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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On June 13 2019 23:56 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2019 23:38 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2019 23:15 Neneu wrote:On June 13 2019 22:39 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2019 22:31 Nouar wrote:On June 13 2019 08:10 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2019 07:30 xDaunt wrote:On June 13 2019 07:25 Doodsmack wrote:On June 13 2019 06:56 xDaunt wrote:I've made previous posts about Trump's strategy with his trade war with China and specifically, his goal of leveraging American economic power and relations to brutalize China's economy and slow, if not halt, its ascendance as a global power, all while boosting domestic investment and output that had previously been going to China. The true harm to China from Trump's tariffs is starting to manifest itself now as multinational supply chains are beginning to shift out of China. TOKYO— Nintendo Co. is shifting some production of its Switch videogame console to Southeast Asia from China to limit the impact of possible U.S. tariffs on Chinese-made electronics, said people who work on Nintendo’s supply chain.
It is another example of manufacturers adapting to the tariff threat. Taiwan’s Foxconn Technology Group said Tuesday that it was ready to move assembly of Apple Inc.’s iPhones out of China if necessary, and Japan’s Sharp Corp. , which is controlled by Foxconn, said last week that it planned to move production of personal computers to Taiwan or Vietnam.
Kyoto-based Nintendo has traditionally relied on the Chinese factories of contract assembly companies to make its videogame hardware. That includes the Switch console, introduced in 2017.
The Wall Street Journal reported in March that Nintendo planned to update the Switch this year with two new models. One is set to look similar to the current model with beefed-up components, while the other is expected to be a less-expensive model with a new look.
People involved in the supply chain said production in Southeast Asia has started for the Switch, including the current type and the two new models, suggesting Nintendo is getting ready to introduce them soon. They didn’t give specific volume figures but said Nintendo wanted to have enough units to sell in the U.S., the largest market for videogame consoles, when the new products go on the market. Source. Looking back at the numerous trips that Trump has taken to Western pacific and Southeast Asian countries over the past two years, it is obvious that Trump has been laying the groundwork for this for a while. He's been preparing all of these countries and their businesses for a huge opportunity to steal business from China once the tariffs came into effect. This is why China is now threatening businesses that are considering redeploying operations outside of China and has otherwise been treating the trade war as an existential threat. They know that they're about to suffer a lot of economic pain. I can see how this harms China, but it doesn't bring jobs or investment back to the US. Instead the jobs go to the next cheap-labor country in line (of which there are many). What Trump is doing is making China a far riskier proposition for capital investment, thereby causing businesses to look elsewhere for setting up shop. Not all of the business will relocate to the US. It's going to go to a variety of places. But knocking off China is paramount because they're the big cheaters globally. Even if the investment dollars go somewhere other than the US, the US still wins because 1) China is harmed, and 2) US consumers won't eat the tariffs on goods from China. Yeah I'm fully on board with this. No matter how you look at it, China represents a level of government control that sends shivers down my spine. In many ways, I see China as a bit of a cultural climate change. If China were ever to topple the US as the world's #1, I truly do think we'd be looking at dystopia. Every indication is that China will only become more and more oppressive. The idea of China's influence continuing to slowly grow scares me and I fully support anything that makes China's 100 year plan look worse. From the rest of the world's point of view, the US has already been doing really shitty things by leveraging its political and legal power for ages. For exemple by threatening embargos or unwarranted huge fines on EU companies, only to have a US company with insider knowledge and buy them at a cheaper price, while impying that the fines might disappear after the buyout (skewing the competition). https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/02/behind-ges-takeover-of-alstom-energy/Jean-Michel Quatrepoint highlights that, during the DoJ pursuit of Alstom, GE itself had in its employ around thirty former DoJ functionaries. The Wall Street Journal reported in February 2015 that GE had seen all the documentation regarding DoJ litigation against Alstom. What a coincidence! With all this legal muscle and insider knowledge, no-one in GE sought to disabuse Alstom heavies that the latter’s hope that the DoJ would cease its pursuit or that GE would pay a DoJ-inflicted penalty wasn’t going to happen.
Quatrepoint also notes that at least five companies known to be pursued by the DoJ have been snapped up by GE – Invision (US, 2004), Ionics (US, 2005), Amersham (UK, 2004), Nycomed (Norway, 2004) and Vetco Gray (UK, 2007). GE was well primed to pick up Alstom.
Moreover, GE was readily able to come up with the do-re-mi for the Alstom purchase because of its huge tax-evading cache offshore, courtesy of official tolerance. GE’s CEO since 2001, Jeffrey Immelt, pursued tax evasion as a specialist arm of GE’s activities. Quatrepoint notes that the relevant division of GE, under a former US Treasury specialist (what a coincidence!), employed around 950 staff. Quatrepoint also notes that, by end of 2012, GE had accumulated $108 billion offshore. Between 2002 and 2011, GE generated $80 billion in gross profits, but paid only $1.4 billion to the US exchequer. Taxes paid in other countries were negligible. Unfair trade practice and overall bullying of IP and other worldwide actors have been rampant for a long time, so I really don't see how China and its political involvment in commerce should trouble the rest of the world. Only the US, since it will have to compete with another bully. It's not a matter of "either being an asshole or not being an asshole". We can look at the details. As an example, look at this: https://vimeo.com/44078865This is not something you'd ever see in the US. I could put a big sign on my head that says "the US killed a ton of civilians last year and we are war criminals" and nothing would happen to me unless one of the creepy military militiaa wannabes got salty. I could sit right outside the white House saying we kill women and children and I could go home that night knowing I wouldn't disappear. I am not sure how trading less and having less cultural exchanges with a country will make it less authoritarian. If so, you should have stopped trading with Saudi Arabia a long time ago. It is not a valid reason for a trade war. When 2 companies trade, they both benefit, usually. Whether directly or indirectly. By trading with China, we help China. I want us to help China 0% because I see China as a ticking time bomb of cultural/social destruction. China sees no limit to its eventual size and influence. When I look at the current state of both countries, as evidenced by the video I linked, there is no question which side I support. The US also has a wildly different history which makes us a lot more skeptical of our leaders than China. China has "shut up and obey the government, for the good of China" built into its culture. Their support is significantly less wavering than our own. So they are not only more oppressive but they have more support from their own citizens. How do you know? I'm sure in the '80s to ousiders Eastern European communist parties appeared wildly supported by the populace, winning elections with 100% of the vote and all that.
Chinese international students in American universities are generally freakishly pro-china to the point of numerous cases of violence against people who identify as being from Hong Kong.
Not a huge sample size, but I don't think it's fair to assume they are actually woke or whatever. I think you are underestimating China's brainwashing efforts. Rich, educated people lose their minds when someone says "I'm from Hong Kong".
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On June 14 2019 00:38 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2019 23:56 Dan HH wrote:On June 13 2019 23:38 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2019 23:15 Neneu wrote:On June 13 2019 22:39 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2019 22:31 Nouar wrote:On June 13 2019 08:10 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2019 07:30 xDaunt wrote:On June 13 2019 07:25 Doodsmack wrote:On June 13 2019 06:56 xDaunt wrote:I've made previous posts about Trump's strategy with his trade war with China and specifically, his goal of leveraging American economic power and relations to brutalize China's economy and slow, if not halt, its ascendance as a global power, all while boosting domestic investment and output that had previously been going to China. The true harm to China from Trump's tariffs is starting to manifest itself now as multinational supply chains are beginning to shift out of China. [quote] Source. Looking back at the numerous trips that Trump has taken to Western pacific and Southeast Asian countries over the past two years, it is obvious that Trump has been laying the groundwork for this for a while. He's been preparing all of these countries and their businesses for a huge opportunity to steal business from China once the tariffs came into effect. This is why China is now threatening businesses that are considering redeploying operations outside of China and has otherwise been treating the trade war as an existential threat. They know that they're about to suffer a lot of economic pain. I can see how this harms China, but it doesn't bring jobs or investment back to the US. Instead the jobs go to the next cheap-labor country in line (of which there are many). What Trump is doing is making China a far riskier proposition for capital investment, thereby causing businesses to look elsewhere for setting up shop. Not all of the business will relocate to the US. It's going to go to a variety of places. But knocking off China is paramount because they're the big cheaters globally. Even if the investment dollars go somewhere other than the US, the US still wins because 1) China is harmed, and 2) US consumers won't eat the tariffs on goods from China. Yeah I'm fully on board with this. No matter how you look at it, China represents a level of government control that sends shivers down my spine. In many ways, I see China as a bit of a cultural climate change. If China were ever to topple the US as the world's #1, I truly do think we'd be looking at dystopia. Every indication is that China will only become more and more oppressive. The idea of China's influence continuing to slowly grow scares me and I fully support anything that makes China's 100 year plan look worse. From the rest of the world's point of view, the US has already been doing really shitty things by leveraging its political and legal power for ages. For exemple by threatening embargos or unwarranted huge fines on EU companies, only to have a US company with insider knowledge and buy them at a cheaper price, while impying that the fines might disappear after the buyout (skewing the competition). https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/02/behind-ges-takeover-of-alstom-energy/Jean-Michel Quatrepoint highlights that, during the DoJ pursuit of Alstom, GE itself had in its employ around thirty former DoJ functionaries. The Wall Street Journal reported in February 2015 that GE had seen all the documentation regarding DoJ litigation against Alstom. What a coincidence! With all this legal muscle and insider knowledge, no-one in GE sought to disabuse Alstom heavies that the latter’s hope that the DoJ would cease its pursuit or that GE would pay a DoJ-inflicted penalty wasn’t going to happen.
Quatrepoint also notes that at least five companies known to be pursued by the DoJ have been snapped up by GE – Invision (US, 2004), Ionics (US, 2005), Amersham (UK, 2004), Nycomed (Norway, 2004) and Vetco Gray (UK, 2007). GE was well primed to pick up Alstom.
Moreover, GE was readily able to come up with the do-re-mi for the Alstom purchase because of its huge tax-evading cache offshore, courtesy of official tolerance. GE’s CEO since 2001, Jeffrey Immelt, pursued tax evasion as a specialist arm of GE’s activities. Quatrepoint notes that the relevant division of GE, under a former US Treasury specialist (what a coincidence!), employed around 950 staff. Quatrepoint also notes that, by end of 2012, GE had accumulated $108 billion offshore. Between 2002 and 2011, GE generated $80 billion in gross profits, but paid only $1.4 billion to the US exchequer. Taxes paid in other countries were negligible. Unfair trade practice and overall bullying of IP and other worldwide actors have been rampant for a long time, so I really don't see how China and its political involvment in commerce should trouble the rest of the world. Only the US, since it will have to compete with another bully. It's not a matter of "either being an asshole or not being an asshole". We can look at the details. As an example, look at this: https://vimeo.com/44078865This is not something you'd ever see in the US. I could put a big sign on my head that says "the US killed a ton of civilians last year and we are war criminals" and nothing would happen to me unless one of the creepy military militiaa wannabes got salty. I could sit right outside the white House saying we kill women and children and I could go home that night knowing I wouldn't disappear. I am not sure how trading less and having less cultural exchanges with a country will make it less authoritarian. If so, you should have stopped trading with Saudi Arabia a long time ago. It is not a valid reason for a trade war. When 2 companies trade, they both benefit, usually. Whether directly or indirectly. By trading with China, we help China. I want us to help China 0% because I see China as a ticking time bomb of cultural/social destruction. China sees no limit to its eventual size and influence. When I look at the current state of both countries, as evidenced by the video I linked, there is no question which side I support. The US also has a wildly different history which makes us a lot more skeptical of our leaders than China. China has "shut up and obey the government, for the good of China" built into its culture. Their support is significantly less wavering than our own. So they are not only more oppressive but they have more support from their own citizens. How do you know? I'm sure in the '80s to ousiders Eastern European communist parties appeared wildly supported by the populace, winning elections with 100% of the vote and all that. Chinese international students in American universities are generally freakishly pro-china to the point of numerous cases of violence against people who identify as being from Hong Kong. Not a huge sample size, but I don't think it's fair to assume they are actually woke or whatever. I think you are underestimating China's brainwashing efforts. Rich, educated people lose their minds when someone says "I'm from Hong Kong".
China has had over 100 000 "illegal demonstrations" every year since the 90s, despite the dire consequences of being deemed a "counterrevolutionary". People in authoritarian countries aren't as stupid as you guys think.
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United States42956 Posts
On June 13 2019 23:56 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2019 23:38 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2019 23:15 Neneu wrote:On June 13 2019 22:39 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2019 22:31 Nouar wrote:On June 13 2019 08:10 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2019 07:30 xDaunt wrote:On June 13 2019 07:25 Doodsmack wrote:On June 13 2019 06:56 xDaunt wrote:I've made previous posts about Trump's strategy with his trade war with China and specifically, his goal of leveraging American economic power and relations to brutalize China's economy and slow, if not halt, its ascendance as a global power, all while boosting domestic investment and output that had previously been going to China. The true harm to China from Trump's tariffs is starting to manifest itself now as multinational supply chains are beginning to shift out of China. TOKYO— Nintendo Co. is shifting some production of its Switch videogame console to Southeast Asia from China to limit the impact of possible U.S. tariffs on Chinese-made electronics, said people who work on Nintendo’s supply chain.
It is another example of manufacturers adapting to the tariff threat. Taiwan’s Foxconn Technology Group said Tuesday that it was ready to move assembly of Apple Inc.’s iPhones out of China if necessary, and Japan’s Sharp Corp. , which is controlled by Foxconn, said last week that it planned to move production of personal computers to Taiwan or Vietnam.
Kyoto-based Nintendo has traditionally relied on the Chinese factories of contract assembly companies to make its videogame hardware. That includes the Switch console, introduced in 2017.
The Wall Street Journal reported in March that Nintendo planned to update the Switch this year with two new models. One is set to look similar to the current model with beefed-up components, while the other is expected to be a less-expensive model with a new look.
People involved in the supply chain said production in Southeast Asia has started for the Switch, including the current type and the two new models, suggesting Nintendo is getting ready to introduce them soon. They didn’t give specific volume figures but said Nintendo wanted to have enough units to sell in the U.S., the largest market for videogame consoles, when the new products go on the market. Source. Looking back at the numerous trips that Trump has taken to Western pacific and Southeast Asian countries over the past two years, it is obvious that Trump has been laying the groundwork for this for a while. He's been preparing all of these countries and their businesses for a huge opportunity to steal business from China once the tariffs came into effect. This is why China is now threatening businesses that are considering redeploying operations outside of China and has otherwise been treating the trade war as an existential threat. They know that they're about to suffer a lot of economic pain. I can see how this harms China, but it doesn't bring jobs or investment back to the US. Instead the jobs go to the next cheap-labor country in line (of which there are many). What Trump is doing is making China a far riskier proposition for capital investment, thereby causing businesses to look elsewhere for setting up shop. Not all of the business will relocate to the US. It's going to go to a variety of places. But knocking off China is paramount because they're the big cheaters globally. Even if the investment dollars go somewhere other than the US, the US still wins because 1) China is harmed, and 2) US consumers won't eat the tariffs on goods from China. Yeah I'm fully on board with this. No matter how you look at it, China represents a level of government control that sends shivers down my spine. In many ways, I see China as a bit of a cultural climate change. If China were ever to topple the US as the world's #1, I truly do think we'd be looking at dystopia. Every indication is that China will only become more and more oppressive. The idea of China's influence continuing to slowly grow scares me and I fully support anything that makes China's 100 year plan look worse. From the rest of the world's point of view, the US has already been doing really shitty things by leveraging its political and legal power for ages. For exemple by threatening embargos or unwarranted huge fines on EU companies, only to have a US company with insider knowledge and buy them at a cheaper price, while impying that the fines might disappear after the buyout (skewing the competition). https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/02/behind-ges-takeover-of-alstom-energy/Jean-Michel Quatrepoint highlights that, during the DoJ pursuit of Alstom, GE itself had in its employ around thirty former DoJ functionaries. The Wall Street Journal reported in February 2015 that GE had seen all the documentation regarding DoJ litigation against Alstom. What a coincidence! With all this legal muscle and insider knowledge, no-one in GE sought to disabuse Alstom heavies that the latter’s hope that the DoJ would cease its pursuit or that GE would pay a DoJ-inflicted penalty wasn’t going to happen.
Quatrepoint also notes that at least five companies known to be pursued by the DoJ have been snapped up by GE – Invision (US, 2004), Ionics (US, 2005), Amersham (UK, 2004), Nycomed (Norway, 2004) and Vetco Gray (UK, 2007). GE was well primed to pick up Alstom.
Moreover, GE was readily able to come up with the do-re-mi for the Alstom purchase because of its huge tax-evading cache offshore, courtesy of official tolerance. GE’s CEO since 2001, Jeffrey Immelt, pursued tax evasion as a specialist arm of GE’s activities. Quatrepoint notes that the relevant division of GE, under a former US Treasury specialist (what a coincidence!), employed around 950 staff. Quatrepoint also notes that, by end of 2012, GE had accumulated $108 billion offshore. Between 2002 and 2011, GE generated $80 billion in gross profits, but paid only $1.4 billion to the US exchequer. Taxes paid in other countries were negligible. Unfair trade practice and overall bullying of IP and other worldwide actors have been rampant for a long time, so I really don't see how China and its political involvment in commerce should trouble the rest of the world. Only the US, since it will have to compete with another bully. It's not a matter of "either being an asshole or not being an asshole". We can look at the details. As an example, look at this: https://vimeo.com/44078865This is not something you'd ever see in the US. I could put a big sign on my head that says "the US killed a ton of civilians last year and we are war criminals" and nothing would happen to me unless one of the creepy military militiaa wannabes got salty. I could sit right outside the white House saying we kill women and children and I could go home that night knowing I wouldn't disappear. I am not sure how trading less and having less cultural exchanges with a country will make it less authoritarian. If so, you should have stopped trading with Saudi Arabia a long time ago. It is not a valid reason for a trade war. When 2 companies trade, they both benefit, usually. Whether directly or indirectly. By trading with China, we help China. I want us to help China 0% because I see China as a ticking time bomb of cultural/social destruction. China sees no limit to its eventual size and influence. When I look at the current state of both countries, as evidenced by the video I linked, there is no question which side I support. The US also has a wildly different history which makes us a lot more skeptical of our leaders than China. China has "shut up and obey the government, for the good of China" built into its culture. Their support is significantly less wavering than our own. So they are not only more oppressive but they have more support from their own citizens. This is absolute nonsense. China isn't really that bothered about expanding its borders beyond its very immediate surroundings. Unlike America.
Tibet? Taiwan? Korea? Nepal? China is expansionist in the region it sees as its historical sphere.
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On June 13 2019 21:26 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2019 21:03 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I'm just pleasantly suprised that he hasn't caused a major incident during the D-Day commemorations. Did you miss the part where he was talking shit while at the cemetery?
I'm concerned about the actual commemorations and he managed to go through the ceremony without a major mishap. I don't care about the Fox News interview. Thankfully, no one really pays attention to Fox News in Europe, except maybe analysts who want to know what Donald Trump will do next.
As far as I am concerned it's a good thing that Donald Trump's supporters see him being petty in front of thousands of the white graves of the honoured dead, just to underscore how unfit he is to be President of USA he is.
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On June 14 2019 01:39 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2019 21:26 Gahlo wrote:On June 13 2019 21:03 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I'm just pleasantly suprised that he hasn't caused a major incident during the D-Day commemorations. Did you miss the part where he was talking shit while at the cemetery? I'm concerned about the actual commemorations and he managed to go through the ceremony without a major mishap. I don't care about the Fox News interview. Thankfully, no one really pays attention to Fox News in Europe, except maybe analysts who want to know what Donald Trump will do next. As far as I am concerned it's a good thing that Donald Trump's supporters see him being petty in front of thousands of the white graves of the honoured dead, just to underscore how unfit he is to be President of USA he is.
Trump has been shitting on veterans since his campaign and it has never impacted him. You might want to rethink your ideas about how this will be the time it matters.
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On June 14 2019 01:45 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2019 01:39 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On June 13 2019 21:26 Gahlo wrote:On June 13 2019 21:03 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I'm just pleasantly suprised that he hasn't caused a major incident during the D-Day commemorations. Did you miss the part where he was talking shit while at the cemetery? I'm concerned about the actual commemorations and he managed to go through the ceremony without a major mishap. I don't care about the Fox News interview. Thankfully, no one really pays attention to Fox News in Europe, except maybe analysts who want to know what Donald Trump will do next. As far as I am concerned it's a good thing that Donald Trump's supporters see him being petty in front of thousands of the white graves of the honoured dead, just to underscore how unfit he is to be President of USA he is. Trump has been shitting on veterans since his campaign and it has never impacted him. You might want to rethink your ideas about how this will be the time it matters.
I don't think it's as much that this will be the time things change in some way, I think it's more that it's one more opportunity for his supporters to unequivocally endorse his true behavior, knowing that they see him for what he really is, and still pretend he's what we need. It was another chance for them to make that choice.
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On June 14 2019 01:28 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2019 23:56 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 13 2019 23:38 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2019 23:15 Neneu wrote:On June 13 2019 22:39 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2019 22:31 Nouar wrote:On June 13 2019 08:10 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2019 07:30 xDaunt wrote:On June 13 2019 07:25 Doodsmack wrote:On June 13 2019 06:56 xDaunt wrote:I've made previous posts about Trump's strategy with his trade war with China and specifically, his goal of leveraging American economic power and relations to brutalize China's economy and slow, if not halt, its ascendance as a global power, all while boosting domestic investment and output that had previously been going to China. The true harm to China from Trump's tariffs is starting to manifest itself now as multinational supply chains are beginning to shift out of China. [quote] Source. Looking back at the numerous trips that Trump has taken to Western pacific and Southeast Asian countries over the past two years, it is obvious that Trump has been laying the groundwork for this for a while. He's been preparing all of these countries and their businesses for a huge opportunity to steal business from China once the tariffs came into effect. This is why China is now threatening businesses that are considering redeploying operations outside of China and has otherwise been treating the trade war as an existential threat. They know that they're about to suffer a lot of economic pain. I can see how this harms China, but it doesn't bring jobs or investment back to the US. Instead the jobs go to the next cheap-labor country in line (of which there are many). What Trump is doing is making China a far riskier proposition for capital investment, thereby causing businesses to look elsewhere for setting up shop. Not all of the business will relocate to the US. It's going to go to a variety of places. But knocking off China is paramount because they're the big cheaters globally. Even if the investment dollars go somewhere other than the US, the US still wins because 1) China is harmed, and 2) US consumers won't eat the tariffs on goods from China. Yeah I'm fully on board with this. No matter how you look at it, China represents a level of government control that sends shivers down my spine. In many ways, I see China as a bit of a cultural climate change. If China were ever to topple the US as the world's #1, I truly do think we'd be looking at dystopia. Every indication is that China will only become more and more oppressive. The idea of China's influence continuing to slowly grow scares me and I fully support anything that makes China's 100 year plan look worse. From the rest of the world's point of view, the US has already been doing really shitty things by leveraging its political and legal power for ages. For exemple by threatening embargos or unwarranted huge fines on EU companies, only to have a US company with insider knowledge and buy them at a cheaper price, while impying that the fines might disappear after the buyout (skewing the competition). https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/02/behind-ges-takeover-of-alstom-energy/Jean-Michel Quatrepoint highlights that, during the DoJ pursuit of Alstom, GE itself had in its employ around thirty former DoJ functionaries. The Wall Street Journal reported in February 2015 that GE had seen all the documentation regarding DoJ litigation against Alstom. What a coincidence! With all this legal muscle and insider knowledge, no-one in GE sought to disabuse Alstom heavies that the latter’s hope that the DoJ would cease its pursuit or that GE would pay a DoJ-inflicted penalty wasn’t going to happen.
Quatrepoint also notes that at least five companies known to be pursued by the DoJ have been snapped up by GE – Invision (US, 2004), Ionics (US, 2005), Amersham (UK, 2004), Nycomed (Norway, 2004) and Vetco Gray (UK, 2007). GE was well primed to pick up Alstom.
Moreover, GE was readily able to come up with the do-re-mi for the Alstom purchase because of its huge tax-evading cache offshore, courtesy of official tolerance. GE’s CEO since 2001, Jeffrey Immelt, pursued tax evasion as a specialist arm of GE’s activities. Quatrepoint notes that the relevant division of GE, under a former US Treasury specialist (what a coincidence!), employed around 950 staff. Quatrepoint also notes that, by end of 2012, GE had accumulated $108 billion offshore. Between 2002 and 2011, GE generated $80 billion in gross profits, but paid only $1.4 billion to the US exchequer. Taxes paid in other countries were negligible. Unfair trade practice and overall bullying of IP and other worldwide actors have been rampant for a long time, so I really don't see how China and its political involvment in commerce should trouble the rest of the world. Only the US, since it will have to compete with another bully. It's not a matter of "either being an asshole or not being an asshole". We can look at the details. As an example, look at this: https://vimeo.com/44078865This is not something you'd ever see in the US. I could put a big sign on my head that says "the US killed a ton of civilians last year and we are war criminals" and nothing would happen to me unless one of the creepy military militiaa wannabes got salty. I could sit right outside the white House saying we kill women and children and I could go home that night knowing I wouldn't disappear. I am not sure how trading less and having less cultural exchanges with a country will make it less authoritarian. If so, you should have stopped trading with Saudi Arabia a long time ago. It is not a valid reason for a trade war. When 2 companies trade, they both benefit, usually. Whether directly or indirectly. By trading with China, we help China. I want us to help China 0% because I see China as a ticking time bomb of cultural/social destruction. China sees no limit to its eventual size and influence. When I look at the current state of both countries, as evidenced by the video I linked, there is no question which side I support. The US also has a wildly different history which makes us a lot more skeptical of our leaders than China. China has "shut up and obey the government, for the good of China" built into its culture. Their support is significantly less wavering than our own. So they are not only more oppressive but they have more support from their own citizens. This is absolute nonsense. China isn't really that bothered about expanding its borders beyond its very immediate surroundings. Unlike America. Tibet? Taiwan? Korea? Nepal? China is expansionist in the region it sees as its historical sphere.
You are both right. China view those countries as part of China (especially Tibet and Taiwan). In Chinese opinion its not expansionism despite citizens of countries in question having quite different view.
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On June 13 2019 08:43 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2019 08:25 CatharsisUT wrote:On June 13 2019 07:30 xDaunt wrote:On June 13 2019 07:25 Doodsmack wrote:On June 13 2019 06:56 xDaunt wrote:I've made previous posts about Trump's strategy with his trade war with China and specifically, his goal of leveraging American economic power and relations to brutalize China's economy and slow, if not halt, its ascendance as a global power, all while boosting domestic investment and output that had previously been going to China. The true harm to China from Trump's tariffs is starting to manifest itself now as multinational supply chains are beginning to shift out of China. TOKYO— Nintendo Co. is shifting some production of its Switch videogame console to Southeast Asia from China to limit the impact of possible U.S. tariffs on Chinese-made electronics, said people who work on Nintendo’s supply chain.
It is another example of manufacturers adapting to the tariff threat. Taiwan’s Foxconn Technology Group said Tuesday that it was ready to move assembly of Apple Inc.’s iPhones out of China if necessary, and Japan’s Sharp Corp. , which is controlled by Foxconn, said last week that it planned to move production of personal computers to Taiwan or Vietnam.
Kyoto-based Nintendo has traditionally relied on the Chinese factories of contract assembly companies to make its videogame hardware. That includes the Switch console, introduced in 2017.
The Wall Street Journal reported in March that Nintendo planned to update the Switch this year with two new models. One is set to look similar to the current model with beefed-up components, while the other is expected to be a less-expensive model with a new look.
People involved in the supply chain said production in Southeast Asia has started for the Switch, including the current type and the two new models, suggesting Nintendo is getting ready to introduce them soon. They didn’t give specific volume figures but said Nintendo wanted to have enough units to sell in the U.S., the largest market for videogame consoles, when the new products go on the market. Source. Looking back at the numerous trips that Trump has taken to Western pacific and Southeast Asian countries over the past two years, it is obvious that Trump has been laying the groundwork for this for a while. He's been preparing all of these countries and their businesses for a huge opportunity to steal business from China once the tariffs came into effect. This is why China is now threatening businesses that are considering redeploying operations outside of China and has otherwise been treating the trade war as an existential threat. They know that they're about to suffer a lot of economic pain. I can see how this harms China, but it doesn't bring jobs or investment back to the US. Instead the jobs go to the next cheap-labor country in line (of which there are many). What Trump is doing is making China a far riskier proposition for capital investment, thereby causing businesses to look elsewhere for setting up shop. Not all of the business will relocate to the US. It's going to go to a variety of places. But knocking off China is paramount because they're the big cheaters globally. Even if the investment dollars go somewhere other than the US, the US still wins because 1) China is harmed, and 2) US consumers won't eat the tariffs on goods from China. Also, do you think it's a long-term winner to try to specifically destroy China's economy? How do you think China, strongest military power in its area, might respond to the loss of its current economic setup? If you don't understand why China is geopolitically dangerous and why it is in America's interest to slow or halt its ascent, then there really isn't much point talking with you.
That's not really a response. Do you not see the danger in trying to decimate China's economy?
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On June 14 2019 02:57 CatharsisUT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2019 08:43 xDaunt wrote:On June 13 2019 08:25 CatharsisUT wrote:On June 13 2019 07:30 xDaunt wrote:On June 13 2019 07:25 Doodsmack wrote:On June 13 2019 06:56 xDaunt wrote:I've made previous posts about Trump's strategy with his trade war with China and specifically, his goal of leveraging American economic power and relations to brutalize China's economy and slow, if not halt, its ascendance as a global power, all while boosting domestic investment and output that had previously been going to China. The true harm to China from Trump's tariffs is starting to manifest itself now as multinational supply chains are beginning to shift out of China. TOKYO— Nintendo Co. is shifting some production of its Switch videogame console to Southeast Asia from China to limit the impact of possible U.S. tariffs on Chinese-made electronics, said people who work on Nintendo’s supply chain.
It is another example of manufacturers adapting to the tariff threat. Taiwan’s Foxconn Technology Group said Tuesday that it was ready to move assembly of Apple Inc.’s iPhones out of China if necessary, and Japan’s Sharp Corp. , which is controlled by Foxconn, said last week that it planned to move production of personal computers to Taiwan or Vietnam.
Kyoto-based Nintendo has traditionally relied on the Chinese factories of contract assembly companies to make its videogame hardware. That includes the Switch console, introduced in 2017.
The Wall Street Journal reported in March that Nintendo planned to update the Switch this year with two new models. One is set to look similar to the current model with beefed-up components, while the other is expected to be a less-expensive model with a new look.
People involved in the supply chain said production in Southeast Asia has started for the Switch, including the current type and the two new models, suggesting Nintendo is getting ready to introduce them soon. They didn’t give specific volume figures but said Nintendo wanted to have enough units to sell in the U.S., the largest market for videogame consoles, when the new products go on the market. Source. Looking back at the numerous trips that Trump has taken to Western pacific and Southeast Asian countries over the past two years, it is obvious that Trump has been laying the groundwork for this for a while. He's been preparing all of these countries and their businesses for a huge opportunity to steal business from China once the tariffs came into effect. This is why China is now threatening businesses that are considering redeploying operations outside of China and has otherwise been treating the trade war as an existential threat. They know that they're about to suffer a lot of economic pain. I can see how this harms China, but it doesn't bring jobs or investment back to the US. Instead the jobs go to the next cheap-labor country in line (of which there are many). What Trump is doing is making China a far riskier proposition for capital investment, thereby causing businesses to look elsewhere for setting up shop. Not all of the business will relocate to the US. It's going to go to a variety of places. But knocking off China is paramount because they're the big cheaters globally. Even if the investment dollars go somewhere other than the US, the US still wins because 1) China is harmed, and 2) US consumers won't eat the tariffs on goods from China. Also, do you think it's a long-term winner to try to specifically destroy China's economy? How do you think China, strongest military power in its area, might respond to the loss of its current economic setup? If you don't understand why China is geopolitically dangerous and why it is in America's interest to slow or halt its ascent, then there really isn't much point talking with you. That's not really a response. Do you not see the danger in trying to decimate China's economy?
Whatever that risk is, it's far less dangerous than letting China become the dominant world power.
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On June 14 2019 03:01 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2019 02:57 CatharsisUT wrote:On June 13 2019 08:43 xDaunt wrote:On June 13 2019 08:25 CatharsisUT wrote:On June 13 2019 07:30 xDaunt wrote:On June 13 2019 07:25 Doodsmack wrote:On June 13 2019 06:56 xDaunt wrote:I've made previous posts about Trump's strategy with his trade war with China and specifically, his goal of leveraging American economic power and relations to brutalize China's economy and slow, if not halt, its ascendance as a global power, all while boosting domestic investment and output that had previously been going to China. The true harm to China from Trump's tariffs is starting to manifest itself now as multinational supply chains are beginning to shift out of China. TOKYO— Nintendo Co. is shifting some production of its Switch videogame console to Southeast Asia from China to limit the impact of possible U.S. tariffs on Chinese-made electronics, said people who work on Nintendo’s supply chain.
It is another example of manufacturers adapting to the tariff threat. Taiwan’s Foxconn Technology Group said Tuesday that it was ready to move assembly of Apple Inc.’s iPhones out of China if necessary, and Japan’s Sharp Corp. , which is controlled by Foxconn, said last week that it planned to move production of personal computers to Taiwan or Vietnam.
Kyoto-based Nintendo has traditionally relied on the Chinese factories of contract assembly companies to make its videogame hardware. That includes the Switch console, introduced in 2017.
The Wall Street Journal reported in March that Nintendo planned to update the Switch this year with two new models. One is set to look similar to the current model with beefed-up components, while the other is expected to be a less-expensive model with a new look.
People involved in the supply chain said production in Southeast Asia has started for the Switch, including the current type and the two new models, suggesting Nintendo is getting ready to introduce them soon. They didn’t give specific volume figures but said Nintendo wanted to have enough units to sell in the U.S., the largest market for videogame consoles, when the new products go on the market. Source. Looking back at the numerous trips that Trump has taken to Western pacific and Southeast Asian countries over the past two years, it is obvious that Trump has been laying the groundwork for this for a while. He's been preparing all of these countries and their businesses for a huge opportunity to steal business from China once the tariffs came into effect. This is why China is now threatening businesses that are considering redeploying operations outside of China and has otherwise been treating the trade war as an existential threat. They know that they're about to suffer a lot of economic pain. I can see how this harms China, but it doesn't bring jobs or investment back to the US. Instead the jobs go to the next cheap-labor country in line (of which there are many). What Trump is doing is making China a far riskier proposition for capital investment, thereby causing businesses to look elsewhere for setting up shop. Not all of the business will relocate to the US. It's going to go to a variety of places. But knocking off China is paramount because they're the big cheaters globally. Even if the investment dollars go somewhere other than the US, the US still wins because 1) China is harmed, and 2) US consumers won't eat the tariffs on goods from China. Also, do you think it's a long-term winner to try to specifically destroy China's economy? How do you think China, strongest military power in its area, might respond to the loss of its current economic setup? If you don't understand why China is geopolitically dangerous and why it is in America's interest to slow or halt its ascent, then there really isn't much point talking with you. That's not really a response. Do you not see the danger in trying to decimate China's economy? Whatever that risk is, it's far less dangerous than letting China become the dominant world power.
I'm curious, could you give just a rough picture of the dangers of China being the dominant world power in ~2050, vs the dangers (if you see any) of the US remaining it through questionable political/economic means?
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On June 14 2019 03:01 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2019 02:57 CatharsisUT wrote:On June 13 2019 08:43 xDaunt wrote:On June 13 2019 08:25 CatharsisUT wrote:On June 13 2019 07:30 xDaunt wrote:On June 13 2019 07:25 Doodsmack wrote:On June 13 2019 06:56 xDaunt wrote:I've made previous posts about Trump's strategy with his trade war with China and specifically, his goal of leveraging American economic power and relations to brutalize China's economy and slow, if not halt, its ascendance as a global power, all while boosting domestic investment and output that had previously been going to China. The true harm to China from Trump's tariffs is starting to manifest itself now as multinational supply chains are beginning to shift out of China. TOKYO— Nintendo Co. is shifting some production of its Switch videogame console to Southeast Asia from China to limit the impact of possible U.S. tariffs on Chinese-made electronics, said people who work on Nintendo’s supply chain.
It is another example of manufacturers adapting to the tariff threat. Taiwan’s Foxconn Technology Group said Tuesday that it was ready to move assembly of Apple Inc.’s iPhones out of China if necessary, and Japan’s Sharp Corp. , which is controlled by Foxconn, said last week that it planned to move production of personal computers to Taiwan or Vietnam.
Kyoto-based Nintendo has traditionally relied on the Chinese factories of contract assembly companies to make its videogame hardware. That includes the Switch console, introduced in 2017.
The Wall Street Journal reported in March that Nintendo planned to update the Switch this year with two new models. One is set to look similar to the current model with beefed-up components, while the other is expected to be a less-expensive model with a new look.
People involved in the supply chain said production in Southeast Asia has started for the Switch, including the current type and the two new models, suggesting Nintendo is getting ready to introduce them soon. They didn’t give specific volume figures but said Nintendo wanted to have enough units to sell in the U.S., the largest market for videogame consoles, when the new products go on the market. Source. Looking back at the numerous trips that Trump has taken to Western pacific and Southeast Asian countries over the past two years, it is obvious that Trump has been laying the groundwork for this for a while. He's been preparing all of these countries and their businesses for a huge opportunity to steal business from China once the tariffs came into effect. This is why China is now threatening businesses that are considering redeploying operations outside of China and has otherwise been treating the trade war as an existential threat. They know that they're about to suffer a lot of economic pain. I can see how this harms China, but it doesn't bring jobs or investment back to the US. Instead the jobs go to the next cheap-labor country in line (of which there are many). What Trump is doing is making China a far riskier proposition for capital investment, thereby causing businesses to look elsewhere for setting up shop. Not all of the business will relocate to the US. It's going to go to a variety of places. But knocking off China is paramount because they're the big cheaters globally. Even if the investment dollars go somewhere other than the US, the US still wins because 1) China is harmed, and 2) US consumers won't eat the tariffs on goods from China. Also, do you think it's a long-term winner to try to specifically destroy China's economy? How do you think China, strongest military power in its area, might respond to the loss of its current economic setup? If you don't understand why China is geopolitically dangerous and why it is in America's interest to slow or halt its ascent, then there really isn't much point talking with you. That's not really a response. Do you not see the danger in trying to decimate China's economy? Whatever that risk is, it's far less dangerous than letting China become the dominant world power.
But you're acting like those are the only two options. Either:
A. We attempt to destroy China's domestic economy by limiting their exports, or
B. Do nothing and let them become the dominant world power.
It's a false choice. You're just saying "oh well this other bad choice would be worse, so this must be good." If I told you I was cutting off my finger, and you said "well, that's smart, at least you're not cutting off your hand, that would be worse," it would be true but irrelevant.
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I think the perspective on China is a good litmus test. Does the knowledge that they're in conflict with the Trump administration influence what you think about their regional and global ambitions? Will you think the fortifying of islands in the south china sea is not worth mention? Their posture and electronic warfare against countries like Taiwan and Nepal? The Muslim and political dissident re-education camps, not to mention imprisonment and social-credit style harassment and apartheid? The Great Firewall and domestic police oppression relating to knowledge of history like the Tiananmen Square protests?
One thing might be wishing the US wasn't such a dominant force in the world militarily, but it's quite another thing to ignore or cheer China's ascendance to that role in East Asia, the Pacific Theater, and the Eastern Hemisphere more broadly. For the cheap seats, this doesn't mean you have to like Trump's tariffs or political postures or ways he's inviting the conflict.
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On June 14 2019 03:24 Danglars wrote:
I think the perspective on China is a good litmus test. Does the knowledge that they're in conflict with the Trump administration influence what you think about their regional and global ambitions? Will you think the fortifying of islands in the south china sea is not worth mention? Their posture and electronic warfare against countries like Taiwan and Nepal? The Muslim and political dissident re-education camps, not to mention imprisonment and social-credit style harassment and apartheid? The Great Firewall and domestic police oppression relating to knowledge of history like the Tiananmen Square protests?
One thing might be wishing the US wasn't such a dominant force in the world militarily, but it's quite another thing to ignore or cheer China's ascendance to that role in East Asia, the Pacific Theater, and the Eastern Hemisphere more broadly. For the cheap seats, this doesn't mean you have to like Trump's tariffs or political postures or ways he's inviting the conflict.
Completely agree with this.
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United States42956 Posts
I don't think it's an effective litmus test, just a misunderstanding of why the opponents to Trump think the way they do. Danglars apparently sees universal opposition to everything the Trump administration does as rooted in objections to the Trump administration and not due to the policies themselves. That's a misunderstanding. People dislike Trump's policies universally because his policies are universally bad. If Trump started doing good things people would approve of the good things. But he doesn't. He divides his time evenly between manufacturing crises and golf while a team of unqualified donors and sycophants strip protections from the people and enrich themselves.
The policies aren't opposed because Trump is bad. Trump is opposed because the policies are bad.
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On June 14 2019 03:44 KwarK wrote:
I don't think it's an effective litmus test, just a misunderstanding of why the opponents to Trump think the way they do. Danglars apparently sees universal opposition to everything the Trump administration does as rooted in objections to the Trump administration and not due to the policies themselves. That's a misunderstanding. People dislike Trump's policies universally because his policies are universally bad. If Trump started doing good things people would approve of the good things. But he doesn't. He divides his time evenly between manufacturing crises and golf while a team of unqualified donors and sycophants strip protections from the people and enrich themselves.
The policies aren't opposed because Trump is bad. Trump is opposed because the policies are bad.
I think this is mostly true but gets a little cloudy around some policy that has various degrees of bipartisan support/opposition. For instance, Trump's bombing in Syria comes to mind as policy that lands in ambiguity under this framing.
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/13/politics/kellyanne-conway-office-of-special-counsel-hatch-act/index.html
This is a really interesting development. It's no surprise to me that multiple administration offices have violated the laws of our land, overtly.
Finally someone in a position of power is naming this explicitly, and attempting to enforce the law. The OSC calling for the removal of kelly anne conway is one example of long overdue enforcement.
However, this appears to just be a recommendation to higher office which is filled with sycophants who I'm almost certain won't enforce the law.
My question: At what point do supporters of this administration actually say, "This administration has crossed a line, and I'm unwilling to support them further. The principles and laws of my country mean more to me than letting this particular group of people run the country."
When is illegal behavior too much illegal behavior for you, and do you want to make the standard that future officials no longer abide by our laws?
"Ms. Conway's violations, if left unpunished, would send a message to all federal employees that they need not abide by the Hatch Act's restrictions. Her actions thus erode the principal foundation of our democratic system -- the rule of law," the letter said.
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China will become the leading economic power with the next 20 years, if it isn't already. There is simply no way for USA to prevent that even at the cost of USA gutting itself. I do not cheer China's authoritarian bent, but nor do I cheer Trump's actions and policies regarding China as it seems to be entirely the wrong actions to protect the value of liberty. USA's military has nothing to do with anything.
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On June 14 2019 04:22 ShambhalaWar wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/13/politics/kellyanne-conway-office-of-special-counsel-hatch-act/index.htmlThis is a really interesting development. It's no surprise to me that multiple administration offices have violated the laws of our land, overtly. Finally someone in a position of power is naming this explicitly, and attempting to enforce the law. The OSC calling for the removal of kelly anne conway is one example of long overdue enforcement. However, this appears to just be a recommendation to higher office which is filled with sycophants who I'm almost certain won't enforce the law. My question: At what point do supporters of this administration actually say, "This administration has crossed a line, and I'm unwilling to support them further. The principles and laws of my country mean more to me than letting this particular group of people run the country." When is illegal behavior too much illegal behavior for you, and do you want to make the standard that future officials no longer abide by our laws? "Ms. Conway's violations, if left unpunished, would send a message to all federal employees that they need not abide by the Hatch Act's restrictions. Her actions thus erode the principal foundation of our democratic system -- the rule of law," the letter said.
KAC is on the record saying until she’s literally put in jail, she does not care. rules and laws are irrelevant so long as she isn’t found guilty. you know those law and order types.
the quote is ‘let me know when the jail sentence starts.’
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On June 14 2019 04:54 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2019 04:22 ShambhalaWar wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/13/politics/kellyanne-conway-office-of-special-counsel-hatch-act/index.htmlThis is a really interesting development. It's no surprise to me that multiple administration offices have violated the laws of our land, overtly. Finally someone in a position of power is naming this explicitly, and attempting to enforce the law. The OSC calling for the removal of kelly anne conway is one example of long overdue enforcement. However, this appears to just be a recommendation to higher office which is filled with sycophants who I'm almost certain won't enforce the law. My question: At what point do supporters of this administration actually say, "This administration has crossed a line, and I'm unwilling to support them further. The principles and laws of my country mean more to me than letting this particular group of people run the country." When is illegal behavior too much illegal behavior for you, and do you want to make the standard that future officials no longer abide by our laws? "Ms. Conway's violations, if left unpunished, would send a message to all federal employees that they need not abide by the Hatch Act's restrictions. Her actions thus erode the principal foundation of our democratic system -- the rule of law," the letter said. KAC is on the record saying until she’s literally put in jail, she does not care. rules and laws are irrelevant so long as she isn’t found guilty. you know those law and order types. the quote is ‘let me know when the jail sentence starts.’
Now sarah sanders is out.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/13/politics/sarah-sanders-white-house-leaving/index.html
It's pretty obvious when she stopped appearing for any public briefings for months and then resign, maybe she wasn't really doing a good job... unless the job was just supposed to be repeating any lie she was told.
*Unlike conway... she apparently didn't want to go to jail and stopped short at actually lying directly to the OSC in her interview... essentially admitting to the fact she was full of shit.
"Sanders public-facing role and her close relationship with Trump also led her behind closed doors, where she sat for an interview with Mueller's investigators.
In that interview, Sanders admitted that she provided reporters with baseless information about the firing of FBI Director James Comey, according to the Mueller report, conceding that she had no basis for claiming that "countless members of the FBI" had lost faith in Comey.
"She also recalled that her statement in a separate press interview that rank-and-file FBI agents had lost confidence in Comey was a comment she made 'in the heat of the moment' that was not founded on anything," the Mueller report stated."
I don't say this lightly, there should be a jail sentence for perpetuating lies to the world population, for this one, conway, and spicer.
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EPT
