Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On July 18 2019 16:27 Biff The Understudy wrote: Remember folks, Trump is not racist and suggesting his supporters are is an outrage, and outrage I tell you. And if you say such a thing you are the racist. Or something.
Oh, and their new rally chant is « Send her back », referring to congresswoman Ilhan Omar. But hey, not racist!
The new thing you're gonna hear alot is that racism is not important and pointing out that Trump and his supporters are racist is just a distraction.
Before there was some level of deniability when it comes to these claims, now they will just have to pretend that the racism is irrelevant.
On July 18 2019 16:27 Biff The Understudy wrote: Remember folks, Trump is not racist and suggesting his supporters are is an outrage, and outrage I tell you. And if you say such a thing you are the racist. Or something.
Oh, and their new rally chant is « Send her back », referring to congresswoman Ilhan Omar. But hey, not racist!
The new thing you're gonna hear alot is that racism is not important and pointing out that Trump and his supporters are racist is just a distraction.
Before there was some level of deniability when it comes to these claims, now they will just have to pretend that the racism is irrelevant.
I’m also waiting for someone here to say that yes but what about the dems and when Obama did this and that, and those are crocodile tears and so on and so forth.
On July 18 2019 06:57 KwarK wrote: There aren’t no go zones in Sweden, that’s a thing Trump made up after watching a documentary on Fox and then confusingly tweeted about as “what happened in Sweden last night” when he meant “what I saw on tv last night, about Sweden”. Nowhere in Sweden is as dangerous as The Warzone (or as the city suggests we call it, the international district) in my US city and The Warzone is 100% safe during the day and has always been fine for me at night.
Also Africa used to be rich and still has vast wealth in natural resources. Colonists went there with guns and plundered it. The primary fear of white supremacists is not that society will fall apart if they lose power, it’s that it won’t. It’s that the institutions they created to abuse and exploit minorities will be used against them.
Africa is poor of their own doing by the widespread adoption of socialism and totalitarianism (not to mention the various sectarian/tribal strife around the continent). Hong Kong has almost no resources, yet, they're a rich and (much more recently) former colony. Same goes with South America generally (e.g. the most market-oriented countries are more well-to-do than the less market oriented and South America is pretty much one giant former-colony like Africa). Until they stop using excuses from over a half-century ago and start taking responsibility for their own plight nothing is going to change.
PS: Natural-resource abundance has poor correlation to societal wealth. Just ask the people who lived in the former USSR (The USSR had the most abundant natural resources in the world at that time).
Norway says hi! How do we fit into world view since we are more socialist than most of Africa and natural resources does not really matter
On July 18 2019 06:57 KwarK wrote: There aren’t no go zones in Sweden, that’s a thing Trump made up after watching a documentary on Fox and then confusingly tweeted about as “what happened in Sweden last night” when he meant “what I saw on tv last night, about Sweden”. Nowhere in Sweden is as dangerous as The Warzone (or as the city suggests we call it, the international district) in my US city and The Warzone is 100% safe during the day and has always been fine for me at night.
Also Africa used to be rich and still has vast wealth in natural resources. Colonists went there with guns and plundered it. The primary fear of white supremacists is not that society will fall apart if they lose power, it’s that it won’t. It’s that the institutions they created to abuse and exploit minorities will be used against them.
Africa is poor of their own doing by the widespread adoption of socialism and totalitarianism (not to mention the various sectarian/tribal strife around the continent). Hong Kong has almost no resources, yet, they're a rich and (much more recently) former colony. Same goes with South America generally (e.g. the most market-oriented countries are more well-to-do than the less market oriented and South America is pretty much one giant former-colony like Africa). Until they stop using excuses from over a half-century ago and start taking responsibility for their own plight nothing is going to change.
PS: Natural-resource abundance has poor correlation to societal wealth. Just ask the people who lived in the former USSR (The USSR had the most abundant natural resources in the world at that time).
Norway says hi! How do we fit into world view since we are more socialist than most of Africa and natural resources does not really matter
What point are you trying to make? That's basically a corruption index. If you compare countries with similar levels of public trust, or even better if you compare US states in your 2nd link, you will notice that once you eliminate the wildly different levels of corruption and unrest between countries, economic freedom is a useless indicator of wealth or development.
On July 18 2019 06:57 KwarK wrote: There aren’t no go zones in Sweden, that’s a thing Trump made up after watching a documentary on Fox and then confusingly tweeted about as “what happened in Sweden last night” when he meant “what I saw on tv last night, about Sweden”. Nowhere in Sweden is as dangerous as The Warzone (or as the city suggests we call it, the international district) in my US city and The Warzone is 100% safe during the day and has always been fine for me at night.
Also Africa used to be rich and still has vast wealth in natural resources. Colonists went there with guns and plundered it. The primary fear of white supremacists is not that society will fall apart if they lose power, it’s that it won’t. It’s that the institutions they created to abuse and exploit minorities will be used against them.
Thats not accurate. Maybe Trump blew things out of proportion by calling them no go zones, but there are problem areas in certain places in Sweden where even the police will advise people against going in there.
Tim Pool, on a interview following his visit mentioned how the police advised him against going into a certain neighborhood of Stockholm. He also interviewed a someone who works in the government there there and they mentioned that crime rates have increased in the problem areas.
However, Pool alleged that he had to be escorted by police out of Rinkeby, a Stockholm suburb, due to purported threats to his safety. Swedish police have disputed Pool's report that police escorted him out, stating "Our understanding is that he didn't receive an escort. However, he followed the police who left the place."[31] The police stated that "When Tim Pool took out a camera and started filming a group of young people they pulled their hoods up and covered their faces and shouted at him to stop filming. The officers then told Tim Pool that it was not wise to stay there in the middle of the square and keep filming.
So there are more crimes in poor areas than in rich ones? Shocking. There are no no-go zones here in Sweden, it's absurd to keep hearing this. There are better and worse neighbourhoods and intergration in some of these has been poor but stop spouting this nonsense please. The police don't advice people from going anywhere, at least during day time.
The police escorted Tim Pool out of one of those problem areas. Is it really that safe an area if the police had to intervene to pull him out stating that several masked people were about to descend upon him?
And scroll to the Sweden section you'll see that these zones are very much real.
Just how violent they are is up in the air. With the mainstream media mostly trying to sweep this under the bus, and yet I keep finding videos talking about stones being thrown at passers by, assaults, attacks on the police in broad daylight, arson etc.
Also you completely ignoring what I said about migrants, this isn't just about poor neighborhoods. Those neighborhoods which are considered problem areas and have the highest level of criminality are the ones which took in migrants.
Oh and if these zones aren't really that bad why did some politicians even float the idea of deploying the army in them?
That was the whole point of my post. If you just open the doors to immigration without any sort of plan for integration and harmonization you get situations like these.
So, when I see situations like these arise in Europe I can understand Trumps desire to protect the border and be tough on immigration, and I don't think having such concerns makes you in any way racist.
Also, on the topic of Norway. Norway isn't socialist, the links Wegandi provided show that its economy is very free/capitalistic. Yes Norway has a ton of social programs but that's not the same as it being socialist. Norway built those off the back of its strong free economy.
If you want further proof listen to, it breaks it down far better then I could:
Also, I strongly recommend to most of you guys to also not only read or listen to the mainstream news, but also follow some independent journalists and political commentators.
How did you find those videos? What about them makes you think they’re reliable sources for anything other than right wing propaganda? Are these the places you’ve looked to in these first six months of taking an interest in US politics?
It's not hard to debunk a myth when nobody claims that myth as truth in the first place...
Nobody thinks Scandinavia are state controlled socialist plan economies. Acting like it's a surprise they use free market principles too. What is this shit
On July 18 2019 06:57 KwarK wrote: There aren’t no go zones in Sweden, that’s a thing Trump made up after watching a documentary on Fox and then confusingly tweeted about as “what happened in Sweden last night” when he meant “what I saw on tv last night, about Sweden”. Nowhere in Sweden is as dangerous as The Warzone (or as the city suggests we call it, the international district) in my US city and The Warzone is 100% safe during the day and has always been fine for me at night.
Also Africa used to be rich and still has vast wealth in natural resources. Colonists went there with guns and plundered it. The primary fear of white supremacists is not that society will fall apart if they lose power, it’s that it won’t. It’s that the institutions they created to abuse and exploit minorities will be used against them.
Thats not accurate. Maybe Trump blew things out of proportion by calling them no go zones, but there are problem areas in certain places in Sweden where even the police will advise people against going in there.
Tim Pool, on a interview following his visit mentioned how the police advised him against going into a certain neighborhood of Stockholm. He also interviewed a someone who works in the government there there and they mentioned that crime rates have increased in the problem areas.
However, Pool alleged that he had to be escorted by police out of Rinkeby, a Stockholm suburb, due to purported threats to his safety. Swedish police have disputed Pool's report that police escorted him out, stating "Our understanding is that he didn't receive an escort. However, he followed the police who left the place."[31] The police stated that "When Tim Pool took out a camera and started filming a group of young people they pulled their hoods up and covered their faces and shouted at him to stop filming. The officers then told Tim Pool that it was not wise to stay there in the middle of the square and keep filming.
So there are more crimes in poor areas than in rich ones? Shocking. There are no no-go zones here in Sweden, it's absurd to keep hearing this. There are better and worse neighbourhoods and intergration in some of these has been poor but stop spouting this nonsense please. The police don't advice people from going anywhere, at least during day time.
The police escorted Tim Pool out of one of those problem areas. Is it really that safe an area if the police had to intervene to pull him out stating that several masked people were about to descend upon him?
And scroll to the Sweden section you'll see that these zones are very much real.
Just how violent they are is up in the air. With the mainstream media mostly trying to sweep this under the bus, and yet I keep finding videos talking about stones being thrown at passers by, assaults, attacks on the police in broad daylight, arson etc.
Also you completely ignoring what I said about migrants, this isn't just about poor neighborhoods. Those neighborhoods which are considered problem areas and have the highest level of criminality are the ones which took in migrants.
Oh and if these zones aren't really that bad why did some politicians even float the idea of deploying the army in them?
That was the whole point of my post. If you just open the doors to immigration without any sort of plan for integration and harmonization you get situations like these.
So, when I see situations like these arise in Europe I can understand Trumps desire to protect the border and be tough on immigration, and I don't think having such concerns makes you in any way racist.
Also, on the topic of Norway. Norway isn't socialist, the links Wegandi provided show that its economy is very free/capitalistic. Yes Norway has a ton of social programs but that's not the same as it being socialist. Norway built those off the back of its strong free economy.
Also, I strongly recommend to most of you guys to also not only read or listen to the mainstream news, but also follow some independent journalists and political commentators.
You should be embarrassed for posting such drivel. Some of what you have written are just outright lies. For instance you write that if you go to your wiki link and and scroll to the Sweden, we will see that these zones are very much real, but in actuality your wiki link contradicts you. As does Tim Pool's account of it on his wiki page.
What you didn't think anybody would read the wiki link or something, so you are just free to lie?
Serious question: is there an objective metric we can use to compare Brietbart and RT with, say, WSJ or NYT and say “based off this comparison, these former 2 are bullshit and these latter 2 are respectable”?
Is it the number of stories/articles written that end up being factually proven untrue? Is it the objective quality of the written articles?
On July 18 2019 06:57 KwarK wrote: There aren’t no go zones in Sweden, that’s a thing Trump made up after watching a documentary on Fox and then confusingly tweeted about as “what happened in Sweden last night” when he meant “what I saw on tv last night, about Sweden”. Nowhere in Sweden is as dangerous as The Warzone (or as the city suggests we call it, the international district) in my US city and The Warzone is 100% safe during the day and has always been fine for me at night.
Also Africa used to be rich and still has vast wealth in natural resources. Colonists went there with guns and plundered it. The primary fear of white supremacists is not that society will fall apart if they lose power, it’s that it won’t. It’s that the institutions they created to abuse and exploit minorities will be used against them.
Africa is poor of their own doing by the widespread adoption of socialism and totalitarianism (not to mention the various sectarian/tribal strife around the continent). Hong Kong has almost no resources, yet, they're a rich and (much more recently) former colony. Same goes with South America generally (e.g. the most market-oriented countries are more well-to-do than the less market oriented and South America is pretty much one giant former-colony like Africa). Until they stop using excuses from over a half-century ago and start taking responsibility for their own plight nothing is going to change.
PS: Natural-resource abundance has poor correlation to societal wealth. Just ask the people who lived in the former USSR (The USSR had the most abundant natural resources in the world at that time).
Norway says hi! How do we fit into world view since we are more socialist than most of Africa and natural resources does not really matter
You are aware that index of economic freedom does not describe the level of socialism in a country? Unless you go hardcore plan driven economy dictated by the state. Norway is still MORE socialist than almost all of Africa.
On July 18 2019 06:57 KwarK wrote: There aren’t no go zones in Sweden, that’s a thing Trump made up after watching a documentary on Fox and then confusingly tweeted about as “what happened in Sweden last night” when he meant “what I saw on tv last night, about Sweden”. Nowhere in Sweden is as dangerous as The Warzone (or as the city suggests we call it, the international district) in my US city and The Warzone is 100% safe during the day and has always been fine for me at night.
Also Africa used to be rich and still has vast wealth in natural resources. Colonists went there with guns and plundered it. The primary fear of white supremacists is not that society will fall apart if they lose power, it’s that it won’t. It’s that the institutions they created to abuse and exploit minorities will be used against them.
Thats not accurate. Maybe Trump blew things out of proportion by calling them no go zones, but there are problem areas in certain places in Sweden where even the police will advise people against going in there.
Tim Pool, on a interview following his visit mentioned how the police advised him against going into a certain neighborhood of Stockholm. He also interviewed a someone who works in the government there there and they mentioned that crime rates have increased in the problem areas.
However, Pool alleged that he had to be escorted by police out of Rinkeby, a Stockholm suburb, due to purported threats to his safety. Swedish police have disputed Pool's report that police escorted him out, stating "Our understanding is that he didn't receive an escort. However, he followed the police who left the place."[31] The police stated that "When Tim Pool took out a camera and started filming a group of young people they pulled their hoods up and covered their faces and shouted at him to stop filming. The officers then told Tim Pool that it was not wise to stay there in the middle of the square and keep filming.
So there are more crimes in poor areas than in rich ones? Shocking. There are no no-go zones here in Sweden, it's absurd to keep hearing this. There are better and worse neighbourhoods and intergration in some of these has been poor but stop spouting this nonsense please. The police don't advice people from going anywhere, at least during day time.
The police escorted Tim Pool out of one of those problem areas. Is it really that safe an area if the police had to intervene to pull him out stating that several masked people were about to descend upon him?
And scroll to the Sweden section you'll see that these zones are very much real.
Just how violent they are is up in the air. With the mainstream media mostly trying to sweep this under the bus, and yet I keep finding videos talking about stones being thrown at passers by, assaults, attacks on the police in broad daylight, arson etc.
Also you completely ignoring what I said about migrants, this isn't just about poor neighborhoods. Those neighborhoods which are considered problem areas and have the highest level of criminality are the ones which took in migrants.
Oh and if these zones aren't really that bad why did some politicians even float the idea of deploying the army in them?
That was the whole point of my post. If you just open the doors to immigration without any sort of plan for integration and harmonization you get situations like these.
So, when I see situations like these arise in Europe I can understand Trumps desire to protect the border and be tough on immigration, and I don't think having such concerns makes you in any way racist.
Also, on the topic of Norway. Norway isn't socialist, the links Wegandi provided show that its economy is very free/capitalistic. Yes Norway has a ton of social programs but that's not the same as it being socialist. Norway built those off the back of its strong free economy.
Also, I strongly recommend to most of you guys to also not only read or listen to the mainstream news, but also follow some independent journalists and political commentators.
Nowhere was it stated Norway was socialist. It was stated to be more socialist than most of Africa.
Also on the no-go zones, there are no no-go zones in sweden and I have been a lot more afraid for my life in US than I have ever been anywhere in Sweden.
Some urban areas in Sweden have been called no-go zones. The Swedish government states that "no-go zones", where "criminality and gangs have taken over and where the emergency services do not dare to go" do not exist. They acknowledge that there are areas "increasingly marred by crime, social unrest and insecurity".[69][70][71]
A 2016 report from the Swedish Police mapped 53 "exposed" areas (Utsatta områden) and 15 "particularly exposed" areas. An "exposed area" was defined as an area with low socioeconomic status and high crime. A "particularly exposed" area was defined as an area nearby to an "exposed area" the inhabitants of which demonstrated the following qualities:
Unwillingness to participate in legal proceedings Hindrance of Swedish police operations Parallel social structure Violent extremism Swedish police protocol differs for working in these areas. For example, the police bring certain equipment and work in pairs when in a "particularly exposed area".[72]
In a 2017 interview with the conservative opinion magazine Weekly Standard's Paulina Neuding [sv], Gordon Grattidge, the head of the Swedish ambulance drivers' union, stated that there were some areas too dangerous for rescue workers to enter without police protection, using the English term "no-go zones" to describe them.[73][74][75]
In March 2015, journalist Henrik Höjer discussed the rise of criminality, especially organized crime, in various neighborhoods within Sweden since the mid-1990s, especially in the city of Malmö. He interviewed a police officer and task force chief who referred to such areas as "no go areas" and wrote that gangs like to lay claim to an area by throwing stones at mailmen, police, firefighters and ambulances who enter the area.[76]
In February 2016, a news crew for Australia's 60 Minutes working with anti-immigration activist Jan Sjunnesson[77][78] reported having come under attack, including allegedly having stones thrown on them and a car running over the foot of a cameraman who was trying to prevent it from leaving in the immigrant-dominated district of Rinkeby of Stockholm.[79] 60 Minutes published the video, on which reporter Liz Hayes says "there are now 55 declared no-go zones in Sweden."
I did bold one part though about ambulance workers being afraid to go into some of the problem areas without police protection.
Now here is a copy from Tim's wiki. "However, Pool alleged that he had to be escorted by police out of Rinkeby, a Stockholm suburb, due to purported threats to his safety."
So, the problem areas do exist. What I argued next was the magnitude to which they are a problem. The mainstream media is trying to make it seem like its not a huge deal however you keep seeing news to the contrary.
Politico, The Guardian are left leaning sites btw and the BBC is centrist and even they covered some news pieces about crime in the problem areas and attribute them to a large number of migrants.
A few of them cite an increase in crime in the last few years and on the wiki page for the grenade attacks you can see that the number of grenade attacks increased in the last few years, the period of time when Europe took on more migrants.
Where there is smoke there is fire. Simply labeling a point of view you disagree with as right wing, and trying to demonize right wingers for speaking up is not going to make the situation better, it just makes it worse.
I'm not ashamed in any way shape or form of what I've said, I've done the research, looked for the stories and watched/listened to videos.
EPT
