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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1168

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-28 17:32:22
February 28 2019 17:31 GMT
#23341
On March 01 2019 01:47 IgnE wrote:
why would you hide the rules from people who want to know what they are? seems cruel


Under the same rationale that (game company of your choice) doesn't divulge criteria or methods for detecting botting or cheating tools, I'd imagine. It's certainly cruel, but primarily to botters and cheaters (and to the false positives, but that's what appeals and reasoning are for).
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 28 2019 17:40 GMT
#23342
CPAC is going on right now and its everything you expect. Calling the old GOP the "GOP of capitulation" and saying the real racists are the liberals. A real win for the market place of ideas.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
mikedebo
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4341 Posts
February 28 2019 17:50 GMT
#23343
On March 01 2019 02:16 JimmiC wrote:
It looks like the US doesn't have the monopoly on leaders getting trouble for their actions. Israel's Netanyahu is going to be charged and it is possible that Trudeau in Canada will soon follow!

Netanyahu is charged with bribery, fraud and breach of trust.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/28/middleeast/israel-benjamin-netanyahu-indictment-intl/index.html


Trudeau is accused of putting undue pressure on the AG to not pursue charges on a big Quebec company for bribing Lybia.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/unlike-trump-trudeau-is-in-real-trouble/ar-BBUcBch?li=AAggNb9

Edit: I should mention that a change in leadership with two of the US's closest allies would have huge impacts on the US.


JT could have done literally nothing for the rest of his term and coasted to an easy minority. Instead he's doing his best to get the PCs re-elected as quickly as possible. What a dumbass.
I NEED A PHOTOSYNTHESIS! ||| 'airtoss' is an anagram of 'artosis' ||| SANGHOOOOOO ||| "No Korea? No problem. I have internet." -- Stardust
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 28 2019 17:56 GMT
#23344
Netanyahu is the much bigger deal, since he is the leader of the hardliners in Israel who are all about the west bank settlements. But I'm not convinced they can bring this case. The man seems political immortal.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 28 2019 18:45 GMT
#23345
On a policy driven note: The Democrats are doing work in the House. They just passed a bill to ensure background checks for all gun sales. And now they are working on a bill to end forced arbitration clauses, the garbage that is supposed to prevent litigation but just puts more power in the hands of employers. Because the employees don't pay private arbitration companies.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/28/18244752/google-organizers-fair-act-bill-forced-arbitration

Of course, all these bills are dead in the Senate because do nothing McConnell is still in charge.

On another note, the Verge did an amazing piece of content moderators in Facebook. The most troubling part of the piece is that Facebook's moderators are being radicalized by the very content they are monitoring. Further fuel on the fire that the regulations surrounding companies like Facebook, Youtube and Twitter need to be updated. Including the 230 of the Communications Decency Act of 1996.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/25/18229714/cognizant-facebook-content-moderator-interviews-trauma-working-conditions-arizona
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9618 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-28 18:55:12
February 28 2019 18:50 GMT
#23346
oh i’m sorry i thought this was the feedback thread.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
February 28 2019 19:10 GMT
#23347
On March 01 2019 02:31 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2019 01:47 IgnE wrote:
why would you hide the rules from people who want to know what they are? seems cruel


Under the same rationale that (game company of your choice) doesn't divulge criteria or methods for detecting botting or cheating tools, I'd imagine. It's certainly cruel, but primarily to botters and cheaters (and to the false positives, but that's what appeals and reasoning are for).


you know, I think a lot of sociopaths have a pretty good understanding of the rules. that’s what allows them to circumvent them. most people explicitly asking about the rules want, i think, two things: to understand the rules, and to understand their justification.

it seems like a lot of people here undervalue the social good provided by persuasive justification, especially justification as a rhetoric of the ethical.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
February 28 2019 19:19 GMT
#23348
On March 01 2019 04:10 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2019 02:31 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On March 01 2019 01:47 IgnE wrote:
why would you hide the rules from people who want to know what they are? seems cruel


Under the same rationale that (game company of your choice) doesn't divulge criteria or methods for detecting botting or cheating tools, I'd imagine. It's certainly cruel, but primarily to botters and cheaters (and to the false positives, but that's what appeals and reasoning are for).


you know, I think a lot of sociopaths have a pretty good understanding of the rules. that’s what allows them to circumvent them. most people explicitly asking about the rules want, i think, two things: to understand the rules, and to understand their justification.


I don't think point two is accurate actually. Most people just want to know what rules they have to follow and then go on with their day/life. It's a minority who want to know - or even particularly care - about the justification unless the rule is annoying or inconvenient in some fashion.

Like 'do not walk on the grass'. I doubt many people actually care about the reason behind it.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
mikedebo
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4341 Posts
February 28 2019 19:33 GMT
#23349
On March 01 2019 03:45 Plansix wrote:


On another note, the Verge did an amazing piece of content moderators in Facebook. The most troubling part of the piece is that Facebook's moderators are being radicalized by the very content they are monitoring. Further fuel on the fire that the regulations surrounding companies like Facebook, Youtube and Twitter need to be updated. Including the 230 of the Communications Decency Act of 1996.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/25/18229714/cognizant-facebook-content-moderator-interviews-trauma-working-conditions-arizona


This was a really great piece, thank you for sharing it.
I NEED A PHOTOSYNTHESIS! ||| 'airtoss' is an anagram of 'artosis' ||| SANGHOOOOOO ||| "No Korea? No problem. I have internet." -- Stardust
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
February 28 2019 19:55 GMT
#23350
On March 01 2019 00:29 xM(Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2019 23:37 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
On February 28 2019 23:29 xM(Z wrote:
the "heterogeneity and homogeneity -> Variance" is your(in layman's terms) "ethno-nationalism" lol!".
No. "ethno-nationalism" is not the same as heterogeneity and homogeneity or variance. That doesn't even make sense. They don't even interact. One is used in science, the other is politics, with totally different meanings.

It's like saying heterogeneity and homogeneity is your(in layman's terms) "democracy". lol!"

On February 28 2019 23:29 xM(Z wrote:
also, who said "that racism describes physiological differences between races"?; need source/quotes.
On February 28 2019 22:25 xM(Z wrote:or, because the word racism was equated with discrimination and prejudice so there's no word left to describe differences.


that was on the lines of:
Show nested quote +
An entry in the Oxford English Dictionary (2008) simply defines racialism as "[a]n earlier term than racism, but now largely superseded by it", and cites it in a 1902 quote.[12] The revised Oxford English Dictionary cites the shortened term "racism" in a quote from the following year, 1903.[13][14] It was first defined by the Oxford English Dictionary (2nd edition, 1989) as "[t]he theory that distinctive human characteristics and abilities are determined by race"; the same dictionary termed racism a synonym of racialism: "belief in the superiority of a particular race".
racialism, (what people used early on/since the beginnings of time/fuck know since when((assumed for the sake of argument/as placeholder, the origin and initial form is not known)), to differentiate between different groups of people; you morphed it into racism, gave it intent and heading(superiority, etc) and left the layman without the original meaning and the original word.
(mainly, you replaced an/the ancestral word and its meaning)

basically, people run to concepts that exemplify differences but reject the guilt. so, ethno-nationalism. now, before going <epithets>, realize that for some/many people, difference is good, is positive.
maybe i should've wrote "there's no loaded word left to describe differences", but come on ...

Edit: and those terms are similar in this context; they pertain to ethnicity(in research you use ethnicity when trying to not offend people by using the word race), ethnic variance.
"The theory that distinctive human characteristics and abilities are determined by race" has very little to do with Urinary bladder cancer or histology, unless you are seriously trying to tell me that ethno-nationalism is based upon incidence of Urinary bladder cancer and microvascular vasodilatory function.

They are also neither distinctive nor are abilities for that matter, so you fail even by your own defintions; what you wrote is garbage anyways.

Also, why the hell are you posting like fluidrone? It makes your posts almost impossible to understand, which is why people are talking around you about seperate political matters, rather than the total garbage you are writing.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-28 20:00:20
February 28 2019 19:58 GMT
#23351
In another showing of his cowardice when it comes to standing up to people in person, Trump completely balked on holding Kim accountable for Warmbier's death. Trump said he believes the lie that Kim had no knowledge of the circumstances surrounding his death despite blaming NKs leadership for the kids death in his 2018 SOTU and the fact that the arrest was an international incident that any dictator would be aware of.

Also, this serves as another instance of Trump taking a dictator at his word despite everything to the contrary, including from his own intelligence agencies. I think that is due to him being too feckless to stand up to them in person and admiring them.


IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
February 28 2019 20:03 GMT
#23352
On March 01 2019 04:19 iamthedave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2019 04:10 IgnE wrote:
On March 01 2019 02:31 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On March 01 2019 01:47 IgnE wrote:
why would you hide the rules from people who want to know what they are? seems cruel


Under the same rationale that (game company of your choice) doesn't divulge criteria or methods for detecting botting or cheating tools, I'd imagine. It's certainly cruel, but primarily to botters and cheaters (and to the false positives, but that's what appeals and reasoning are for).


you know, I think a lot of sociopaths have a pretty good understanding of the rules. that’s what allows them to circumvent them. most people explicitly asking about the rules want, i think, two things: to understand the rules, and to understand their justification.


I don't think point two is accurate actually. Most people just want to know what rules they have to follow and then go on with their day/life. It's a minority who want to know - or even particularly care - about the justification unless the rule is annoying or inconvenient in some fashion.

Like 'do not walk on the grass'. I doubt many people actually care about the reason behind it.


perhaps, but then most people dont ask what the rules are, they operate in one way until they are told to act differently. it seems to me that most people who respond to being told to act differently by asking the question are after something kore
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Proko
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1022 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-28 21:01:33
February 28 2019 20:54 GMT
#23353
Emperor Tang loves dictators. He wishes he could be one himself. Not because I think he's interested in autocracy, but simply because he wants everyone to tell him how great he is 100% of the time about everything. I think that's why he's playing softball with North Korea. In some weird way he wishes he was Kim Jung Un.
Caster duos should compliment each others' strengths. "You look very handsome today, Tasteless."
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
February 28 2019 21:24 GMT
#23354
Add that to the list of fascist leaders/dictators that Trump believes over his own all-American intelligence agencies. Gotta make America great again, by taking your adversaries at their word. That'll do it.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
February 28 2019 21:55 GMT
#23355
On March 01 2019 05:03 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2019 04:19 iamthedave wrote:
On March 01 2019 04:10 IgnE wrote:
On March 01 2019 02:31 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On March 01 2019 01:47 IgnE wrote:
why would you hide the rules from people who want to know what they are? seems cruel


Under the same rationale that (game company of your choice) doesn't divulge criteria or methods for detecting botting or cheating tools, I'd imagine. It's certainly cruel, but primarily to botters and cheaters (and to the false positives, but that's what appeals and reasoning are for).


you know, I think a lot of sociopaths have a pretty good understanding of the rules. that’s what allows them to circumvent them. most people explicitly asking about the rules want, i think, two things: to understand the rules, and to understand their justification.


I don't think point two is accurate actually. Most people just want to know what rules they have to follow and then go on with their day/life. It's a minority who want to know - or even particularly care - about the justification unless the rule is annoying or inconvenient in some fashion.

Like 'do not walk on the grass'. I doubt many people actually care about the reason behind it.


perhaps, but then most people dont ask what the rules are, they operate in one way until they are told to act differently. it seems to me that most people who respond to being told to act differently by asking the question are after something kore


Maybe it's just me and mine, but I always ask if I'm in an unfamiliar situation where I don't know the rules. I once asked about the proper way to do things in a fancy-ish restaurant because I'd never been in one before. Could be an English thing, but almost everyone I know is the same. We get into an unfamiliar position and we're all about asking to find out the state of play. Nobody asks 'why' though. It's all 'what are we meant to do? That? Okay, we'll all do that. Whew. Order is restored'.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12172 Posts
February 28 2019 22:23 GMT
#23356
On February 28 2019 22:25 xM(Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2019 12:19 Nebuchad wrote:
It's one of the ways in which we can demonstrate the intellectual bankruptcy of the right, btw. There are statements that are common within the right that should lead to racism, but at the same time they aren't allowed to say it, and so they don't, and they are left with a premise that has an obvious conclusion that they can't make.

It's more obvious in more extreme cases, for example differences in IQ (that I believe xDaunt is into? I don't want to put words in his mouth but I don't think I'm misremembering). If it is true that race is a factor in IQ, and that IQ is an important factor, then why wouldn't you be racist? It makes no sense to pretend people are the same if they are truly different. Racism is the only logical follow-up to this belief.

This one is more extreme but there are more common ones. "Black people commit more crimes" is one that we hear a lot if we discuss killings by police in the US. At this point we can point out that killings by police and criminality aren't related, and that's a fine response. But we can also ask ourselves, if someone believes that race is a factor in criminality, why wouldn't they draw the conclusion that racism is logical? They should.
or, because the word racism was equated with discrimination and prejudice so there's no word left to describe differences.
good thing though is that there are and will continue to be studies/research in medicine using racial differences to actually save lives.
random:
Show nested quote +
Urinary bladder cancer (UBC) has a high incidence rates in many southern and eastern European countries, in parts of Africa and the Middle East, and in North America. It exhibits a wide variety of histological types that goes from less aggressive to rapid-growing ones.
...Overall, non-Hispanic whites have the highest incidence rate, followed by blacks, Hispanic whites, and APIs. In the analysis of survival, significant racial differences exist when stratified by gender, age group, histological type, stage, location and treatment strategies. Racial differences exist among UBC patients in the United States in terms of characteristics, incidence, and survival. Future studies may collect and analyze more data for comprehensive description and interpretation of the racial differences.
or:
Show nested quote +
Black race is associated with impaired microvascular vasodilatory function, and greater large arterial wave reflections and stiffness. Because impairment in these vascular indices may be associated with worse long‐term outcomes, they may represent underlying mechanisms for the increased CVD risk in blacks.
there are more example like those and the interest for that kind of research is growing so you know, you can carry on up in here because where it matters, it is a thing.


Just thinking of you and your friends, about to have a challenging discussion about microvascular vasodilatory function, and being stopped by the idea that it's racist. Sad :/
No will to live, no wish to die
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-28 22:29:04
February 28 2019 22:28 GMT
#23357
On March 01 2019 06:55 iamthedave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2019 05:03 IgnE wrote:
On March 01 2019 04:19 iamthedave wrote:
On March 01 2019 04:10 IgnE wrote:
On March 01 2019 02:31 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On March 01 2019 01:47 IgnE wrote:
why would you hide the rules from people who want to know what they are? seems cruel


Under the same rationale that (game company of your choice) doesn't divulge criteria or methods for detecting botting or cheating tools, I'd imagine. It's certainly cruel, but primarily to botters and cheaters (and to the false positives, but that's what appeals and reasoning are for).


you know, I think a lot of sociopaths have a pretty good understanding of the rules. that’s what allows them to circumvent them. most people explicitly asking about the rules want, i think, two things: to understand the rules, and to understand their justification.


I don't think point two is accurate actually. Most people just want to know what rules they have to follow and then go on with their day/life. It's a minority who want to know - or even particularly care - about the justification unless the rule is annoying or inconvenient in some fashion.

Like 'do not walk on the grass'. I doubt many people actually care about the reason behind it.


perhaps, but then most people dont ask what the rules are, they operate in one way until they are told to act differently. it seems to me that most people who respond to being told to act differently by asking the question are after something kore


Maybe it's just me and mine, but I always ask if I'm in an unfamiliar situation where I don't know the rules. I once asked about the proper way to do things in a fancy-ish restaurant because I'd never been in one before. Could be an English thing, but almost everyone I know is the same. We get into an unfamiliar position and we're all about asking to find out the state of play. Nobody asks 'why' though. It's all 'what are we meant to do? That? Okay, we'll all do that. Whew. Order is restored'.
This is a rabbit hole you don't want to go down.
From my limited and indirect experience with individuals from the incel community, I assume, that they don't want to know the rules so they can play by them. They want to know the rules so they can plan a straight path that leads them to victory, i.e., sex. It's not about understanding human interaction and realising that every woman /potential partner can be different and functions by a different ruleset, so to speak, but about gaming the system, cracking the code, making it impossible for the "female" to resist giving sex.

I'll quote a famous pirate here: "the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules"

There are no god damn set in stone rules that will, inevitably, lead you to your goal of doing the thing.
It's so incredibly aggravating that people think that the code is a thing. Or even defend others "simply asking for the rules".
Mind-boggling.
passive quaranstream fan
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11507 Posts
February 28 2019 22:36 GMT
#23358
On March 01 2019 06:55 iamthedave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2019 05:03 IgnE wrote:
On March 01 2019 04:19 iamthedave wrote:
On March 01 2019 04:10 IgnE wrote:
On March 01 2019 02:31 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On March 01 2019 01:47 IgnE wrote:
why would you hide the rules from people who want to know what they are? seems cruel


Under the same rationale that (game company of your choice) doesn't divulge criteria or methods for detecting botting or cheating tools, I'd imagine. It's certainly cruel, but primarily to botters and cheaters (and to the false positives, but that's what appeals and reasoning are for).


you know, I think a lot of sociopaths have a pretty good understanding of the rules. that’s what allows them to circumvent them. most people explicitly asking about the rules want, i think, two things: to understand the rules, and to understand their justification.


I don't think point two is accurate actually. Most people just want to know what rules they have to follow and then go on with their day/life. It's a minority who want to know - or even particularly care - about the justification unless the rule is annoying or inconvenient in some fashion.

Like 'do not walk on the grass'. I doubt many people actually care about the reason behind it.


perhaps, but then most people dont ask what the rules are, they operate in one way until they are told to act differently. it seems to me that most people who respond to being told to act differently by asking the question are after something kore


Maybe it's just me and mine, but I always ask if I'm in an unfamiliar situation where I don't know the rules. I once asked about the proper way to do things in a fancy-ish restaurant because I'd never been in one before. Could be an English thing, but almost everyone I know is the same. We get into an unfamiliar position and we're all about asking to find out the state of play. Nobody asks 'why' though. It's all 'what are we meant to do? That? Okay, we'll all do that. Whew. Order is restored'.


There is a difference between that and the to me classical example of this "what are the rules???" that is being discussed here, which is the question "How can i have sex with a women without it being rape/sexual harassment of some sort??? What are the rules for that???" which seems to appear every time the discussion turns to consent and the like.

The rules are quite simple: Make very sure that the other person is also okay with everything that you are doing, even if that means not doing something that you want to do. And if you are unsure, don't do it.

However, the people asking that question usually do not want that answer. Instead, they want all sorts of edge cases clearly defined, quite obviously with the goal of finding some sort of loophole. "Can i do stuff if she is drunk?" "How drunk can she be?" "What if she only had one beer?" "what if i am also drunk?" "How drunk do i have to be for the "she is drunk" rule to not apply anymore?" "what if i can't quite understand what she said, but am sure that she agreed?" etc... (This discussion has happened in this thread multiple times already)

The goal is not to find an agreed upon safe behaviour, it is to find the minimum amount of compliance to social standards while still doing the maximum amount of selfish things that you can get away with.

Some rules work better if they are not explicitly concretely formulated in lawyerspeak, and as long as people actually want to comply with the spirit of the rule that is not a problem. It only becomes a problem when people want to find ways to violate the spirit of the rules while barely staying within the letter of the law.
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
February 28 2019 22:37 GMT
#23359
Hard boundaries are very sticky when you have someone who wants to abuse it, or if you have a political or religious discussion or something similar. Most of the time, the spirit of the rule is more important than the letter, so when someone's asking as to the exact letter, it's probably not to play nicely by the spirit. And if you ask me, skirting close to the line for a long time is even worse than breaking a rule once and getting it over with. The latter is clean and simple, the former has months or possibly years of people going "why isn't this guy being dealt with?"
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
February 28 2019 22:40 GMT
#23360
This might seem really meta, but I have no idea what igne is asking for when he talking about hiding the rules. Hiding what rules? Incel rules or what is negatively viewed as racist rules? Every society have hidden social rules.
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