|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
Canada11363 Posts
Well, I never wore a mask.
When the first I heard of masks, high anxiety people were going for it and I was hearing that aside from the proper medical ones, it didn't help and was maybe detrimental if the mask was contaminated and you then touched it with your fingers etc. So it was a bit of keep calm, and carry on.
Worked from home, went grocery shopping and otherwise kept to myself. Now it's been over a month since we've detected a new Covid case on the Island, and I'm back to work in the building, so I can't see wearing a mask any time soon.
I think the bias is towards status quo, not conservatism or whatever. Mask wearing is inconvenient and so if they tell you up front, don't bother you're likely to believe them and not go along with the people panicking (unless you are high in neuroticism). Then they tell you, reverse that, masks might help, and you think well, whatever. Just keep out of people's way and stick with the status quo. Could be urban-rural too. The close contact of big cities is a bigger deal compared to being in some town of 30K.
|
Truthfully I've never worn a mask either. But I also barely go out and nobody comes to my flat, so it's been alright.
|
I am required to wear a mask when entering and exiting my courthouse, and when in the hallways. I also wear a mask whenever I do takeout or necessary shopping. These days, the majority of the folks I see out and about do not.
|
Most businesses, all supermarkets, and all doctors' offices/ vet clinics/ hospitals in my area (that are open) absolutely require customers/patients to wear masks, or else you're simply not allowed in. Similarly, my wife and I just closed on a house a few days ago, and the entire two-month process had plenty of interactions with real estate agents, lawyers, and inspectors (to say nothing of the actual house tours)... every time, everyone was supposed to socially distance and wear masks (and, during the house tours, wear gloves too). Granted, I live in New Jersey, which I believe is the state that has been hit second hardest (only after NY) by the coronavirus, so I'm not particularly surprised that our rules and restrictions have likely been more severe than in most of the other parts of the country. Our population density is pretty crazy too.
|
Congrats on the closing DPB 
|
Thanks! We were gonna go house-searching this summer anyway (based on how our savings had been steadily increasing over the past few years), and we lucked out that we weren't/aren't really financially affected by covid-19 (my teaching job is still secure, and my wife is a veterinarian who owns her own clinic). Interest rates on mortgage loans in my area are way down and there isn't much competition (no one else wants to buy a house because most people need to figure out their new financial situation), so we got pretty lucky.
|
When I was working before the shut down we were in the shortage, so I didn't wear a mask. Didn't wear one for the 6+ weeks after outside of the one day a week I needed to go to in-person appointments because I didn't leave the house. Now my store is open again and I swear it any time I'm in the building or going into another business. It's frustrating and hurts to keep it on all day.
|
On June 16 2020 15:46 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2020 14:55 Mohdoo wrote:On June 16 2020 14:51 Belisarius wrote:
I mean we've already had like 10 pages of people complaining about conservatives, so if you want to continue go wild, but I don't see much point myself. I’m not complaining, I’m asking people’s perspectives on what cultural differences they think lead to the difference Oh, this is actually a fun one for me to answer: The memetics on the conservative right consider the modern left to be a decadent movement spoiled by modern prosperity and now increasingly ferreting out minor violations of purity which they find increasingly offensive, which results in the over regulation or normal human activity which thereby actively corrupts the nation's institutions and its soul. Two sad, but classic cases are Eric Gardner and Rayshard Brooks. On the right, it is widely considered that the death of Gardener was an inevitable consequence of the cigarette policies enacted by Mayor Bloomberg and Andrew Cuomo. Rayshard Brooks' death is an anticipated consequence of the policies advocated by MADD. Brooks is illustrative because the "take his keys" option being spouted by many people in these past few days is exactly what was effectively outlawed because of MADD's advocacy efforts. Go to any suburban bar. The cops wait outside in squadcars like jackals around a wounded animal. In many towns harsh DUI enforcement is the #1 police mission. The old trope of police pulling over a drunk driver and driving him home has been dead for my entire lifetime. The cops would have been fired just as fast if that had been found out. Oh, and most of these minor regulations on normal human activity that conservatives find unnecessary and decadent: they are rarely enforced against the most obvious criminals. California conservatives like Victor Davis Hanson have written many pieces on this. It takes him 2 years to get a permit to remodel his garage, whereas other people remain unpunished for stacking piles of garbage about town. Obviously things like the Berkley and Portland protest incidents where antifa was given a hecklers veto by the police predate us by several years. Same pattern, normal person's legal and normal activity is harried by the state, clearly illegal other activity is ignored. Mask wearing fits perfectly into this paradigm. Its a minor thing that is kinda effective, but also the act of wearing a mask is also nonconservative in a way, because they believe that responsibility is a very high good, and masks increase anonymity. Then you get the experts being two faced, the media being two faced (with the BLM exception) and masks just look like another meaningless nanny state plan by leftists akin to soda bans. Edit: You have to remember, these same anti-maskers (largely, no group is uniform), have been told 2 weeks ago that its good for the police to break up their church services, but are being told today that the police should be defunded. This obviously creates more distrust, and foments the theory of a two tiered justice system that is allayed against them.
Fantastic write-up portraying the logic of the conservative mentality, thanks for this. My fiancé leans right and I know many right-leaning individuals, and this hits the nail on the head of their frustrations expressed. Specifically, the idea that the left wants to have their cake and eat it too. The idea that “law-abiding, decent” people put up with permits and rules and regulations they don’t necessarily agree with, while other parties break the law routinely and are not only unpunished, but supported and encouraged by left society. Left wants MORE restrictions/regulations on guns, yet LESS on immigration, because...why? White guy growing up on Mac and cheese 3 nights a week living with family in an OK house inherited from grandad goes to high school and is friends with someone in a minority population with similar wealth and quality of life, yet finds out he’ll have to pay 30k a year in student loans while his friend gets a free ride? That’s how conservatives are made.
And to be clear, he’d still be friends with the guy despite the frustration. Most conservatives I’ve met aren’t racist in the old school sense of the term (viewing all others of a certain race as inferior to themselves). A few definitely have some messed up preconceptions, but the majority in my experience view them as equal to themselves (e.g. equally deserving of success and capable of it). Their issue comes from the preferential treatment they get, and either lack of understanding or willingness to understand why it’s necessary. They view the term “racist” as a moving goalpost that used to mean “not viewing minorities as equals”, which they agree is bad, to now meaning “not accepting that systemic racism exists and that minorities need ‘preferential treatment’ to counterbalance it”, which they don’t get.
As a final aside that’s related, my fiancé’s father passed away a few months ago. He stipulated in his final wishes that he wanted an open casket viewing at the church, and then be cremated and buried. This was very important to him, and therefore important to my fiancé. Due to COVID-19, church gatherings and gatherings over 10 people were banned until further notice, so she had no choice but to cremate him early. Meanwhile, she sees the George Floyd protests and sees how many people are gathered together in one place despite restrictions, and not only are they not getting punished, but they’re encouraged and supported. She does not feel that is fair. How would one convince her that this situation is justified?
* - The preceding views are not reflective of my personal viewpoints, I’m sharing my personal experiences. I personally lean pretty far left.
|
On June 16 2020 20:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Most businesses, all supermarkets, and all doctors' offices/ vet clinics/ hospitals in my area (that are open) absolutely require customers/patients to wear masks, or else you're simply not allowed in. Similarly, my wife and I just closed on a house a few days ago, and the entire two-month process had plenty of interactions with real estate agents, lawyers, and inspectors (to say nothing of the actual house tours)... every time, everyone was supposed to socially distance and wear masks (and, during the house tours, wear gloves too). Granted, I live in New Jersey, which I believe is the state that has been hit second hardest (only after NY) by the coronavirus, so I'm not particularly surprised that our rules and restrictions have likely been more severe than in most of the other parts of the country. Our population density is pretty crazy too.
I also closed on a house recently, end of April in Ohio. Everything that could be done over the internet was done over the internet. The only person we ever interacted with in person before close was our agent and inspector. Our closing company demanded we do the entire thing outside while socially distanced and in masks, so it was a little different. Called it a pandemic closing.
There were no laws demanding that level of distancing, it was just everyone's policy to be a little paranoid.
|
On June 16 2020 23:36 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2020 20:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Most businesses, all supermarkets, and all doctors' offices/ vet clinics/ hospitals in my area (that are open) absolutely require customers/patients to wear masks, or else you're simply not allowed in. Similarly, my wife and I just closed on a house a few days ago, and the entire two-month process had plenty of interactions with real estate agents, lawyers, and inspectors (to say nothing of the actual house tours)... every time, everyone was supposed to socially distance and wear masks (and, during the house tours, wear gloves too). Granted, I live in New Jersey, which I believe is the state that has been hit second hardest (only after NY) by the coronavirus, so I'm not particularly surprised that our rules and restrictions have likely been more severe than in most of the other parts of the country. Our population density is pretty crazy too. I also closed on a house recently, end of April in Ohio. Everything that could be done over the internet was done over the internet. The only person we ever interacted with in person before close was our agent and inspector. Our closing company demanded we do the entire thing outside while socially distanced and in masks, so it was a little different. Called it a pandemic closing. There were no laws demanding that level of distancing, it was just everyone's policy to be a little paranoid.
I would definitely prefer everyone taking the "better safe than sorry" approach than thinking it's not worth taking seriously. If everyone was smart about these kinds of things, then maybe we wouldn't need as stringent formal restrictions (for those areas who actually received them).
|
On June 16 2020 22:40 Ryzel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2020 15:46 cLutZ wrote:On June 16 2020 14:55 Mohdoo wrote:On June 16 2020 14:51 Belisarius wrote:
I mean we've already had like 10 pages of people complaining about conservatives, so if you want to continue go wild, but I don't see much point myself. I’m not complaining, I’m asking people’s perspectives on what cultural differences they think lead to the difference Oh, this is actually a fun one for me to answer: The memetics on the conservative right consider the modern left to be a decadent movement spoiled by modern prosperity and now increasingly ferreting out minor violations of purity which they find increasingly offensive, which results in the over regulation or normal human activity which thereby actively corrupts the nation's institutions and its soul. Two sad, but classic cases are Eric Gardner and Rayshard Brooks. On the right, it is widely considered that the death of Gardener was an inevitable consequence of the cigarette policies enacted by Mayor Bloomberg and Andrew Cuomo. Rayshard Brooks' death is an anticipated consequence of the policies advocated by MADD. Brooks is illustrative because the "take his keys" option being spouted by many people in these past few days is exactly what was effectively outlawed because of MADD's advocacy efforts. Go to any suburban bar. The cops wait outside in squadcars like jackals around a wounded animal. In many towns harsh DUI enforcement is the #1 police mission. The old trope of police pulling over a drunk driver and driving him home has been dead for my entire lifetime. The cops would have been fired just as fast if that had been found out. Oh, and most of these minor regulations on normal human activity that conservatives find unnecessary and decadent: they are rarely enforced against the most obvious criminals. California conservatives like Victor Davis Hanson have written many pieces on this. It takes him 2 years to get a permit to remodel his garage, whereas other people remain unpunished for stacking piles of garbage about town. Obviously things like the Berkley and Portland protest incidents where antifa was given a hecklers veto by the police predate us by several years. Same pattern, normal person's legal and normal activity is harried by the state, clearly illegal other activity is ignored. Mask wearing fits perfectly into this paradigm. Its a minor thing that is kinda effective, but also the act of wearing a mask is also nonconservative in a way, because they believe that responsibility is a very high good, and masks increase anonymity. Then you get the experts being two faced, the media being two faced (with the BLM exception) and masks just look like another meaningless nanny state plan by leftists akin to soda bans. Edit: You have to remember, these same anti-maskers (largely, no group is uniform), have been told 2 weeks ago that its good for the police to break up their church services, but are being told today that the police should be defunded. This obviously creates more distrust, and foments the theory of a two tiered justice system that is allayed against them. As a final aside that’s related, my fiancé’s father passed away a few months ago. He stipulated in his final wishes that he wanted an open casket viewing at the church, and then be cremated and buried. This was very important to him, and therefore important to my fiancé. Due to COVID-19, church gatherings and gatherings over 10 people were banned until further notice, so she had no choice but to cremate him early. Meanwhile, she sees the George Floyd protests and sees how many people are gathered together in one place despite restrictions, and not only are they not getting punished, but they’re encouraged and supported. She does not feel that is fair. How would one convince her that this situation is justified? * - The preceding views are not reflective of my personal viewpoints, I’m sharing my personal experiences. I personally lean pretty far left.
You won’t be able to convince her if she can’t understand why people are willing to forgive protests against police brutality skipping some social distancing. While America has seemed to just lose interest in the coronavirus, both on the left and right, many supporters of the protests are concerned about the lack of social distancing.
It’s not a case of having your cake and wanting to eat it too, people protesting aren’t protesting because they can’t indulge in luxuries and partake in personal events. They’re protesting because they are sick and tired of the existential threat many people face from American police. The protests aren’t about her or her late father’s wishes, they’re about us as a collective society.
Ironically, these protests wouldn’t be lasting this long if people were still stuck in minimum wage jobs. For many people, the fact that they are finally able to mobilise a large number of the population to actually put long term pressure on the government outweighs the coronavirus risks. Many people have mentioned that they’re concerned about the coronavirus but they feel it’s the only time where a protest might actually result in actual lasting change.
On June 17 2020 00:35 GreenHorizons wrote:
It's not as if protests haven't come with consequences and punishment too. Thousands arrested, hundreds beaten, dozens permanently maimed, and some killed. Teargas, and rubber bullets to the face isn't my idea of "being encouraged" either.
That too, the police is consistently proving the protestors correct and giving them a reason to keep pushing back against them.
If you want to tell her to blame someone for encouraging the protests, tell her to blame the police for telling everyone that their act of protesting is actually just.
|
It's not as if protests haven't come with consequences and punishment too. Thousands arrested, hundreds beaten, dozens permanently maimed, and some killed. Teargas, and rubber bullets to the face isn't my idea of "being encouraged" either.
|
On June 16 2020 22:40 Ryzel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2020 15:46 cLutZ wrote:On June 16 2020 14:55 Mohdoo wrote:On June 16 2020 14:51 Belisarius wrote:
I mean we've already had like 10 pages of people complaining about conservatives, so if you want to continue go wild, but I don't see much point myself. I’m not complaining, I’m asking people’s perspectives on what cultural differences they think lead to the difference Oh, this is actually a fun one for me to answer: The memetics on the conservative right consider the modern left to be a decadent movement spoiled by modern prosperity and now increasingly ferreting out minor violations of purity which they find increasingly offensive, which results in the over regulation or normal human activity which thereby actively corrupts the nation's institutions and its soul. Two sad, but classic cases are Eric Gardner and Rayshard Brooks. On the right, it is widely considered that the death of Gardener was an inevitable consequence of the cigarette policies enacted by Mayor Bloomberg and Andrew Cuomo. Rayshard Brooks' death is an anticipated consequence of the policies advocated by MADD. Brooks is illustrative because the "take his keys" option being spouted by many people in these past few days is exactly what was effectively outlawed because of MADD's advocacy efforts. Go to any suburban bar. The cops wait outside in squadcars like jackals around a wounded animal. In many towns harsh DUI enforcement is the #1 police mission. The old trope of police pulling over a drunk driver and driving him home has been dead for my entire lifetime. The cops would have been fired just as fast if that had been found out. Oh, and most of these minor regulations on normal human activity that conservatives find unnecessary and decadent: they are rarely enforced against the most obvious criminals. California conservatives like Victor Davis Hanson have written many pieces on this. It takes him 2 years to get a permit to remodel his garage, whereas other people remain unpunished for stacking piles of garbage about town. Obviously things like the Berkley and Portland protest incidents where antifa was given a hecklers veto by the police predate us by several years. Same pattern, normal person's legal and normal activity is harried by the state, clearly illegal other activity is ignored. Mask wearing fits perfectly into this paradigm. Its a minor thing that is kinda effective, but also the act of wearing a mask is also nonconservative in a way, because they believe that responsibility is a very high good, and masks increase anonymity. Then you get the experts being two faced, the media being two faced (with the BLM exception) and masks just look like another meaningless nanny state plan by leftists akin to soda bans. Edit: You have to remember, these same anti-maskers (largely, no group is uniform), have been told 2 weeks ago that its good for the police to break up their church services, but are being told today that the police should be defunded. This obviously creates more distrust, and foments the theory of a two tiered justice system that is allayed against them. Fantastic write-up portraying the logic of the conservative mentality, thanks for this. My fiancé leans right and I know many right-leaning individuals, and this hits the nail on the head of their frustrations expressed. Specifically, the idea that the left wants to have their cake and eat it too. The idea that “law-abiding, decent” people put up with permits and rules and regulations they don’t necessarily agree with, while other parties break the law routinely and are not only unpunished, but supported and encouraged by left society. Left wants MORE restrictions/regulations on guns, yet LESS on immigration, because...why? White guy growing up on Mac and cheese 3 nights a week living with family in an OK house inherited from grandad goes to high school and is friends with someone in a minority population with similar wealth and quality of life, yet finds out he’ll have to pay 30k a year in student loans while his friend gets a free ride? That’s how conservatives are made. And to be clear, he’d still be friends with the guy despite the frustration. Most conservatives I’ve met aren’t racist in the old school sense of the term (viewing all others of a certain race as inferior to themselves). A few definitely have some messed up preconceptions, but the majority in my experience view them as equal to themselves (e.g. equally deserving of success and capable of it). Their issue comes from the preferential treatment they get, and either lack of understanding or willingness to understand why it’s necessary. They view the term “racist” as a moving goalpost that used to mean “not viewing minorities as equals”, which they agree is bad, to now meaning “not accepting that systemic racism exists and that minorities need ‘preferential treatment’ to counterbalance it”, which they don’t get. As a final aside that’s related, my fiancé’s father passed away a few months ago. He stipulated in his final wishes that he wanted an open casket viewing at the church, and then be cremated and buried. This was very important to him, and therefore important to my fiancé. Due to COVID-19, church gatherings and gatherings over 10 people were banned until further notice, so she had no choice but to cremate him early. Meanwhile, she sees the George Floyd protests and sees how many people are gathered together in one place despite restrictions, and not only are they not getting punished, but they’re encouraged and supported. She does not feel that is fair. How would one convince her that this situation is justified? * - The preceding views are not reflective of my personal viewpoints, I’m sharing my personal experiences. I personally lean pretty far left.
I'd start with the argument that both the ban on gathering and the protests are about saving lives. People, like her father, die when there are gatherings. And yes the protest are ill timed, but it's that it's an even greater urgency, when state agents assassinate people with complete impunity.
I have two friends who lost a parent during the crisis and suffered from the funeral not really happening. But a funeral not being optimal doesn't kill more people.
|
On June 17 2020 00:35 GreenHorizons wrote:
It's not as if protests haven't come with consequences and punishment too. Thousands arrested, hundreds beaten, dozens permanently maimed, and some killed. Teargas, and rubber bullets to the face isn't my idea of "being encouraged" either.
Being the devil's advocate here - because I think you are right - but from a conservative POV, it's true that many left and liberal politicians have shown various degrees of support to the protests.
The protests could not happen at a worst time, but when people are getting literally murdered, I don't think timing is relevant. Then again, I don't think conservative people want to get the measure of how black people are treated by the police, because their whole narrative is that here is no or little racism in the US.
|
On June 17 2020 01:59 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2020 00:35 GreenHorizons wrote:
It's not as if protests haven't come with consequences and punishment too. Thousands arrested, hundreds beaten, dozens permanently maimed, and some killed. Teargas, and rubber bullets to the face isn't my idea of "being encouraged" either. Being the devil's advocate here - because I think you are right - but from a conservative POV, it's true that many left and liberal politicians have shown various degrees of support to the protests. The protests could not happen at a worst time, but when people are getting literally murdered, I don't think timing is relevant. Then again, I don't think conservative people want to get the measure of how black people are treated by the police, because their whole narrative is that here is no or little racism in the US.
I don't know about that. I think some of them might want to get a measure of how black people are treated by police. The question is what is "the measure" we should use.
|
On June 16 2020 21:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Thanks! We were gonna go house-searching this summer anyway (based on how our savings had been steadily increasing over the past few years), and we lucked out that we weren't/aren't really financially affected by covid-19 (my teaching job is still secure, and my wife is a veterinarian who owns her own clinic). Interest rates on mortgage loans in my area are way down and there isn't much competition (no one else wants to buy a house because most people need to figure out their new financial situation), so we got pretty lucky.
Hah, very similar story to yours, but in Spain. We were about to start searching for a house when corona hit and everything went on lockdown for 2 months. When things started up again we had to wear masks, rubber gloves and were not even sure what we were doing was 100% legal when we crossed municipal lines to go and look at a flat. As the region deescalated things got a bit more relaxed, but face masks and disinfectant are still very much a part of it.
We closed last week, and couldn't shake hands with the owner. We stayed separated by a plexiglass screen as everybody involved signed papers and passed them around.
And here also, mortgage conditions seem at their best since a few years, although there's talk about banks getting even more strict in actually granting mortgages.
|
On June 17 2020 05:34 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2020 21:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Thanks! We were gonna go house-searching this summer anyway (based on how our savings had been steadily increasing over the past few years), and we lucked out that we weren't/aren't really financially affected by covid-19 (my teaching job is still secure, and my wife is a veterinarian who owns her own clinic). Interest rates on mortgage loans in my area are way down and there isn't much competition (no one else wants to buy a house because most people need to figure out their new financial situation), so we got pretty lucky. Hah, very similar story to yours, but in Spain. We were about to start searching for a house when corona hit and everything went on lockdown for 2 months. When things started up again we had to wear masks, rubber gloves and were not even sure what we were doing was 100% legal when we crossed municipal lines to go and look at a flat. As the region deescalated things got a bit more relaxed, but face masks and disinfectant are still very much a part of it. We closed last week, and couldn't shake hands with the owner. We stayed separated by a plexiglass screen as everybody involved signed papers and passed them around. And here also, mortgage conditions seem at their best since a few years, although there's talk about banks getting even more strict in actually granting mortgages.
Yeah, it was definitely weird not even getting to shake hands with the previous owners, especially since all of our correspondences were really warm and friendly (and both parties helped each other out, exchanged info, and are now basically friends), and my wife and I tend to be huggers. We're still getting used to not being able to come into physical contact with even our loved ones at the moment.
|
On June 14 2020 05:26 Danglars wrote:
This sounds a lot more like Maoist struggle sessions than anything like engagement. Admit your wrong think. Conservatives think liberals (I guess I should say progressives) are dumb or misguided, liberals think conservatives are evil. That's one large, central truth of the culture war. You have wrong political opinions because you're sort of a shitty human being (not your fault, you were brought up that way!) and the cure is for me, your enlightened progressive savior, to teach you about your shittiness and drag you "kicking and screaming" into the right side of history.
The way we get stuff done in a liberal democracy is, we talk about it and then we vote about it. Someone essentially asked Mohdoo, “what are you going to do with people who insist on being wrong all the time?”, as if the expected answer was gulags or something. But no, we’re trying to be a liberal democracy, so of course the answer is that we persuade them that they’re wrong if possible and seek to outvote them if not. You’re trying to paint this as some kind of brutal oppression when it’s actually modern-day Republicans who are cooling on liberal democracy and who are really into minority rule.
If we had to wait for today’s Republicans to quit kicking and screaming before getting anything done... we’d never get anything done.
|
On June 17 2020 06:16 Djabanete wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2020 05:26 Danglars wrote:
This sounds a lot more like Maoist struggle sessions than anything like engagement. Admit your wrong think. Conservatives think liberals (I guess I should say progressives) are dumb or misguided, liberals think conservatives are evil. That's one large, central truth of the culture war. You have wrong political opinions because you're sort of a shitty human being (not your fault, you were brought up that way!) and the cure is for me, your enlightened progressive savior, to teach you about your shittiness and drag you "kicking and screaming" into the right side of history. The way we get stuff done in a liberal democracy is, we talk about it and then we vote about it. Someone essentially asked Mohdoo, “what are you going to do with people who insist on being wrong all the time?”, as if the expected answer was gulags or something. But no, we’re trying to be a liberal democracy, so of course the answer is that we persuade them that they’re wrong if possible and seek to outvote them if not. You’re trying to paint this as some kind of brutal oppression when it’s actually modern-day Republicans who are cooling on liberal democracy and who are really into minority rule. If we had to wait for today’s Republicans to quit kicking and screaming before getting anything done... we’d never get anything done.
Certainly wouldn't get anything done concerning police violence. The Republicans love that stuff.
|
On June 17 2020 06:30 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2020 06:16 Djabanete wrote:On June 14 2020 05:26 Danglars wrote:
This sounds a lot more like Maoist struggle sessions than anything like engagement. Admit your wrong think. Conservatives think liberals (I guess I should say progressives) are dumb or misguided, liberals think conservatives are evil. That's one large, central truth of the culture war. You have wrong political opinions because you're sort of a shitty human being (not your fault, you were brought up that way!) and the cure is for me, your enlightened progressive savior, to teach you about your shittiness and drag you "kicking and screaming" into the right side of history. The way we get stuff done in a liberal democracy is, we talk about it and then we vote about it. Someone essentially asked Mohdoo, “what are you going to do with people who insist on being wrong all the time?”, as if the expected answer was gulags or something. But no, we’re trying to be a liberal democracy, so of course the answer is that we persuade them that they’re wrong if possible and seek to outvote them if not. You’re trying to paint this as some kind of brutal oppression when it’s actually modern-day Republicans who are cooling on liberal democracy and who are really into minority rule. If we had to wait for today’s Republicans to quit kicking and screaming before getting anything done... we’d never get anything done. Certainly wouldn't get anything done concerning police violence. The Republicans love that stuff.
Remarkable how police killing white people is supposed to be some sort of counter to police disproportionately killing Black people. For a group supposedly opposed to a tyrannical government they sure do love themselves some bootlicking when it comes to cops.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
