EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2224
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28736 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/climate/trump-fuel-economy.amp.html Seems like they're wasting no opportunity to fuck over the environment while attention is focused on corona virus. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12379 Posts
On April 01 2020 11:22 RenSC2 wrote: It was just speculation when I made it. I can't find anything conclusive; however, we can look at universal healthcare in Italy beginning in 1978. We then go to this page that has historical data of Italian hospital beds: https://tradingeconomics.com/italy/hospital-beds Make sure to get the max range on the data. Then look at where the hospital bed decline begins, strangely enough, right around the mid-late 1970s. Before universal healthcare, they were over 10 hospital beds per 1000 people. Now they're at about 3. Spain begins universal care in 1986 which fulfilled a 1978 mandate. https://tradingeconomics.com/spain/hospital-beds Again, get max data on the chart. Data is a bit spotty, but clearly decreases once universal healthcare is enacted even though it increased from 1971-1980. Perhaps it's just a worldwide effect of changing medicine. The US also decreased it's number of hospital beds pretty precipitously, so we didn't escape that fate either. https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/hospital-beds Is there any other major country without universal healthcare that we could look at? Germany does a little better and has a public/private partnership on healthcare, but would certainly still be universal. https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/hospital-beds So I'd say my initial assertion is still sensible and logical, but not proven. Do you have data for Sweden or Iceland? I'd say it's most likely an effect of the world becoming more rightwing after the fall of the Soviet Union. The right wants to spend less public money, that's the kind of things that get cut when there is no strong opposition. | ||
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RenSC2
United States1078 Posts
Major drop in the early 90s, then tailing off after that. Universal Healthcare in Sweden started in 1955 before the data set. https://tradingeconomics.com/iceland/hospital-beds Iceland only has data since 2008 in my link, but their hospital bed per capita is shrinking too since then. Theirs started in 1973, so again, can't compare the start of universal healthcare to the data at the time. But what you suggest is exactly what I worry about. If the US implements Universal Healthcare, the next congress will likely be a rebound to the right and they'll cut funding. Then Medicare for all limps along and doesn't really serve the public well. Things like wait times and rationing become a real thing and then people blame the left for implementing Universal Healthcare. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12379 Posts
I'm being facetious but imo we are getting a biased picture because of boomers. Their generation's left stopped fighting, for reasons that I can understand but not completely excuse. That played a large part in how the right managed to put its vision in front and, among other things, attack the welfare state so efficiently. It wasn't the case for earlier generations and I don't think it's going to be the case for millenials or zoomers. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On April 01 2020 10:40 JohnDelaney wrote: Is there any study with past documented cases from other countries with universal healthcare that supports this speculation? the only reason I can see that there are more ICU beds is that ICU patients bring in more revenue. | ||
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schaf
Germany1326 Posts
On April 01 2020 10:34 Belisarius wrote: It's kind of a strange situation. The US has less beds per capita than most social democracies, but it actually has more ICU beds per capita by a fairly large margin. There's obviously a lot more demand for ICUs when people can't afford preventative care. I'm not sure which is better in a pandemic, but you might be able to argue both ways. The higher number of ICUs might also be due to a lot more people getting shot at in the US compared to Europe. | ||
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Yurie
12006 Posts
On April 01 2020 18:05 schaf wrote: The higher number of ICUs might also be due to a lot more people getting shot at in the US compared to Europe. Car accidents with injuries and deaths 2-3 times most of Europe figures as well. Though not sure how impactful that is. https://data.oecd.org/transport/road-accidents.htm | ||
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Simberto
Germany11722 Posts
On April 01 2020 14:40 Starlightsun wrote: Administration rolling back auto pollution regulations: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/climate/trump-fuel-economy.amp.html Seems like they're wasting no opportunity to fuck over the environment while attention is focused on corona virus. Well of course. What is the most important thing to do during a crisis? Ruin the environment! | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7953 Posts
I'm never too optimistic with public opinion, but this might be the wake up call that closes the endless "less state -unless it's the army-, more market" spiral that started with the neoliberal ideology of the 80's. Time will tell. | ||
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farvacola
United States18845 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23591 Posts
On April 01 2020 22:24 farvacola wrote: If I were to place a bet today, I’d wager that Biden will pick Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer to be his VP. Yeah, I noticed that a couple weeks ago. Doesn't feel organic at all though does it? | ||
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Sadist
United States7310 Posts
On April 01 2020 22:24 farvacola wrote: If I were to place a bet today, I’d wager that Biden will pick Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer to be his VP. Im struggling to see how any elected official can leave office to campaign during this. Especially a governor. Its going to take monumental work to get through this. State & local budgets are in shambles until the Fed Govt sorts things out. Unless things are relatively back to normal by the convention I dont see how this happens. | ||
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farvacola
United States18845 Posts
On April 01 2020 22:30 GreenHorizons wrote: Yeah, I noticed that a couple weeks ago. Doesn't feel organic at all though does it? Nope, her track record in Michigan before the ‘rona hit was not very good. And you’re right, Sadist, but I think that’s part of why she may be viewed as a strategic pick. She doesn’t really have to campaign, she can just do the work of a governor while Biden points to her. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On April 01 2020 17:19 Artisreal wrote: the only reason I can see that there are more ICU beds is that ICU patients bring in more revenue. One of the few benefits to the "we love surgery and we love a lot of it" attitude of the US, much of which is profit-driven, is that operating rooms are negative pressure rooms that make great places to care for patients with COVID. The pre-op beds can also be shifted into places to care for normal patients with very little fanfare. One of the first things the major hospital system run by my university did back in February was postpone all elective surgeries indefinitely. That said, even converting all ORs to ICUs in the US is not going to make up for negative pressure room/ICU shortfall, especially in rural communities. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On April 01 2020 17:00 Nebuchad wrote: Well the key is to not stop fighting :p I'm being facetious but imo we are getting a biased picture because of boomers. Their generation's left stopped fighting, for reasons that I can understand but not completely excuse. That played a large part in how the right managed to put its vision in front and, among other things, attack the welfare state so efficiently. It wasn't the case for earlier generations and I don't think it's going to be the case for millenials or zoomers. Plus to some degree there’s a bit of complacency too. The dismantling of aspects of the welfare state is akin to the death by a thousand cuts, so people don’t really think damage is being done or the total system is at threat until it’s almost too late to reverse in a regular state of affairs. I can’t see our generation(s) political views and aspirations changing much at all en masse, just being a more influential bloc and wielding more power as we go down the years. It’s a bit of a myth widely peddled that you grow more conservative as you get older, you tend to remain where you where as society does(n’t) move around you. With a bit of pining for aspects of your youth. My grandfather who just passed this year was a real Old Labour man and remained so until the end. So at least in terms of political positions I’d say the future is reasonably bright, apathy might be a problem of course. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23591 Posts
Hospitals are threatening to fire health-care workers who publicize their working conditions during the coronavirus pandemic -- and have in some cases followed through. Ming Lin, an emergency room physician in Washington state, said he was told Friday he was out of a job because he’d given an interview to a newspaper about a Facebook post detailing what he believed to be inadequate protective equipment and testing. “Hospitals are muzzling nurses and other health-care workers in an attempt to preserve their image,” said Ruth Schubert, a spokeswoman for the Washington State Nurses Association. “It is outrageous.” www.bloomberg.com Amazon also reportedly fired a worker attempting to organize for safe working conditions. An Amazon worker who led a walkout at a New York City facility on Monday has been fired. Chris Smalls, an assistant manager and organizer, learned of his termination as dozens of workers protested against the company’s response to the coronavirus outbreak. “It’s a shame on them,” Smalls told Vice News on Tuesday. “To fire someone after five years for sticking up for people and trying to give them a voice.” Strikers at the JFK8 warehouse in Staten Island demanded Amazon temporarily shut down the large facility for cleaning, after reports of multiple employees testing positive for Covid-19. On Tuesday afternoon New York’s mayor, Bill de Blasio, said he had ordered the city’s human rights commissioner to investigate the dismissal. The workers also demanded more protective gear and hazard pay as they work through the pandemic. www.theguardian.com | ||
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JohnDelaney
Ireland73 Posts
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farvacola
United States18845 Posts
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