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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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WarSame
Canada1950 Posts
On September 25 2020 09:31 Doodsmack wrote: It's all a pattern of corruption that rivals or exceeds any pattern of corruption seen in trump. It's amazing Republicans can say this with a straight face. There is something mentally wrong with the lot of you. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On September 25 2020 10:14 WarSame wrote: It's amazing Republicans can say this with a straight face. There is something mentally wrong with the lot of you. It was really the not-Trump that was colluding with Russia! /s | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/24/trump-was-right-explosive-new-fbi-texts-detail-internal-furor-over-handling-of-crossfire-hurricane-investigation/ | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Shingi11
290 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On September 25 2020 13:38 Shingi11 wrote: I wonder what our first non peaceful transfer will look like. I think the question will be how close it has to be before republicans start backing trumps calls. Biden looks to have enough of a lead and trump is quite behind almost everywhere. I dont think trump can get far on his own, just bluster. How many states will republicans feel safe overturning the vote. We already know they are happy overturning 1(ie. flordia). I think they will go so far as to invalidate 3 states but no more. Sucks that biden is going to have to have to overcome a handicap, but at least it look like his support is still holding up coming into the final stretch. I wouldn't be surprised to see fuckery happen in any state Trump won last time, and I expect any fuckery to go unchallenged. America is playing way down in the dirt these days. | ||
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
On September 25 2020 13:28 JimmiC wrote: Well this is a very disturbing defense. Crazy choice by the defense to instead of going the scared teen in over his head they went with brave soldier in the war on assault rifle rights and maybe civil war starter? Why are so many people actively trying to make things worse. https://ca.yahoo.com/news/kenosha-shooters-defense-portrays-him-140852004.html That is definitely not how I would have expected it to be framed. Although if I remember correctly, this occurred the night after some residential areas were torched (which, as far as I can tell, was the first instance of that happening throughout any city during these protests) so I guess I can see where they would want to play up the moment to seem like a call for patriot action to protect the town. On September 25 2020 13:38 Shingi11 wrote: I wonder what our first non peaceful transfer will look like. It will probably be mostly peaceful. Nothing to worry about. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4416 Posts
On September 24 2020 09:19 JimmiC wrote: If anyone was wondering about partisan bias, how would Republicans react if Obama had said this? And if Hilary had fought for power after winning the popular voice but not electoral college? I mean just a few weeks ago Hillary Clinton said that Joe Biden shouldn't concede the election under any circumstances. So there's that? Trump is just predicting large scale vote by mail fraud, which seems pretty likely. He anticipates the election may be decided by the supreme court. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/sep/23/donald-trump-says-he-expects-us-election-to-end-up-at-supreme-court-video | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8082 Posts
On September 25 2020 15:31 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: I mean just a few weeks ago Hillary Clinton said that Joe Biden shouldn't concede the election under any circumstances. So there's that? Trump is just predicting large scale vote by mail fraud, which seems pretty likely. He anticipates the election may be decided by the supreme court. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/sep/23/donald-trump-says-he-expects-us-election-to-end-up-at-supreme-court-video Source? The length you go at excusing a president who says and actually repeats that he will not leave office if he loses is absolutely sickening. Accepting defeat if you lose an election is the cornerstone of any democracy. A leader who doesn't answer yes if he asked whether he will leave if he loses and instead go on casting doubt on the legitimacy of the election is a pretty fucking big deal. I assume and hope that some republicans are still less blinded and more principled, but if anyone wants a crash course on how democracies die, here you have it. | ||
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Taelshin
Canada420 Posts
Spoiler is a video of Robert Barnes, vivaFrei, Nate brody And Uncivil law. It touches the Taylor case for about the first 45minutes and then goes into SCOTUS. All lawyers, different walks of life(besides being lawyers). It's a good watch and might help to open up/understand the discussion over the last few pages. As far as trump not accepting the results of the election, That's a fantasy drummed up by the worst of our media. I'll believe it when I see it and be ready to throw stones just as hard but I'm not holding my breath, and neither should any of you. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26798 Posts
On September 25 2020 15:31 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: I mean just a few weeks ago Hillary Clinton said that Joe Biden shouldn't concede the election under any circumstances. So there's that? bTrump is just predicting large scale vote by mail fraud, which seems pretty likely. He anticipates the election may be decided by the supreme court. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/sep/23/donald-trump-says-he-expects-us-election-to-end-up-at-supreme-court-video Why is that likely? I’m pretty sure no independent study (some of which were posted in this thread) has found it prevalent as a phenomena. If it were why would it favour any particular candidate anyway? | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8082 Posts
On September 25 2020 18:03 WombaT wrote: Why is that likely? I’m pretty sure no independent study (some of which were posted in this thread) has found it prevalent as a phenomena. If it were why would it favour any particular candidate anyway? Well Trump has spent the last year sabotaging the postal services so there is that. It's authoritarianism 101: create a crisis and pose yourself as the one who is gonna solve it. Even Julius Cesar knew that. If anyone should be screaming about the mail ballots, it's the democrats. It's unlikely they can be counted by election night and they strongly favour the dems. The voter fraud conspiracy theory is for gullible idiots and to prepare his own supporters to his attempts to steal this election. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45937 Posts
On September 25 2020 13:38 Shingi11 wrote: I wonder what our first non peaceful transfer will look like. I think the question will be how close it has to be before republicans start backing trumps calls. Biden looks to have enough of a lead and trump is quite behind almost everywhere. I dont think trump can get far on his own, just bluster. How many states will republicans feel safe overturning the vote. We already know they are happy overturning 1(ie. flordia). I think they will go so far as to invalidate 3 states but no more. Sucks that biden is going to have to have to overcome a handicap, but at least it look like his support is still holding up coming into the final stretch. I wonder how far Trump will try to resist the results if he loses. I hope the transfer is peaceful and he just grumbles some nonsense as he leaves, and doesn't actually try anything stupid or illegal. While people may also argue that they like owning guns for self-defense and hunting, it's particularly interesting that the closest thing to an actual, relevant 2nd Amendment justification (i.e. "being necessary to the security of a free State") could very well be if Trump loses the election but refuses to give up power. That's about as 2A as you can get: taking up arms to stop a tyrannical dictator from refusing to relinquish power after they were democratically voted out of office. I have a funny feeling that the NRA and conservative gun owners will be oddly quiet though, if Trump really does lose and really does try to stick around as president. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26798 Posts
On September 25 2020 17:58 Taelshin wrote: + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbDRIu4J7-4 Spoiler is a video of Robert Barnes, vivaFrei, Nate brody And Uncivil law. It touches the Taylor case for about the first 45minutes and then goes into SCOTUS. All lawyers, different walks of life(besides being lawyers). It's a good watch and might help to open up/understand the discussion over the last few pages. As far as trump not accepting the results of the election, That's a fantasy drummed up by the worst of our media. I'll believe it when I see it and be ready to throw stones just as hard but I'm not holding my breath, and neither should any of you. May give it a go. Cheers man, as we should enjoy laymen’s discussion on scientific matters and defer to when a scientist drops in, likewise matters of the law and lawyers, can be instructive as to particulars. That said there is an ethical component that should run in lockstep with the law but on occasion can be untethered entirely and I think much discussion has been around the former. I’m not sure why you think that’s a fantasy re Trump. Depends what is meant by not accepting the results of the election I guess. Given the rhetorical groundwork Trump has been laying about things like mail-in voting fraud etc. Between graciously leaving office with a good luck for his successor and trying to cling on to power by whatever means exists a middle ground where I think Trump mudslings for a bit and does go into the night. It will be a grudging acceptance, like when a toddler eventually shares their toy with their sibling after a 20 minute argument. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45937 Posts
On September 25 2020 18:09 Biff The Understudy wrote: Well Trump has spent the last year sabotaging the postal services so there is that. It's authoritarianism 101: create a crisis and pose yourself as the one who is gonna solve it. Even Julius Cesar knew that. If anyone should be screaming about the mail ballots, it's the democrats. It's unlikely they can be counted by election night and they strongly favour the dems. The voter fraud conspiracy theory is for gullible idiots and to prepare his own supporters to his attempts to steal this election. I personally don't mind waiting an extra few days in November to make sure all the votes are counted, if necessary, but I also wish that people would mail in their votes early. I've already voted for this upcoming election - I received my voting card/info a few days ago and already mailed it in. | ||
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Taelshin
Canada420 Posts
As for re Trump I just feel like I haven't been shown any proof that trump's going to not accept the election. I've seen what he has said, It get's posted on this forum constantly. But if anyone here as learned anything from Trump, It's that Trump says a lot of things. Also, Not to get into the weeds, but Conservative's would argue that Hillary's Followers and many in the D camp never accepted the results of the last election (or other elections see Stacy Abrams). So it seems to me not something to focus on so strongly. The media is pushing this narrative and I am not happy to see anyone here or anywhere bogged down by it. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22373 Posts
On September 25 2020 18:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: If Trump realises the trouble he is in from the avalanche of lawsuits waiting for him to lose his Presidential immunity? He will go very far. I suspect he will try everything he can to dispute the results and attempt to set himself up as the president-elect.I wonder how far Trump will try to resist the results if he loses. I hope the transfer is peaceful and he just grumbles some nonsense as he leaves, and doesn't actually try anything stupid or illegal. While people may also argue that they like owning guns for self-defense and hunting, it's particularly interesting that the closest thing to an actual, relevant 2nd Amendment justification (i.e. "being necessary to the security of a free State") could very well be if Trump loses the election but refuses to give up power. That's about as 2A as you can get: taking up arms to stop a tyrannical dictator from refusing to relinquish power after they were democratically voted out of office. I have a funny feeling that the NRA and conservative gun owners will be oddly quiet though, if Trump really does lose and really does try to stick around as president. If he doesn't win the elector count and isn't officially the president-elect I consider it over, there is nothing he can realistically do at that point unless the military backs him in an actual coup, which I can't see happening. The end of a Presidents term is hard set at jan 20th. I doesn't matter if he still disputes it at that point, at midday he is no longer President. Now what his followers might do it anyone's guess and I'm not going to try to predict the actions of insane people, I wouldn't be surprised if things might turn ugly but when its the military vs the 2nd amendment, my money is on the military. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On September 25 2020 19:18 Taelshin wrote: @Wombat Yeah for sure I'm interested in and want to understand the ethical/social aspects of it. I never followed the Taylor case that closely. They touch on that for sure( not a lot but a little ). I hope you watch it and look forward to your opinion. As for re Trump I just feel like I haven't been shown any proof that trump's going to not accept the election. I've seen what he has said, It get's posted on this forum constantly. But if anyone here as learned anything from Trump, It's that Trump says a lot of things. Also, Not to get into the weeds, but Conservative's would argue that Hillary and many in the D camp never accepted the results of the last election (or other elections see Stacy Abrams). So it seems to me not something to focus on so strongly. The media is pushing this narrative and I am not happy to see anyone here or anywhere bogged down by it. What are you on ? Hillary called Trump to congratulate him for winning. Is that not accepting the result publicly ? | ||
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Taelshin
Canada420 Posts
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