Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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Based on this recounting of events I would say that he may end up doing some time as long as the video evidence backs it up.
He won't do any time based on the charges the DA is presenting (maybe possession). No one is going to convict for first degree with this:
McGinnis said he did not hear Rosenbaum and Rittenhouse exchange any words, and said Rosenbaum was trying to get Rittenhouse’s gun, prosecutors said.
Huber has a skateboard in his right hand and appears to be reaching for his gun with his left as the skateboard makes contact with Rittenhouse’s left shoulder, prosecutors said.
Huber looks to be trying to pull the gun away from Rittenhouse, and Rittenhouse rolls to his left side, prosecutors said. The gun is then pointed at Huber’s body as Rittenhouse fires one round, prosecutors said.
Grosskreutz appeared to have a handgun in his right hand when he was shot, prosecutors said.
+ the video evidence.
Manslaughter at best, but the DA is in a rock and a hard place. Charge to the crimes and he will get pilloried, go for the throat with the first degree stuff he/she likely knows has no chance of sticking and deal with the fall out 8 months from now or whatever. Pure politics.
Kinda lays bare the good guy with a gun theology doesn't it.
I don't know, would you call the cops if you were taken hostage, robbed at gun point, or a myriad of instances of bodily harm? Substitute cop with whatever institution or person you think is more reputable. You still expect "good guy" with gun to come save you, right? What about the military? Good guy with guns? Like I don't know how people can disconnect the two. When someone is shooting up a mall or school what do they do...they call presumably, the good guy with a gun to come save the day. I don't know man...
"Good guy with a gun" refers to an armed civilian, like this dumbfuck kid who just murdered two people.
No, it's more nuanced than your definition, as your definition encompasses armed robbers, murderers, etc. I mean the kid is likely a dumbfuck, but so is the person who instigated the altercation and tried to take his weapon. You know, there can be two wrong sides. It is nice to know that people are anti-police, but also think of them as the only legitimate arbiters of the "peace". Interesting.
Let's also not forget the pretense here - a riotous city. It's not exactly your local church, mall, restaurant, etc. where some bystander is concealed carrying, but by all means lump them together. Generalizations are good around here.
To clarify some things about this incident, the person with the rifle is knocked (edit: it appears he trips in other videos) to the ground, then kicked in the head (kicking a person in the head while they are on the ground is considered a deadly assault in many places in the U.S.), then hit on the head with a skateboard (also considered deadly assault in most places), he shoots the person with the skateboard (this person dies), then a 3rd person runs up to him with a pistol in his hand, the person with the rifle shoots the person with the pistol in the arm. All of this occurs in 5 seconds.
Based on this recounting of events I would say that he may end up doing some time as long as the video evidence backs it up.
He won't do any time based on the charges the DA is presenting (maybe possession). No one is going to convict for first degree with this:
McGinnis said he did not hear Rosenbaum and Rittenhouse exchange any words, and said Rosenbaum was trying to get Rittenhouse’s gun, prosecutors said.
Huber has a skateboard in his right hand and appears to be reaching for his gun with his left as the skateboard makes contact with Rittenhouse’s left shoulder, prosecutors said.
Huber looks to be trying to pull the gun away from Rittenhouse, and Rittenhouse rolls to his left side, prosecutors said. The gun is then pointed at Huber’s body as Rittenhouse fires one round, prosecutors said.
Grosskreutz appeared to have a handgun in his right hand when he was shot, prosecutors said.
+ the video evidence.
Manslaughter at best, but the DA is in a rock and a hard place. Charge to the crimes and he will get pilloried, go for the throat with the first degree stuff he/she likely knows has no chance of sticking and deal with the fall out 8 months from now or whatever. Pure politics.
Kinda lays bare the good guy with a gun theology doesn't it.
I don't know, would you call the cops if you were taken hostage, robbed at gun point, or a myriad of instances of bodily harm? Substitute cop with whatever institution or person you think is more reputable. You still expect "good guy" with gun to come save you, right? What about the military? Good guy with guns? Like I don't know how people can disconnect the two. When someone is shooting up a mall or school what do they do...they call presumably, the good guy with a gun to come save the day. I don't know man...
"Good guy with a gun" refers to an armed civilian, like this dumbfuck kid who just murdered two people.
No, it's more nuanced than your definition, as your definition encompasses armed robbers, murderers, etc. I mean the kid is likely a dumbfuck, but so is the person who instigated the altercation and tried to take his weapon. You know, there can be two wrong sides. It is nice to know that people are anti-police, but also think of them as the only legitimate arbiters of the "peace". Interesting.
Let's also not forget the pretense here - a riotous city. It's not exactly your local church, mall, restaurant, etc. where some bystander is concealed carrying, but by all means lump them together. Generalizations are good around here.
I don't know who you are referring to with your "people that are anti police". And in in the same breath you complain about lack of nuance and generalization. And yes let's not forget that a "riotous city" is where this person came to from out of state to openly brandish his assault rifle at people he is antagonistic to. That apparently is not instigation to you?
Based on this recounting of events I would say that he may end up doing some time as long as the video evidence backs it up.
He won't do any time based on the charges the DA is presenting (maybe possession). No one is going to convict for first degree with this:
McGinnis said he did not hear Rosenbaum and Rittenhouse exchange any words, and said Rosenbaum was trying to get Rittenhouse’s gun, prosecutors said.
Huber has a skateboard in his right hand and appears to be reaching for his gun with his left as the skateboard makes contact with Rittenhouse’s left shoulder, prosecutors said.
Huber looks to be trying to pull the gun away from Rittenhouse, and Rittenhouse rolls to his left side, prosecutors said. The gun is then pointed at Huber’s body as Rittenhouse fires one round, prosecutors said.
Grosskreutz appeared to have a handgun in his right hand when he was shot, prosecutors said.
+ the video evidence.
Manslaughter at best, but the DA is in a rock and a hard place. Charge to the crimes and he will get pilloried, go for the throat with the first degree stuff he/she likely knows has no chance of sticking and deal with the fall out 8 months from now or whatever. Pure politics.
Kinda lays bare the good guy with a gun theology doesn't it.
I don't know, would you call the cops if you were taken hostage, robbed at gun point, or a myriad of instances of bodily harm? + Show Spoiler +
Substitute cop with whatever institution or person you think is more reputable. You still expect "good guy" with gun to come save you, right? What about the military? Good guy with guns? Like I don't know how people can disconnect the two. When someone is shooting up a mall or school what do they do...they call presumably, the good guy with a gun to come save the day. I don't know man...
Based on this recounting of events I would say that he may end up doing some time as long as the video evidence backs it up.
He won't do any time based on the charges the DA is presenting (maybe possession). No one is going to convict for first degree with this:
McGinnis said he did not hear Rosenbaum and Rittenhouse exchange any words, and said Rosenbaum was trying to get Rittenhouse’s gun, prosecutors said.
Huber has a skateboard in his right hand and appears to be reaching for his gun with his left as the skateboard makes contact with Rittenhouse’s left shoulder, prosecutors said.
Huber looks to be trying to pull the gun away from Rittenhouse, and Rittenhouse rolls to his left side, prosecutors said. The gun is then pointed at Huber’s body as Rittenhouse fires one round, prosecutors said.
Grosskreutz appeared to have a handgun in his right hand when he was shot, prosecutors said.
+ the video evidence.
Manslaughter at best, but the DA is in a rock and a hard place. Charge to the crimes and he will get pilloried, go for the throat with the first degree stuff he/she likely knows has no chance of sticking and deal with the fall out 8 months from now or whatever. Pure politics.
Kinda lays bare the good guy with a gun theology doesn't it.
I don't know, would you call the cops if you were taken hostage, robbed at gun point, or a myriad of instances of bodily harm? Substitute cop with whatever institution or person you think is more reputable. You still expect "good guy" with gun to come save you, right? What about the military? Good guy with guns? Like I don't know how people can disconnect the two. When someone is shooting up a mall or school what do they do...they call presumably, the good guy with a gun to come save the day. I don't know man...
"Good guy with a gun" refers to an armed civilian, like this dumbfuck kid who just murdered two people.
See I was actually referring to the third guy that received minor injuries. For all he knew this guy on the ground just shot 2 people.
On August 28 2020 14:17 reborn8u2 wrote: To clarify some things about this incident, the person with the rifle is knocked (edit: it appears he trips in other videos) to the ground, then kicked in the head (kicking a person in the head while they are on the ground is considered a deadly assault in many places in the U.S.), then hit on the head with a skateboard (also considered deadly assault in most places), he shoots the person with the skateboard (this person dies), then a 3rd person runs up to him with a pistol in his hand, the person with the rifle shoots the person with the pistol in the arm. All of this occurs in 5 seconds.
If we match this to the written account linked earlier , that footage appears to be from after he had shot the first victim five times and killed him. After that first murder he started running and people were chasing him.
Anyway I guess the facts will come out in due course I am just really on edge tonight and posting when I shouldn't. The constant killings and the hard-line law and order response from Republicans has really cast a dark pall. Just waiting for Trump and his party to hail this kid as a hero.
On August 28 2020 14:55 Trainrunnef wrote: See I was actually referring to the third guy that received minor injuries. For all he knew this guy on the ground just shot 2 people.
On August 28 2020 14:17 reborn8u2 wrote: To clarify some things about this incident, the person with the rifle is knocked (edit: it appears he trips in other videos) to the ground, then kicked in the head (kicking a person in the head while they are on the ground is considered a deadly assault in many places in the U.S.), then hit on the head with a skateboard (also considered deadly assault in most places), he shoots the person with the skateboard (this person dies), then a 3rd person runs up to him with a pistol in his hand, the person with the rifle shoots the person with the pistol in the arm. All of this occurs in 5 seconds.
To clarify some things about this post since you couldn't be bothered to read the link that I posted. I'll summarize the timeline.
Kid with AR gets into verbal altercation of unknown origin (unknown to me at this time) with protester. Kid with AR shoots said protester (exact reason isn't known or on video that I have seen), flees the scene of crime. Others witness this and chase after kid. That's when the video you posted picks up. He wasn't JUST an innocent good guy defending himself from "deadly assault in many places". If that is what you were attempting to imply.
But the biggest issue for me that apparently isn't even being discussed is wtf were the cops doing that they let this kid go despite being told by the crowd what just happened. That's what I can't even begin to reconcile.
Considering quite the level of sustained nature of the protests and the sheer amount of interactions there’s been a pretty damn low number of lethal interactions, which is something to be thankful for.
It’s a very politically charged time obviously, if actual looting were to occur in one’s community in such circumstances I’m pretty OK with citizens with guns playing watchmen.
I’ve never thought it was a particularly bright idea to have civilians with guns go out of their way to travel and counter-protest while ostentatiously wielding firearms, especially ones that are largely peaceful. Consciously or unconsciously cultivating via rhetoric and encouraging people to do such a thing is socially irresponsible in this climate.
Despite some rushing to judgement on this guy’s intent, I reckon he was merely some impressionable kid trying to help in his mind in response to all this talk of law and order and the Commies taking over or whatever. Got in over his head into a situation he couldn’t control rather than actively going out with the thought of shooting someone that night.
As per usual we’re getting the nice one-two punch from talking heads that pushed the idea that civilisation and law and order were breaking down to chase ratings now acting totally surprised that people got shot by somebody concerned with that.
On August 28 2020 14:17 reborn8u2 wrote: To clarify some things about this incident, the person with the rifle is knocked (edit: it appears he trips in other videos) to the ground, then kicked in the head (kicking a person in the head while they are on the ground is considered a deadly assault in many places in the U.S.), then hit on the head with a skateboard (also considered deadly assault in most places), he shoots the person with the skateboard (this person dies), then a 3rd person runs up to him with a pistol in his hand, the person with the rifle shoots the person with the pistol in the arm. All of this occurs in 5 seconds.
To clarify some things about this post since you couldn't be bothered to read the link that I posted. I'll summarize the timeline.
Kid with AR gets into verbal altercation of unknown origin (unknown to me at this time) with protester. Kid with AR shoots said protester (exact reason isn't known or on video that I have seen), flees the scene of crime. Others witness this and chase after kid. That's when the video you posted picks up. He wasn't JUST an innocent good guy defending himself from "deadly assault in many places". If that is what you were attempting to imply.
But the biggest issue for me that apparently isn't even being discussed is wtf were the cops doing that they let this kid go despite being told by the crowd what just happened. That's what I can't even begin to reconcile.
I literally quoted you the relevant bits of the article you linked with eye witness testimony and yet you still omit relevant details. Amazing. You should work for Fox or CNN.
Disregard the click-baity headline, but how dumb are these people to go after the one Senate Republican that's ostensibly "on their side". Just goes to show these people have no clue what they're doing.
On August 28 2020 16:44 Wegandi wrote: Disregard the click-baity headline, but how dumb are these people to go after the one Senate Republican that's ostensibly "on their side". Just goes to show these people have no clue what they're doing.
Regrettable optics, granted I didn’t know he’d tabled that and I keep a sharper eye on these things than most people. Plus he’s not exactly great on a lot of other issues that I presume these protestors would tend to align together on.
On August 28 2020 14:17 reborn8u2 wrote: To clarify some things about this incident, the person with the rifle is knocked (edit: it appears he trips in other videos) to the ground, then kicked in the head (kicking a person in the head while they are on the ground is considered a deadly assault in many places in the U.S.), then hit on the head with a skateboard (also considered deadly assault in most places), he shoots the person with the skateboard (this person dies), then a 3rd person runs up to him with a pistol in his hand, the person with the rifle shoots the person with the pistol in the arm. All of this occurs in 5 seconds.
To clarify some things about this post since you couldn't be bothered to read the link that I posted. I'll summarize the timeline.
Kid with AR gets into verbal altercation of unknown origin (unknown to me at this time) with protester. Kid with AR shoots said protester (exact reason isn't known or on video that I have seen), flees the scene of crime. Others witness this and chase after kid. That's when the video you posted picks up. He wasn't JUST an innocent good guy defending himself from "deadly assault in many places". If that is what you were attempting to imply.
But the biggest issue for me that apparently isn't even being discussed is wtf were the cops doing that they let this kid go despite being told by the crowd what just happened. That's what I can't even begin to reconcile.
I'm pretty sure its exactly what you might think.
They're far more on this murderer's side than the protestors. Makes sense if you think about, who do they have more in common with, the psychotic kid with a gun or the protestors?
For those who have not seen it:trumps acceptance speech.
No matter if you hate or love trump,i think it was a strong and well balanced speech that could win over many floating voters in the middle. He did touch upon many different subjects giving each about an equal amount of time. Not to polarizing nor going all in on law and order. Even his attacks on biden where rather mild in comparison to the usual things and they where not dominating the speech. Optimistic and apealing to american partiotism,something that always works well in the usa.
Biden and the democrats i think face an uphill struggle,with trump beeing the favorite to win at this moment. The democrats and the leftwing in the usa,they still need to find the right aproach. The current aproach,justified or not,i think wont lead to succes in november.
On August 28 2020 16:44 Wegandi wrote: Disregard the click-baity headline, but how dumb are these people to go after the one Senate Republican that's ostensibly "on their side". Just goes to show these people have no clue what they're doing.
Regrettable optics, granted I didn’t know he’d tabled that and I keep a sharper eye on these things than most people. Plus he’s not exactly great on a lot of other issues that I presume these protestors would tend to align together on.
So you're telling me this isn't about Black Lives, this is about socialist drivel? Color me surprised.
By Trump standards it doesn’t seem too bad, still the usual bullshit of course. The spin needed to frame his administration’s Covid response as good could run a hard drive, and Biden doesn’t want to defund the police. Indeed, the more left leaning posters here have been critical of him for specifically that reason.
On August 28 2020 16:44 Wegandi wrote: Disregard the click-baity headline, but how dumb are these people to go after the one Senate Republican that's ostensibly "on their side". Just goes to show these people have no clue what they're doing.
Regrettable optics, granted I didn’t know he’d tabled that and I keep a sharper eye on these things than most people. Plus he’s not exactly great on a lot of other issues that I presume these protestors would tend to align together on.
So you're telling me this isn't about Black Lives, this is about socialist drivel? Color me surprised.
There are more leftists and left-wing liberterians than right-wing liberterians out in the streets protesting police brutality and systemic racism? Colour me suprised.
I haven't listened to the speech (and no intent to listen to Trump ramble) but if a speech from Trump can convince a "floating voter" that voter wasn't remotely in the middle to begin with.
Even ignoring all the shit from the past 4 years, his Covid response alone should, in a sane world, make him completely unelectable. No pretty words and empty promises should change that.
On August 28 2020 14:17 reborn8u2 wrote: To clarify some things about this incident, the person with the rifle is knocked (edit: it appears he trips in other videos) to the ground, then kicked in the head (kicking a person in the head while they are on the ground is considered a deadly assault in many places in the U.S.), then hit on the head with a skateboard (also considered deadly assault in most places), he shoots the person with the skateboard (this person dies), then a 3rd person runs up to him with a pistol in his hand, the person with the rifle shoots the person with the pistol in the arm. All of this occurs in 5 seconds.
To clarify some things about this post since you couldn't be bothered to read the link that I posted. I'll summarize the timeline.
Kid with AR gets into verbal altercation of unknown origin (unknown to me at this time) with protester. Kid with AR shoots said protester (exact reason isn't known or on video that I have seen), flees the scene of crime. Others witness this and chase after kid. That's when the video you posted picks up. He wasn't JUST an innocent good guy defending himself from "deadly assault in many places". If that is what you were attempting to imply.
But the biggest issue for me that apparently isn't even being discussed is wtf were the cops doing that they let this kid go despite being told by the crowd what just happened. That's what I can't even begin to reconcile.
I literally quoted you the relevant bits of the article you linked with eye witness testimony and yet you still omit relevant details. Amazing. You should work for Fox or CNN.
if you quoted the "relevant bits" of the article I posted, why did you completely ignore the first two lines in my summary and only talk about what happens in the video? How am i the one that omitted relevent details and not you, and jsut for clarification what details in your mind did I omit? If it is what happened in the video i didn't think it needed to be repeated since i quoted your summary of the video and the link to the video itself....
On August 28 2020 16:04 Wombat_NornIron wrote: Considering quite the level of sustained nature of the protests and the sheer amount of interactions there’s been a pretty damn low number of lethal interactions, which is something to be thankful for.
It’s a very politically charged time obviously, if actual looting were to occur in one’s community in such circumstances I’m pretty OK with citizens with guns playing watchmen.
I’ve never thought it was a particularly bright idea to have civilians with guns go out of their way to travel and counter-protest while ostentatiously wielding firearms, especially ones that are largely peaceful. Consciously or unconsciously cultivating via rhetoric and encouraging people to do such a thing is socially irresponsible in this climate.
Despite some rushing to judgement on this guy’s intent, I reckon he was merely some impressionable kid trying to help in his mind in response to all this talk of law and order and the Commies taking over or whatever. Got in over his head into a situation he couldn’t control rather than actively going out with the thought of shooting someone that night.
As per usual we’re getting the nice one-two punch from talking heads that pushed the idea that civilisation and law and order were breaking down to chase ratings now acting totally surprised that people got shot by somebody concerned with that.
Im not quite sure how you reconcile these two sentiments. On one hand you're saying its generally ok for "citizens with guns" to "play watchmen", but on the other hand you say that its not a good idea for for people to go out and counter protest with weapons. It seems like a very blurry line between counter protesting and playing watchmen no?
EPT
