to Fox News to big podcasters to small podcasters to spread the word of what MAGA should believe next.
Democrats struggle to even express spread a message of what they are up to and especially on leftist platforms, effectively attacked as much as one would expect had they stepped on Fox News. (See Krystal Ball try to steamroll Adam Smith ability to even answer when on Breaking Point.)
I could go on.
Policy debate within the party is good and normal and is not infighting. The tactics used to gain control over the policy that are utilized by the far left are simply not seen by establishment Dems, which is why I don't think the question can be answered as such. (Especially as many of tactics actively discourage people voting.) Buttigieg doesn't do anything close to that as he is on the attack against MAGA and one of the better communicators of what the Democrats stand for, what it should do, and why MAGA ought to be opposed. But it's those tactics which are self-sabotaging because their targets are indiscriminate. Take the strongest progressive candidate. A half year later, that same candidate is dead to the leftists.
"F you and your Zionist handlers!"
Oh. Also, I think you are really stretching to make Blue MAGA/ fetch happen. What makes MAGA, MAGA is not comparable to the malaise of establishment Dems. Completely different problems and completely different levels of loyalty to the Leader over position.
I know. There's no contradiction. Your answer is "No I don't have any either". I didn't need a rant about why you dislike leftists and blame them for so much. It seems literally none of you can comprehend that some centrists/corporate/thirdway policy is just objectively worse than its more progressive alternatives (We're talking even stuff to the right of Bernie). Not just functionally, but electorally too. This is no small part of why we can't have nice things. A smaller fraction of "leftists" than Hillary supporters didn't fall in line and they get endless blame for Democrats' unending hubris giving us Trump 2x. Democrats literally imprison, enslave, and kill Black people/socialists for 100+ years (definitively destructive infighting) and the survivors are supposed to not have any standards or expectations like "don't aid and abet fascists in genocide". This to supposedly protect themselves from the fascism (got Trump anyway despite Black people overwhelmingly supporting Democrats) those same Democrats are laying/laid the foundation for (while also aiding and abetting fascists elsewhere). It's not a good sign that the ostensible "progressives" and "leftists" here (or most places online) literally can't come up with anything centrists/moderate/thirdway Democrats need to stop infighting with progressives about and to concede on so as not to undermine the Democrats' party's capacity to accomplish its ostensible goals (the good ones) and win the races they need to (some they pushed/are pushing progressives out of). How anyone that lists some policies feels about the given policy isn't necessarily even the point. Just being able to identify any of the policies that are more popular with "independent" voters and the Democrats' own party. Basic electoral sense suggests centrists should stop infighting about those things and concede it to the "progressives/independents/leftists". This complete failure by "progressives/leftists" here and generally is a significant part of how Democrats continue to help move society deeper into a right-wing capitalist hellscape. The funniest thing is that I, in more cases then not disagree with Falling's view of what's wrong with Democrats, I mean I kind of went over most of those occurrences in my ironic reply to GH and it's easy to compare and contrast them. All of this does not mean shit to GH, because he's too busy literally doing what the issue is, purity testing people who agree with him, insulting them and ignoring what they write because it's not exactly what he had in mind. It's a great microcosm of what is wrong with progressives today. Yeah, I'm not a "progressive". It's starting to look like there aren't many left here. I do care and I do hope you all talk about it. It simply isn't an answer to the 2020 Blue MAGA version of "Who won the 2020 election" which is: Can anyone come up with any policies/points centrists/moderate/thirdway Democrats need to stop infighting with progressives about and to concede on so as not to undermine the Democrats' party's capacity to accomplish its ostensible goals (the best ones they've got anyway)? The answer is that its a bullshit statement to begin with. You don't want a democracy, you want a dictatorship + Show Spoiler +in which the party decided what thoughts its members are allowed to have. Which is basically China, a comparison I'm sure isn't lost on anyone who has been in this thread for any length of time...
The whole point of a representative democracy is that there should be no higher power imposing what people are allowed to think. You want the difference of opinions where the voters decide who gets to represent them.
You just want to throw that out and impose a dictatorship because the idea you like isn't winning.
Except since Jankisa isn't BlueMAGA they were able to see a pretty obvious answer that should appeal to anyone with anything resembling a conscience (nevermind progressive/leftists).
I bet Jankisa is far enough away from it to see what I've been talking about more clearly (without having to like me, or the way I brought it out of people any more/at all).
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On July 31 2026 02:37 Billyboy wrote:
Not disagreeing with your overall point, but GH is not a progressive, GH is a “revolutionary socialist “ or tankie depending on who you ask.
Performative tankie.
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A Texas Deputy Searched 83,000 Flock Cameras To Track Down a Woman Who Had an Abortion: https://www.gadgetreview.com/a-texas-deputy-searched-83000-flock-cameras-to-track-down-a-woman-who-had-an-abortion
I feel like Dems of any place on the political spectrum could win the midterms as long as they're not in a ruby red district by running on an anti-Flock, anti-data centers, anti-Iran War (tying it to gas prices) platform. Obviously you're more likely to be against those three things if you're on the progressive side but pretty much anyone except Fetterman could easily flip on those in the next three months.
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GH you are literally tilting and windmills.
I guess good job by summoning someone who will defend what I guess you call "Blue MAGA" positions in Falling, too bad that you insulted and annoyed 100 other people in the process.
The funniest part is that in doing that you actually praised your fellow victim dyhb who is basically the most prominent "Blue MAGA" poster here, if we were to believe what he says because a lot of his writings seem much more aligned with actual MAGA.
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On July 31 2026 04:41 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2026 03:48 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 31 2026 02:29 Jankisa wrote:On July 30 2026 23:47 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 30 2026 13:28 Falling wrote:On July 30 2026 01:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 30 2026 00:39 Falling wrote:
The question cannot be answered as worded because it contains within it a contradiction. I do not think by and large establishment Democrats like Buttigieg are causing infighting. To me it's rather like demanding examples of how the King has joined the rebellion... and how can there be examples when the King is what the rebels are rebelling against. Can you point me to examples of where Buttigieg (we'll stick with him because you name him as representative of your category and I am more familiar with him) is causing infighting?
Also, who in the world is Blue MAGA in this scenario and what defines them? Sure it can. The idea that centrist/moderate/thirdway/etc Democrats are the "King" and progressives/their policy prescriptions are the rebels/rebellion is getting closer to recognizing the absurdity of Blue MAGA's inability to answer though. Blue MAGA are the people so enraptured by thirdway Democrat mythology that they are incapable of providing policies/points that centrist/moderate/thirdway Democrats need to concede on to those to their left or else those centrist/moderate/thirdway Democrats would be self-sabotaging (undermining their own political success). The king and rebels is showing showing how a question framed with a contradiction within it makes no sense and cannot be answered. I am not calling the establishment king and the leftist rebels. + Show Spoiler +
To put it in another way, it is normal for a party to have wings or factions and for there to be disagreement and shifts in momentum on what part prevails in the party. When anyone talks about the infighting from the leftists that is sabotaging the Democrat party, that is NOT what anyone is talking about. So this turnabout on what Pete and establishment dems can do to stop the infighting doesn't make any sense.
Because the infighting that is self-sabatoging is the active measures when one part of the party basically ignores the party they are ostensibly running against and exclusively tear down what is supposedly their party.
It was the leftist, not the establishment that harangued 'Genocide' Joe over Gaza and then vanished when Trump got elected and gave the keys to the kingdom to Netanyahu.
It was leftists, not the establishment that sat on their hands for the election and now say, everything Trump is doing? Harris would have done the exact same thing. (see Hasan and basically anyone on the left that argues there is no difference between Dems and MAGA... the uniparty rhetoric was also strong in MAGA)
It is leftists, not the establishment purity test every level of government official for their position on Israel/Palestine. Doesn't matter how progressive they are. If you aren't maxed out in pro-Pally, River to the Sea, Palestine will be free (of the Jews), then get the hell out, you are no progressive. (see Scott Wiener)
It is leftists, not the establishment that cucked Sanders one of the most progressive senators, replacing him at his own rally, giving right wing media all the fodder they need to show what dweebs Democrats are.
MAGA has a pipeline of White House to Fox News to big podcasters to small podcasters to spread the word of what MAGA should believe next.
Democrats struggle to even express spread a message of what they are up to and especially on leftist platforms, effectively attacked as much as one would expect had they stepped on Fox News. (See Krystal Ball try to steamroll Adam Smith ability to even answer when on Breaking Point.)
I could go on.
Policy debate within the party is good and normal and is not infighting. The tactics used to gain control over the policy that are utilized by the far left are simply not seen by establishment Dems, which is why I don't think the question can be answered as such. (Especially as many of tactics actively discourage people voting.) Buttigieg doesn't do anything close to that as he is on the attack against MAGA and one of the better communicators of what the Democrats stand for, what it should do, and why MAGA ought to be opposed. But it's those tactics which are self-sabotaging because their targets are indiscriminate. Take the strongest progressive candidate. A half year later, that same candidate is dead to the leftists.
"F you and your Zionist handlers!"
Oh. Also, I think you are really stretching to make Blue MAGA/ fetch happen. What makes MAGA, MAGA is not comparable to the malaise of establishment Dems. Completely different problems and completely different levels of loyalty to the Leader over position.
I know. There's no contradiction. Your answer is "No I don't have any either". I didn't need a rant about why you dislike leftists and blame them for so much. It seems literally none of you can comprehend that some centrists/corporate/thirdway policy is just objectively worse than its more progressive alternatives (We're talking even stuff to the right of Bernie). Not just functionally, but electorally too. This is no small part of why we can't have nice things. A smaller fraction of "leftists" than Hillary supporters didn't fall in line and they get endless blame for Democrats' unending hubris giving us Trump 2x. Democrats literally imprison, enslave, and kill Black people/socialists for 100+ years (definitively destructive infighting) and the survivors are supposed to not have any standards or expectations like "don't aid and abet fascists in genocide". This to supposedly protect themselves from the fascism (got Trump anyway despite Black people overwhelmingly supporting Democrats) those same Democrats are laying/laid the foundation for (while also aiding and abetting fascists elsewhere). It's not a good sign that the ostensible "progressives" and "leftists" here (or most places online) literally can't come up with anything centrists/moderate/thirdway Democrats need to stop infighting with progressives about and to concede on so as not to undermine the Democrats' party's capacity to accomplish its ostensible goals (the good ones) and win the races they need to (some they pushed/are pushing progressives out of). How anyone that lists some policies feels about the given policy isn't necessarily even the point. Just being able to identify any of the policies that are more popular with "independent" voters and the Democrats' own party. Basic electoral sense suggests centrists should stop infighting about those things and concede it to the "progressives/independents/leftists". This complete failure by "progressives/leftists" here and generally is a significant part of how Democrats continue to help move society deeper into a right-wing capitalist hellscape. The funniest thing is that I, in more cases then not disagree with Falling's view of what's wrong with Democrats, I mean I kind of went over most of those occurrences in my ironic reply to GH and it's easy to compare and contrast them. All of this does not mean shit to GH, because he's too busy literally doing what the issue is, purity testing people who agree with him, insulting them and ignoring what they write because it's not exactly what he had in mind. It's a great microcosm of what is wrong with progressives today. Yeah, I'm not a "progressive". It's starting to look like there aren't many left here. I do care and I do hope you all talk about it. It simply isn't an answer to the 2020 Blue MAGA version of "Who won the 2020 election" which is: Can anyone come up with any policies/points centrists/moderate/thirdway Democrats need to stop infighting with progressives about and to concede on so as not to undermine the Democrats' party's capacity to accomplish its ostensible goals (the best ones they've got anyway)? EDIT: Looks like you all might talk about it but that's basically what an answer from a progressive (I'd argue anyone who isn't BlueMAGA brainrotted/with a semblance of a conscience) could/should look like. Though it could have just been: just because you guys don't think that one of your closest allies murdering civilians on daily basis is something to be overlooked and ignored for the sake of "party unity" doesn't change the fact that Democrats are the only viable left option in the USA, and most left oriented people have empathy and conscience, so the leadership of the party saying: "I have many jobs as leader … and one is to fight for aid to Israel, all the aid that Israel needs." does not really sit well with them, especially if said in 2025 after 70+ k dead, many of them children. To pretend like "you have to be maxed out on pro-Pally" just reveals a level of disdain that pro-Israel centrists have for anyone who dares criticize the way the Democrats approach this topic, and it's pretty ironic that it's being posted as an attack on "pro-Pally". Most people who are up at arms over what is happening in Gaza and Lebanon are normal, rational people, and trying to blame everything wrong not just with Democrats but USA in general (as Falling did in his post insinuating it's their fault for electing Trump) is pretty unhinged. That dyhb and the rest of people that ostensibly oppose "the IDF murdering 11 and 8 year olds for the crime of crossing an invisible line to gather firewood." will in all probability be joined in a chorus by the rest of BlueMAGA demanding everyone fall in line behind dyhb and vote for the same person dyhb is who will continue to aid and abet crimes like that anyway is important too though. GH you are literally tilting and windmills. I guess good job by summoning someone who will defend what I guess you call "Blue MAGA" positions in Falling, too bad that you insulted and annoyed 100 other people in the process. The funniest part is that in doing that you actually praised your fellow victim dyhb who is basically the most prominent "Blue MAGA" poster here, if we were to believe what he says because a lot of his writings seem much more aligned with actual MAGA.
Falling isn't alone, and there was no praise of dyhb. Just pointing out that everyone that has a problem with dyhb (or Falling's blaming of leftists for Democrat hubris) is going to fall in line behind dyhb to support the same candidate that will also help perpetuate crimes like "the IDF murdering 11 and 8 year olds for the crime of crossing an invisible line to gather firewood." that you (and others would I guess) ostensibly oppose so vehemently
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