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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1448

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15723 Posts
May 11 2019 00:25 GMT
#28941
Ben Shapiro getting eviscerated on BBC is a life highlight for me. Oh man
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24718 Posts
May 11 2019 00:26 GMT
#28942
Uh, is Ben Shapiro on BBC now? Was he recently? How did he get "eviscerated"?
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-11 00:33:58
May 11 2019 00:33 GMT
#28943
In Michel Foucault's preface to Anti-Oedipus, he says that the schizoanalysis proposed there by Deleuze and Guattari confronts three major adversaries:

  1. "The political ascetics, the sad militants, the terrorists of theory, those who would preserve the pure order of politics and political discourse. Bureaucrats of the revolution and civil servants of Truth."
  2. "The poor technicians of desire — psychoanalysts and semiologists of every sign and symptom — who would subjugate the multiplicity of desire to the twofold law of structure and lack."
  3. "Last but not least, the major enemy, the strategic adversary is fascism (whereas Anti-Oedipus' opposition to the others is more of a tactical engagement). And not only historical fascism, the fascism of Hitler and Mussolini — which was able to mobilize and use the desire of the masses so effectively — but also the fascism in us all, in our heads and in our everyday behavior, the fascism that causes us to love power, to desire the very thing that dominates and exploits us."


He goes on to say that D&G set out in their book something like "an Introduction to the Non-Fascist Life." But for all three of these thinkers the "fascistic impulse" exists on a kind of axis with "schizophrenic" at the other pole. None of them ask if life at that other pole is really to be wanted after all. But there is an implicit kind of reclaiming of "fascism" in the analysis, because there is "fascism" in all of us, and it is not merely reducible to evil. To become who we want to be, we must do violence to ourselves.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12302 Posts
May 11 2019 00:35 GMT
#28944
On May 11 2019 09:25 Mohdoo wrote:
Ben Shapiro getting eviscerated on BBC is a life highlight for me. Oh man


+ Show Spoiler +


I find it hilarious that at the beginning of the interview he almost literally embodies the meme. "I've got all these cool new ideas like christian conservatism"
No will to live, no wish to die
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15723 Posts
May 11 2019 01:08 GMT
#28945
On May 11 2019 09:26 micronesia wrote:
Uh, is Ben Shapiro on BBC now? Was he recently? How did he get "eviscerated"?


If you're already a few beers deep, I recommend watching the video linked above by Nebuchad.

A good TLDR of the interview:

Eventually, Shapiro said that the “whole thing was a waste of time” and he didn’t “give a damn” what Neil thought of him, declaring, “I am not inclined to continue an interview with someone as badly motivated as you,” before taking off his microphone and declaring “we’re done here.”

“Thank you for your time and for showing that anger is not part of American political discourse,” Neil cheekily replied.


It is especially satisfying because of how many times posters in this very thread have tried to prop of Shapiro's ideas. These people un-ironically cite Shapiro.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 11 2019 01:12 GMT
#28946
Shapiro has been drinking his own cool aid for far to long and thinks the simple minded discussions he has will play as political discourse outside of the US. That was an enjoyable thing to see.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43168 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-11 01:18:39
May 11 2019 01:16 GMT
#28947
Andrew Neil was the editor of the Sunday Times, a Murdoch mouthpiece, and is the chairman of a right wing media company. But he's also an intelligent human being who will call you out on bullshit even if he's ideologically sympathetic to you because it's really frustrating when a dumbfuck on "your side" makes all of you look like morons by association. Shapiro's accusations of Neil being part of the left wing conspiracy is pretty fucking funny. As were his claims that the BBC was just courting controversy to make a quick buck (the BBC is a publicly funded service that provides its programming for free and has no advertisers or sponsors).
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-11 01:24:05
May 11 2019 01:23 GMT
#28948
Harvard educated, yet unable to understand how the BBC works. I think Ben might need to get outside this ideological bubble.

But he is pandering to an audience who doesn’t know any of this, so he might just be on brand the entire time.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-11 01:58:26
May 11 2019 01:32 GMT
#28949
Shaprio really hasn't changed, focus on attacking the person look to try to "win" an argument instead of actually conversing. Always found it funny how people will attack someone then play the victim of that person's "aggression".

It's strange Shapiro doesn't know how an interview can work, it's a platform to direct your own policies and promote yourself yet he can't help but try to attack the interviewer if the question isn't softball. It's so easy, acknowledge the question then create a new question for yourself and answer it. Do this over the length of the interview and you'll get more questions that you want to talk about, salesmen and politicians do this all the time.

I only say that's strange because he uses loaded questions all the time which are very related to the method described above. The only difference is how you're changing the topic in one is to promote yourself the other is to trick others into accepting a premise they didn't necessarily agree with so you can attack them. The difference would be instead of acknowledging the question then slipping a premise you want to talk about, you're just slipping a premise you want to talk about so you can attack someone.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
May 11 2019 01:44 GMT
#28950
--- Nuked ---
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15723 Posts
May 11 2019 02:31 GMT
#28951
On May 11 2019 10:44 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2019 10:23 Plansix wrote:
Harvard educated, yet unable to understand how the BBC works. I think Ben might need to get outside this ideological bubble.

But he is pandering to an audience who doesn’t know any of this, so he might just be on brand the entire time.


As more and more it is becoming public how some of these college admissions work I hope being *x* educated starts to matter less.

Working in engineering, I have witnessed zero correlation between university prestige and performance.
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-11 02:53:36
May 11 2019 02:51 GMT
#28952
On May 11 2019 09:35 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2019 09:25 Mohdoo wrote:
Ben Shapiro getting eviscerated on BBC is a life highlight for me. Oh man


+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VixqvOcK8E


I find it hilarious that at the beginning of the interview he almost literally embodies the meme. "I've got all these cool new ideas like christian conservatism"


I find it hilarious that Shapiro openly moves the goal posts at 7:45. He’s openly asking for an even worse president or a president equal to Trump. Today my wife noticed that her period pads went up in price, and they did it subtly. They used to charge $14 for a pack of 36, now its $14 for a pack 26. No more packs of 36 available which helped last her bi weekly flow. Let’s force women to spend more on something that should already be given for free.

I feel even worse for those women that can’t afford it, slowly having to watch women be attacked because they bleed monthly. The fact that people still choose to try and govern what others can do with their body is not just.

I don’t know if any of you have seen Handmaids Tale, but when my wife watched that, her eyes were opened much more to the current situation in the US.
Life?
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-11 03:17:41
May 11 2019 03:16 GMT
#28953
On May 11 2019 10:16 KwarK wrote:
Andrew Neil was the editor of the Sunday Times, a Murdoch mouthpiece, and is the chairman of a right wing media company. But he's also an intelligent human being who will call you out on bullshit even if he's ideologically sympathetic to you because it's really frustrating when a dumbfuck on "your side" makes all of you look like morons by association. Shapiro's accusations of Neil being part of the left wing conspiracy is pretty fucking funny. As were his claims that the BBC was just courting controversy to make a quick buck (the BBC is a publicly funded service that provides its programming for free and has no advertisers or sponsors).


Arguably more importantly, journalists in the UK can legitimately make their careers from a bit of proper journalism where they skewer political figures; the Michael Howard/Jeremy Paxman interview, and those like them, looms large over any journalist on TV in the UK.

Not so long ago Neil absolutely shredded a Tory mouthpiece over several back benchers and security ministers accusing Jeremy Corbyn of literally betraying the country. Not the slightest hint of mercy.

Being right wing and a journalist in the UK doesn't necessarily mean you're a naked partisan hack. If you say something fucking stupid in UK politics, the TV journalists don't rally to justify it, they get their sharpest knives out, make like Hannibal and start prepping for dinner.

So yeah, it's not a surprise Ben Shapiro got bodied. UK journalists are used to people trying to rile/mock/distract them and they tend to just be calm, stoic and dogged, because they know it gives very little to work off. It's partly why Piers Morgan is a) trash and b) the one who (sort of) got over in the US.

I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
May 11 2019 04:16 GMT
#28954
On May 11 2019 10:08 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2019 09:26 micronesia wrote:
Uh, is Ben Shapiro on BBC now? Was he recently? How did he get "eviscerated"?


If you're already a few beers deep, I recommend watching the video linked above by Nebuchad.

A good TLDR of the interview:

Show nested quote +
Eventually, Shapiro said that the “whole thing was a waste of time” and he didn’t “give a damn” what Neil thought of him, declaring, “I am not inclined to continue an interview with someone as badly motivated as you,” before taking off his microphone and declaring “we’re done here.”

“Thank you for your time and for showing that anger is not part of American political discourse,” Neil cheekily replied.


It is especially satisfying because of how many times posters in this very thread have tried to prop of Shapiro's ideas. These people un-ironically cite Shapiro.


You know this interview will be titled "SHAPIRO DESTROYS BBC INTERVIEWER" on youtube right? It's far from clear that he lost this exchange from the perspective of someone who agrees with Shapiro.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15723 Posts
May 11 2019 04:25 GMT
#28955
On May 11 2019 13:16 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2019 10:08 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 11 2019 09:26 micronesia wrote:
Uh, is Ben Shapiro on BBC now? Was he recently? How did he get "eviscerated"?


If you're already a few beers deep, I recommend watching the video linked above by Nebuchad.

A good TLDR of the interview:

Eventually, Shapiro said that the “whole thing was a waste of time” and he didn’t “give a damn” what Neil thought of him, declaring, “I am not inclined to continue an interview with someone as badly motivated as you,” before taking off his microphone and declaring “we’re done here.”

“Thank you for your time and for showing that anger is not part of American political discourse,” Neil cheekily replied.


It is especially satisfying because of how many times posters in this very thread have tried to prop of Shapiro's ideas. These people un-ironically cite Shapiro.


You know this interview will be titled "SHAPIRO DESTROYS BBC INTERVIEWER" on youtube right? It's far from clear that he lost this exchange from the perspective of someone who agrees with Shapiro.


I wouldn't say I'm particularly bothered by that. Lots of flat Earth folks too. You can only think so much about that kinda thing
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
May 11 2019 04:44 GMT
#28956
--- Nuked ---
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-11 06:02:16
May 11 2019 04:54 GMT
#28957
Neil was literally just repeating the shit Shapiro said himself, and he alternated between having no response and getting flustered. But for Shapiro's grating speech, it was quite entertaining.

On May 11 2019 11:31 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2019 10:44 JimmiC wrote:
On May 11 2019 10:23 Plansix wrote:
Harvard educated, yet unable to understand how the BBC works. I think Ben might need to get outside this ideological bubble.

But he is pandering to an audience who doesn’t know any of this, so he might just be on brand the entire time.


As more and more it is becoming public how some of these college admissions work I hope being *x* educated starts to matter less.

Working in engineering, I have witnessed zero correlation between university prestige and performance.

It's easier to tell there because you can't fake engineering. You either know your shit or you're useless. It seems to hold true elsewhere, too.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Tal
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
United Kingdom1017 Posts
May 11 2019 05:26 GMT
#28958
On May 11 2019 13:16 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2019 10:08 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 11 2019 09:26 micronesia wrote:
Uh, is Ben Shapiro on BBC now? Was he recently? How did he get "eviscerated"?


If you're already a few beers deep, I recommend watching the video linked above by Nebuchad.

A good TLDR of the interview:

Eventually, Shapiro said that the “whole thing was a waste of time” and he didn’t “give a damn” what Neil thought of him, declaring, “I am not inclined to continue an interview with someone as badly motivated as you,” before taking off his microphone and declaring “we’re done here.”

“Thank you for your time and for showing that anger is not part of American political discourse,” Neil cheekily replied.


It is especially satisfying because of how many times posters in this very thread have tried to prop of Shapiro's ideas. These people un-ironically cite Shapiro.


You know this interview will be titled "SHAPIRO DESTROYS BBC INTERVIEWER" on youtube right? It's far from clear that he lost this exchange from the perspective of someone who agrees with Shapiro.


Shapiro already conceded he didn't prepare and got destroyed:




I have watched some of Shapiro's stuff which I thought was good (his interview with Andrew Yang for example), but this is just embarrassing.

Normally, I have time for the argument against bringing up old quotes to paint people in a bad light. But if you've literally written a book calling for productive conversation then you have to be able to defend the times you didn't seem to be doing that yourself.
It is what you read when you don't have to that determines what you will be when you can't help it.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
May 11 2019 06:09 GMT
#28959
On May 11 2019 09:35 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2019 09:25 Mohdoo wrote:
Ben Shapiro getting eviscerated on BBC is a life highlight for me. Oh man


+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VixqvOcK8E


I find it hilarious that at the beginning of the interview he almost literally embodies the meme. "I've got all these cool new ideas like christian conservatism"

He performed pretty poorly for a debate performance. Maybe he was expecting an interview? I dunno. Too quick and monotonous throughout, but I guess that's Shapiro.

Isn't it the party of Trump?
Isn't there no thought movement, run out of ideas, compared to new ideas on left?
Aren't some of your ideas taking us back to the dark ages, like Georgia's abortion laws?


Lol this guy. Shapiro fumbles for the right track (Would you suggest that a late term abortion is brutal, if the supporter
"I'm not taking a view on this" is some straight dodge. The next attempt, repeating the question, is even worse. Either say you give everyone you interview a hard time on the takes of the topic, or admit your ideological biases.) But Shapiro does a poor job of stating the point simply and rambles. You have to be able to assume the questioner gives everybody a hard time and uses the same biting remarks.

Aren't you a hypocrite on support of Trump, never voting for him, and maybe now?
You're supposed tellers of hard truths, as a group of youtube stars, but haven't you coarsened public discourse in America and exacerbated it's divisions?
Aren't these titles on youtube videos of you coarse?
Aren't you part of the problem in the discourse, instead of the solution?
Aren't you part of that anger, encouraging it [Gish gallop on Obama's state of union, jewish supporters of Obama, palestinian columns]


You'd think someone that calls for less anger in politics would have a defense for his conclusions stated forcefully and not holding back on the language used to denounce them. He fumbles for the retractions, fumbles back towards the unfair statement of interview questions, in a generally poor performance. He's not expected to defend little snippets from articles going back a decade, but man you have to do a better job pointing that out. If you're really committed to defense from judeo-christian values, it shouldn't be that hard to go through the big ones. Andrew Neil, to his credit pointing out that he had never heard of Shapiro, had been primarily briefed on gotchas. Shapiro ... uhh not so much.

Not a good defense nor debate performance at all. It's like Jeb Bush getting caught by an Iraq War question and being unprepared. If you're going to write a book about defending traditional values and discouraging anger, you better know which past comments were in anger, and which past argued conclusions didn't go to far/are defensible/whatever he's doing.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
ShambhalaWar
Profile Joined August 2013
United States930 Posts
May 11 2019 06:12 GMT
#28960
I like Andrew Yang, he is very interesting in his ideas, and nobody else is talking about universal basic income as a leading issue. Eventually we will all have to get there as automation removes the ability for poeople to create meaningful income.

But I do think it's a little premature. Though... Universal basic income I think would seriously inject the economy and keep it strong for a long time.

Keeping all that in mind,l Bernie 2020.
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