EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2578
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
9077 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28929 Posts
Frankly I think this is mostly just a misunderstanding. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On August 26 2020 20:48 pmh wrote: It’s not your fault if you haven’t been lurking this thread forever but the wing that has been most critical of police activity is also generally the same that are critical of economic disparities and has already drawn a direct link between those phenomena Yes i can see this. And the police can be a huge issue far bigger then economic issues i can see that as well. Sometimes a head to head confrontation is the only way to go to change things and make things better. I dont think that aproach will work in the usa but maybe it will. I’m unsure, we’ll see how it develops. Previous pragmatism doesn’t exactly seem to have been effective in all sorts of areas. Maybe forcing it into a binary and cutting out a middle ground sees more people ultimately coming on to the ‘right’ side in terms of reform or restructuring. In terms of wider platforms having a near binary to choose from is something I’d view quite negatively, on singular issues or policies I think the opposite can be true. | ||
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On August 27 2020 05:01 IgnE wrote: Are all arrests illegitimate? Any arrest done for the sake of retribution is fundamentally unethical. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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pmh
1416 Posts
As such i have decided to walk away from it and not post anything related to that subject on this thread ever again. Instead will stick with commenting on the upcoming elections in general (while avoiding the racism subject in that aspect as well). Also i truly wish everyone the best in their fight for a more inclusive and equal society and i genuinly do hope they succeed no matter what route they chose to go. My appologies to anyone who might have feel offended,it never ever was my intention. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
9077 Posts
On August 27 2020 06:30 pmh wrote: I have come to realize my contributions in the discussion about racism in the usa are not helpfull in any way and in some ways even amplify the polarization and mutual misunderstanding despite my honest and sincere intentions. As such i have decided to walk away from it and not post anything related to that subject on this thread ever again. Instead will stick with commenting on the upcoming elections in general (while avoiding the racism subject in that aspect as well). Also i truly wish everyone the best in their fight for a more inclusive and equal society and i genuinly do hope they succeed no matter what route they chose to go. My appologies to anyone who might have feel offended,it never ever was my intention. Don't you dare walk away. People willing to discuss and learn is sorely what is needed in these days. To remain silent and to give in to GH and his bullying does not advance the cause to get to the root of the issue. I am 100% sure no one here objects to your contributions. So, on behalf of this singular black voice, continue to post and continue to question. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On August 27 2020 06:30 pmh wrote: I have come to realize my contributions in the discussion about racism in the usa are not helpfull in any way and in some ways even amplify the polarization and mutual misunderstanding despite my honest and sincere intentions. As such i have decided to walk away from it and not post anything related to that subject on this thread ever again. Instead will stick with commenting on the upcoming elections in general (while avoiding the racism subject in that aspect as well). Also i truly wish everyone the best in their fight for a more inclusive and equal society and i genuinly do hope they succeed no matter what route they chose to go. My appologies to anyone who might have feel offended,it never ever was my intention. I would largely echo what Zero said. Yes a GH reply can feel pretty hostile and rough, but hey it’s how we grow in knowledge. Perhaps you yourself will change your views on something on account of new information and perspectives, worse case scenario your own worldview remains static but you have a better understanding of what others believe and why. Win/win really. In my time off TL and in a bad place myself for various reasons I was exposed to so much errant nonsense that took quite a while to shake off. Would have been good for me to have been having the kind of discussions I now enjoy in here. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
On August 27 2020 06:01 Mohdoo wrote: Any arrest done for the sake of retribution is fundamentally unethical. What is an arrest done for the sake of retribution? Seems like it could be very narrow (personal animus on the part of the cop) or it could quite broad (punishment as retribution, as when an otherwise peaceful murderer is arrested—this won’t bring the dead person back). | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On August 27 2020 07:42 JimmiC wrote: Him having a knife would not excuse a shooting here, let alone 7 bullets. You need to in eminent danger to pull the trigger here. With guns being as common as they are, I can't imagine you could shoot some for simply carrying a weapon. If he had a knife and was fighting with police then tries to escape in his vehicle it could be argued its justified. He could have had a weapon in the car and/or used the vehicle as a weapon. That exact scenario has happened lots of times. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On August 27 2020 05:01 IgnE wrote: Are all arrests illegitimate? What arrests? In general? I’d have to say no on that, although I think the system lacks moral legitimacy on the whole. Shoplift and get caught and hey you might even get shot. Indulge in all sorts of entirely legal tax avoidance that’s cool though. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
If he had no knife it was likely not justified. I still have a hard time believing the officers would do jail time since he had been resisting arrest. Theyll argue he may have been reaching for something or they were worried hed use his car as a weapon or harm his children. I dont think this will end in a conviction. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22705 Posts
On August 27 2020 07:42 JimmiC wrote: You thinking like a Canadian, not an American.Him having a knife would not excuse a shooting here, let alone 7 bullets. You need to in eminent danger to pull the trigger here. With guns being as common as they are, I can't imagine you could shoot some for simply carrying a weapon. Outside the US having a knife won't get you killed by police unless you pose an imminent threat. In the US a cop feeling threatened (not being in actual physical threat, but merely the feeling) is enough for lethal force. A soldier patrolling the streets of an actual warzone has a higher threshold for the use of lethal force then a cop on the streets of the US. On August 27 2020 07:57 JimmiC wrote: In the US it is.That someone could eventually be a threat is not a reasonable level. . | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On August 27 2020 08:29 Gorsameth wrote: You thinking like a Canadian, not an American. Outside the US having a knife won't get you killed by police unless you pose an imminent threat. In the US a cop feeling threatened (not being in actual physical threat, but merely the feeling) is enough for lethal force. A soldier patrolling the streets of an actual warzone has a higher threshold for the use of lethal force then a cop on the streets of the US. In the US it is. I don't even think eventually be a threat is a requirement. The only requirement from what I can tell is the officer be willing to pull the trigger. That is not a particularly high bar, and then they make up whatever excuses they want and it generally gets handwaved away. The only difference is that nowadays, video footage is a lot more accessible. Even then there's examples of it being handwaved away. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
On August 27 2020 08:02 Sadist wrote: I think the knife is important because fighting with police + resisting arrest is a whole different ball game than him having no weapon. If the police knew he had a warrant, which again is not clear, that could also impact their state of mind in that situation. If he had no knife it was likely not justified. I still have a hard time believing the officers would do jail time since he had been resisting arrest. Theyll argue he may have been reaching for something or they were worried hed use his car as a weapon or harm his children. I dont think this will end in a conviction. Shooting someone who is walking away from you 7 times in the back is not justified by their holding a knife wtf. | ||
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