EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2580
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28873 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Broetchenholer
Germany1964 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States24154 Posts
in no way did I apologize for Harris being a cop. I stated she is also a lawyer that shouldn't have that accomplishment undermined That's not just apologism, it's whitewashing. Her "accomplishments" were literally doing the paperwork for the cops after they did the dirty work and refusing to prosecute them. I'd also say that I could discuss the political machinations of capitalism and what that feeds into our system, both positive and negative, but it gets nowhere with you because you don't care to hear any differing opinions Honestly I really wish you could. I don't mind different opinions, even ones very different than mine. What I don't have interest in is discussing it with people that refuse to read (my posts or related texts) and insist their feelings, anti-GH smarm, and blind hope is a substantive contribution.You and JimmiC don't mind disagreeing, which I don't mind, it's just when I scratch the surface of those disagreements it's abundantly clear how vapid they are. It's not that I don't have criticisms of China's treatment of Uighur people, but I have the self-awareness to realize how ridiculous it is for my taxes to be funding genocide in Palestine and arming a theocratic dictatorship that still beheads people and bombs school buses full of kids with my governments help and use the US politics thread to shit on China with hyperbolic bs. Same thing in Venezuela where my government has been trying to assassinate their leaders for decades. Meanwhile Democratic Senator Chris Murphy (on the committee for foreign relations) openly admits "we tried to organize a kind of coup" there as well. But I know someone like JimmiC isn't going to reconcile that in any meaningful way. Just as I know you're not going to incorporate my critique on the lack of cognitive dissonance stirred by your recognition of the problematic nature of Sadists posts but not Harris' "accomplishments". It's disappointing. Because there's a shit ton of room for you guys to improve your arguments without agreeing with me but you guys largely subscribe to standard liberal hegemonic beliefs and just regurgitate standard talking points without engaging in any deeper analysis of their origins or accuracy in describing our material conditions. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5843 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States24154 Posts
On August 27 2020 23:33 maybenexttime wrote: What genocide in Palestine? Do you even know what a genocide is? I know there's absolutely no possible coherent reasoning for referring to an Uighur genocide but refusing to identify Israel's treatment of Palestinians as such. If we want to be lazy we can at minimum agree to classify them both as either genocide or not together. Now only one has the full-throated support of the US government and was part of the RNC convention location theater though (so an appropriate topic for this thread). | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On August 27 2020 21:41 GreenHorizons wrote: I'm sure there's some strategy you're proposing that hasn't consistently failed for the last several decades (or centuries)? You're not entirely wrong about revolution being unnecessary though. Because it's basically only the threat of society completely collapsing that's ever moved this ball forward the entire history of the US. The current crop has not done anything to indicate they are going to pull back from the brink though and so far seem willing to push through the pandemic, depression, and uprising without caving to the pressure. Democrats nominating a cop and friend of segregationists given the whole racist cop situation is sorta emblematic of that. What happened to these pigs that "fucked up"? The white kid was arrested and charged. Did he resist arrest or no? Its not the same thing. The kid is likely a piece of shit and should be under the jail. My point about Breonna Taylor is that mistakes are made every day. Its Tragic that it happened. Do you honestly believe that she was purposefully murdered or do you think the cop who shot her made a mistake or used poor judgement? Btw based on what I understand of the situation I dont have a huge problem with her BF firing at police working under the assumption he didnt know they were police. Lastly, accidental deaths, police shooting or otherwise, arent always charged/prosecuted. As a society we give various government agencies the benefit of the doubt that they are acting in good faith. If we want to stop doing that then fine. We can be entirely results based and thats ok. There will be various down stream affects but well have to see what happens. I honestly dont think many people have given thought to how they would react in certain situations. Im not a police apologist by any means and I am onboard with reassessing or reallocating resources or what calls police respond to. They arent perfect all knowing beings. Like anything theres a "fog of war" where you are making snap, life altering judgements on incomplete information and/or assumptions. You also need to protect yourselves and others. There are many bad actors out there but we cant function as a society if we assume everyone is acting in bad faith. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5843 Posts
On August 27 2020 23:43 GreenHorizons wrote: I know there's absolutely no possible coherent reasoning for referring to an Uighur genocide but refusing to identify Israel's treatment of Palestinians as such. If we want to be lazy we can at minimum agree to classify them both as either genocide or not together. Now only one has the full-throated support of the US government and was part of the RNC convention location theater though (so an appropriate topic for this thread). They're different. The Chinese are using forced sterilization of Uyghur women (reports are claiming that hundreds of thousands of women may have been subjected to it), abortions etc. Over a million Uyghurs put in concentration camps. The government is also trying to extinguish their culture in many ways. What Israel's doing with the settlements is a form of ethnic cleansing, but it's hardly genocidal. The main reason why Palestine is in such a sad state is because of the corrupt and incompetent people in power, not because of Israel. Israel tried to resolve the issue for many decades. Palestine refused to accept terms which were quite reasonable. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9956 Posts
On August 28 2020 00:22 JimmiC wrote: You do know that the Uighur's are being sent to "re-education camps" where they often never come back and that the all powerful Chinese government is forcefully sterilizing them right? That the far right of Israel who barely won the last election is taking sacred and agreed upon land is certainly awful and that Trump is supporting the corrupt Netenyahu is also terrible. But it is not in the same ball park as what is happening in China to its own citizens. You do realise that millions of Palestinians have lived their entire lives in an open air prison, right? Its not just taking land. Palestinians are deprived of basic freedoms for their entire lives with no hope of change. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24154 Posts
I also wonder if people have seen a US prison (or the rubble where some Palestinian's home used to be) lately when they look at the conditions afforded Uyghurs in so called concentration camps facilitating genocide. But the biggest red flag has got to be how invested the right wing is in selling the idea that they give a damn about Muslims, let alone Muslims that aren't even US citizens or able to act as a vassal oil/resource regime. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
If you watch the video, even if he were going for a knife IN his car, there was no reason to shoot him. The cop grabs him to hold him still so he could shoot him 7 times. Grabbing him to throw him to the ground would be well, not QUITE as easy, but not that much harder than holding him to immobilize. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9956 Posts
On August 28 2020 00:37 JimmiC wrote: The Palestinian vs Israel thing is super complicated, one that most of the free world had a large hand it fucking right up. You can not ignore the Holocaust, that the Jews are still the most hated group and enemy of conspiracy theories on both sides. There are countries (and posters in this thread) that want to wipe them off the map. The Chinese Government is committing genocide and it is not at all complicated. I'm not trying to minimize the plight of the Palestinians, just that the two situations are from equal. I'm not really interested in the political context surrounding the issues here, rather the experience of Uighurs compared to that of Palestinians. I would argue its much worse for the Palestinians. At least the Uighurs had some chance at living a normal life for a while. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On August 28 2020 00:44 Nevuk wrote: The only requirement for a cop to get away with murder is that they be willing to testify under oath that they felt afraid, in the US. This is a principle known as qualified immunity - the idea being that a person can't be charged for executing their job's duties (it applies to other professions though it's nowhere near as prevalant). It's slowly started having some pushback from a few courts due to just how rampant the abuse is, and even Danglars thinks it has gone way too far (I think he wanted to eliminate it instead of other police reforms). If you watch the video, even if he were going for a knife IN his car, there was no reason to shoot him. The cop grabs him to hold him still so he could shoot him 7 times. Grabbing him to throw him to the ground would be well, not QUITE as easy, but not that much harder than holding him to immobilize. It wasnt a knife in his car it was allegedly a knife in his hand already as he went to his car. The theory is he could have had a gun in uis car, used his vehicle as a weapon, or escaped and harmed someone. I say allegedly because its hard to find a reputible source on it. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24154 Posts
On August 28 2020 00:54 Sadist wrote: It wasnt a knife in his car it was allegedly a knife in his hand already as he went to his car. The theory is he could have had a gun in uis car, used his vehicle as a weapon, or escaped and harmed someone. I say allegedly because its hard to find a reputible source on it. Have you considered that it is because it is propaganda meant to obfuscate what happened and divert from the systemic problems evident regardless of whether he had a knife or gun (that police definitely would have shown pictures of by now if he did)? At minimum you'd have gotten "a knife was recovered on scene" even if the cop planted it as they are known to do. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1964 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On August 28 2020 00:54 Sadist wrote: It wasnt a knife in his car it was allegedly a knife in his hand already as he went to his car. The theory is he could have had a gun in uis car, used his vehicle as a weapon, or escaped and harmed someone. I say allegedly because its hard to find a reputible source on it. What I've read is that cops said that they thought he had one (which they ALWAYS claim, whether it's true or not - the subject had a weapon if they have anything in their hand, even a bottle of water or a cellphone). Witnesses echo that the cops told him to drop the knife, but witnesses observed no knife. They found a knife in his car, but that doesn't really mean much - the actual car was a much better weapon, and at this point this pd's credibility is so bad I'm not sure I can be assured that they didn't plant it to back up their story. This is a pd that doesn't have bodycams, which is a HUGE red flag to me. Here's a reputable source on the knife issue: https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/kenosha-police-officer-who-shot-jacob-blake-in-the-back-seven-times-has-been-identified/ Also come on at the people claiming that there was no disparity on how the cops here treated the white suspect. They heard gunshots, people shouted he killed someone and... the cops asked him for directions and waved him on. Seriously. He spent hours walking around in front of them fully armed, and they gave him water. There's video evidence of all of this. Ann Coulter also wants him to be president (not that she should be taken seriously by anyone, but she is by a few). Via Vice: While it’s not immediately clear why Rittenhouse, a former police cadet, was at the protest, his social media indicates an affiliation with “Back the Blue,” a pro-police movement. In recent months, pro-cop vigilantes have been showing up heavily armed at protests across the country to defend public property, often warmly received by local law enforcement. Police interacted with the alleged gunman at various locations in Kenosha throughout the night. In one video, Rittenhouse is seen chatting with police who gave him a bottle of water and thanked him for being there. [...] The apparent shooter, meanwhile, was seen on video walking away from the scene — his AR-style rifle clearly visible, his hands above his head. But Kenosha police who were responding to the reports of gunfire showed no interest in arresting or even questioning the man. Instead, they asked him for directions. “Is someone injured, straight ahead?” an officer asks him via loudspeaker. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xg8pxj/a-17-year-old-aspiring-cop-has-been-charged-with-murder-in-kenosha | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On August 28 2020 00:34 GreenHorizons wrote: When people use the "Million Uyghurs put in concentration camp" I always wonder whether it's supposed to be the same million from a couple years ago or those ones are all dead in some mass graves somewhere and it's a new million or what? I also wonder if people have seen a US prison (or the rubble where some Palestinian's home used to be) lately when they look at the conditions afforded Uyghurs in so called concentration camps facilitating genocide. But the biggest red flag has got to be how invested the right wing is in selling the idea that they give a damn about Muslims, let alone Muslims that aren't even US citizens or able to act as a vassal oil/resource regime. I don't know why you are taking this position. What the Chinese are doing is very bad. Orders of magnitude worse than anything the US government is doing to its citizens. On August 27 2020 22:09 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Your last few posts show how much of a cop apologist you are and how misinformed/callous you are about people of color and their lives. The more you post, the more you come across as a complete and utter moron. If your first thought is "wait, what's all the details of both situations" when video evidence is right there for you, then you're lost and will remain so. Commenting on this topic is probably not something you should do going forward. The naive assumption that "video evidence" is transparent and immediately available for everyone's judgment is becoming a serious problem. People should be thinking "wait, what's the total context here." But it must be consistently applied. It can become evil when video evidence that confirms your prejudice is seen as transparent and video evidence that challenges your prejudice is seen as opaque, requiring a further "debunking." | ||
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