Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On June 23 2020 00:19 JimmiC wrote: "fake news" about Covid, protesters and riots kept all of the Trump fans away. They can try all the spin they want 6200 to a rally is just more bad news for the Trump Campaign. His team has been talking about Trumps ability to rally and generate excitement at these rally's but this did the opposite!
Its not a spin though,the rally got sabotaged by teens who did order a lot of tickets and then didnt go on purpose. There have been videos about it on social media (where they showed the ticket and then posted,well i feel sick so i dont think i can go) but they where only visable for a short time to not draw attention to their actions. I am not sure to what extend this did influence the rally but it did have an effect for sure. Has this not made the news in the usa? It was in the news in europe,not prominent and front page but you could read about it.
@below:oh i didnt knew that,well i guess it was only a very small effect then.
On June 23 2020 00:19 JimmiC wrote: "fake news" about Covid, protesters and riots kept all of the Trump fans away. They can try all the spin they want 6200 to a rally is just more bad news for the Trump Campaign. His team has been talking about Trumps ability to rally and generate excitement at these rally's but this did the opposite!
Its not a spin though,the rally got sabotaged by teens who did order a lot of tickets and then didnt go on purpose. There have been videos about it on social media but they where only visable for a short time to not draw attention to their actions. I am not sure to what extend this did influence the rally but it did have an effect for sure. Has this not made the news in the usa?
I have trouble believes over 10k people bought and payed for tickets while never planning to go, all in a massive coordinated action to have some lolz.
Sounds much more likely to me that either the campaign organiser didn't want to tell Trump the rally was going to be small/cancelled or Trump didn't want to accept it when told.
On June 23 2020 00:19 JimmiC wrote: "fake news" about Covid, protesters and riots kept all of the Trump fans away. They can try all the spin they want 6200 to a rally is just more bad news for the Trump Campaign. His team has been talking about Trumps ability to rally and generate excitement at these rally's but this did the opposite!
Its not a spin though,the rally got sabotaged by teens who did order a lot of tickets and then didnt go on purpose. There have been videos about it on social media but they where only visable for a short time to not draw attention to their actions. I am not sure to what extend this did influence the rally but it did have an effect for sure. Has this not made the news in the usa?
I have trouble believes over 10k people bought and payed for tickets while never planning to go, all in a massive coordinated action to have some lolz.
Sounds much more likely to me that either the campaign organiser didn't want to tell Trump the rally was going to be small/cancelled or Trump didn't want to accept it when told.
That's not so strange since the tickets were free and unlimited. So nothing stop any real trump supporters getting one as well. Except perhaps that they got the impression that they had to arrive early to get a seat and that it would get cramped.
On June 23 2020 00:19 JimmiC wrote: "fake news" about Covid, protesters and riots kept all of the Trump fans away. They can try all the spin they want 6200 to a rally is just more bad news for the Trump Campaign. His team has been talking about Trumps ability to rally and generate excitement at these rally's but this did the opposite!
Its not a spin though,the rally got sabotaged by teens who did order a lot of tickets and then didnt go on purpose. There have been videos about it on social media but they where only visable for a short time to not draw attention to their actions. I am not sure to what extend this did influence the rally but it did have an effect for sure. Has this not made the news in the usa?
I have trouble believes over 10k people bought and payed for tickets while never planning to go, all in a massive coordinated action to have some lolz.
Sounds much more likely to me that either the campaign organiser didn't want to tell Trump the rally was going to be small/cancelled or Trump didn't want to accept it when told.
That's not so strange since the tickets were free and unlimited. So nothing stop any real trump supporters getting one as well. Except perhaps that they got the impression that they had to arrive early to get a seat and that it would get cramped.
Ah, ok I didn't realise they were free. yeah getting a bunch of people to sign up for free as a gag is something the internet can certainly pull off.
If Trump’s operation was competent, it wouldn’t be too hard to see that the tickets were being sold to randos. The argument for Trump’s constant rallying was to collect voter data, they would be consuming their own supply if they wanted to believe a large majority of ticket sales were legitimate with the amount of information of their voter base they should have.
Maybe if the president didn't live off the flames he constantly stokes at his rallies it wouldn't have been such a big deal in any event. That he was a sad Grand Wizard or w/e that night is his fucking problem.
New study shows that police (in light of ongoing protests and state sanctioned violence) fail to meet basic international human rights standards.
Police in America’s biggest cities are failing to meet even the most basic international human rights standards governing the use of lethal force, a new study from the University of Chicago has found.
Researchers in the university’s law school put the lethal use-of-force policies of police in the 20 largest US cities under the microscope. They found not a single police department was operating under guidelines that are compliant with the minimum standards laid out under international human rights laws.
The Chicago study underlines how far policing in America is adrift from international norms, making the US a lonely outlier on the world stage. Across Europe, policing policies are much more closely aligned with human rights directives.
In an interview with the Guardian this week, Agnès Callamard, the UN monitor on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions, said she was “horrified because we are watching people dying in public at the hands of those who are supposed to protect us.” Callamard’s comments came as the UN human rights council in Geneva held an urgent debate on racism and police conduct in the US.
I think most of this thread knows that Trump will use the excesses of the violent protests to justify his re-election. After all, aren't his enemies just a little bit *soft* on the idea of violence against statues and property, considering there is real deserved anger about real injustice? That's some of the backdrop to my current thinking. Biden hasn't embraced "defund the police," to his establishment credit, but his allies are not swift to decry the damage to businesses already wracked by coronavirus closure.
This is an artifact created in 1852 by Clark Mills. The first bronze-cast statue in the US and the first equestrian statue in US history. It's made of a former president responsible for both the Native American forced march called the Trail of Tears and defending America from the British and Indians during the War of 1812. Similarly, statues of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ulysses S Grant, Abolitionist Matthias Baldwin, Junipero Serra, and Theodore Roosevelt have been defaced or taken down.
If you're hearing echoes of Trump saying
This week it's Robert E. Lee. I noticed that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week and is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? [...]
[Re: Thomas Jefferson]Are we going to take down his statue. He was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? It is fine. You are changing history and culture.
back in 2017, go to the front of the class. I saw echoes of that on the confederate statue debate, and people told me slippery slope fallacy and denied any comparisons to more "virtuous" individuals that might be next. Looking at Trump's quote, it was remarkably prescient, especially for such an unthinking individual.
It shouldn't take some South Philly Italians to make the case for Christopher Columbus in the language of the working man, while the more educated-sounding interlocutor "educates" him about his evils. Compare and contrast that to the scene of young, woke white women spitting in the face of the police (particularly a black police officer) sent in time to stop Andrew Jackson suffering the same fate as statues of earlier presidents + Show Spoiler +
It's not a good look. It doesn't show a lot of the side of "it's valuable so put it in a museum instead," in this no-vote no-nuance take on their history.
I wager that the left and center-left have precious little time to make it clear that the violence against statues has gone too far in order to show they're sufficiently opposed to mobs tearing down stuff in a fervor. The voices that I was watching for were incensed that Trump did a dumb photo op in front of St John's Church, but conjured up little outrage that fires were started inside and around the church and the front was tagged. It was built in 1816, by the way. The means of dispersal of protesters was the only worthy news there. Look forward to later on the campaign trail:Trump points out that these localities, like rapes and shootings occurring inside East Seattle's "Autonomous Zone"/CHOP, have had Democratic mayors for decades. He says that the left that's called for a recasting of America's history in the 1619 project "true founding," has turned more towards erasure of history in a fit of rage. He says the opposition to statues was part of the same project against Confederate general statues and named bases, but now that it's turned to Washington, Jefferson, Roosevelt, and Grant, it's better seen as opposition to America, not the legacy of the Confederates. That's a powerful argument on the cultural side of politics, if you ask me. Count me in the camp that says Democrats have gone way too soft on remembering America's history--not only for the bad parts of it.+ Show Spoiler +
But, hey, look, Trump tweeted something dumb again! Read my 2,000 word piece about how he's a proto-fascist and is addicted to crowd size, what a loser
It shouldn't take some South Philly Italians to make the case for Christopher Columbus in the language of the working man, while the more educated-sounding interlocutor "educates" him about his evils.
By this you mean dipshits assaulting a journalist and calling Indigenous peoples "savages" in response to being asked thier thoughts about Columbus' practice of cutting their hands off if they didn't bring him enough gold?
It shouldn't take some South Philly Italians to make the case for Christopher Columbus in the language of the working man, while the more educated-sounding interlocutor "educates" him about his evils.
By this you mean dipshits assaulting a journalist and calling Indigenous peoples "savages" in response to being asked thier thoughts about Columbus' practice of cutting their hands off if they didn't bring him enough gold?
Gross.
Yeah I feel like that video put the counter protesters in a very, very bad light and highlighted how damaging these statues really are. By glorifying genocide, you naturally allow people to assume the genocide was a positive thing, that the people being killed were perhaps not people at all. These people did a great job at highlighting why it is imperative that these statues are removed ASAP. The cultural damage they do is observable.
lionizing the ignorance of people who have founded their identities on demonstrably false, white-washed history is part and parcel with the fascist project. That’s literally what Blood and Soil was all about as a concept, maybe Danglars is just doing his best Darrè impression.
On June 24 2020 03:00 Danglars wrote: I think most of this thread knows that Trump will use the excesses of the violent protests to justify his re-election. After all, aren't his enemies just a little bit *soft* on the idea of violence against statues and property, considering there is real deserved anger about real injustice? That's some of the backdrop to my current thinking. Biden hasn't embraced "defund the police," to his establishment credit, but his allies are not swift to decry the damage to businesses already wracked by coronavirus closure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVELtGOaqxY This is an artifact created in 1852 by Clark Mills. The first bronze-cast statue in the US and the first equestrian statue in US history. It's made of a former president responsible for both the Native American forced march called the Trail of Tears and defending America from the British and Indians during the War of 1812. Similarly, statues of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ulysses S Grant, Abolitionist Matthias Baldwin, Junipero Serra, and Theodore Roosevelt have been defaced or taken down.
If you're hearing echoes of Trump saying
This week it's Robert E. Lee. I noticed that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week and is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? [...]
[Re: Thomas Jefferson]Are we going to take down his statue. He was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? It is fine. You are changing history and culture.
back in 2017, go to the front of the class. I saw echoes of that on the confederate statue debate, and people told me slippery slope fallacy and denied any comparisons to more "virtuous" individuals that might be next. Looking at Trump's quote, it was remarkably prescient, especially for such an unthinking individual.
https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1271970452836159490 It shouldn't take some South Philly Italians to make the case for Christopher Columbus in the language of the working man, while the more educated-sounding interlocutor "educates" him about his evils. Compare and contrast that to the scene of young, woke white women spitting in the face of the police (particularly a black police officer) sent in time to stop Andrew Jackson suffering the same fate as statues of earlier presidents + Show Spoiler +
It's not a good look. It doesn't show a lot of the side of "it's valuable so put it in a museum instead," in this no-vote no-nuance take on their history.
I wager that the left and center-left have precious little time to make it clear that the violence against statues has gone too far in order to show they're sufficiently opposed to mobs tearing down stuff in a fervor. The voices that I was watching for were incensed that Trump did a dumb photo op in front of St John's Church, but conjured up little outrage that fires were started inside and around the church and the front was tagged. It was built in 1816, by the way. The means of dispersal of protesters was the only worthy news there. Look forward to later on the campaign trail:Trump points out that these localities, like rapes and shootings occurring inside East Seattle's "Autonomous Zone"/CHOP, have had Democratic mayors for decades. He says that the left that's called for a recasting of America's history in the 1619 project "true founding," has turned more towards erasure of history in a fit of rage. He says the opposition to statues was part of the same project against Confederate general statues and named bases, but now that it's turned to Washington, Jefferson, Roosevelt, and Grant, it's better seen as opposition to America, not the legacy of the Confederates. That's a powerful argument on the cultural side of politics, if you ask me. Count me in the camp that says Democrats have gone way too soft on remembering America's history--not only for the bad parts of it.+ Show Spoiler +
But, hey, look, Trump tweeted something dumb again! Read my 2,000 word piece about how he's a proto-fascist and is addicted to crowd size, what a loser
I stopped reading your concern trolling pwn the libs post when you called them "Indian's". Indian's are from India and to my recollection never attacked Murica.
You could say that First nation's people tried to defend their land against Murica and were defeated and often slaughtered, but I'm not sure that get's to what ever point you think you are making.
When trying to pretend to be sensible it would help if you didn't use racist terms for groups of people.
Perhaps if that statue is so important to history it should be a museum and it can have a plaque saying all the wonderful things about the statue and all the awful things the man in the statue did!
It is nice that Danglar's is also no longer going with dog whistle approach to racism and just putting it right out their like his fearful leader. You continue to win the award for the worst person on the message boards! Congrats I guess.
It's a difference in terminology between countries. While the term Indian is considered outdated and possibly offensive in Canada, it has common usage in America. https://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/terminology/
On June 24 2020 03:00 Danglars wrote: I think most of this thread knows that Trump will use the excesses of the violent protests to justify his re-election. After all, aren't his enemies just a little bit *soft* on the idea of violence against statues and property, considering there is real deserved anger about real injustice? That's some of the backdrop to my current thinking. Biden hasn't embraced "defund the police," to his establishment credit, but his allies are not swift to decry the damage to businesses already wracked by coronavirus closure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVELtGOaqxY This is an artifact created in 1852 by Clark Mills. The first bronze-cast statue in the US and the first equestrian statue in US history. It's made of a former president responsible for both the Native American forced march called the Trail of Tears and defending America from the British and Indians during the War of 1812. Similarly, statues of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ulysses S Grant, Abolitionist Matthias Baldwin, Junipero Serra, and Theodore Roosevelt have been defaced or taken down.
If you're hearing echoes of Trump saying
This week it's Robert E. Lee. I noticed that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week and is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? [...]
[Re: Thomas Jefferson]Are we going to take down his statue. He was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? It is fine. You are changing history and culture.
back in 2017, go to the front of the class. I saw echoes of that on the confederate statue debate, and people told me slippery slope fallacy and denied any comparisons to more "virtuous" individuals that might be next. Looking at Trump's quote, it was remarkably prescient, especially for such an unthinking individual.
https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1271970452836159490 It shouldn't take some South Philly Italians to make the case for Christopher Columbus in the language of the working man, while the more educated-sounding interlocutor "educates" him about his evils. Compare and contrast that to the scene of young, woke white women spitting in the face of the police (particularly a black police officer) sent in time to stop Andrew Jackson suffering the same fate as statues of earlier presidents + Show Spoiler +
It's not a good look. It doesn't show a lot of the side of "it's valuable so put it in a museum instead," in this no-vote no-nuance take on their history.
I wager that the left and center-left have precious little time to make it clear that the violence against statues has gone too far in order to show they're sufficiently opposed to mobs tearing down stuff in a fervor. The voices that I was watching for were incensed that Trump did a dumb photo op in front of St John's Church, but conjured up little outrage that fires were started inside and around the church and the front was tagged. It was built in 1816, by the way. The means of dispersal of protesters was the only worthy news there. Look forward to later on the campaign trail:Trump points out that these localities, like rapes and shootings occurring inside East Seattle's "Autonomous Zone"/CHOP, have had Democratic mayors for decades. He says that the left that's called for a recasting of America's history in the 1619 project "true founding," has turned more towards erasure of history in a fit of rage. He says the opposition to statues was part of the same project against Confederate general statues and named bases, but now that it's turned to Washington, Jefferson, Roosevelt, and Grant, it's better seen as opposition to America, not the legacy of the Confederates. That's a powerful argument on the cultural side of politics, if you ask me. Count me in the camp that says Democrats have gone way too soft on remembering America's history--not only for the bad parts of it.+ Show Spoiler +
But, hey, look, Trump tweeted something dumb again! Read my 2,000 word piece about how he's a proto-fascist and is addicted to crowd size, what a loser
I stopped reading your concern trolling pwn the libs post when you called them "Indian's". Indian's are from India and to my recollection never attacked Murica.
You could say that First nation's people tried to defend their land against Murica and were defeated and often slaughtered, but I'm not sure that get's to what ever point you think you are making.
When trying to pretend to be sensible it would help if you didn't use racist terms for groups of people.
Perhaps if that statue is so important to history it should be a museum and it can have a plaque saying all the wonderful things about the statue and all the awful things the man in the statue did!
It is nice that Danglar's is also no longer going with dog whistle approach to racism and just putting it right out their like his fearful leader. You continue to win the award for the worst person on the message boards! Congrats I guess.
It's a difference in terminology between countries. While the term Indian is considered outdated and possibly offensive in Canada, it has common usage in America. https://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/terminology/
Indian is considered offensive in the US as well.They aren't from India.
It shouldn't take some South Philly Italians to make the case for Christopher Columbus in the language of the working man, while the more educated-sounding interlocutor "educates" him about his evils.
By this you mean dipshits assaulting a journalist and calling Indigenous peoples "savages" in response to being asked thier thoughts about Columbus' practice of cutting their hands off if they didn't bring him enough gold?
Gross.
Yeah I feel like that video put the counter protesters in a very, very bad light and highlighted how damaging these statues really are. By glorifying genocide, you naturally allow people to assume the genocide was a positive thing, that the people being killed were perhaps not people at all. These people did a great job at highlighting why it is imperative that these statues are removed ASAP. The cultural damage they do is observable.
People in the U.S have no empathy towards exterminating animal species for their own gain and fortune. Look at bees, we need them, but certain people simply don't care about WHY we need them, they just think of them as pests. I feel like those are probably the same people who don't care about genocide because some how they believe it benefits them since those very people they want to commit atrocities towards aren't people but "animals"...
They've completely reshaped how they think about themselves as humans and now they're "above all others" type shit. It's disgusting, and I call it out every time I see it. I've been threatened by who I consider a white supremacist I went to high school with. Since I called him out on his bullshit, he proceeded to threaten me in messages about "You can't block me in the streets", so I obviously had to call him a snowflake after that.
I am sorry to say, and I'm reluctant to go die on that hill, but I kind of partly agree with Danglars here.
I'm all for removing statues of confederate generals and renaming bases because, hell, those people did nothing else than betray their country in the name of a disgusting cause, but removing statues of Jefferson or even Columbus is just ludicrous.
I wrote that earlier, but statues should be an opportunity to learn and reflect. Remove every great man who did things that today are considered terrible and there won't be much left of our collective memory.
EPT
