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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On July 18 2019 12:19 Mohdoo wrote:
pretty hilarious how there is zero mention of this trainwreck impeachment vote on /r/politics. Both that and T_D live in bizarre bubbles
It really was a train wreck too. There probably never were or will be even enough Democrat votes to push impeachment to the Senate.
The vote — 332 to 95, with one lawmaker voting "present" — marked the first time the Democratic-controlled chamber had weighed in on impeachment, an issue that has created a widening schism within the party. Progressive newcomers and several 2020 candidates have pushed for impeachment proceedings, but the House leadership, including Speaker Nancy Pelosi, has been resistant. All Republicans joined with 137 Democrats and the lone independent, Justin Amash, to table the resolution. Pelosi, D-Calif., said Wednesday morning that she does not support the resolution. + Show Spoiler +A recent NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll found that enthusiasm for impeachment may be waning: The July survey found 21 percent of registered voters say that there is enough evidence for Congress to begin impeachment hearings now. In June, 27 percent in the poll the same thing, a 6-point drop in one month — though that survey was of Americans, not registered voters
www.nbcnews.com
Hard to see what Democrats are even worth at this point.
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On July 18 2019 13:20 ShambhalaWar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2019 11:35 IgnE wrote:On July 18 2019 09:42 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 18 2019 06:57 GreenHorizons wrote:I'm reminded of this article on why white (and/or white adjacent) people think there is "anti-whiteness" everywhere they look. “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” Equality can feel like oppression. But it’s not. What you’re feeling is just the discomfort of losing a little bit of your privilege — the same discomfort that an only child feels when she goes to preschool and discovers that there are other kids who want to play with the same toys as she does. All this anger we see from people screaming “All Lives Matter” in response to black protesters at rallies. All this anger we see from people insisting that their “religious freedom” is being infringed because a gay couple wants to get married . All these people angry about immigrants, angry about Muslims, angry about “Happy Holidays,” angry about not being able to say bigoted things without being called a bigot…+ Show Spoiler +They all basically boil down to people who have grown accustomed to walking straight at other folks, and expecting them to move. So when “those people” in their path don’t move — when those people start wondering, “Why am I always moving out of this guy’s way?”; when those people start asking themselves, “What if I didn’t move? What if I just kept walking too?”; when those people start believing that they have every bit as much right to that aisle as anyone else — it can seem like their rights are being taken away. They even see anti-white racism, divisive, fight-starting in capitalization while seeing white supremacist propaganda as conciliatory lol. You nailed it dude... I 1,000,000% agree with this.I as that as a milk-toast, Scotts-Irish, white ass American man. About 8 years ago I was confronted with the reality of my privilege and I did not want to accept it, but eventually did, and it opened my fucking eyes. “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” Equality requires the privileged to relinquish some of their power, most are unwilling to do that. When I was a little kid growing up on the east coast in the semi-south I used to think my black friends would lie about all the horrible shit that happened to them, I thought, "why do they make this stuff up?" Turns out I just never had to deal with it, so it was invisible to me... that is privilege. What power have you relinquished in order to work towards equality? I would say the first step, and probably the most important is simply acknowledging that I have privilege, and giving up my ignorance about my privilege. The nature of privilege is ignorance, the privileged people don't have to consider the problems other people do. So in regard to racial privilege, in acknowledging it I would think there comes some degree of commitment in calling it out when I see rather than just letting it slide because, "I'm white and it doesn't affect me." If I'm playing a game a CSGO and I hear the N word (happens all the time), rather than just be ok with that, I can at the very least confront them on it, and report the account. There are many different versions of that... for example is I see a nazi symbol written on a wall, I can get a pen and mark over it. Donate to a charity organization that combats racial inequality, march for black lives matter. I haven't done these latter two things, but for a lot of my black friends growing up I apologized for not believe them when we were kids, and tell them I believe them now. Small steps, but if all privileged people did that, the world would change.
So the greatest sacrifice of real power you have made is in giving up your ignorance and occasionally chastising people who use the N word? I thought there was more to privilege than that. Relinquishing power is supposed to be so painful that people don't want to do it.
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On July 18 2019 08:34 JimmiC wrote:
It is very strange that in the US so many union and blue collar workers support the right basically everywhere else this is the lefts stronghold. Trump has basically weaponized indemnity politics to get people to vote against their own economic interests just so that they don’t have to have wealthier people tell them how good they actually have it.
Trump promised to introduce tariffs on imported goods and bring manufacturing jobs back.Hence the union support.As I have said many times illegal immigrants compete for many lower skilled blue collar working class type jobs, bringing wages down.Supply/demand.
Three years later and people are still trying to work it out? It’s not rocket science people.
Wouldn’t people voting against their interests be unionised coal miners voting for the candidate that wanted to ‘end coal’? You tell me dude.
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United States43205 Posts
On July 18 2019 14:30 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2019 08:34 JimmiC wrote:
It is very strange that in the US so many union and blue collar workers support the right basically everywhere else this is the lefts stronghold. Trump has basically weaponized indemnity politics to get people to vote against their own economic interests just so that they don’t have to have wealthier people tell them how good they actually have it. Trump promised to introduce tariffs on imported goods and bring manufacturing jobs back.Hence the union support.As I have said many times illegal immigrants compete for many lower skilled blue collar working class type jobs, bringing wages down.Supply/demand. Three years later and people are still trying to work it out? It’s not rocket science people. Wouldn’t people voting against their interests be unionised coal miners voting for the candidate that wanted to ‘end coal’? You tell me dude.
I take it you’re unfamiliar with I9 verification. Illegal immigrants don’t just show up at the Ford assembly line and ask for a job. Factory jobs mean paperwork. The competition isn’t cheap labour coming into the US, it’s jobs going where the labour is.
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On July 18 2019 06:57 KwarK wrote:
There aren’t no go zones in Sweden, that’s a thing Trump made up after watching a documentary on Fox and then confusingly tweeted about as “what happened in Sweden last night” when he meant “what I saw on tv last night, about Sweden”. Nowhere in Sweden is as dangerous as The Warzone (or as the city suggests we call it, the international district) in my US city and The Warzone is 100% safe during the day and has always been fine for me at night.
Also Africa used to be rich and still has vast wealth in natural resources. Colonists went there with guns and plundered it. The primary fear of white supremacists is not that society will fall apart if they lose power, it’s that it won’t. It’s that the institutions they created to abuse and exploit minorities will be used against them.
Africa is poor of their own doing by the widespread adoption of socialism and totalitarianism (not to mention the various sectarian/tribal strife around the continent). Hong Kong has almost no resources, yet, they're a rich and (much more recently) former colony. Same goes with South America generally (e.g. the most market-oriented countries are more well-to-do than the less market oriented and South America is pretty much one giant former-colony like Africa). Until they stop using excuses from over a half-century ago and start taking responsibility for their own plight nothing is going to change.
PS: Natural-resource abundance has poor correlation to societal wealth. Just ask the people who lived in the former USSR (The USSR had the most abundant natural resources in the world at that time).
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Africa is poor of their own doing by the widespread adoption of socialism
wow... where did you hear this?
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On July 18 2019 14:35 GreenHorizons wrote:wow... where did you hear this?
I'm not interested in having a conversation with you because you're not willing to have a fruitful fact based back and forth.
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United States43205 Posts
On July 18 2019 14:35 GreenHorizons wrote:wow... where did you hear this?
I think he’s alluding to the time the Soviet Union and the US decided to start civil wars all over the continent because it’s better to set fire to it than to let the other have it.
The Soviet Union has socialist in their name so if we really want to stretch things then we can say that socialists were involved in setting the conflagration.
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On July 18 2019 14:35 GreenHorizons wrote:wow... where did you hear this?
It is an amazing interpretation of history.
Also, wasn't Somalia the libertarian paradise a few years back, with the most phones per person or something like that. I distinctly remember conversations to that regard on this forum.
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On July 18 2019 14:38 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2019 14:35 GreenHorizons wrote:Africa is poor of their own doing by the widespread adoption of socialism wow... where did you hear this? I think he’s alluding to the time the Soviet Union and the US decided to start civil wars all over the continent because it’s better to set fire to it than to let the other have it. The Soviet Union has socialist in their name so if we really want to stretch things then we can say that socialists were involved in setting the conflagration.
Joseph Stalin was in Our Northern Neighbour with Franklin Delano Roosevelt who was in The Life and Times of Hank Greenberg with Walter Matthau and he was in JFK with Kevin Bacon and Djimon Hounsou was in Elephant White with Kevin Bacon so I guess it checks out.
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On July 17 2019 11:08 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2019 11:03 farvacola wrote:
America is their home, which is why it’s blatant racism. Nice try though. As everyone except Nettles understands. The only thing foreign about AOC is her skin and her name, and that’s only if you believe that the US should be solely populated by Northern Europeans.
It’s more about doing what’s best for your local community.
Opposing the Amazon campus in New York that would have created 25,000 jobs.People there needed those jobs.
She’s too far left, good to see the impeachment vote collapse in the house.Dems in total disarray.
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Ya'll are fucking stuck in the early 1900s, lmao. How long are you going to peddle those excuses for? Couple millennia? How do you explain Hong Kong, Singapore, etc. They could have went all woe is me, adopted socialism, fought amongst each other, etc., but they didn't. For the past 70+ years, Africa has been poor, not because of past colonialism, but because of their own making (of which I all ready mentioned).
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United States43205 Posts
On July 18 2019 14:47 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2019 11:08 KwarK wrote:On July 17 2019 11:03 farvacola wrote:
America is their home, which is why it’s blatant racism. Nice try though. As everyone except Nettles understands. The only thing foreign about AOC is her skin and her name, and that’s only if you believe that the US should be solely populated by Northern Europeans. It’s more about doing what’s best for your local community.
So you think she should go home to the country of her birth and run for office there?
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United States43205 Posts
On July 18 2019 14:48 Wegandi wrote:
Ya'll are fucking stuck in the early 1900s, lmao. How long are you going to peddle those excuses for? Couple millennia? How do you explain Hong Kong, Singapore, etc. They could have went all woe is me, adopted socialism, fought amongst each other, etc., but they didn't. For the past 70+ years, Africa has been poor, not because of past colonialism, but because of their own making (of which I all ready mentioned).
You're clearly capable of reading. To what would you attribute your lifelong aversion to reading history books?
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On July 18 2019 14:48 Wegandi wrote:
Ya'll are fucking stuck in the early 1900s, lmao. How long are you going to peddle those excuses for? Couple millennia? How do you explain Hong Kong, Singapore, etc. They could have went all woe is me, adopted socialism, fought amongst each other, etc., but they didn't. For the past 70+ years, Africa has been poor, not because of past colonialism, but because of their own making (of which I all ready mentioned).
I am far from an expert on African or south-east Asian history but I am fairly sure that Hong Kong and Singapore have historically benefited heavily from being on major trading routes, and from being treated as trade and economic hubs by their foreign colonisers, rather than being plundered for natural resources, etc. by their colonisers (as iirc much of Africa has been).
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On July 18 2019 07:29 Destructicon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2019 06:57 KwarK wrote:
There aren’t no go zones in Sweden, that’s a thing Trump made up after watching a documentary on Fox and then confusingly tweeted about as “what happened in Sweden last night” when he meant “what I saw on tv last night, about Sweden”. Nowhere in Sweden is as dangerous as The Warzone (or as the city suggests we call it, the international district) in my US city and The Warzone is 100% safe during the day and has always been fine for me at night.
Also Africa used to be rich and still has vast wealth in natural resources. Colonists went there with guns and plundered it. The primary fear of white supremacists is not that society will fall apart if they lose power, it’s that it won’t. It’s that the institutions they created to abuse and exploit minorities will be used against them. Thats not accurate. Maybe Trump blew things out of proportion by calling them no go zones, but there are problem areas in certain places in Sweden where even the police will advise people against going in there. Tim Pool, on a interview following his visit mentioned how the police advised him against going into a certain neighborhood of Stockholm. He also interviewed a someone who works in the government there there and they mentioned that crime rates have increased in the problem areas.
However, Pool alleged that he had to be escorted by police out of Rinkeby, a Stockholm suburb, due to purported threats to his safety. Swedish police have disputed Pool's report that police escorted him out, stating "Our understanding is that he didn't receive an escort. However, he followed the police who left the place."[31] The police stated that "When Tim Pool took out a camera and started filming a group of young people they pulled their hoods up and covered their faces and shouted at him to stop filming. The officers then told Tim Pool that it was not wise to stay there in the middle of the square and keep filming.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Pool
So there are more crimes in poor areas than in rich ones? Shocking. There are no no-go zones here in Sweden, it's absurd to keep hearing this. There are better and worse neighbourhoods and intergration in some of these has been poor but stop spouting this nonsense please. The police don't advice people from going anywhere, at least during day time.
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On July 18 2019 13:46 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2019 13:20 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 18 2019 11:35 IgnE wrote:On July 18 2019 09:42 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 18 2019 06:57 GreenHorizons wrote:I'm reminded of this article on why white (and/or white adjacent) people think there is "anti-whiteness" everywhere they look. “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” Equality can feel like oppression. But it’s not. What you’re feeling is just the discomfort of losing a little bit of your privilege — the same discomfort that an only child feels when she goes to preschool and discovers that there are other kids who want to play with the same toys as she does. All this anger we see from people screaming “All Lives Matter” in response to black protesters at rallies. All this anger we see from people insisting that their “religious freedom” is being infringed because a gay couple wants to get married . All these people angry about immigrants, angry about Muslims, angry about “Happy Holidays,” angry about not being able to say bigoted things without being called a bigot…+ Show Spoiler +They all basically boil down to people who have grown accustomed to walking straight at other folks, and expecting them to move. So when “those people” in their path don’t move — when those people start wondering, “Why am I always moving out of this guy’s way?”; when those people start asking themselves, “What if I didn’t move? What if I just kept walking too?”; when those people start believing that they have every bit as much right to that aisle as anyone else — it can seem like their rights are being taken away. They even see anti-white racism, divisive, fight-starting in capitalization while seeing white supremacist propaganda as conciliatory lol. You nailed it dude... I 1,000,000% agree with this.I as that as a milk-toast, Scotts-Irish, white ass American man. About 8 years ago I was confronted with the reality of my privilege and I did not want to accept it, but eventually did, and it opened my fucking eyes. “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” Equality requires the privileged to relinquish some of their power, most are unwilling to do that. When I was a little kid growing up on the east coast in the semi-south I used to think my black friends would lie about all the horrible shit that happened to them, I thought, "why do they make this stuff up?" Turns out I just never had to deal with it, so it was invisible to me... that is privilege. What power have you relinquished in order to work towards equality? I would say the first step, and probably the most important is simply acknowledging that I have privilege, and giving up my ignorance about my privilege. The nature of privilege is ignorance, the privileged people don't have to consider the problems other people do. So in regard to racial privilege, in acknowledging it I would think there comes some degree of commitment in calling it out when I see rather than just letting it slide because, "I'm white and it doesn't affect me." If I'm playing a game a CSGO and I hear the N word (happens all the time), rather than just be ok with that, I can at the very least confront them on it, and report the account. There are many different versions of that... for example is I see a nazi symbol written on a wall, I can get a pen and mark over it. Donate to a charity organization that combats racial inequality, march for black lives matter. I haven't done these latter two things, but for a lot of my black friends growing up I apologized for not believe them when we were kids, and tell them I believe them now. Small steps, but if all privileged people did that, the world would change. I thought there was more to privilege than that.
You don't sound like someone who's given much of any thought to the subject.
What's the point of your post? Are you actually curious about my experience or just want something to rail against?
The post GH made that I quoted, you sound exactly like the type of person that post describes. Equality feels like oppression for you, that true for you or you just never even gave it a thought?
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On July 18 2019 14:48 Wegandi wrote:
Ya'll are fucking stuck in the early 1900s, lmao. How long are you going to peddle those excuses for? Couple millennia? How do you explain Hong Kong, Singapore, etc. They could have went all woe is me, adopted socialism, fought amongst each other, etc., but they didn't. For the past 70+ years, Africa has been poor, not because of past colonialism, but because of their own making (of which I all ready mentioned).
This is breathtakingly ignorant.
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On July 18 2019 14:34 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2019 06:57 KwarK wrote:
There aren’t no go zones in Sweden, that’s a thing Trump made up after watching a documentary on Fox and then confusingly tweeted about as “what happened in Sweden last night” when he meant “what I saw on tv last night, about Sweden”. Nowhere in Sweden is as dangerous as The Warzone (or as the city suggests we call it, the international district) in my US city and The Warzone is 100% safe during the day and has always been fine for me at night.
Also Africa used to be rich and still has vast wealth in natural resources. Colonists went there with guns and plundered it. The primary fear of white supremacists is not that society will fall apart if they lose power, it’s that it won’t. It’s that the institutions they created to abuse and exploit minorities will be used against them. Africa is poor of their own doing by the widespread adoption of socialism and totalitarianism (not to mention the various sectarian/tribal strife around the continent). Hong Kong has almost no resources, yet, they're a rich and (much more recently) former colony. Same goes with South America generally (e.g. the most market-oriented countries are more well-to-do than the less market oriented and South America is pretty much one giant former-colony like Africa). Until they stop using excuses from over a half-century ago and start taking responsibility for their own plight nothing is going to change. PS: Natural-resource abundance has poor correlation to societal wealth. Just ask the people who lived in the former USSR (The USSR had the most abundant natural resources in the world at that time).
Norway says hi! How do we fit into world view since we are more socialist than most of Africa and natural resources does not really matter
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Remember folks, Trump is not racist and suggesting his supporters are is an outrage, and outrage I tell you. And if you say such a thing you are the racist. Or something.
Oh, and their new rally chant is « Send her back », referring to congresswoman Ilhan Omar. But hey, not racist!
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EPT
