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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
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On June 17 2020 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2020 06:30 iamthedave wrote:On June 17 2020 06:16 Djabanete wrote:On June 14 2020 05:26 Danglars wrote:
This sounds a lot more like Maoist struggle sessions than anything like engagement. Admit your wrong think. Conservatives think liberals (I guess I should say progressives) are dumb or misguided, liberals think conservatives are evil. That's one large, central truth of the culture war. You have wrong political opinions because you're sort of a shitty human being (not your fault, you were brought up that way!) and the cure is for me, your enlightened progressive savior, to teach you about your shittiness and drag you "kicking and screaming" into the right side of history. The way we get stuff done in a liberal democracy is, we talk about it and then we vote about it. Someone essentially asked Mohdoo, “what are you going to do with people who insist on being wrong all the time?”, as if the expected answer was gulags or something. But no, we’re trying to be a liberal democracy, so of course the answer is that we persuade them that they’re wrong if possible and seek to outvote them if not. You’re trying to paint this as some kind of brutal oppression when it’s actually modern-day Republicans who are cooling on liberal democracy and who are really into minority rule. If we had to wait for today’s Republicans to quit kicking and screaming before getting anything done... we’d never get anything done. Certainly wouldn't get anything done concerning police violence. The Republicans love that stuff. Remarkable how police killing white people is supposed to be some sort of counter to police disproportionately killing Black people. For a group supposedly opposed to a tyrannical government they sure do love themselves some bootlicking when it comes to cops.
So is the disproportionate amount of killing the most important part?
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On June 17 2020 08:31 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2020 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 17 2020 06:30 iamthedave wrote:On June 17 2020 06:16 Djabanete wrote:On June 14 2020 05:26 Danglars wrote:
This sounds a lot more like Maoist struggle sessions than anything like engagement. Admit your wrong think. Conservatives think liberals (I guess I should say progressives) are dumb or misguided, liberals think conservatives are evil. That's one large, central truth of the culture war. You have wrong political opinions because you're sort of a shitty human being (not your fault, you were brought up that way!) and the cure is for me, your enlightened progressive savior, to teach you about your shittiness and drag you "kicking and screaming" into the right side of history. The way we get stuff done in a liberal democracy is, we talk about it and then we vote about it. Someone essentially asked Mohdoo, “what are you going to do with people who insist on being wrong all the time?”, as if the expected answer was gulags or something. But no, we’re trying to be a liberal democracy, so of course the answer is that we persuade them that they’re wrong if possible and seek to outvote them if not. You’re trying to paint this as some kind of brutal oppression when it’s actually modern-day Republicans who are cooling on liberal democracy and who are really into minority rule. If we had to wait for today’s Republicans to quit kicking and screaming before getting anything done... we’d never get anything done. Certainly wouldn't get anything done concerning police violence. The Republicans love that stuff. Remarkable how police killing white people is supposed to be some sort of counter to police disproportionately killing Black people. For a group supposedly opposed to a tyrannical government they sure do love themselves some bootlicking when it comes to cops. So is the disproportionate amount of killing the most important part?
Most important part of what?
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On June 17 2020 06:16 Djabanete wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2020 05:26 Danglars wrote:
This sounds a lot more like Maoist struggle sessions than anything like engagement. Admit your wrong think. Conservatives think liberals (I guess I should say progressives) are dumb or misguided, liberals think conservatives are evil. That's one large, central truth of the culture war. You have wrong political opinions because you're sort of a shitty human being (not your fault, you were brought up that way!) and the cure is for me, your enlightened progressive savior, to teach you about your shittiness and drag you "kicking and screaming" into the right side of history. The way we get stuff done in a liberal democracy is, we talk about it and then we vote about it. Someone essentially asked Mohdoo, “what are you going to do with people who insist on being wrong all the time?”, as if the expected answer was gulags or something. But no, we’re trying to be a liberal democracy, so of course the answer is that we persuade them that they’re wrong if possible and seek to outvote them if not. You’re trying to paint this as some kind of brutal oppression when it’s actually modern-day Republicans who are cooling on liberal democracy and who are really into minority rule. If we had to wait for today’s Republicans to quit kicking and screaming before getting anything done... we’d never get anything done.
You missed some of the sarcasm:
On June 14 2020 04:55 Sermokala wrote:
Now that mohdoo has declared half the country murderers of people and happiness lets ask him the next obvious step.
What do you want to do with people who believe in social conservativism?
The declaration was nihilistic, and the rejoinder equally cynical on "what do with actual murderers of people and happiness." I wrote something around two to three thousand words of exchanges in the last two days on ideas arising from similar posts, so I'll let those posts speak for themselves.
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On June 17 2020 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2020 06:30 iamthedave wrote:On June 17 2020 06:16 Djabanete wrote:On June 14 2020 05:26 Danglars wrote:
This sounds a lot more like Maoist struggle sessions than anything like engagement. Admit your wrong think. Conservatives think liberals (I guess I should say progressives) are dumb or misguided, liberals think conservatives are evil. That's one large, central truth of the culture war. You have wrong political opinions because you're sort of a shitty human being (not your fault, you were brought up that way!) and the cure is for me, your enlightened progressive savior, to teach you about your shittiness and drag you "kicking and screaming" into the right side of history. The way we get stuff done in a liberal democracy is, we talk about it and then we vote about it. Someone essentially asked Mohdoo, “what are you going to do with people who insist on being wrong all the time?”, as if the expected answer was gulags or something. But no, we’re trying to be a liberal democracy, so of course the answer is that we persuade them that they’re wrong if possible and seek to outvote them if not. You’re trying to paint this as some kind of brutal oppression when it’s actually modern-day Republicans who are cooling on liberal democracy and who are really into minority rule. If we had to wait for today’s Republicans to quit kicking and screaming before getting anything done... we’d never get anything done. Certainly wouldn't get anything done concerning police violence. The Republicans love that stuff. Remarkable how police killing white people is supposed to be some sort of counter to police disproportionately killing Black people. For a group supposedly opposed to a tyrannical government they sure do love themselves some bootlicking when it comes to cops.
You know as well as I do that when people trot out the old 'good guy with a gun' argument, the cops are the archetypal good guy with a gun that they're thinking of.
Most people - even in the US - do not believe that the cops are bad people.
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On June 17 2020 07:06 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2020 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 17 2020 06:30 iamthedave wrote:On June 17 2020 06:16 Djabanete wrote:On June 14 2020 05:26 Danglars wrote:
This sounds a lot more like Maoist struggle sessions than anything like engagement. Admit your wrong think. Conservatives think liberals (I guess I should say progressives) are dumb or misguided, liberals think conservatives are evil. That's one large, central truth of the culture war. You have wrong political opinions because you're sort of a shitty human being (not your fault, you were brought up that way!) and the cure is for me, your enlightened progressive savior, to teach you about your shittiness and drag you "kicking and screaming" into the right side of history. The way we get stuff done in a liberal democracy is, we talk about it and then we vote about it. Someone essentially asked Mohdoo, “what are you going to do with people who insist on being wrong all the time?”, as if the expected answer was gulags or something. But no, we’re trying to be a liberal democracy, so of course the answer is that we persuade them that they’re wrong if possible and seek to outvote them if not. You’re trying to paint this as some kind of brutal oppression when it’s actually modern-day Republicans who are cooling on liberal democracy and who are really into minority rule. If we had to wait for today’s Republicans to quit kicking and screaming before getting anything done... we’d never get anything done. Certainly wouldn't get anything done concerning police violence. The Republicans love that stuff. Remarkable how police killing white people is supposed to be some sort of counter to police disproportionately killing Black people. For a group supposedly opposed to a tyrannical government they sure do love themselves some bootlicking when it comes to cops. As long as you have a crap ton of guns, people are going to continue to get shot. As long as that is a priority for you, just understand the consequence. Police will shoot citizens, citizens will shoot police and each other. Ending violence in general is not what this is about because too many people still thinking everyone should have as many and whatever types of guns they want. This protest is against using violence disproportionately against blacks and to a lesser degree other minorities. I wish it was about reducing overall violence, but most American's have bought into the guns = freedom thing despite all logic saying the opposite. If you get proper social programs that reduce systemic racism and poverty you will likely lower violence to some degree. But as long as prohibition exists and you have a super armed populace you will remain one of the most violent countries. And from what I can tell many American's are ok with this cost.
There's a whole lot in the last paragraph of this post that you'd have to quantify or source for it to mean anything at all.
"Most american's (sic) have bought into the guns = freedom thing despite all logic saying the opposite"
There's an entire thread on gun legislation in the US. It's part of the constitution and has been discussed back to front a number of times. You have to source your "most americans have bought into the guns = freedom" and the "...despite all logic saying the opposite" or you're just talking out your ass.
"If you get proper social programs that reduce systemic racism and poverty you will likely lower violence to some degree."
Literally actively being worked on quite actively by large portions of the US. See : much protesting and BLM support of late. Also, not a terribly compelling endorsement besides, and with no backing other than that being how you feel.
"...you will remain one of the most violent countries"
...source? What kind of violence? You will remain one of the countries with the highest occurence of gun violence or violent crimes involving guns? What, specifically, do you mean by that statement?
I don't disagree with any of the claims you're making or trying to make, I just disagree with them being completely unsourced. Without any actual credible backing your claims are just a man shouting emptily into the internet. You can post better than this.
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On June 17 2020 10:23 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2020 09:03 Fleetfeet wrote:On June 17 2020 07:06 JimmiC wrote:On June 17 2020 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 17 2020 06:30 iamthedave wrote:On June 17 2020 06:16 Djabanete wrote:On June 14 2020 05:26 Danglars wrote:
This sounds a lot more like Maoist struggle sessions than anything like engagement. Admit your wrong think. Conservatives think liberals (I guess I should say progressives) are dumb or misguided, liberals think conservatives are evil. That's one large, central truth of the culture war. You have wrong political opinions because you're sort of a shitty human being (not your fault, you were brought up that way!) and the cure is for me, your enlightened progressive savior, to teach you about your shittiness and drag you "kicking and screaming" into the right side of history. The way we get stuff done in a liberal democracy is, we talk about it and then we vote about it. Someone essentially asked Mohdoo, “what are you going to do with people who insist on being wrong all the time?”, as if the expected answer was gulags or something. But no, we’re trying to be a liberal democracy, so of course the answer is that we persuade them that they’re wrong if possible and seek to outvote them if not. You’re trying to paint this as some kind of brutal oppression when it’s actually modern-day Republicans who are cooling on liberal democracy and who are really into minority rule. If we had to wait for today’s Republicans to quit kicking and screaming before getting anything done... we’d never get anything done. Certainly wouldn't get anything done concerning police violence. The Republicans love that stuff. Remarkable how police killing white people is supposed to be some sort of counter to police disproportionately killing Black people. For a group supposedly opposed to a tyrannical government they sure do love themselves some bootlicking when it comes to cops. As long as you have a crap ton of guns, people are going to continue to get shot. As long as that is a priority for you, just understand the consequence. Police will shoot citizens, citizens will shoot police and each other. Ending violence in general is not what this is about because too many people still thinking everyone should have as many and whatever types of guns they want. This protest is against using violence disproportionately against blacks and to a lesser degree other minorities. I wish it was about reducing overall violence, but most American's have bought into the guns = freedom thing despite all logic saying the opposite. If you get proper social programs that reduce systemic racism and poverty you will likely lower violence to some degree. But as long as prohibition exists and you have a super armed populace you will remain one of the most violent countries. And from what I can tell many American's are ok with this cost. There's a whole lot in the last paragraph of this post that you'd have to quantify or source for it to mean anything at all. "Most american's (sic) have bought into the guns = freedom thing despite all logic saying the opposite" I'm aware of the thread, it is part of the Constitution, but the NRA has removed the A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, part so that many many people don't know that exists. The actual amendment and how it was used was closest to the national gaurd, and was intially used to put down rebellion in the US not to over throw tyranny. And to have a musket you need to be trained, and availble if they needed you and the gun.
All the NRA cares about it money and guns sales. You can see this because any sort of regulatory rule they fight for tooth and nail. 3d printed guns they lobby for a ban. If you were actually about what the NRA claims to be about you would be for a well regulated system. And even if they were just like they are today they should support 3d printed guns because of "freedom". The freedom part you just have to look at their website, and talk to a few Americans and you can see how the two are tied together. There's an entire thread on gun legislation in the US. It's part of the constitution and has been discussed back to front a number of times. You have to source your "most americans have bought into the guns = freedom" and the "...despite all logic saying the opposite" or you're just talking out your ass. "If you get proper social programs that reduce systemic racism and poverty you will likely lower violence to some degree." Literally actively being worked on quite actively by large portions of the US. See : much protesting and BLM support of late. Also, not a terribly compelling endorsement besides, and with no backing other than that being how you feel. I did not say that they are not, I'm saying that even if they get what they want there will still be a lot of killing because of guns, organized crime, police needed to be as armed or more than the populace.
"...you will remain one of the most violent countries" ...source? What kind of violence? You will remain one of the countries with the highest occurence of gun violence or violent crimes involving guns? What, specifically, do you mean by that statement? I'm saying that to get rid of violence on the whole they are going to need more than eliminate racism. The issue is many Americans are simply ok with which you can tell based on support for support for guns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_ratehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shooting#:~:text=The United States has had the most mass shootings of any country. I don't disagree with any of the claims you're making or trying to make, I just disagree with them being completely unsourced. Without any actual credible backing your claims are just a man shouting emptily into the internet. You can post better than this. I didn't put any sources in because I thought it was a well known that the US is by far the most violent of western democracies. Between the guns, gun murders and injuries, death penalty, stand your ground laws, heavily armed organized crime, highly armed police force and so on.
And prison violence, too.
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On June 17 2020 08:40 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2020 08:31 IgnE wrote:On June 17 2020 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 17 2020 06:30 iamthedave wrote:On June 17 2020 06:16 Djabanete wrote:On June 14 2020 05:26 Danglars wrote:
This sounds a lot more like Maoist struggle sessions than anything like engagement. Admit your wrong think. Conservatives think liberals (I guess I should say progressives) are dumb or misguided, liberals think conservatives are evil. That's one large, central truth of the culture war. You have wrong political opinions because you're sort of a shitty human being (not your fault, you were brought up that way!) and the cure is for me, your enlightened progressive savior, to teach you about your shittiness and drag you "kicking and screaming" into the right side of history. The way we get stuff done in a liberal democracy is, we talk about it and then we vote about it. Someone essentially asked Mohdoo, “what are you going to do with people who insist on being wrong all the time?”, as if the expected answer was gulags or something. But no, we’re trying to be a liberal democracy, so of course the answer is that we persuade them that they’re wrong if possible and seek to outvote them if not. You’re trying to paint this as some kind of brutal oppression when it’s actually modern-day Republicans who are cooling on liberal democracy and who are really into minority rule. If we had to wait for today’s Republicans to quit kicking and screaming before getting anything done... we’d never get anything done. Certainly wouldn't get anything done concerning police violence. The Republicans love that stuff. Remarkable how police killing white people is supposed to be some sort of counter to police disproportionately killing Black people. For a group supposedly opposed to a tyrannical government they sure do love themselves some bootlicking when it comes to cops. So is the disproportionate amount of killing the most important part? Most important part of what?
Police brutality
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On June 17 2020 11:21 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2020 08:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 17 2020 08:31 IgnE wrote:On June 17 2020 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 17 2020 06:30 iamthedave wrote:On June 17 2020 06:16 Djabanete wrote:On June 14 2020 05:26 Danglars wrote:
This sounds a lot more like Maoist struggle sessions than anything like engagement. Admit your wrong think. Conservatives think liberals (I guess I should say progressives) are dumb or misguided, liberals think conservatives are evil. That's one large, central truth of the culture war. You have wrong political opinions because you're sort of a shitty human being (not your fault, you were brought up that way!) and the cure is for me, your enlightened progressive savior, to teach you about your shittiness and drag you "kicking and screaming" into the right side of history. The way we get stuff done in a liberal democracy is, we talk about it and then we vote about it. Someone essentially asked Mohdoo, “what are you going to do with people who insist on being wrong all the time?”, as if the expected answer was gulags or something. But no, we’re trying to be a liberal democracy, so of course the answer is that we persuade them that they’re wrong if possible and seek to outvote them if not. You’re trying to paint this as some kind of brutal oppression when it’s actually modern-day Republicans who are cooling on liberal democracy and who are really into minority rule. If we had to wait for today’s Republicans to quit kicking and screaming before getting anything done... we’d never get anything done. Certainly wouldn't get anything done concerning police violence. The Republicans love that stuff. Remarkable how police killing white people is supposed to be some sort of counter to police disproportionately killing Black people. For a group supposedly opposed to a tyrannical government they sure do love themselves some bootlicking when it comes to cops. So is the disproportionate amount of killing the most important part? Most important part of what? Police brutality
Well I'd certainly be more safe if police exclusively abused and murdered white people.
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On June 17 2020 10:23 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2020 09:03 Fleetfeet wrote:On June 17 2020 07:06 JimmiC wrote:On June 17 2020 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 17 2020 06:30 iamthedave wrote:On June 17 2020 06:16 Djabanete wrote:On June 14 2020 05:26 Danglars wrote:
This sounds a lot more like Maoist struggle sessions than anything like engagement. Admit your wrong think. Conservatives think liberals (I guess I should say progressives) are dumb or misguided, liberals think conservatives are evil. That's one large, central truth of the culture war. You have wrong political opinions because you're sort of a shitty human being (not your fault, you were brought up that way!) and the cure is for me, your enlightened progressive savior, to teach you about your shittiness and drag you "kicking and screaming" into the right side of history. The way we get stuff done in a liberal democracy is, we talk about it and then we vote about it. Someone essentially asked Mohdoo, “what are you going to do with people who insist on being wrong all the time?”, as if the expected answer was gulags or something. But no, we’re trying to be a liberal democracy, so of course the answer is that we persuade them that they’re wrong if possible and seek to outvote them if not. You’re trying to paint this as some kind of brutal oppression when it’s actually modern-day Republicans who are cooling on liberal democracy and who are really into minority rule. If we had to wait for today’s Republicans to quit kicking and screaming before getting anything done... we’d never get anything done. Certainly wouldn't get anything done concerning police violence. The Republicans love that stuff. Remarkable how police killing white people is supposed to be some sort of counter to police disproportionately killing Black people. For a group supposedly opposed to a tyrannical government they sure do love themselves some bootlicking when it comes to cops. As long as you have a crap ton of guns, people are going to continue to get shot. As long as that is a priority for you, just understand the consequence. Police will shoot citizens, citizens will shoot police and each other. Ending violence in general is not what this is about because too many people still thinking everyone should have as many and whatever types of guns they want. This protest is against using violence disproportionately against blacks and to a lesser degree other minorities. I wish it was about reducing overall violence, but most American's have bought into the guns = freedom thing despite all logic saying the opposite. If you get proper social programs that reduce systemic racism and poverty you will likely lower violence to some degree. But as long as prohibition exists and you have a super armed populace you will remain one of the most violent countries. And from what I can tell many American's are ok with this cost. There's a whole lot in the last paragraph of this post that you'd have to quantify or source for it to mean anything at all. "Most american's (sic) have bought into the guns = freedom thing despite all logic saying the opposite" I'm aware of the thread, it is part of the Constitution, but the NRA has removed the A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, part so that many many people don't know that exists. The actual amendment and how it was used was closest to the national gaurd, and was intially used to put down rebellion in the US not to over throw tyranny. And to have a musket you need to be trained, and availble if they needed you and the gun.
All the NRA cares about it money and guns sales. You can see this because any sort of regulatory rule they fight for tooth and nail. 3d printed guns they lobby for a ban. If you were actually about what the NRA claims to be about you would be for a well regulated system. And even if they were just like they are today they should support 3d printed guns because of "freedom". The freedom part you just have to look at their website, and talk to a few Americans and you can see how the two are tied together. There's an entire thread on gun legislation in the US. It's part of the constitution and has been discussed back to front a number of times. You have to source your "most americans have bought into the guns = freedom" and the "...despite all logic saying the opposite" or you're just talking out your ass. "If you get proper social programs that reduce systemic racism and poverty you will likely lower violence to some degree." Literally actively being worked on quite actively by large portions of the US. See : much protesting and BLM support of late. Also, not a terribly compelling endorsement besides, and with no backing other than that being how you feel. I did not say that they are not, I'm saying that even if they get what they want there will still be a lot of killing because of guns, organized crime, police needed to be as armed or more than the populace.
"...you will remain one of the most violent countries" ...source? What kind of violence? You will remain one of the countries with the highest occurence of gun violence or violent crimes involving guns? What, specifically, do you mean by that statement? I'm saying that to get rid of violence on the whole they are going to need more than eliminate racism. The issue is many Americans are simply ok with which you can tell based on support for support for guns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_ratehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shooting#:~:text=The United States has had the most mass shootings of any country. I don't disagree with any of the claims you're making or trying to make, I just disagree with them being completely unsourced. Without any actual credible backing your claims are just a man shouting emptily into the internet. You can post better than this. I didn't put any sources in because I thought it was a well known that the US is by far the most violent of western democracies. Between the guns, gun murders and injuries, death penalty, stand your ground laws, heavily armed organized crime, highly armed police force and so on.
Yeah, but if you say "One of the most violent countries" and actually mean "One of the most violent western democracies" then you're just not communicating well at all. I don't know that you mean something other than what you said. I don't question your lack of sources because I like reading a whole lot, I question your lack of sources because all I get from your post is that it is the opinion of JimmiC that the US has a problem with guns and thereby violence, which is almost entirely useless to me in understanding or mulling over the problem.
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To stick to a "us politics level" Its pretty measurable that home ownership is tied to gun ownership in America and that its more likely to be in the 30's for percent of support for gun ownership.
Its just that a margine of 30 percent or so is critically important for every party when it happens to be a 2 party system.
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On June 17 2020 07:06 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2020 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 17 2020 06:30 iamthedave wrote:On June 17 2020 06:16 Djabanete wrote:On June 14 2020 05:26 Danglars wrote:
This sounds a lot more like Maoist struggle sessions than anything like engagement. Admit your wrong think. Conservatives think liberals (I guess I should say progressives) are dumb or misguided, liberals think conservatives are evil. That's one large, central truth of the culture war. You have wrong political opinions because you're sort of a shitty human being (not your fault, you were brought up that way!) and the cure is for me, your enlightened progressive savior, to teach you about your shittiness and drag you "kicking and screaming" into the right side of history. The way we get stuff done in a liberal democracy is, we talk about it and then we vote about it. Someone essentially asked Mohdoo, “what are you going to do with people who insist on being wrong all the time?”, as if the expected answer was gulags or something. But no, we’re trying to be a liberal democracy, so of course the answer is that we persuade them that they’re wrong if possible and seek to outvote them if not. You’re trying to paint this as some kind of brutal oppression when it’s actually modern-day Republicans who are cooling on liberal democracy and who are really into minority rule. If we had to wait for today’s Republicans to quit kicking and screaming before getting anything done... we’d never get anything done. Certainly wouldn't get anything done concerning police violence. The Republicans love that stuff. Remarkable how police killing white people is supposed to be some sort of counter to police disproportionately killing Black people. For a group supposedly opposed to a tyrannical government they sure do love themselves some bootlicking when it comes to cops. As long as you have a crap ton of guns, people are going to continue to get shot. As long as that is a priority for you, just understand the consequence. Police will shoot citizens, citizens will shoot police and each other. Ending violence in general is not what this is about because too many people still thinking everyone should have as many and whatever types of guns they want. This protest is against using violence disproportionately against blacks and to a lesser degree other minorities. I wish it was about reducing overall violence, but most American's have bought into the guns = freedom thing despite all logic saying the opposite. If you get proper social programs that reduce systemic racism and poverty you will likely lower violence to some degree. But as long as prohibition exists and you have a super armed populace you will remain one of the most violent countries. And from what I can tell many American's are ok with this cost.
Discussing with american folks on the internet, I have very often found that some of them believe that someone getting shot is not really a problem if he / she did something wrong, which, from a european perspective, is completely outrageous.
I don't know one person that thinks that shooting someone who trespasses on your property is not just a cold blooded murder, unless you can prove you were definitely in immediate danger of getting killed yourself. I don't know one person that thinks that a law like "stand your ground" that allows you to basically murder someone if you feel threatened is anywhere close to reasonable. And of course there is the death penalty that in the political spectrum is only defended by neo fascists such as Le Pen and her likes.
In France, if a policeman kills someone, it's high court for homicide, regardless the circumstances. And he will be held at the same standard than everyone else and have to prove that there were no other alternative than kill or die. Killing someone is simply not an acceptable outcome in an encounter, ever, unless you are basically getting shot at yourself or something like that.
I think that as long as this culture of solving things with extreme violence will be acceptable in the US, police will keep murdering people. The racism is a huge (the biggest) part of the story, but the other question is, why does the police kill anyone at all.
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On June 17 2020 18:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2020 07:06 JimmiC wrote:On June 17 2020 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 17 2020 06:30 iamthedave wrote:On June 17 2020 06:16 Djabanete wrote:On June 14 2020 05:26 Danglars wrote:
This sounds a lot more like Maoist struggle sessions than anything like engagement. Admit your wrong think. Conservatives think liberals (I guess I should say progressives) are dumb or misguided, liberals think conservatives are evil. That's one large, central truth of the culture war. You have wrong political opinions because you're sort of a shitty human being (not your fault, you were brought up that way!) and the cure is for me, your enlightened progressive savior, to teach you about your shittiness and drag you "kicking and screaming" into the right side of history. The way we get stuff done in a liberal democracy is, we talk about it and then we vote about it. Someone essentially asked Mohdoo, “what are you going to do with people who insist on being wrong all the time?”, as if the expected answer was gulags or something. But no, we’re trying to be a liberal democracy, so of course the answer is that we persuade them that they’re wrong if possible and seek to outvote them if not. You’re trying to paint this as some kind of brutal oppression when it’s actually modern-day Republicans who are cooling on liberal democracy and who are really into minority rule. If we had to wait for today’s Republicans to quit kicking and screaming before getting anything done... we’d never get anything done. Certainly wouldn't get anything done concerning police violence. The Republicans love that stuff. Remarkable how police killing white people is supposed to be some sort of counter to police disproportionately killing Black people. For a group supposedly opposed to a tyrannical government they sure do love themselves some bootlicking when it comes to cops. As long as you have a crap ton of guns, people are going to continue to get shot. As long as that is a priority for you, just understand the consequence. Police will shoot citizens, citizens will shoot police and each other. Ending violence in general is not what this is about because too many people still thinking everyone should have as many and whatever types of guns they want. This protest is against using violence disproportionately against blacks and to a lesser degree other minorities. I wish it was about reducing overall violence, but most American's have bought into the guns = freedom thing despite all logic saying the opposite. If you get proper social programs that reduce systemic racism and poverty you will likely lower violence to some degree. But as long as prohibition exists and you have a super armed populace you will remain one of the most violent countries. And from what I can tell many American's are ok with this cost. Discussing with american folks on the internet, I have very often found that some of them believe that someone getting shot is not really a problem if he / she did something wrong, which, from a european perspective, is completely outrageous. I don't know one person that thinks that shooting someone who trespasses on your property is not just a cold blooded murder, unless you can prove you were definitely in immediate danger of getting killed yourself. I don't know one person that thinks that a law like "stand your ground" that allows you to basically murder someone if you feel threatened is anywhere close to reasonable. And of course there is the death penalty that in the political spectrum is only defended by neo fascists such as Le Pen and her likes. In France, if a policeman kills someone, it's high court for homicide, regardless the circumstances. And he will be held at the same standard than everyone else and have to prove that there were no other alternative than kill or die. Killing someone is simply not an acceptable outcome in an encounter, ever, unless you are basically getting shot at yourself or something like that. I think that as long as this culture of solving things with extreme violence will be acceptable in the US, police will keep murdering people. The racism is a huge (the biggest) part of the story, but the other question is, why does the police kill anyone at all.
Anecdotally, of course, but I agree with you - I hear the same rationale from Americans... He was stealing / trespassing / giving the cop a dirty look / committing a generic misdemeanor / wasn't actually doing anything wrong but did you see the color of his skin; *of course it logically follows that he be shot and killed by the cop! There's no other option!* It's this crazy false dichotomy between "letting a bad guy go with no consequences" and "killing the bad guy", and I see it used to justify every black man killed by a cop, whether or not the black man was doing anything wrong.
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I prefer not to think about how many people killed and/or injured because of Trump pushing a bullshit solution.
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I prefer not to think about how much money he's secretly secured for himself pushing a bullshit solution.
In other news, DOJ is looking to propose a rollback of part of Section 230 while also making them culpable in civil and federal lawsuits. I wish they had as much zeal in addressing the glaring issues of systemic racism/prejudice as they do in going after techbros/hoes.
The Justice Department is set to propose a rollback of legal protections that online platforms have enjoyed for more than two decades, in an effort to make tech companies more responsible in how they police their content, according to a Trump administration official.
The department’s proposed changes, to be unveiled as soon as Wednesday, are designed to spur online platforms to be more aggressive in addressing illicit and harmful conduct on their sites, and to be fairer and more consistent in their decisions to take down content they find objectionable, the official said.
The Justice Department proposal is a legislative plan that would have to be adopted by Congress. Source
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I am sure that this is a reaction to twitter being mean to Trump.
But i don't see how forcing platforms to be more aggressive in addressing illicit and harmful conduct would help Trump. So i assume that that is what they claim they are doing, but what they actually do is hide something like "The president is always right" in there. Also, being more "fair and consistent" could be code for a "both sides" thing.
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Northern Ireland27351 Posts
On June 18 2020 00:57 Simberto wrote:
I am sure that this is a reaction to twitter being mean to Trump.
But i don't see how forcing platforms to be more aggressive in addressing illicit and harmful conduct would help Trump. So i assume that that is what they claim they are doing, but what they actually do is hide something like "The president is always right" in there. Also, being more "fair and consistent" could be code for a "both sides" thing.
God only knows.
Sure as hell know the Trump supporters on my feed have been hysterical about free speech any time the EU does anything/proposes anything in this domain, I’m sure they’ll come out against this move too.
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EPT
