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On March 11 2019 21:58 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 21:30 iamthedave wrote:On March 11 2019 10:11 xDaunt wrote:
China certainly has economic problems beyond the impact of the tariffs, and they undoubtedly are causing more damage to China than the tariffs. But bottom line is that the tariffs are hurting China at a time when China can ill-afford a trade war. This has brought Xi to the bargaining table. That’s a good thing.
And as for this nonsense about the US retreating from the world stage under Trump, what exactly do you want the US to do in an increasingly multipolar world? Start a war? It’s pretty much universally accepted that the US no longer has the comparative strength to stop China from seizing Taiwan or any other local strategic goal in theater. Economic pressure is the best tool available. Not pissing off almost every strategic ally the US has ever had would have been a good start. Let alone this apparently new nonsense about trying to make other countries pay for the privilege of having American soldiers in their country. Why should Americans care about pissing off foreign countries? We owe nothing to them, and the average American doesnt get any benefit from being allies with them. The only people who gain from these globalism policies are the American elite. Trump isn't perfect, but the closer we get to to isolationism, the better it is for us.
Well in this case, the US cares because that country is to the south of the US and a further crisis could spread across the region. We live in that region. Isolationism is a lie that people who crave simple solutions to reality.
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Isolationism didn’t work before nukes, the internet, and global public health awareness, and it sure as hell won’t work now or moving forward.
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On March 11 2019 22:02 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 21:58 BerserkSword wrote:On March 11 2019 21:30 iamthedave wrote:On March 11 2019 10:11 xDaunt wrote:
China certainly has economic problems beyond the impact of the tariffs, and they undoubtedly are causing more damage to China than the tariffs. But bottom line is that the tariffs are hurting China at a time when China can ill-afford a trade war. This has brought Xi to the bargaining table. That’s a good thing.
And as for this nonsense about the US retreating from the world stage under Trump, what exactly do you want the US to do in an increasingly multipolar world? Start a war? It’s pretty much universally accepted that the US no longer has the comparative strength to stop China from seizing Taiwan or any other local strategic goal in theater. Economic pressure is the best tool available. Not pissing off almost every strategic ally the US has ever had would have been a good start. Let alone this apparently new nonsense about trying to make other countries pay for the privilege of having American soldiers in their country. Why should Americans care about pissing off foreign countries? We owe nothing to them, and the average American doesnt get any benefit from being allies with them. The only people who gain from these globalism policies are the American elite. Trump isn't perfect, but the closer we get to to isolationism, the better it is for us. Well in this case, the US cares because that country is to the south of the US and a further crisis could spread across the region. We live in that region. Isolationism is a lie that people who crave simple solutions to reality.
It's not a problem if the borders are secure.
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On March 11 2019 22:08 farvacola wrote:
Isolationism didn’t work before nukes, the internet, and global public health awareness, and it sure as hell won’t work now or moving forward.
it worked
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On March 11 2019 22:16 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 22:09 BerserkSword wrote:On March 11 2019 22:02 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2019 21:58 BerserkSword wrote:On March 11 2019 21:30 iamthedave wrote:On March 11 2019 10:11 xDaunt wrote:
China certainly has economic problems beyond the impact of the tariffs, and they undoubtedly are causing more damage to China than the tariffs. But bottom line is that the tariffs are hurting China at a time when China can ill-afford a trade war. This has brought Xi to the bargaining table. That’s a good thing.
And as for this nonsense about the US retreating from the world stage under Trump, what exactly do you want the US to do in an increasingly multipolar world? Start a war? It’s pretty much universally accepted that the US no longer has the comparative strength to stop China from seizing Taiwan or any other local strategic goal in theater. Economic pressure is the best tool available. Not pissing off almost every strategic ally the US has ever had would have been a good start. Let alone this apparently new nonsense about trying to make other countries pay for the privilege of having American soldiers in their country. Why should Americans care about pissing off foreign countries? We owe nothing to them, and the average American doesnt get any benefit from being allies with them. The only people who gain from these globalism policies are the American elite. Trump isn't perfect, but the closer we get to to isolationism, the better it is for us. Well in this case, the US cares because that country is to the south of the US and a further crisis could spread across the region. We live in that region. Isolationism is a lie that people who crave simple solutions to reality. It's not a problem if the borders are secure. So the Berlin wall had a huge concert barrier, mines, gun post, ect... Still not 100% effective. Unless you're advocating for killing people at the border (which I don't think you are) 'secure' isn't a thing
I dont think you understand. We are not in the same situation as divided Germany and we do not have to use the same methods. I dont see the purpose of bringing up irrelevant historical situations.
You still havent justified why the U.S. should practice interventionism.
The Constitution clearly defines the role of the government. being the world police is not outlined at all.
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Having people on your side is useful. Sometimes it might be more useful to piss them off and gain something for that. But just randomly pissing people (or countries) off for no apparent reason does not sound like a winning move.
Yes, technically i do not owe my neighbours anything, and as long as i stay within the rules of my apartment complex, they can not really hurt me. But it might still be a good idea to try to be a good neighbour, just because at some point in the future it might be useful if they would prefer to support me.
I must say that i am a bit surprised that the simple idea that having friends or allies can be useful is controversial.
I don't say that the US needs to be involved in everything on the global stage, in fact it might be good if they were less involved, both for americans and the world. I just don't see how randomly pissing off countries for no gain helps with that.
Try to see a relationship and goodwill as a resource. Sometimes it might be worth it to spend that goodwill to gain something, but it seems silly to just throw it away, just because you are not sure how it helps you right now.
If you want to be less interventionist, be less interventionist. If you don't want to have bases all over the world, shut down some of those bases. All of that can be done in a diplomatic way that doesn't piss off too many people. If you can achieve the same goal without throwing away the goodwill just by not being a massive dick about it, it seems pointless to throw away the goodwill just for the sake of it.
Furthermore, it demonstrates that you are not an ally that can be relied upon, which will hurt you in the future if you actually want something from another nation. Which will happen at some point.
Once again, look at the analogue situation off a person. Sure, it doesn't hurt me right now to do stuff that pisses off all my friends (if i don't value the friendship per se). But at some point in the future i might need something from those friends, and it will be a lot harder and more costly to get if they think that i am an asshole now.
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On March 11 2019 22:16 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 22:08 farvacola wrote:
Isolationism didn’t work before nukes, the internet, and global public health awareness, and it sure as hell won’t work now or moving forward. it worked
Citation needed.
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On March 11 2019 06:09 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 05:24 ticklishmusic wrote:
Re: China
The Chinese population likes Trump because he's an entertaining, bumbling moron who is a walking meme factory. Same reason that the late night circuit and American media like Trump, he provides great material.
Xi thinks Trump is a moron too. But a dangerous one, since he threatens to disrupt the Chinese economy at a delicate time. However, he also perceives the opportunity that an America with a largely impotent foreign policy presents. This doesn't really add up. Trump is the first president that we have had who has been willing to effectively take on China and curb its emergence as a power. What makes Trump different and more effective than his predecessors is his weaponization of American economic power. Trump is methodically taking a hammer to China's structural advantages. The USMCA is one of the biggest pieces in this regard in that it closes off China's ability to dump goods in Mexico or Canada for eventual sale in the US. With regards to the tariffs, and setting the trade gap aside, it's pretty clear that the US is winning the trade war. The Chinese economy is taking beating, with broad-based declines all across its economy. The Chinese central bank is flooding the market with stimulus to keep things afloat. The US, on the other hand, is just chugging along. I saw an article in the WSJ a week or two ago quantifying the drag from tariffs on the US economy at $6.4 billion per month, which is a nominal figure. We're still early in the game and it's going to take some time for the full impact of the tariffs to be felt on both sides. But right now, the US has the upper hand, which seems to be leading towards some kind of new trade deal with China. Regardless of what's in it, the US will undoubtedly come out in a better position than it was in before Trump took office. The previous state of affairs was simply intolerable.
I think you're suffering from amnesia. Obama did plenty to try and curb China. Remember the Pivot to Asia? Remember the TPP? Regardless of whether or not you were in favor of the final product, it represented a pretty significant attempt to align the US with the rest of the Asian nations to counter China's expansionist policies.
Trump may talk a big game about curbing China, but realistically he's done anything but. A trade war is not curbing China. The on-again-off-again negotiations are not curbing China. I expect at best some token concessions on China's part and for them to carry on more or less the same as before. In a globalized world, anything short of a broad multilateral agreement has little chance of having a meaningful impact.
Plus, lets not forget Trump basically singlehandedly nuked the US soybean market.
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On March 11 2019 22:26 Simberto wrote:
Having people on your side is useful. Sometimes it might be more useful to piss them off and gain something for that. But just randomly pissing people (or countries) off for no apparent reason does not sound like a winning move.
Yes, technically i do not owe my neighbours anything, and as long as i stay within the rules of my apartment complex, they can not really hurt me. But it might still be a good idea to try to be a good neighbour, just because at some point in the future it might be useful if they would prefer to support me.
I must say that i am a bit surprised that the simple idea that having friends or allies can be useful is controversial.
I don't say that the US needs to be involved in everything on the global stage, in fact it might be good if they were less involved, both for americans and the world. I just don't see how randomly pissing off countries for no gain helps with that.
Try to see a relationship and goodwill as a resource. Sometimes it might be worth it to spend that goodwill to gain something, but it seems silly to just throw it away, just because you are not sure how it helps you right now.
If you want to be less interventionist, be less interventionist. If you don't want to have bases all over the world, shut down some of those bases. All of that can be done in a diplomatic way that doesn't piss off too many people. If you can achieve the same goal without throwing away the goodwill just by not being a massive dick about it, it seems pointless to throw away the goodwill just for the sake of it.
Furthermore, it demonstrates that you are not an ally that can be relied upon, which will hurt you in the future if you actually want something from another nation. Which will happen at some point.
Once again, look at the analogue situation off a person. Sure, it doesn't hurt me right now to do stuff that pisses off all my friends (if i don't value the friendship per se). But at some point in the future i might need something from those friends, and it will be a lot harder and more costly to get if they think that i am an asshole now.
Actually nothing the U.S.'s current alliances are useful to American citizens.
It is impossible for any country/coalition on the planet to invade the U.S. for various reasons. The American citizen will be as safe with or without being in the EU's good graces.
If getting the U.S out of deals that do no benefit to American citizens = pissing off other countries, then so be it. the President has a duty towards Americans and Americans only. He does not have the duty of not pissing other countries off.
the relationship between you and your next door neighbor is not the same as the geopolitical relationships. Goodwill is a farce in that realm. If you think "goodwill" means anything in the world of global politics I dont know what to tell you lol. Both parties are extremely calculated and only do things if it benefits certain parties.
We both see this in a different light. You think relationships between nations are like relationships between people. I think that's far from the truth. they are incomparable - completely different
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On March 11 2019 22:40 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 22:26 Simberto wrote:
Having people on your side is useful. Sometimes it might be more useful to piss them off and gain something for that. But just randomly pissing people (or countries) off for no apparent reason does not sound like a winning move.
Yes, technically i do not owe my neighbours anything, and as long as i stay within the rules of my apartment complex, they can not really hurt me. But it might still be a good idea to try to be a good neighbour, just because at some point in the future it might be useful if they would prefer to support me.
I must say that i am a bit surprised that the simple idea that having friends or allies can be useful is controversial.
I don't say that the US needs to be involved in everything on the global stage, in fact it might be good if they were less involved, both for americans and the world. I just don't see how randomly pissing off countries for no gain helps with that.
Try to see a relationship and goodwill as a resource. Sometimes it might be worth it to spend that goodwill to gain something, but it seems silly to just throw it away, just because you are not sure how it helps you right now.
If you want to be less interventionist, be less interventionist. If you don't want to have bases all over the world, shut down some of those bases. All of that can be done in a diplomatic way that doesn't piss off too many people. If you can achieve the same goal without throwing away the goodwill just by not being a massive dick about it, it seems pointless to throw away the goodwill just for the sake of it.
Furthermore, it demonstrates that you are not an ally that can be relied upon, which will hurt you in the future if you actually want something from another nation. Which will happen at some point.
Once again, look at the analogue situation off a person. Sure, it doesn't hurt me right now to do stuff that pisses off all my friends (if i don't value the friendship per se). But at some point in the future i might need something from those friends, and it will be a lot harder and more costly to get if they think that i am an asshole now. Actually nothing the U.S.'s current alliances are useful to American citizens. It is impossible for any country/coalition on the planet to invade the U.S. for various reasons. The American citizen will be as safe with or without being in the EU's good graces. If getting the U.S out of deals that do no benefit to American citizens = pissing off other countries, then so be it. the President has a duty towards Americans and Americans only. He does not have the duty of not pissing other countries off. the relationship between you and your next door neighbor is not the same as the geopolitical relationships. Goodwill is a farce in that realm. If you think "goodwill" means anything in the world of global politics I dont know what to tell you lol. Both parties are extremely calculated and only do things if it benefits certain parties. We both see this in a different light. You think relationships between nations are like relationships between people. I think that's far from the truth. they are incomparable - completely different
I think this is the point where we realize this guy is trolling.
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On March 11 2019 22:41 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 21:58 BerserkSword wrote:On March 11 2019 21:30 iamthedave wrote:On March 11 2019 10:11 xDaunt wrote:
China certainly has economic problems beyond the impact of the tariffs, and they undoubtedly are causing more damage to China than the tariffs. But bottom line is that the tariffs are hurting China at a time when China can ill-afford a trade war. This has brought Xi to the bargaining table. That’s a good thing.
And as for this nonsense about the US retreating from the world stage under Trump, what exactly do you want the US to do in an increasingly multipolar world? Start a war? It’s pretty much universally accepted that the US no longer has the comparative strength to stop China from seizing Taiwan or any other local strategic goal in theater. Economic pressure is the best tool available. Not pissing off almost every strategic ally the US has ever had would have been a good start. Let alone this apparently new nonsense about trying to make other countries pay for the privilege of having American soldiers in their country. Why should Americans care about pissing off foreign countries? We owe nothing to them, and the average American doesnt get any benefit from being allies with them. The only people who gain from these globalism policies are the American elite.Trump isn't perfect, but the closer we get to to isolationism, the better it is for us. As a card carrying member of the American elite why would Trump create a policy that hurts them? Not only is he one and benefits from what they benefit from. But he needs them all to continue to be elite so they can use his ultra elite golf courses, hotels and so on. So the real sheeple are those who think Trump would be working against the elite. He is clearly working for them. Like the worlds most obvious double agent.
I agree. Trump is far from perfect. The fact that he was allowed to win is telling. But he is a lot better than the Obama, Bushs, Clintons, and Raegan
He was probably threatened by the deep state since he did a 180 on a lot of his policies (the important ones, not the dumb ones like building a wall)
edit; also by American elite i mean the financial juggernauts who actually run the country from the shadows, not a celebrity like Trump
User was warned for this post
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On March 11 2019 22:45 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 22:41 JimmiC wrote:On March 11 2019 21:58 BerserkSword wrote:On March 11 2019 21:30 iamthedave wrote:On March 11 2019 10:11 xDaunt wrote:
China certainly has economic problems beyond the impact of the tariffs, and they undoubtedly are causing more damage to China than the tariffs. But bottom line is that the tariffs are hurting China at a time when China can ill-afford a trade war. This has brought Xi to the bargaining table. That’s a good thing.
And as for this nonsense about the US retreating from the world stage under Trump, what exactly do you want the US to do in an increasingly multipolar world? Start a war? It’s pretty much universally accepted that the US no longer has the comparative strength to stop China from seizing Taiwan or any other local strategic goal in theater. Economic pressure is the best tool available. Not pissing off almost every strategic ally the US has ever had would have been a good start. Let alone this apparently new nonsense about trying to make other countries pay for the privilege of having American soldiers in their country. Why should Americans care about pissing off foreign countries? We owe nothing to them, and the average American doesnt get any benefit from being allies with them. The only people who gain from these globalism policies are the American elite.Trump isn't perfect, but the closer we get to to isolationism, the better it is for us. As a card carrying member of the American elite why would Trump create a policy that hurts them? Not only is he one and benefits from what they benefit from. But he needs them all to continue to be elite so they can use his ultra elite golf courses, hotels and so on. So the real sheeple are those who think Trump would be working against the elite. He is clearly working for them. Like the worlds most obvious double agent. I agree. Trump is far from perfect. The fact that he was allowed to win is telling. But he is a lot better than the Obama, Bushs, Clintons, and Raegan He was probably threatened by the deep state since he did a 180 on a lot of his policies (the important ones, not the dumb ones like building a wall) edit; also by American elite i mean the financial juggernauts who actually run the country from the shadows, not a celebrity like Trump
You are saying a lot of things without providing any evidence to support your claims.
Why is he better than the predecessors you cite?
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On March 11 2019 22:09 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 22:02 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2019 21:58 BerserkSword wrote:On March 11 2019 21:30 iamthedave wrote:On March 11 2019 10:11 xDaunt wrote:
China certainly has economic problems beyond the impact of the tariffs, and they undoubtedly are causing more damage to China than the tariffs. But bottom line is that the tariffs are hurting China at a time when China can ill-afford a trade war. This has brought Xi to the bargaining table. That’s a good thing.
And as for this nonsense about the US retreating from the world stage under Trump, what exactly do you want the US to do in an increasingly multipolar world? Start a war? It’s pretty much universally accepted that the US no longer has the comparative strength to stop China from seizing Taiwan or any other local strategic goal in theater. Economic pressure is the best tool available. Not pissing off almost every strategic ally the US has ever had would have been a good start. Let alone this apparently new nonsense about trying to make other countries pay for the privilege of having American soldiers in their country. Why should Americans care about pissing off foreign countries? We owe nothing to them, and the average American doesnt get any benefit from being allies with them. The only people who gain from these globalism policies are the American elite. Trump isn't perfect, but the closer we get to to isolationism, the better it is for us. Well in this case, the US cares because that country is to the south of the US and a further crisis could spread across the region. We live in that region. Isolationism is a lie that people who crave simple solutions to reality. It's not a problem if the borders are secure.
As I said previously, isolationism is appealing to people who wants simple answers to complex problems.
The “secure borders” is this mythical idea that we can prevent free thinking humans from crossing borders with sheer force and threats of violence. Nations that were far more willing to us force and bypass whatever laws they have failed to do this. But America will somehow magically be able to do it. We should not give into your magical thinking on these subjects.
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On March 11 2019 23:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 22:09 BerserkSword wrote:On March 11 2019 22:02 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2019 21:58 BerserkSword wrote:On March 11 2019 21:30 iamthedave wrote:On March 11 2019 10:11 xDaunt wrote:
China certainly has economic problems beyond the impact of the tariffs, and they undoubtedly are causing more damage to China than the tariffs. But bottom line is that the tariffs are hurting China at a time when China can ill-afford a trade war. This has brought Xi to the bargaining table. That’s a good thing.
And as for this nonsense about the US retreating from the world stage under Trump, what exactly do you want the US to do in an increasingly multipolar world? Start a war? It’s pretty much universally accepted that the US no longer has the comparative strength to stop China from seizing Taiwan or any other local strategic goal in theater. Economic pressure is the best tool available. Not pissing off almost every strategic ally the US has ever had would have been a good start. Let alone this apparently new nonsense about trying to make other countries pay for the privilege of having American soldiers in their country. Why should Americans care about pissing off foreign countries? We owe nothing to them, and the average American doesnt get any benefit from being allies with them. The only people who gain from these globalism policies are the American elite. Trump isn't perfect, but the closer we get to to isolationism, the better it is for us. Well in this case, the US cares because that country is to the south of the US and a further crisis could spread across the region. We live in that region. Isolationism is a lie that people who crave simple solutions to reality. It's not a problem if the borders are secure. As I said previously, isolationism is appealing to people who wants simple answers to complex problems. The “secure borders” is this mythical idea that we can prevent free thinking humans from crossing borders with sheer force and threats of violence. Nations that were far more willing to us force and bypass whatever laws they have failed to do this. But America will somehow magically be able to do it. We should not give into your magical thinking on these subjects.
Uhhh, not sure if you realize, but we can and do prevent humans from crossing borders through the use of force. Every country on the planet does so, to some extent
On March 11 2019 23:10 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 22:45 BerserkSword wrote:On March 11 2019 22:41 JimmiC wrote:On March 11 2019 21:58 BerserkSword wrote:On March 11 2019 21:30 iamthedave wrote:On March 11 2019 10:11 xDaunt wrote:
China certainly has economic problems beyond the impact of the tariffs, and they undoubtedly are causing more damage to China than the tariffs. But bottom line is that the tariffs are hurting China at a time when China can ill-afford a trade war. This has brought Xi to the bargaining table. That’s a good thing.
And as for this nonsense about the US retreating from the world stage under Trump, what exactly do you want the US to do in an increasingly multipolar world? Start a war? It’s pretty much universally accepted that the US no longer has the comparative strength to stop China from seizing Taiwan or any other local strategic goal in theater. Economic pressure is the best tool available. Not pissing off almost every strategic ally the US has ever had would have been a good start. Let alone this apparently new nonsense about trying to make other countries pay for the privilege of having American soldiers in their country. Why should Americans care about pissing off foreign countries? We owe nothing to them, and the average American doesnt get any benefit from being allies with them. The only people who gain from these globalism policies are the American elite.Trump isn't perfect, but the closer we get to to isolationism, the better it is for us. As a card carrying member of the American elite why would Trump create a policy that hurts them? Not only is he one and benefits from what they benefit from. But he needs them all to continue to be elite so they can use his ultra elite golf courses, hotels and so on. So the real sheeple are those who think Trump would be working against the elite. He is clearly working for them. Like the worlds most obvious double agent. I agree. Trump is far from perfect. The fact that he was allowed to win is telling. But he is a lot better than the Obama, Bushs, Clintons, and Raegan He was probably threatened by the deep state since he did a 180 on a lot of his policies (the important ones, not the dumb ones like building a wall) edit; also by American elite i mean the financial juggernauts who actually run the country from the shadows, not a celebrity like Trump You are saying a lot of things without providing any evidence to support your claims. Why is he better than the predecessors you cite?
fiscal policy and foreign policy
On March 11 2019 23:25 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 22:45 BerserkSword wrote:On March 11 2019 22:41 JimmiC wrote:On March 11 2019 21:58 BerserkSword wrote:On March 11 2019 21:30 iamthedave wrote:On March 11 2019 10:11 xDaunt wrote:
China certainly has economic problems beyond the impact of the tariffs, and they undoubtedly are causing more damage to China than the tariffs. But bottom line is that the tariffs are hurting China at a time when China can ill-afford a trade war. This has brought Xi to the bargaining table. That’s a good thing.
And as for this nonsense about the US retreating from the world stage under Trump, what exactly do you want the US to do in an increasingly multipolar world? Start a war? It’s pretty much universally accepted that the US no longer has the comparative strength to stop China from seizing Taiwan or any other local strategic goal in theater. Economic pressure is the best tool available. Not pissing off almost every strategic ally the US has ever had would have been a good start. Let alone this apparently new nonsense about trying to make other countries pay for the privilege of having American soldiers in their country. Why should Americans care about pissing off foreign countries? We owe nothing to them, and the average American doesnt get any benefit from being allies with them. The only people who gain from these globalism policies are the American elite.Trump isn't perfect, but the closer we get to to isolationism, the better it is for us. As a card carrying member of the American elite why would Trump create a policy that hurts them? Not only is he one and benefits from what they benefit from. But he needs them all to continue to be elite so they can use his ultra elite golf courses, hotels and so on. So the real sheeple are those who think Trump would be working against the elite. He is clearly working for them. Like the worlds most obvious double agent. I agree. Trump is far from perfect. The fact that he was allowed to win is telling. But he is a lot better than the Obama, Bushs, Clintons, and Raegan He was probably threatened by the deep state since he did a 180 on a lot of his policies (the important ones, not the dumb ones like building a wall) edit; also by American elite i mean the financial juggernauts who actually run the country from the shadows, not a celebrity like Trump Pretty sure by all the deep state lore I've read he would have needed to be in cahoots from the start. Just to get as rich and powerful as he got even before he ran. Sorry mate you got grifted, he claimed to be one of you but really he is just a double agent sent from the Deep State to distract you from their real plan and push their own agenda.
i didnt get "grifted" because I never voted for/supported him in the first place.
I dont know what you think you are contesting, but it's nothing that I said. All I said some of his policies do benefit the average american [compared to previous administrations]. I never said he was the perfect champion of the average american. I never said Trump is harming the elite.
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United States42008 Posts
On March 11 2019 22:16 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 22:08 farvacola wrote:
Isolationism didn’t work before nukes, the internet, and global public health awareness, and it sure as hell won’t work now or moving forward. it worked
It brought us two world wars. America went isolationist, the world caught fire, America went “shit, was I meant to be watching that? I’ll pay attention now”, the world stopped being on fire, America forgot what it was meant to be doing.
The entire postwar status quo, from NATO to a demilitarized Japan, did not happen by accident and does not exist for no reason.
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On March 11 2019 23:40 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 23:17 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2019 22:09 BerserkSword wrote:On March 11 2019 22:02 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2019 21:58 BerserkSword wrote:On March 11 2019 21:30 iamthedave wrote:On March 11 2019 10:11 xDaunt wrote:
China certainly has economic problems beyond the impact of the tariffs, and they undoubtedly are causing more damage to China than the tariffs. But bottom line is that the tariffs are hurting China at a time when China can ill-afford a trade war. This has brought Xi to the bargaining table. That’s a good thing.
And as for this nonsense about the US retreating from the world stage under Trump, what exactly do you want the US to do in an increasingly multipolar world? Start a war? It’s pretty much universally accepted that the US no longer has the comparative strength to stop China from seizing Taiwan or any other local strategic goal in theater. Economic pressure is the best tool available. Not pissing off almost every strategic ally the US has ever had would have been a good start. Let alone this apparently new nonsense about trying to make other countries pay for the privilege of having American soldiers in their country. Why should Americans care about pissing off foreign countries? We owe nothing to them, and the average American doesnt get any benefit from being allies with them. The only people who gain from these globalism policies are the American elite. Trump isn't perfect, but the closer we get to to isolationism, the better it is for us. Well in this case, the US cares because that country is to the south of the US and a further crisis could spread across the region. We live in that region. Isolationism is a lie that people who crave simple solutions to reality. It's not a problem if the borders are secure. As I said previously, isolationism is appealing to people who wants simple answers to complex problems. The “secure borders” is this mythical idea that we can prevent free thinking humans from crossing borders with sheer force and threats of violence. Nations that were far more willing to us force and bypass whatever laws they have failed to do this. But America will somehow magically be able to do it. We should not give into your magical thinking on these subjects. Uhhh, not sure if you realize, but we can and do prevent humans from crossing borders through the use of force. Every country on the planet does so, to some extent
“We stop some people in a time of non-crisis” is not an answer to the topic at hand. When you asked why we concern ourselves with the fates of other nations, I pointed out that we lived on the same landmass as them. You when claimed that if we “secured the borders” enough we could keep any fallout from a foreign crisis at bay through sheer force of government will. I pointed out that history has proven that is impossible. Your magical thinking on foreign policy amounts to "ignore it until it goes away".
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EPT
