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On September 17 2020 15:25 TomatoBisque wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2020 09:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 17 2020 08:52 GreenHorizons wrote:What should someone committed to fighting global climate change do? Understand Biden and Democrats are in opposition to the changes they recognize as necessary as someone that takes climate science seriously for a start. Kamala Harris literally cowrote the Climate Equity Act alongside AOC, which is based on the Green New Deal. I think that's a start, and then I think it comes down to voting more progressive Democrats into the House and Senate. Earnest question: where in the Climate Equity Act is there given any power to anyone to actually do anything about climate change? It seems to me like it creates a committee that will make some reports and guidelines every couple years and not much else, but I am not experienced in reading legal documents. There's a bit about how they'll help in rulemaking or but there doesn't seem to be anything about anyone having to actually care about their advice? Is there anything in there that will directly make the changes necessary to combat climate change?
It would create an "Office of Climate and Environmental Justice Accountability" within the White House, the director would be appointed by the President, and the advisors would work closely with the Cabinet and make suggestions. As with every agency and every appointee, it's essentially up to the most powerful people in government to decide whether or not to take their reports and positions seriously, so there's no escape from that... it would depend on who's in charge, as always.
(I assume you're reading the same report as I am: https://www.harris.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/DISCUSSION DRAFT - Climate Equity Act.pdf )
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On September 17 2020 12:04 GreenHorizons wrote:
Generally I see voting primarily as an organizing tool that has some functionality for short term damage mitigation, particularly at the local level. One fundamental difference between myself and pretty much everyone here is that I reject their mythical concept of time and paternal notions that my liberation is contingent on maintaining their comfort within the status quo.
I think you mean you reject their "flat, homogeneous time" and embrace the notion of mythic revolutionary time (?), but to be honest that sounds more and more like mysticism not demystification.
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Some news from Trumpland that crossed the Atlantic:
Another sexual assault allegation, this time in the US Open of 1997.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/17/donald-trump-accused-of-sexual-assault-by-former-model-amy-dorris
and according to him a CDC director didn't know what he was speaking about when speaking about the effectiveness of masks and when vaccines are available. Luckily science isn't political, right?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-54183731
For a foreigner it is just incomprehensible why none of this sticks to the man. And how his own party is still so attached to him after all of this. I have no doubts that as soon as he loses an election (or serves his two terms) Republicans would rather never speak of him again, but I just can't fathom how people can defend him after everything that he has said and done. How people can perceive reality so differently that they accept and excuse and even celebrate Trump's actions.
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On September 17 2020 22:20 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2020 12:04 GreenHorizons wrote:
Generally I see voting primarily as an organizing tool that has some functionality for short term damage mitigation, particularly at the local level. One fundamental difference between myself and pretty much everyone here is that I reject their mythical concept of time and paternal notions that my liberation is contingent on maintaining their comfort within the status quo. I think you mean you reject their "flat, homogeneous time" and embrace the notion of mythic revolutionary time (?), but to be honest that sounds more and more like mysticism not demystification.
No, I meant to crib the concept from MLK.
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So the “myth of time” as in, things will work themselves out over time. The myth of a certain kind of working of time.
Very compatible still with an incrementalist approach.
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On September 17 2020 14:14 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +Given the above, how do we achieve this, in your opinion? What is the correct course of action? How do we achieve it? Honestly I think it boils down to white America looking inward rather than at movements like BLM or myself for those answers (if you think about it, white America has the power under our system to do it themselves even with every BIPOC in the country in opposition). Beyond that, I'm not sure if you're asking what my ideas are, what ideas are out there (that I agree or disagree with to varying degrees), or what BLM and people like LeBron message/plan is? To not be unnecessarily evasive, I'd describe my views as "Freireian influenced Revolutionary Communist, with Anarchist tendencies" probably? "Freire", "Revolutionary", "Communist", "Anarchist" are all large schools of thought but the gist of it is: + Show Spoiler +Freire is the general guide re message/plan of action: Collaborating in the immediate raising of critical consciousness through systemic community engagement. Revolutionary is the framing of the scope and scale of the necessary changes specifically for climate (which science, + Show Spoiler +not to be confused with Scientific American is decided on) and speaks a bit to tactics/strategy/logistics as well. Communist is (in combination with everything else) descriptive of the desired goals and in part how we get there Anarchist is my idealism and frustration manifested in my politics. It's also reflective of the types of messages and actions I find appealing (although it conjures up farv's mention of the libidinal vs "right thing to do")
I get your point, but I would also like to point the convenient inaction of a strongly righteous worldview that relies on every on you changing without you yourself making any change at all.
I know some people who have similar views about the changes they need to make, and while they're not talking about some large societal changes being requested, they do seem to think that they are perfect and that society should change around them. It hasn't worked well for them so far but I'll keep you posted.
In regards to you being Freireian, what are you doing in real life to raise critical consciousness?
By Revolutionary, do you mean a large scale societal change? How do you think this might be accomplished in a country that seems to be (at least historically) so establishment-heavy?
In regards to anarchism, are you saying that it is more of a libidinal/gratifying approach to politics, rather than a ideological or rigorous school of thought?
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Well for one thing he’s posting on this forum to raise consciousness, right? Is your interaction with him not real?
It also would seem to be a mistake to characterize BLM, groups holding autonomous zones, antifa, and other groups engaging in direct action as “Beautiful Souls” who don’t do anything. Even if they aren’t doing it 100% of the time, or even if the people you know aren’t doing anything, there are people with affinities for what GH is saying who are pretty active, and are pressuring places like Minneapolis and Portland to make changes, even if not revolutionary ones, or even if not good ones.
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On September 17 2020 23:13 WarSame wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2020 14:14 GreenHorizons wrote:Given the above, how do we achieve this, in your opinion? What is the correct course of action? How do we achieve it? Honestly I think it boils down to white America looking inward rather than at movements like BLM or myself for those answers (if you think about it, white America has the power under our system to do it themselves even with every BIPOC in the country in opposition). Beyond that, I'm not sure if you're asking what my ideas are, what ideas are out there (that I agree or disagree with to varying degrees), or what BLM and people like LeBron message/plan is? To not be unnecessarily evasive, I'd describe my views as "Freireian influenced Revolutionary Communist, with Anarchist tendencies" probably? "Freire", "Revolutionary", "Communist", "Anarchist" are all large schools of thought but the gist of it is: + Show Spoiler +Freire is the general guide re message/plan of action: Collaborating in the immediate raising of critical consciousness through systemic community engagement. Revolutionary is the framing of the scope and scale of the necessary changes specifically for climate (which science, + Show Spoiler +not to be confused with Scientific American is decided on) and speaks a bit to tactics/strategy/logistics as well. Communist is (in combination with everything else) descriptive of the desired goals and in part how we get there Anarchist is my idealism and frustration manifested in my politics. It's also reflective of the types of messages and actions I find appealing (although it conjures up farv's mention of the libidinal vs "right thing to do") I get your point, but I would also like to point the convenient inaction of a strongly righteous worldview that relies on every on you changing without you yourself making any change at all. I know some people who have similar views about the changes they need to make, and while they're not talking about some large societal changes being requested, they do seem to think that they are perfect and that society should change around them. It hasn't worked well for them so far but I'll keep you posted.
My point was more that it is a horrific, bipartisan, multi-generational failure of epic proportions in the basic human decency of white America that we are where we are. That ostensible allies in white America have the audacity to look to BLM to explain to them how to adhere to basic human decency speaks to how oblivious they are to their role and the morally wicked nature of this country.
I understand the rudimentary aspect of the argument about it being impractical to expect white America to develop a conscience and address their horrific ongoing crimes themselves (since they have the power to do it unilaterally) on their own. I'm pointing out that the massive failure is on the part of white Americans, not BLM's lack of teaching them human decency. So when they look to BLM or LeBron for "SMART demands" they need to recognize (while that may or may not be the only way things are going to change) it is a deeply problematic personal/societal moral and intellectual failure imo.
In regards to you being Freireian, what are you doing in real life to raise critical consciousness?
By Revolutionary, do you mean a large scale societal change? How do you think this might be accomplished in a country that seems to be (at least historically) so establishment-heavy?
In regards to anarchism, are you saying that it is more of a libidinal/gratifying approach to politics, rather than a ideological or rigorous school of thought?
I don't plan on doxxing myself but I'm a part of several community projects to that end. Ranging from gardening, to self-defense, to issue organizing. What about you?
Yes, large scale societal change (though as IgnE points out that will include non-reformist reforms). Through raising critical consciousness and doing what we can to bring about the necessary conditions and preparing for the conditions that are beyond our control/influence. I don't think it will be easy or success is guaranteed within our lifetimes because entrenched powers, their sycophants, and unwitting stooges will fight tooth and nail the whole way. Some guy I heard was popular once said "Give me liberty or give me death" and I think that about sums it up.
As to Anarchy I mean that destroying things can be cathartic and I also think Anarchy has some cool propaganda. Also that the whole no authority society sounds nice if it weren't so naive imo. Granted, ultimately communism and anarchy's imagined end-state aren't terribly dissimilar but communism is for the 'pragmatic left' imo. I enjoyed the CHOP/CHAZ even if it had problems for example.
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And to elaborate, JimmiC, this is why we are at a point where we just want to toss the whole PPB institution into the ocean:
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I mean, George Soros-funded PACs did spend heavily to make him DA, did they not?
The Antifa line to a sitting DA is dumb and abrasive. He may be too keen on catch-and-release, as Multnomah county prosecutors generally have been, but that’s the thing you say.
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On September 17 2020 08:08 GreenHorizons wrote:La Riva if I bother. Show nested quote +On September 17 2020 06:26 Erasme wrote:
He will not vote because as he explained it before, his vote won't matter. So to preserve his moral integrity, he will absent from voting. Or vote blank idk. You make it sound like that reflects poorly on me rather than you and the system?
My bad, i didn't want it to make it sound bad. I just didn't want to start another discussion on that topic.
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On September 17 2020 22:34 Oukka wrote:Some news from Trumpland that crossed the Atlantic: Another sexual assault allegation, this time in the US Open of 1997. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/17/donald-trump-accused-of-sexual-assault-by-former-model-amy-dorrisand according to him a CDC director didn't know what he was speaking about when speaking about the effectiveness of masks and when vaccines are available. Luckily science isn't political, right? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-54183731For a foreigner it is just incomprehensible why none of this sticks to the man. And how his own party is still so attached to him after all of this. I have no doubts that as soon as he loses an election (or serves his two terms) Republicans would rather never speak of him again, but I just can't fathom how people can defend him after everything that he has said and done. How people can perceive reality so differently that they accept and excuse and even celebrate Trump's actions.
It's incomprehensible to many of us here too. Any other president these things would all be giant scandals but for Trump it's just the weekly one. There's basically a religious fervor for him among a large portion of the country.
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Joe Biden would be doing a lot better than Trump on the sexual assault allegations had he not had former staffer Tara Reade come forward with allegations against him. He has refused to open up his University of Delaware archives that contain his papers from when he was a Senator.
Biden is right to try to try to present himself as the better choice for covid. He does have his own problems critiquing Trump’s poor early response, since he was holding big rallies and calling covid travel restrictions as racist in the same timeframe.
The CDC Director has since clarified his controversial claims, really the way he worded the claims, that masks were better than vaccines. His statement comes as prominent Democratic candidates have publicly doubted the production of vaccines because of who’s in the White House.
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Sure, one allegation versus 25+.
Isn't hard to trust the word of a guy who lies 20times per day ? Or are you a hard believer of that healthcare plan supposedly coming in the next 2 weeks ? Again.
You're acting as if Trump had been nothing but honest.
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Trump vs Biden, there's literally no comparison on COVID. Biden was calling those restrictions racist because they targeted China, but no one else that had already had it spread to them. Even when we upped them, we left GB out despite them having the worst handling after the US of western countries.
Trump also had a lot more info about HOW bad it was going to be than Biden did.
More details are coming out on just how ridiculous Trump was early on.
Trump admin killed plan by the USPS to send 5 masks to every household in April, because they were afraid that it would cause panic. I assume they mean "stock market panic", as nothing else makes sense.
According to WaPo, but since it's paywalled here's a rawstory link too.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/09/17/usps-trump-coronavirus-amazon-foia/
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/revealed-usps-had-a-plan-to-send-5-facemasks-to-every-home-in-america-but-the-white-house-ed-it/
On Reade, Tara Reade's story has also been dropped by all but the furthest right news sites, which seems to indicate they all think she has a credibility issue (which can be said for some of Trump's accusers as well, but not all).
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In fact, if you want to understand why anyone with a shred of common sense will doubt his words, feel free to watch his ABC's town hall interview. Lies on lies on lies.
Also apparently, Turning Point has been employing teens to troll on twitter/facebook/insta to avoid getting banned as bots. Totally different from russians bot farms !
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EPT
