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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1315

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
April 12 2019 13:39 GMT
#26281
Biden is almost certainly in after Super Tuesday as almost no one is campaigning in his lane whereas the Sanders sector is overflowing with people who will devour each other.

Not to mention Bernie has thevsame problem he did in 2016 which is the same problem Hillary had in 2008 and that is that the southern states go really early and Biden will win those just like Hilary did before and like Obama did before her.

I have to give a lot of credit to Mayor Pete though for being the one guy to go after Pence. Its sound strategy as everyone is already going after Trump so he is the only one saying something different.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46692 Posts
April 12 2019 13:59 GMT
#26282
On April 12 2019 22:39 Adreme wrote:
Biden is almost certainly in after Super Tuesday as almost no one is campaigning in his lane whereas the Sanders sector is overflowing with people who will devour each other.

Not to mention Bernie has thevsame problem he did in 2016 which is the same problem Hillary had in 2008 and that is that the southern states go really early and Biden will win those just like Hilary did before and like Obama did before her.

I have to give a lot of credit to Mayor Pete though for being the one guy to go after Pence. Its sound strategy as everyone is already going after Trump so he is the only one saying something different.


I think Mayor Pete was aware that he would have to talk about Pence because of their connections to Indiana, so I'm glad to see that Pete was prepared with some good talking points about that inevitable dialogue.

Biden and Bernie are very clearly the early frontrunners, though I'd be interested to see which other candidates become more popular throughout 2019.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
April 12 2019 14:03 GMT
#26283
Nunes has made his criminal referrals to Barr. He's going to brief Barr with Representative Ratcliffe.

+ Show Spoiler +


Here's how Nunes describes the allegedly criminal conspiracy(ies):

Well Sean, let’s just, let me make it as clear as I possibly can. Okay, and now, thank God, we have an attorney general who calls spying for what it is.

In late 2015, early 2016, spying began on the Trump campaign.

That information leaked; that led to, what they consider to be, “legal spying” that began, that they’ve acknowledged that they started doing in the end of July; you just had Carter Page on; they considered that all “legal spying.

They then leaked that information, right, shortly after the election all through the spring that was leaking out; why? To create a narrative that Donald Trump shouldn’t have been President that he’s a Russian asset, etc. etc. So ‘spying’ and ‘leaking'.

Then you have the culmination of the ultimate spying, where you have the FBI Director spying on the president, taking notes, illegally leaking those notes of classified information; why? So they could appoint a special counsel to spy on an acting president again. So there’s a lot of spying and a lot of leaking, and that’s as clear as I can put it.


Applying what we know from public information, the "2015, early 2016, spying" has to be something that the CIA and other intelligence services did. We don't know a lot about this because that information has been kept strictly confidential and little has leaked. However, Nunes notes at the very end of the video that the "DNI has transcripts" of other testimony and interviews that were taken, so I have no doubt that Nunes, as a ranking member on the intelligence committee, knows exactly what happened and has plenty to pass to Barr. The "end of July" spying is Crossfire Hurricane and the Carter Page FISA warrant. Then the last piece, the "ultimate spying," appears to be an allegation that Comey and others were trying to entrap the president with an obstruction charge. This certainly adds a little more context to Trump publicly talking about all of this being a "coup attempt." The significance of the allegations Nunes is making speaks for itself. We'll see what Barr does with it.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-12 14:06:48
April 12 2019 14:03 GMT
#26284
You folks are jumping ahead in the primary season. Candidates need to get through Iowa and New Hampshire first. The field will be thinned out by the time we get to Super Tuesday. I'm pretty sure most of the big names will make it there, but there should be a surprise or two.

Edit: Nunes, champion of tort reform who is now suing an internet cow for being mean to him and filing lawsuits to silence critics. A man who’s criminal justice expertise should be taken seriously and never does anything for political reasons.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
April 12 2019 14:38 GMT
#26285
I would advise not taking seriously anything Nunes does. Yes the lawsuit over people being mean to him thing is a good start, but lets never forget this is the guy who made a big spectacle about turning over uncovered information to the white house that they gave him just 48 hiurs prior and pretending he uncovered it.

The man is a partisan hack and I wouldn't take anything he says or does too seriously.
hunts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2113 Posts
April 12 2019 14:41 GMT
#26286
At this point nunes has a credibility level similar to that of trump and alex jones. It speaks volumes about the people who keep taking him seriously and using his actions as proof of their views.
twitch.tv/huntstv 7x legend streamer
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
April 12 2019 15:07 GMT
#26287
The casual dismissals from you guys are hilarious in light of the breathtaking scope and severity of the allegations, the known evidence, and the fact that the AG just testified this week that he does believe that Trump was spied upon. When the indictments start coming down, I suspect that Trump supporters are going to be having more fun than they did on election night 2016.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
April 12 2019 15:07 GMT
#26288
On April 12 2019 23:03 xDaunt wrote:
Nunes has made his criminal referrals to Barr. He's going to brief Barr with Representative Ratcliffe.

+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkOvc85ZKPI


Here's how Nunes describes the allegedly criminal conspiracy(ies):

Show nested quote +
Well Sean, let’s just, let me make it as clear as I possibly can. Okay, and now, thank God, we have an attorney general who calls spying for what it is.

In late 2015, early 2016, spying began on the Trump campaign.

That information leaked; that led to, what they consider to be, “legal spying” that began, that they’ve acknowledged that they started doing in the end of July; you just had Carter Page on; they considered that all “legal spying.

They then leaked that information, right, shortly after the election all through the spring that was leaking out; why? To create a narrative that Donald Trump shouldn’t have been President that he’s a Russian asset, etc. etc. So ‘spying’ and ‘leaking'.

Then you have the culmination of the ultimate spying, where you have the FBI Director spying on the president, taking notes, illegally leaking those notes of classified information; why? So they could appoint a special counsel to spy on an acting president again. So there’s a lot of spying and a lot of leaking, and that’s as clear as I can put it.


Applying what we know from public information, the "2015, early 2016, spying" has to be something that the CIA and other intelligence services did. We don't know a lot about this because that information has been kept strictly confidential and little has leaked. However, Nunes notes at the very end of the video that the "DNI has transcripts" of other testimony and interviews that were taken, so I have no doubt that Nunes, as a ranking member on the intelligence committee, knows exactly what happened and has plenty to pass to Barr. The "end of July" spying is Crossfire Hurricane and the Carter Page FISA warrant. Then the last piece, the "ultimate spying," appears to be an allegation that Comey and others were trying to entrap the president with an obstruction charge. This certainly adds a little more context to Trump publicly talking about all of this being a "coup attempt." The significance of the allegations Nunes is making speaks for itself. We'll see what Barr does with it.

You know if it really was a creation of narrative against Trump, why wasn't any info released BEFORE the election? That would be a whole lot more effective. In fact that rather happened to Hillary with Comey doing his 'extreme carelessness' story on the emails. But that doesn't fit the conspiracy because life long republican Comey is so so biased /s

Taking personal notes of a conversation is now spying and entrapment. Calling the memos 'classified information' is a real stretch too.

Denying Trumps personal responsibility for the special counsel being created, and instead calling it a ultimate spying move by entrapment is just madness. Trump said on TV that he fired Comey because of 'the Russia thing' . He could have also not asked for preferential treatment for Flynn. He was the one initiating the dinner with Comey asking for his 'loyalty'. It's not hard to not do those things.
Neosteel Enthusiast
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
April 12 2019 15:14 GMT
#26289
On April 13 2019 00:07 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2019 23:03 xDaunt wrote:
Nunes has made his criminal referrals to Barr. He's going to brief Barr with Representative Ratcliffe.

+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkOvc85ZKPI


Here's how Nunes describes the allegedly criminal conspiracy(ies):

Well Sean, let’s just, let me make it as clear as I possibly can. Okay, and now, thank God, we have an attorney general who calls spying for what it is.

In late 2015, early 2016, spying began on the Trump campaign.

That information leaked; that led to, what they consider to be, “legal spying” that began, that they’ve acknowledged that they started doing in the end of July; you just had Carter Page on; they considered that all “legal spying.

They then leaked that information, right, shortly after the election all through the spring that was leaking out; why? To create a narrative that Donald Trump shouldn’t have been President that he’s a Russian asset, etc. etc. So ‘spying’ and ‘leaking'.

Then you have the culmination of the ultimate spying, where you have the FBI Director spying on the president, taking notes, illegally leaking those notes of classified information; why? So they could appoint a special counsel to spy on an acting president again. So there’s a lot of spying and a lot of leaking, and that’s as clear as I can put it.


Applying what we know from public information, the "2015, early 2016, spying" has to be something that the CIA and other intelligence services did. We don't know a lot about this because that information has been kept strictly confidential and little has leaked. However, Nunes notes at the very end of the video that the "DNI has transcripts" of other testimony and interviews that were taken, so I have no doubt that Nunes, as a ranking member on the intelligence committee, knows exactly what happened and has plenty to pass to Barr. The "end of July" spying is Crossfire Hurricane and the Carter Page FISA warrant. Then the last piece, the "ultimate spying," appears to be an allegation that Comey and others were trying to entrap the president with an obstruction charge. This certainly adds a little more context to Trump publicly talking about all of this being a "coup attempt." The significance of the allegations Nunes is making speaks for itself. We'll see what Barr does with it.

You know if it really was a creation of narrative against Trump, why wasn't any info released BEFORE the election? That would be a whole lot more effective. In fact that rather happened to Hillary with Comey doing his 'extreme carelessness' story on the emails. But that doesn't fit the conspiracy because life long republican Comey is so so biased /s


Releasing the information while Mueller was still investigating could be construed as obstruction of justice. The investigation had to end first.

Taking personal notes of a conversation is now spying and entrapment. Calling the memos 'classified information' is a real stretch too.


We know that Comey made a bunch of memos. What Nunes is saying is that Comey put information into these memos that he should not have. The public hasn't seen these memos, and the quantity of memos just started to become public this week (which I doubt is coincidental). So we'll have to wait and see what Nunes is talking about.

Denying Trumps personal responsibility for the special counsel being created, and instead calling it a ultimate spying move by entrapment is just madness. Trump said on TV that he fired Comey because of 'the Russia thing' . He could have also not asked for preferential treatment for Flynn. He was the one initiating the dinner with Comey asking for his 'loyalty'. It's not hard to not do those things.


Is it really madness? Take a harder a look at what Nunes is saying and try to see things from his perspective. As for the "loyalty" question, I doubt that we have the full story on it yet. One thing that I wonder about is how much of this Trump was aware of when when he took office. We know that Admiral Mike Rogers briefed him on something in the fall of 2016 (Rogers is the one who uncovered massive NSA database abuse in the Spring of 2016) and that Obama officials tried to get Rogers fired immediately afterwards.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 12 2019 15:17 GMT
#26290
Well, Trump's team was throwing around the idea of releasing detained immigrants into sanctuary cities and building "Tent cities" using the military to hold asylum seekers. The best part about the plan is that they wouldn’t tell anyone they were doing it. They planned to tell the local government only after the detained immigrants had been dropped off in the city. We must assume that they tell the local government where they dropped them off, but maybe it would be a more general “you now have 50 new migrants in your city. Go find them. Good luck”. Truly a fantastic plan. This on top of the plan to build “Camps” to hold the detained immigrants.

And there has not been this huge spike in people crossing the border to create this crisis. We are way down from the numbers from the early 2000s and we never had this problem back then. This crisis is entirely of the administration’s making, as they try to make people not come to the country by being as horrible as possible within what the law will allow them to get away with.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/us/politics/sanctuary-cities-trump.html

President Trump’s top aides considered an idea to pressure immigration agencies to release apprehended migrants into so-called sanctuary cities represented by Democratic lawmakers, according to several people familiar with the proposal.

The idea was floated in an email by a top White House policy adviser in November, when Mr. Trump was furiously condemning migrant caravans from Central America headed toward the southwestern border, the people, including two government officials, said.

In the email dated Nov. 16, with the subject line “Sanctuary City Proposal,” May Davis, the deputy White House policy coordinator, raised the idea with officials from the Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Customs and Border Protection.

Ms. Davis suggested that migrants who had been apprehended and were slated to be released into border towns could instead be taken to one of several sanctuary cities, which limit how local law enforcement can cooperate with federal immigration officers.

The proponents of the idea inside the White House argued at the time that it would help with overcrowding at nonprofit shelters in border towns by transferring the migrants to cities that already embrace the idea of having more immigrants, one official said.

Once there, the migrants would be released onto the streets — potentially sending a message to the Democratic politicians who oppose Mr. Trump’s immigration agenda and his demands for a wall along the border with Mexico.

Matthew Albence, the acting deputy director of ICE, objected to the idea, telling the White House that there would be liability issues if a migrant were injured during transport. He also raised concerns that the agency’s budget had not been appropriated for that purpose.

In an email, Mr. Albence responded that the proposal would create “an unnecessary operational burden” on the department and added that he did not know how paying extra to transport migrants to another location was “a justified expenditure.”
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
April 12 2019 15:22 GMT
#26291
I'm all for dumping illegal immigrants into sanctuary cities and other liberal bastions that support illegal immigration. I'm a strong believer in the power of NIMBYism.
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
April 12 2019 15:23 GMT
#26292
On April 13 2019 00:22 xDaunt wrote:
I'm all for dumping illegal immigrants into sanctuary cities and other liberal bastions that support illegal immigration. I'm a strong believer in the power of NIMBYism.


Don't you live in CA?
Something witty
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
April 12 2019 15:24 GMT
#26293
On April 13 2019 00:23 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 00:22 xDaunt wrote:
I'm all for dumping illegal immigrants into sanctuary cities and other liberal bastions that support illegal immigration. I'm a strong believer in the power of NIMBYism.


Don't you live in CA?

I'm in Colorado, but we have sanctuary cities here as well.
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
April 12 2019 15:26 GMT
#26294
On April 13 2019 00:24 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 00:23 IyMoon wrote:
On April 13 2019 00:22 xDaunt wrote:
I'm all for dumping illegal immigrants into sanctuary cities and other liberal bastions that support illegal immigration. I'm a strong believer in the power of NIMBYism.


Don't you live in CA?

I'm in Colorado, but we have sanctuary cities here as well.


Are you sure you want to be for the policy of going after the local population of a state to get back at the opposition leadership?

You really want to be behind that? Because this is about using people as pawns to get back at his political opponents
Something witty
schaf
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1326 Posts
April 12 2019 15:30 GMT
#26295
On April 13 2019 00:22 xDaunt wrote:
I'm all for dumping illegal immigrants into sanctuary cities and other liberal bastions that support illegal immigration. I'm a strong believer in the power of NIMBYism.


In general the acception (acceptation?) of immigrants rises the more immigrants there are in the area.
Axiom wins more than it loses. Most viewers don't. - <3 TB
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22703 Posts
April 12 2019 15:30 GMT
#26296
On April 13 2019 00:26 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 00:24 xDaunt wrote:
On April 13 2019 00:23 IyMoon wrote:
On April 13 2019 00:22 xDaunt wrote:
I'm all for dumping illegal immigrants into sanctuary cities and other liberal bastions that support illegal immigration. I'm a strong believer in the power of NIMBYism.


Don't you live in CA?

I'm in Colorado, but we have sanctuary cities here as well.


Are you sure you want to be for the policy of going after the local population of a state to get back at the opposition leadership?

You really want to be behind that? Because this is about using people as pawns to get back at his political opponents
Party over Country, victory at any price.

Welcome to the Republican party.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
April 12 2019 15:31 GMT
#26297
On April 13 2019 00:26 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 00:24 xDaunt wrote:
On April 13 2019 00:23 IyMoon wrote:
On April 13 2019 00:22 xDaunt wrote:
I'm all for dumping illegal immigrants into sanctuary cities and other liberal bastions that support illegal immigration. I'm a strong believer in the power of NIMBYism.


Don't you live in CA?

I'm in Colorado, but we have sanctuary cities here as well.


Are you sure you want to be for the policy of going after the local population of a state to get back at the opposition leadership?

You really want to be behind that? Because this is about using people as pawns to get back at his political opponents


I want people who pursue and advocate stupid policies to bear the consequences of those policies. That's far more fair than making others who oppose those policies bear the burden.
hunts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2113 Posts
April 12 2019 15:33 GMT
#26298
On April 13 2019 00:31 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 00:26 IyMoon wrote:
On April 13 2019 00:24 xDaunt wrote:
On April 13 2019 00:23 IyMoon wrote:
On April 13 2019 00:22 xDaunt wrote:
I'm all for dumping illegal immigrants into sanctuary cities and other liberal bastions that support illegal immigration. I'm a strong believer in the power of NIMBYism.


Don't you live in CA?

I'm in Colorado, but we have sanctuary cities here as well.


Are you sure you want to be for the policy of going after the local population of a state to get back at the opposition leadership?

You really want to be behind that? Because this is about using people as pawns to get back at his political opponents


I want people who pursue and advocate stupid policies to bear the consequences of those policies. That's far more fair than making others who oppose those policies bear the burden.


Kind of like the farm owners who voted for trump who then cry that they will go out of business if he takes away their cheap immigrant labor? Or the people who voted for trump who then cry that they didn't think he would take away THEIR health insurance? Or the people who voted for trump who didn't think it would be THEIR taxes going up, just the colored poor people's?
twitch.tv/huntstv 7x legend streamer
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-12 15:42:50
April 12 2019 15:35 GMT
#26299
On April 13 2019 00:07 xDaunt wrote:
The casual dismissals from you guys are hilarious in light of the breathtaking scope and severity of the allegations, the known evidence, and the fact that the AG just testified this week that he does believe that Trump was spied upon. When the indictments start coming down, I suspect that Trump supporters are going to be having more fun than they did on election night 2016.

I'm a little sympathetic. Trump's election originally was quite shocking. Every sensible person said Hillary would win because Trump had no real path to the White House. That view persisted to the day of the election. Now, from a leftward perspective, it's shocking it is that someone so visibly conciliatory to authoritarians and ethically unmoored didn't engineer a partnership during the campaign with Russia.

Where do you really go cognitively after those twin shocks? You can't accept damaging proof of improper domestic spying, because that means Obama administration figures and not Trump administration figures need higher scrutiny. Naturally, you'll run to the slightest shred of "Barr misrepresented things in his summary/Any redaction is a coverup"-style of collusion truther narrative. Mueller/Barr/Rosenstein dashed two years of hope for impeachable offenses rising from the Mueller investigation. That's a lot of investment to not get back ... a lot of tick tick tick boom tweets and Schiff interviews.

I've been rolling back through many of the pages of this thread with StealthBlue posts, and 4-5 thread libs concurring about how it was only a matter of time before collusion was exposed, or the latest juicy anonymous leak. Papadopoulos was going to flip because of the deal, FBI raid on Manafort would get the goods, the big drops in the dossier were about to be proven true. I think a little more empathy is called for at this time. The country must eventually drop the Trump hysteria, play out the rest of Trump's term, and accept whoever wins the 2020 election if this nation is to survive.

On April 13 2019 00:22 xDaunt wrote:
I'm all for dumping illegal immigrants into sanctuary cities and other liberal bastions that support illegal immigration. I'm a strong believer in the power of NIMBYism.

The northeast would start talking "crisis" in a week if they even received 10% of the result of catch-and-release policies.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-12 16:07:29
April 12 2019 15:37 GMT
#26300
On April 13 2019 00:22 xDaunt wrote:
I'm all for dumping illegal immigrants into sanctuary cities and other liberal bastions that support illegal immigration. I'm a strong believer in the power of NIMBYism.

Not really surprised, you were always into petty satisfaction when it comes to politics. I wish I could be more like you, but sadly I realize my personal gratification isn’t a productive political motivation to create policy.

Also, living around one of those cities, I can tell you that they are more than capable of dealing with migrants and many would likely assist if asked. But I get that it isn’t about helping or solving the problem, but sticking it to the libs though the use of government power. The New Conservative political platform.

On April 13 2019 00:35 Danglars wrote:

The northeast would start talking "crisis" in a week if they even received 10% of the result of catch-and-release policies.


Nah. We would be fine. The sanctuary cities have enough immigration advocates and aid services set up anyways. They would only need money and notice. This is the dumb part about the administration’s plan. If Trump had any leadership skills, he could have easily handled this problem with the assistance from the rest of the country.

And I don't know where this weak and timid northeaster states reputation comes from, but it has to have been created by silly people who have never been to New York, Boston, New Hampshire or Maine.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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