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On August 31 2020 17:02 BerserkSword wrote: Riiiight. I am deplorable because I post facts, which I am going to guess you ignored, about the movement that played a large role in turning my hometown of NYC into a danger ridden disaster, in which lives, most of which are those of working class, small business owners, and minorities btw, are being ruined en mass.
I have never seen anything like this in my city in my life, and the ones to blame are the BLM and Antifa thugs and the cancerous Democrat politicians who gaslight and enable them while fucking the innocent over.
This is just one city by the way. It's going on across the country but I don't feel like combing through the vast number of sources and footage.
You are clueless.
I think you demonstrated your idea of "facts" very well with:
BLM doesnt have a chance against their civilian opponents who own and long train with the vast majority of guns and ammunition in the most heavily armed nation on the planet. You saw in Kenosha what happened when the violent elements of BLM and Antifa left their sanctuary cities and tried their antics in gun country. Three convicted criminals tried to lynch a 17 year old country boy and it didn't end well for them.
If you think you can write such shit and then get offended when being called deplorable... good luck, I'm sure you will find some other teary-eyed guys on your side of the aisle to hold your hand. Just don't expect any sympathy elsewhere.
The pearl clutching over BLM as though the Left and Dems must answer for everything anyone remotely associated with the org has ever done is fucking rich, any kind of symmetry with that approach applied to the right and the same people clutch pearls even harder when called to account for literal fucking Nazis. Sure, the left can be associated with the worst of BLM, and the right can be associated with Neo Nazis and Klansmen. Glad we’ve come this far.
On August 31 2020 19:38 farvacola wrote: The pearl clutching over BLM as though the Left and Dems must answer for everything anyone remotely associated with the org has ever done is fucking rich, any kind of symmetry with that approach applied to the right and the same people clutch pearls even harder when called to account for literal fucking Nazis. Sure, the left can be associated with the worst of BLM, and the right can be associated with Neo Nazis and Klansmen. Glad we’ve come this far.
Impossible standards be difficult.
I’m losing track of how many of these libertarian and totally not Nazi adjacent groups there are showing up at protests. Nothing against libertarians but that’s generally the brand your Boogaloo Boys, Patriot Parrots and Gucci Gangs of the world tend to take, both deliberately and disingenuously IMO. Almost forgot the Hypocrisy Hippos.
I wouldn’t tar everyone counter-protesting with this particular brush, there are clearly some of these where provocation and escalating violence is a bonus for them if not the goal outright.
The Kenosha shootings and responses I’m seeing are really quite illustrative of wordviews that are poles apart. Rittenhouse either went down to shoot him some Commies, or was a patriot ‘lynched by 3 convicted criminals’, as Berserk said in here but it’s not something unfamiliar to me.
Things seem to be rather a tinderbox and will probably only get worse before they get better.
He went there to shoot some "libtards". There's a culture of right wing violence that is ignored by law enforcement. Every summer in Portland, you have groups of right wing extremists coming from outside the city to beat up some leftists. This time was particularly eye opening. You have white people on top of cars shooting at black people with airguns in total impunity. If the roles were reversed, you'd have a bloodbath cuz "airguns are so similar to real guns the officers couldn't know". www.nytimes.com
You’re right, BLM is a terrorist org and Kyle Rittenhouse acted in direct lockstep with BLM’s mission when he shot and killed two people in Kenosha. BLM encourages violence against protesters and total apologia for cops of all kinds.
This was in response to castleeMg's first thought, which he quickly backed down from and replaced with the above.
On August 31 2020 23:01 castleeMg wrote: Edit: on 2nd thought I would rather not argue with low IQ liberal troglodytes. Trump 2020, mods you can ban me now I guess
Haha amazing. Not a liberal myself, although something of a troglodyte.
Even if it were the case that people didn’t follow officers’ commands and that was why they were shot that’s still hardly an ideal situation. That that demonstrably isn’t the case in countless examples where people at home in their beds end up getting shot anyway is indicative of even worse problems.
@Berserk sure BLM itself, despite being a rather amorphous organisation, although not as much as Antifa definitely has plenty of Marxist stuff there.
How many people out there protesting or repeating the slogan are actually signed up to all that stuff, and how many are galvanised specifically on the issue of police brutality? And are probably generally pissed off for all sorts of socio-economic reasons.
I’d wager the latter rather heavily outweighs the former. I could be wrong on that. I don’t think the odd quote from lots of different people really proves much on that account. That’s the nature of mass movements that also include amorphous non-hierarchical organisations. Although at least you didn’t mention George Soros so that’s something.
On August 31 2020 12:26 Danglars wrote: I'm still shocked that BLM polled a net +25 approval rating in Wisconsin, then fell to +0 in two months. It's more of a change in the tides than I was willing to hope for.
People are finally seeing BLM (the capital letter movement not the lower case simple concept of "black lives matter [too]") for what it has always been - a racist, Marxist, and violent movement
People in this thread were unable to understand it when I explained it to them, so maybe it coming straight from the horse's mouth will make things easier to understand:
Their "No justice, no peace." narrative will lead them to their demise. What they promote is not justice, and if they insist on non-peaceful interactions they will get eviscerated. Forget about the fact that federal operatives should have put an end to BLM (and Antifa) violence long ago if Trump actually did his job of protecting the rights of the innocent Americans being victimized - BLM doesnt have a chance against their civilian opponents who own and long train with the vast majority of guns and ammunition in the most heavily armed nation on the planet. You saw in Kenosha what happened when the violent elements of BLM and Antifa left their sanctuary cities and tried their antics in gun country. Three convicted criminals tried to lynch a 17 year old country boy and it didn't end well for them.
If Trump did his job of defending the rights of innocent civilians then there would be no BLM.
I wonder how many of these peaceful protesters are okay with employment based healthcare, which is responsible for the deaths of many more black (and any color really) people by orders of magnitude than police brutality? I guess when rich people don't stand to lose money real change can be enacted.
On September 01 2020 00:44 mierin wrote: I wonder how many of these peaceful protesters are okay with employment based healthcare, which is responsible for the deaths of many more black (and any color really) people by orders of magnitude than police brutality? I guess when rich people don't stand to lose money real change can be enacted.
Change hasn't been enacted on police brutality for how many decades now. To spark mass protest requires an emotional appeal, which videos of outright murder and the subsequent lack of justice has. Numbers alone don't move people, just look at the continued disregard of the deaths from covid.
On August 31 2020 23:42 Wombat_NornIron wrote: @Berserk sure BLM itself, despite being a rather amorphous organisation, although not as much as Antifa definitely has plenty of Marxist stuff there.
How many people out there protesting or repeating the slogan are actually signed up to all that stuff, and how many are galvanised specifically on the issue of police brutality? And are probably generally pissed off for all sorts of socio-economic reasons.
I’d wager the latter rather heavily outweighs the former. I could be wrong on that. I don’t think the odd quote from lots of different people really proves much on that account. That’s the nature of mass movements that also include amorphous non-hierarchical organisations. Although at least you didn’t mention George Soros so that’s something.
On August 31 2020 17:07 Uldridge wrote: So, Berserk, serious question: these posts seem conspiratorial to me in the sense there seems to be either a larger organisation behind it, puppeteering BLM and Antifa, or do you think they're simply doing this to get an upper hand as minorities?
We can discuss, until the cows come home, what the degree of organization of the movement is, and who is backing it.
Here are some facts though:
- A significant number of "elite" entities in the country - ranging from mega corporations to politicians, openly support it and enable all of their activities. Hell - my own party's presidential nominee, Jo Jorgensn, is now supporting the movement (Libertarian party has lost a member until they get their act together) - There DO seem to be leaders of the movement, even if it's not extremely rigid in structure. - They are organized and powerful enough to influence government activity ranging from local to federal level. some examples: BLM puts forth the BREATHE Act (federal level) https://www.colorlines.com/articles/movement-black-lives-introduces-breathe-act Mayor De Blasio of NYC giving special privileges to BLM such as allowing them to assemble during the lockdown while nobody else can, and unauthorized use of taxpayer money to fund creation and protection of BLM murals on the streets. https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-black-lives-matter-marches-can-continue-despite-large-event-ban-de-blasio-says
I'm not going to pretend to know the exact workings of behind the scenes geo-politics, but I can observe patterns and manifestations.
As a brown minority who believes in the Constitution, I don't think think the movement helps minorities.
On August 31 2020 17:30 Nouar wrote: For those not understanding the violence and not peaceful protests, maybe have a read at this article, explaining the life of a black diplomat in possession of all her papers, at the border. It's pretty self-explanatory, and might help understand why the most urgent reform is the racism of police and border patrol. THEN and ONLY then you might be able to have some calm discussions once lawful people are treated as they should.
And this behaviour and large-scale recruitment issues are not the democrats' fault. At best it's shared. But bad recruitment is one of the items bringing things over the line.
I'm brown, born in the US, and I have lived almost my entire life in NYC, the city with the most powerful PD in the country, including post 9/11 NYC. I've actually been stopped and risked, been to booking, etc, when I was younger and this article does nothing to help me understand their violence. Anecdotally, literally all the minority friends i grew up with don't understand it either.
On August 31 2020 18:54 mahrgell wrote:
If you think you can write such shit and then get offended when being called deplorable... good luck, I'm sure you will find some other teary-eyed guys on your side of the aisle to hold your hand. Just don't expect any sympathy elsewhere.
I'm not offended at all.
I have "tears"....but not for me. I am basically retired and have means to defend myself when things get hot. I have "tears" for the innocent vulnerable people getting demolished in all this. Put at the mercy of violent mobs enabled by politicians. Of course you don't know that, presumably sitting in Germany (based on your profile tag), getting all your information from internet echo chambers like this one.
On August 31 2020 22:16 JimmiC wrote:
The big difference between the sides is when someone lowers themselves to your sides level (and since you are praising him I'm confident you are at that level), you don't see posts congratulating the violence. Your final statement is so twisted, I assume your just trying to make some libs mad and be a internet edgelord, but if you actually believe what you wrote I don't feel anger just embarrassment for you that you think that is a cool and good way to be.
I believe in the right to self-defense.
On September 01 2020 00:34 Jockmcplop wrote:
If Trump did his job of defending the rights of innocent civilians then there would be no BLM.
I fully agree
That may or may not be the case but I agree - the main issue is that the American electorate is constantly electing the wrong people.
If everyone started voting for libertarian candidates overnight, things would be A LOT better.
But alas, Trump is a lifelong democrat, a NYC-type liberal, who merely recently ran as a Republican.
If everyone started voting for libertarian candidates overnight, things would be A LOT better.
But alas, Trump is a lifelong democrat, a NYC-type liberal, who merely recently ran as a Republican.
Its strange, but socialists say the same thing about socialist candidates, and liberals say the same thing about liberal candidates. It *could* be that trying to fix humans using politics isn't going to work.
He was being chased down a street by an angry mob trying to "get him." He was even struck with fists, skateboard, and had a handgun pulled on him. Kyle did not shoot until his back was to the literal ground.
Pretty clear cases of self-defense to me.
Crossing state border with a gun to protect businesses is not illegal. Self-defense is not illegal. a 17 year old with an AR-15 is a misdemeanor.
The Kyle Rittenhouse story was also broken down by the New York Times. One key idea is that he was not the first to shoot. He is being pursued and somebody he couldn't see shoots his gun, causing Rittenhouse to turn around and see a pursuer lunge at him. He walks on the charge for not being the one to shoot first. Queue up the track where activists use that to justify some more violence on the streets.
On September 01 2020 01:45 BerserkSword wrote: He was being chased down a street by an angry mob trying to "get him." He was even struck with fists, skateboard, and had a handgun pulled on him. Kyle did not shoot until his back was to the literal ground.
That apparently happened shortly after that 17 year old boy with an illegal firearm in his possession, as i understand, as he is 17, fired multiple shots at people after "they threw a plastic bag at him". So you're wrong. Don't want to change your mind, just pointing that out.
Crossing state border with a gun to protect businesses that aren't yours is vigilantism. More so, it shows an intent for conflict. Noone with pacifist intentions will bring a gun to protect buildings in a town that isn't his. It might be self defense. But it wouldn't have happened if he wasn't trying to enter a conflict. He is quite literally the definition of a violent right wing extremist trying to stoke the fire.
Almost all of the corporate posturing etc came after shit hit the fan and it became a huge emotive issue. Though not so much when looting and violence is factored in, but the majority of folks support some manifestation of the ‘black lives matter’ slogan and corporate America bent with the direction of the wind.
I’m not seeing much of a pattern beyond something reactive.
Let’s say we can put Pandora back in her box for a bit, take BLM out of it, can rein in the violence etc. What then? Do you think the police need reform and in what manner?
Regarding the Kenosha shootings, maybe? Assuming he’s being honest about his motivations.
Be it Arbery, this, George Zimmerman etc etc frequently the only thing worse than police is people LARPing as police and fucking it up even more.
It’s idiotic behaviour, even if ultimately the scenario in which self defence was justified, everything leading up to this was completely avoidable.
Protests and disturbances aren’t exactly bastions of people under control of their emotional responses, but hey let’s add the accelerant of people with guns walking around.
EPT
