Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On August 31 2020 03:55 Danglars wrote: Another shit show in Portland. You may remember that far from protests ending as Trump withdrew his federal law enforcement, it moved to police stations. They have been set on fire. There was video of protesters stopping up streets and pulling the drivers out to beat them unconscious. Riots were declared 12 times since the federal police left in August alone (maybe higher now), whereas the May & July only 10 total. Seattle too had an incident with protesters setting fires in a police complex while trying to cement the exit doors. Pretty bad. Violence is also continuing in Minneapolis:
The thread has probably seen enough in Kenosha. Businesses burned down. Immigrants and minority business owners are furious. That downtown area won't recover for quite some time if you've seen the videos. + Show Spoiler [biz owner attacked] +
Which brings us to the most recent BLM/left groups violence: Trump supporter and/or Patriot Prayer guy identified by protesters and shot in the street. "We got a Trumper right here" preceded the shooting. + Show Spoiler [violence] +
A far left or Antifa crowd later cheered the death, alleging he was a fascist and deserved to die. This happened after Portland's Democratic Mayor bragged about refusing federal help, if any of you are inclined to believe that "Trump's America" will take the blame for this.
Two Chicago police officers were shot last night during a traffic stop, and a third officer returned fire, hitting the driver. This is an example scene of why police should be wary during confrontations with possibly armed suspects.
These are some of the scenes that are being broadcast across America. Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, Chicago, DC, Kenosha. Biden has said, in response to questions about whether he will defund the police, that he favors reducing the responsibilities assigned to the police and redirecting some of the funding for police into social services [etc]. Several mayors have refused federal help for ongoing rioting and other violence in their cities. It is incumbent upon the local and state authorities to protect their citizens, or angry citizens will see their impotence and vote accordingly. Biden has since made more powerful statements condemning the violence. Some left-wing figures have alleged that internal Democratic polling showed a need for Biden to more distinctly condemn the ongoing violence.
I'm almost surprised that trump hasn't federalized the national guard in some of these states and . That would seem to be the traditional response in a situation like this. I guess it's viewed as too risky or something right now.
If he stops the riots they stop being something he can attack Democrats with.
He's bragging about how Kenosha is quiet after he sent in the National Guard at the request of state of state and local officials.
These blue states and cities have really screwed themselves, besides being morally bankrupt. Either way now, Trump wins this issue. I dont know that this new sudden, not-quite-strong-enough condemnation from Biden and the like is going to fool anyone, especially when they wont call for federal help. People know Trump is president, but they also know who their mayor and governor are, who could stop this. But the dare not ask for help from the "facist" which is what they would call him if he acted on his own.
They just have to hope this ends on its own or wait until it gets bad enough that they have no choice. If they are really going to go with "but this is happening on Trump's watch!" then... yikes.
The violence and looting does need to stop. I think it's pretty generous though to say "Trump wins the issue" unless you mean it in the most Machiavellian sense. Let's not forget that he has been openly inciting hatred, paranoia and extremism since the beginning of his campaign. He's even intensified it during the unrest caused by corona virus and police violence. I don't see how it is such a big win if he helps put out a fire that he's played a large part in starting. A crack down with federal troops doesn't seem like a very long term solution either.
On August 31 2020 03:55 Danglars wrote: Another shit show in Portland. You may remember that far from protests ending as Trump withdrew his federal law enforcement, it moved to police stations. They have been set on fire. There was video of protesters stopping up streets and pulling the drivers out to beat them unconscious. Riots were declared 12 times since the federal police left in August alone (maybe higher now), whereas the May & July only 10 total. Seattle too had an incident with protesters setting fires in a police complex while trying to cement the exit doors. Pretty bad. Violence is also continuing in Minneapolis: https://twitter.com/TheStuffOfMemes/status/1299069765017890819
The thread has probably seen enough in Kenosha. Businesses burned down. Immigrants and minority business owners are furious. That downtown area won't recover for quite some time if you've seen the videos. + Show Spoiler [biz owner attacked] +
Which brings us to the most recent BLM/left groups violence: Trump supporter and/or Patriot Prayer guy identified by protesters and shot in the street. "We got a Trumper right here" preceded the shooting. + Show Spoiler [violence] +
A far left or Antifa crowd later cheered the death, alleging he was a fascist and deserved to die. This happened after Portland's Democratic Mayor bragged about refusing federal help, if any of you are inclined to believe that "Trump's America" will take the blame for this.
Two Chicago police officers were shot last night during a traffic stop, and a third officer returned fire, hitting the driver. This is an example scene of why police should be wary during confrontations with possibly armed suspects.
These are some of the scenes that are being broadcast across America. Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, Chicago, DC, Kenosha. Biden has said, in response to questions about whether he will defund the police, that he favors reducing the responsibilities assigned to the police and redirecting some of the funding for police into social services [etc]. Several mayors have refused federal help for ongoing rioting and other violence in their cities. It is incumbent upon the local and state authorities to protect their citizens, or angry citizens will see their impotence and vote accordingly. Biden has since made more powerful statements condemning the violence. Some left-wing figures have alleged that internal Democratic polling showed a need for Biden to more distinctly condemn the ongoing violence.
I'm almost surprised that trump hasn't federalized the national guard in some of these states and . That would seem to be the traditional response in a situation like this. I guess it's viewed as too risky or something right now.
The opposition has claimed that he's a fascist running over norms, so he should wait until states request federal help. Frankly, the Democrats could use one or two mayors that get a handle on this and show Americans that not every local Democratic politicians is as stupid or incompetent as Wheeler, Lightfoot, Durkan, or Bowser.
The Insurrection Act stuff would be appropriate if the violence escalates to dozens killed and entire city centers burning. Maybe that's the ultimate end to all this if the trend towards increased violence and arson builds much more.
Been pretty straightforward about the demands. No justice, no peace. It's not rocket science.
No justice, no peace. No peace, no Biden. If you want to say far-left groups like Antifa anticipate and want this, I'm about halfway to agreeing with you.
More towards the thread rather than GH: I wrote that megapost here, because I was noticing the subtle change in left-aligned media and Democratic party figures. At first, the rhetoric was "mostly peaceful" and basically ignored cop injuries, looting, lasers, mortar fireworks, and the rest. Now, it's more like "it's not mostly peaceful, and that's Trump's fault."
I don't really care if you call it Antifa or black bloc or far left groups. I just want to see the recognition of Democrats moving from the "Antifa/BLM violence doesn't exist" to "Antifa/BLM violence exists because of Trump." That's exactly what Republicans want the country to see: The Democrats that run these dense urban progressive enclaves will not take ownership of what happens in their localities, and they'll blame the nearest Republican when things go sour. No accepting of federal help, no accepting of who runs the police and mayor's office, just a lot of excuses and pointing fingers.
Been pretty straightforward about the demands. No justice, no peace. It's not rocket science.
No justice, no peace. No peace, no Biden.
Actually, it's "no justice, no peace - no peace, more deaths".
And in fact, if Trump can position himself (like he's trying to) as the "law and order" president (i bet there's people gullible enough to buy into that), there will be peace without justice too.
Not sure how deluded GH is, but of course there's peace without justice. It's called oppression. Actual oppression. The history is full of it. Remember Tiananmen square? No justice - but peace. People oppressed. Hell, even in the USA in the 50s - peace, but not justice, and oppression.
If Trump gets reelected, or let me rephrase this, gets confirmation that his course of actions so far were correct, the riots will stop soon. Plenty of people will get incarcerated (or worse), until the rioting stops. And it will stop eventually, it just needs enough "encouraging" by the authorities. And the funniest part is, that GH and his fellowship will blame "teh guberment" for it, rather than themselves. How dare the government to violently oppress you people, peacefully setting fire to other peoples property. How dare the US elect Trump again when you did nothing to prevent a proven racist and bigot who has a history of anti-black measures getting reelected. How dare people, to not accept that you assume yourself the judge of "justice".
This isn't rocket science. So if i were in your shoes, deluded to the point of no return, i wouldn't try to be patronising by saying "this isn't rocket science" - especially if you, for some absolutely idiotic reason that i can't even follow, think that the worst course of action possible (creating more resentment) leads to the best outcome for you.
And, to reiterate that point: you're actively getting Trump reelected. This for me just leads to the conclusion that you're actually not trying to get "justice", but just want to see the world burn. Yes, it's another pest or cholera choice in the presidential race, but if the choice is between pest and cholera with proven history of anti-black actions, you probably should try to prevent that guy from being elected. If, of course, "justice for blacks" were the goal.
Been pretty straightforward about the demands. No justice, no peace. It's not rocket science.
No justice, no peace. No peace, no Biden.
Actually, it's "no justice, no peace - no peace, more deaths".
I actually understand that if violent rioting and mob justice continues, there will be more deaths. The rioters certainly are willing to tolerate deaths and call them deaths of fascists. See my previous post.
Been pretty straightforward about the demands. No justice, no peace. It's not rocket science.
No justice, no peace. No peace, no Biden.
Actually, it's "no justice, no peace - no peace, more deaths".
And in fact, if Trump can position himself (like he's trying to) as the "law and order" president (i bet there's people gullible enough to buy into that), there will be peace without justice too.
Not sure how deluded GH is, but of course there's peace without justice. It's called oppression. Actual oppression. The history is full of it. Remember Tiananmen square? No justice - but peace. People oppressed. Hell, even in the USA in the 50s - peace, but not justice, and oppression.
If Trump gets reelected, or let me rephrase this, gets confirmation that his course of actions so far were correct, the riots will stop soon. Plenty of people will get incarcerated (or worse), until the rioting stops. And it will stop eventually, it just needs enough "encouraging" by the authorities. And the funniest part is, that GH and his fellowship will blame "teh guberment" for it, rather than themselves. How dare the government to violently oppress you people, peacefully setting fire to other peoples property. How dare the US elect Trump again when you did nothing to prevent a proven racist and bigot who has a history of anti-black measures getting reelected. How dare people, to not accept that you assume yourself the judge of "justice".
This isn't rocket science. So if i were in your shoes, deluded to the point of no return, i wouldn't try to be patronising by saying "this isn't rocket science" - especially if you, for some absolutely idiotic reason that i can't even follow, think that the worst course of action possible (creating more resentment) leads to the best outcome for you.
And, to reiterate that point: you're actively getting Trump reelected. This for me just leads to the conclusion that you're actually not trying to get "justice", but just want to see the world burn. Yes, it's another pest or cholera choice in the presidential race, but if the choice is between pest and cholera with proven history of anti-black actions, you probably should try to prevent that guy from being elected. If, of course, "justice for blacks" were the goal.
If Trump were to get re-elected it means a sufficient portion of America doesn’t really give a shit on these issues anyway.
I’m not a particular fan of needless rioting by any means, it is extremely counter-productive in many ways. Harms people who have nothing to do with these grievances.
But hey maybe do something about the grievances themselves instead of handwringing on methods and hey people aren’t rioting so much.
Few people want to see the world burn, it already is and it’s what one chooses to do from there.
Been pretty straightforward about the demands. No justice, no peace. It's not rocket science.
No justice, no peace. No peace, no Biden.
Actually, it's "no justice, no peace - no peace, more deaths".
I actually understand that if violent rioting and mob justice continues, there will be more deaths. The rioters certainly are willing to tolerate deaths and call them deaths of fascists. See my previous post.
Where was this moral outrage when people were driving their cars into peaceful protesters?
Why do you keep doing the moral outrage shtick? You use it so often and it is so transparent. You need something new in the tool box it is getting so tired.
Go back a bit and people were still pissy for Colin Kapernick having the temerity to take a knee.
The most peaceful protest imaginable and that’s still an issue, almost as if it’s not the methods people have a problem with. Not to mention the behaviour we’ve seen from right wing counter-protestors, predictably ended rather badly in recent times.
Not striking Danglars with this specific charge by any means.
Hey I’m not the President either, although if I actually tried to represent my citizenry I’d probably not go down the ‘when the looting starts the shooting starts’ path.
Been pretty straightforward about the demands. No justice, no peace. It's not rocket science.
No justice, no peace. No peace, no Biden.
Actually, it's "no justice, no peace - no peace, more deaths".
And in fact, if Trump can position himself (like he's trying to) as the "law and order" president (i bet there's people gullible enough to buy into that), there will be peace without justice too.
Not sure how deluded GH is, but of course there's peace without justice. It's called oppression. Actual oppression. The history is full of it. Remember Tiananmen square? No justice - but peace. People oppressed. Hell, even in the USA in the 50s - peace, but not justice, and oppression.
If Trump gets reelected, or let me rephrase this, gets confirmation that his course of actions so far were correct, the riots will stop soon. Plenty of people will get incarcerated (or worse), until the rioting stops. And it will stop eventually, it just needs enough "encouraging" by the authorities. And the funniest part is, that GH and his fellowship will blame "teh guberment" for it, rather than themselves. How dare the government to violently oppress you people, peacefully setting fire to other peoples property. How dare the US elect Trump again when you did nothing to prevent a proven racist and bigot who has a history of anti-black measures getting reelected. How dare people, to not accept that you assume yourself the judge of "justice".
This isn't rocket science. So if i were in your shoes, deluded to the point of no return, i wouldn't try to be patronising by saying "this isn't rocket science" - especially if you, for some absolutely idiotic reason that i can't even follow, think that the worst course of action possible (creating more resentment) leads to the best outcome for you.
And, to reiterate that point: you're actively getting Trump reelected. This for me just leads to the conclusion that you're actually not trying to get "justice", but just want to see the world burn. Yes, it's another pest or cholera choice in the presidential race, but if the choice is between pest and cholera with proven history of anti-black actions, you probably should try to prevent that guy from being elected. If, of course, "justice for blacks" were the goal.
If Trump were to get re-elected it means a sufficient portion of America doesn’t really give a shit on these issues anyway.
I’m not a particular fan of needless rioting by any means, it is extremely counter-productive in many ways. Harms people who have nothing to do with these grievances.
But hey maybe do something about the grievances themselves instead of handwringing on methods and hey people aren’t rioting so much.
Few people want to see the world burn, it already is and it’s what one chooses to do from there.
Never ceases to amaze me how people keep making the same tired arguments used against MLK and don't realize which side they are arguing in favor of.
Some people just really love some good handwringing I guess.
Been pretty straightforward about the demands. No justice, no peace. It's not rocket science.
No justice, no peace. No peace, no Biden.
Actually, it's "no justice, no peace - no peace, more deaths".
I actually understand that if violent rioting and mob justice continues, there will be more deaths. The rioters certainly are willing to tolerate deaths and call them deaths of fascists. See my previous post.
Where was this moral outrage when people were driving their cars into peaceful protesters?
Why do you keep doing the moral outrage shtick? You use it so often and it is so transparent. You need something new in the tool box it is getting so tired.
Go back a bit and people were still pissy for Colin Kapernick having the temerity to take a knee.
The most peaceful protest imaginable and that’s still an issue, almost as if it’s not the methods people have a problem with. Not to mention the behaviour we’ve seen from right wing counter-protestors, predictably ended rather badly in recent times.
Not striking Danglars with this specific charge by any means.
Hey I’m not the President either, although if I actually tried to represent my citizenry I’d probably not go down the ‘when the looting starts the shooting starts’ path.
Kaepernick with the knee, the cops=pigs socks, the Che Guevara shirt, and the statements afterwards. It was your sneak peak into what was to come. A couple years later, they were smashing statues of abolitionists and Union generals. There's nothing to unite us as Americans, so tear down the history, haha!
The whole "looting starts, shooting starts" bit was over the top in Trumpian manner. Too bad the Democrats are a little too disordered staring at looted and burnt businesses to write their "mostly peaceful protest" headlines. They were largely ignored until the internal polling showed that voters blamed their local Democrats and not Trump.
I'm still shocked that BLM polled a net +25 approval rating in Wisconsin, then fell to +0 in two months. It's more of a change in the tides than I was willing to hope for.
On August 31 2020 12:26 Danglars wrote: I'm still shocked that BLM polled a net +25 approval rating in Wisconsin, then fell to +0 in two months. It's more of a change in the tides than I was willing to hope for.
People are finally seeing BLM (the capital letter movement not the lower case simple concept of "black lives matter [too]") for what it has always been - a racist, Marxist, and violent movement
People in this thread were unable to understand it when I explained it to them, so maybe it coming straight from the horse's mouth will make things easier to understand:
Their "No justice, no peace." narrative will lead them to their demise. What they promote is not justice, and if they insist on non-peaceful interactions they will get eviscerated. Forget about the fact that federal operatives should have put an end to BLM (and Antifa) violence long ago if Trump actually did his job of protecting the rights of the innocent Americans being victimized - BLM doesnt have a chance against their civilian opponents who own and long train with the vast majority of guns and ammunition in the most heavily armed nation on the planet. You saw in Kenosha what happened when the violent elements of BLM and Antifa left their sanctuary cities and tried their antics in gun country. Three convicted criminals tried to lynch a 17 year old country boy and it didn't end well for them.
Riiiight. I am deplorable because I post facts, which I am going to guess you ignored, about the movement that played a large role in turning my hometown of NYC into a danger ridden disaster, in which lives, most of which are those of working class, small business owners, and minorities btw, are being ruined en mass.
I have never seen anything like this in my city in my life, and the ones to blame are the BLM and Antifa thugs and the cancerous Democrat politicians who gaslight and enable them while fucking the innocent over.
So, Berserk, serious question: these posts seem conspiratorial to me in the sense there seems to be either a larger organisation behind it, puppeteering BLM and Antifa, or do you think they're simply doing this to get an upper hand as minorities?
For those not understanding the violence and not peaceful protests, maybe have a read at this article, explaining the life of a black diplomat in possession of all her papers, at the border. It's pretty self-explanatory, and might help understand why the most urgent reform is the racism of police and border patrol. THEN and ONLY then you might be able to have some calm discussions once lawful people are treated as they should.
And this behaviour and large-scale recruitment issues are not the democrats' fault. At best it's shared. But bad recruitment is one of the items bringing things over the line.
EPT
