Frank Maas is the Ergonomics Expert at TheSandbox, a Deliberate Practice training group for Starcraft 2. The Sandbox has been helping players to improve and find practice partners for over 1.5 years, but one of the things we haven't done too much of is create content that is available to the public. While all the specialists are generally very busy we'll be doing our best to squeeze out time to create more content like this in the future. Hope you enjoy:
Disclaimer: Tips and coping skills to avoid common pitfalls and to help prevent regression, as well as general information to get you on your way is what we aim to provide primarily. None of the information found in this video is tailored to meet the needs of specific individual situations and factors, and as such should not be applied as a be-all end-all solution. For tailor-made, professional guidance which takes into account all specific factors pertaining to you, the individual, we strongly recommend seeking out a professional who specializes in your problem area (e.g. physio therapist, ergonomics therapist, psychologist). All the information provided in this video is explicitly provided as general guideline or advice based on experience.
What is eSports Ergonomics? For our purposes, we'll define eSports Ergonomics as: Creating the most efficient, user-friendly and responsible situation of human interaction with tools and systems, and activities performed. Not only adapting the environment and equipment to suit the needs of the individual, but also the adaptation of the individual to maximize the effect of use and minimize the negative side-effects of activity and use.
Posture, Breathing, Tension, Mentality, and getting into shape vs performing an eSport all work as a big chain. Improving one of these things with have synergistic effects on the others. The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. You are only as strong as your weakest link. Here's some guidlines on how to improve your posture while competing
Posture
Knees at 90 degrees
Back at 90-135 degrees (best to watch video for example)
Vary the angle of your back and legs or take micro breaks to reduce pain
Use posture correcting cushions (check /w professional to determine which one is right for you)
Screen Height: Sitting up and looking straight ahead should put your eyes level with the top third of your screen.
Neck: Crown of the head should be directly above spine/sacrum (best to watch video for example)
Arms, Shoulders, rest on desk or arm rests. Avoid hovering or putting your mouse/keyboard at the edge of the desk unless you have significant musculature from similar activities (like extensive piano practice). Even so, resting the arms on the desk will result in longer sessions with less fatigue, as will all of the guidelines listed above.
Micro Breaks
Every 25-30 minutes
Should last 2-5 minutes
Move around
Do not sit or look at a screen of any kind
Refresh eyes by looking at something in the distance
Stretches & Exercises
Leave 24-48 hours of rest between stretching/exercise sessions
Visit an expert to get customized stretches and exercise for you. Each body is different, there is no one-size-fits all regimen.
Relaxation & Meditation
Breath
Be aware of your body and tension
Take meditation breaks
Pain, Coping Skills & Psychosomatic Ails
Avoiding the motion or activity that causes pain can sometimes cause more pain. Don't assume you are okay simply because you've adjusted your posture to avoid a particular pain.
Emotions and stress effect the body. Consider your emotional state before, during, and after playing. Attempt to deal with these emotions before they become overwhelming and intense. It is easier to release a 3 out of 10 level of emotion and get back to 0 multiple times per day than it is to wait until the emotion hits maximum intensity to address it.
When to see a specialist
If you stop the pain causing activity and the pain is still there a few hours later, see a specialist
If you decrease, (but not stop) the pain causing activity and the pain decreases or stops all together, slowly build up practice sessions taking breaks when you feel pain.
Deliberate Practice for Ergonomics Focus, Repetition:
Spend a practice session on a lower MMR, unranked, vs ai, or similar.
Allow your gameplay to go on autopilot and focus primarily on your Breath, Posture, Tension etc.
Go through the checklists provided above mentally as you play, checking in with your body and listening to what it is telling you.
Feedback:
Use a camera to record these sessions from different angles.
Compare your current session to the first attempt or a recording of your normal playing posture before applying these techniques
Balance a book on your head after setting up in optimal posture
See how long you can keep it up. Kappa
Common Misconceptions and Conclusion There are a lot of people who will answer the question of pain and ergonomics in eSports by saying things like, "watch this video with stretches and do them every time before you play" (neglecting to mention a 24-48 hour rest cycle) or "put your mouse and keyboard to the very edge of your desk and use one of your wrist bones as an anchor" (neglecting to mention the prerequisite musculature for this kind of posture). We hope that through this guide you have come to understand the deficiencies in these statements and in the inaccurate statements and misinformation that are likely to come. Each body is different based not only on genetics, but experience that has shaped the different muscles of the body. You'll have likely noticed by now the #1 thing to do is make an appointment with a specialist. It's probably not a particularly appealing piece of advice. You may have to do some research to find one in your area, check your health insurance, or even pay out of pocket, there may be a stigma in your culture that gives you a negative emotional response when you hear the word "Therapist". But we can't stress it enough, just one visit to a physiotherapist or other appropriate professional will give you the best stretching/exercise routine, chair/cushion recommendation, and help you to understand your particular body so that you can have an optimal, pain-free, competitive gaming experience.
lower mouse dpi really helped release tension on my wrists, i have to play twice as many games to feel the same fatigue i used to feel at at 1800 dpi (currently at 750 now)
On February 16 2016 06:48 EJK wrote: lower mouse dpi really helped release tension on my wrists, i have to play twice as many games to feel the same fatigue i used to feel at at 1800 dpi (currently at 750 now)
With 6/11 in windows and 51% ingame sensitivity? And 1080p resolution?
Thread bookmarked to remember to do some of those stuff x) GJ!
On February 16 2016 06:48 EJK wrote: lower mouse dpi really helped release tension on my wrists, i have to play twice as many games to feel the same fatigue i used to feel at at 1800 dpi (currently at 750 now)
I've heard this before but I don't understand it really... lower dpi means you have to movee the mouse more so how does that bring you less fatigue?
On February 16 2016 06:48 EJK wrote: lower mouse dpi really helped release tension on my wrists, i have to play twice as many games to feel the same fatigue i used to feel at at 1800 dpi (currently at 750 now)
I've heard this before but I don't understand it really... lower dpi means you have to movee the mouse more so how does that bring you less fatigue?
It makes you use your arm more instead of your wrist which makes less tension in your wrist.
* My #1 learning from workplace, besides taking breaks, which should be kinda obvious in doing any kind of work: Stand up straight and let your arms fall to the sides. Notice your wrists are not twisted in any direction. Now put your arms up and go to type on your keyboard or use your regular mouse. Notice that you bend your wrists inwards to type. This is an unnatural position - our bodies are not meant to twist like this for long periods of time. People who play piano also deal with this. * Think of how you hold a coffee cup while resting your arm on a table. Your hand is perpendicular to the table. A vertical mouse helps keep this natural form. * Move the mouse with your upper arm, not with your wrist. Your upper arm is much stronger than your wrist. This takes a lot of practice to get used to. * Learn to mouse with both hands (unfortunately for a game like Starcraft, that means learning an entirely new set of keyboard shortcuts). There are actually vertical mice for both left and right handers as well. * Similar to mousing, some keyboards can be adjusted in ways that let you type closer to a "perpendicular hand" position. I have mentioned the Goldtouch earlier but there are other brands that do the same thing. Even the "single piece" keyboards tend to curve so that you aren't bending your wrists as much as regular flat keyboards.
Beyond that...
* If you can, find a way to switch between standing and sitting while you work at a computer. There are a lot of creative ways to do this, the most fancy of them being a sit-stand desk and probably the least fancy being a two monitor setup with a bunch of boxes and wireless keyboard/mouse of sorts * Monitor should be no more than an arm's length away from eyes. * Font size should be large enough that you don't need to lean forward and read text (difficult depending on the game
When I started working full time at this company, I played a lot of games, and also a lot of piano. Plus I was on a computer most of the day at my 9-5. I felt tingling in my wrists and hands every week, even some tight soreness occasionally. It's been ~7 years since I switched to "upright" hand postures (and getting new gear as I linked above), and I haven't had any "computer" related physical stress since then.
On February 16 2016 06:48 EJK wrote: lower mouse dpi really helped release tension on my wrists, i have to play twice as many games to feel the same fatigue i used to feel at at 1800 dpi (currently at 750 now)
I've heard this before but I don't understand it really... lower dpi means you have to movee the mouse more so how does that bring you less fatigue?
higher DPI means using smaller and more fragile muscles to be accurate with the mouse. Distributing the work between the different muscles helps to avoid overworking a particular group.
Primelot, couldn't possibly guess. Way too many variables at play. Generally people feel better after lowering their DPI but that doesn't mean exceptions won't exist. From what i've read the danger zone hits at around 2000 or so. Personally I injured my wrist at 3700.
As someone who has had an RSI in the past but thankfully haven't had to deal with it in years I'll give the best protip IMO. Get an L shaped desk!
Not exactly my desk but its reasonably close. I got rid of the keyboard tray, put the keyboard and mouse on the desk top. Arms are always resting on the desk 1000000% supported at all times on the same level. The only draw back is it takes up more space than a normal desk. But I'll never use a different style desk again, not worth it.
Arms, Shoulders, rest on desk or arm rests. Avoid hovering or putting your mouse/keyboard at the edge of the desk unless you have significant musculature from similar activities (like extensive piano practice). Even so, resting the arms on the desk will result in longer sessions with less fatigue, as will all of the guidelines listed above.
Arms at a 90° angle, elbows almost below the shoulder, is best practice.. Which means using arm rests and putting the mouse/keyboard at the edge of the desk.. What you are saying is contradictive.
Leave 24-48 hours of rest between stretching/exercise sessions
Can you elaborate on this? I'm an advanced powerlifter and I stretch multiple times a day (static ánd dynamic), why would you want to leave 24-48 hours between stretching or exercising, especially stretching? Also I don't see "tips to avoid cold hands" anywhere.. Cold hands can have multiple causes. One of them is not eating enough or frequently enough, or spiking your bloodsugar constantly with sweets. Another factor would be adrenaline rushes, from intense playing. It moves blood to your muscles, away from your extremities. Less bloodflow = less warmth = cold extremities.
The 24-48 hours things for exercising directly depends on the intensity of the exercising (which itself is relative to your physical condition) ; ie doing a low amount of pushups won't ask for as much rest as lifting heavy weights... And I can't see how it can be true for stretching ; unless you mean hardcore, sportslike stretching sessions of 1+ hour, casual 2-minute stretching like what players typically do before games is fine and you should not wait 24 hours between two streches, because that'd make the stretching utterly useless^^ Apart from that this seems good advice (though there's nothing about not having hunched shoulders?), especially the part about your whole forearm having to rest on the desk.
On February 16 2016 06:48 EJK wrote: lower mouse dpi really helped release tension on my wrists, i have to play twice as many games to feel the same fatigue i used to feel at at 1800 dpi (currently at 750 now)
With 6/11 in windows and 51% ingame sensitivity? And 1080p resolution?
Thread bookmarked to remember to do some of those stuff x) GJ!
What is the deal with those settings? Isn't it bette rto turn the ingame sensitivity off completly? Does it not manipulate your mouse sens? Sorry for the bit of topic.
I actually just set my desk 20 cm lower than it was and I'll see how that goes
Arms, Shoulders, rest on desk or arm rests. Avoid hovering or putting your mouse/keyboard at the edge of the desk unless you have significant musculature from similar activities (like extensive piano practice). Even so, resting the arms on the desk will result in longer sessions with less fatigue, as will all of the guidelines listed above.
Arms at a 90° angle, elbows almost below the shoulder, is best practice.. Which means using arm rests and putting the mouse/keyboard at the edge of the desk.. What you are saying is contradictive.
Leave 24-48 hours of rest between stretching/exercise sessions
Can you elaborate on this? I'm an advanced powerlifter and I stretch multiple times a day (static ánd dynamic), why would you want to leave 24-48 hours between stretching or exercising, especially stretching? Also I don't see "tips to avoid cold hands" anywhere.. Cold hands can have multiple causes. One of them is not eating enough or frequently enough, or spiking your bloodsugar constantly with sweets. Another factor would be adrenaline rushes, from intense playing. It moves blood to your muscles, away from your extremities. Less bloodflow = less warmth = cold extremities.
The angle is very important, but in order to get as much information in the video as possible while keeping it short, I have not covered every single topic in as much detail as I'd like.
Basically the gist of it is, that if you have adjustable arm rests that allow for your arms to be at the 90 degree angle, matching the height of the desk exactly, yes you can do it like that and it's fine. Oftentimes though, it is really hard to find a chair that is optimized enough for your size, posture, distance between arm and armrest and more. In these cases I'd generally recommend putting your arms on the desk, with the same rules applying regarding angle and posture. Of course this also depends on the level of customization of your attributes and furniture, but is generally easier to recreate than buying a special chair that fits ergonomic needs perfectly.
As for the second question: The 24-48 hour rule applies to heavy stretching sessions of 30 mins to an hour, and exercising until you get close to your physical limit. This is just a general timeframe of rest, and once again depends on the eating pattern, recovery speed, physical health and to what degree the person in question has to tax his or her body on an average day. If you powerlift or train to failure you could do with 1 training every 5 days, do some light stretches during some of the micro breaks (not all of them). The general rule of thumb is: Everything in balance. Static and dynamic stretches are way more important in your specific situation than for a player trying to casually maintain a healthy physical state while playing starcraft 2-3 hours a day, for example.
The cold hand part is mostly a blood flow issue that is influenced by heart rate, adrenaline as you say, posture, wether or not you take frequent breaks to move around, tension from either stress or less than ideal ergonomic setups. One of the topics I did not cover is the eating habits and patterns. The less energy you spend the less you have to fuel up (SC2 is also mentally taxing so a banana or sweet every once in a while helps with focus), but the amount and frequency depends on the individual again, which is why I strongly recommend seeing a specialist to see what fits you, the individual, best.
In conclusion, the main point we are trying to get across is that you should always seek professionals to guide you in your specific situation, and to not take quick tip videos and conventional wisdom as the ultimate guide to health, which is why the information provided is mostly general with a focus on common sense and removal of stigma.
On February 16 2016 06:48 EJK wrote: lower mouse dpi really helped release tension on my wrists, i have to play twice as many games to feel the same fatigue i used to feel at at 1800 dpi (currently at 750 now)
With 6/11 in windows and 51% ingame sensitivity? And 1080p resolution?
Thread bookmarked to remember to do some of those stuff x) GJ!
What is the deal with those settings? Isn't it bette rto turn the ingame sensitivity off completly? Does it not manipulate your mouse sens? Sorry for the bit of topic.
I actually just set my desk 20 cm lower than it was and I'll see how that goes
If EJK has it off i'm still curious to know if he really plays at 6/11 on a 1080p setting with 750 dpi because that's more than 6 centimeters mouse movement required to go from one edge of the screen to the other if i'm not mistaken.
I tried 800 dpi on my 1366*768 resolution which is faster than that and it felt super slow, maybe i should try again.
Hello, left hand issues with 2 fingers in particular! Therapists didnt find anything same as doctor and checked over everything setup wise... apparently perfect got any ideas?
first of all, thank you very much for the thread and video, it's a wonderful reminder.
but i'd also like to add in different light, please don't over-focus on all of these things as a low level gamer, like stretches, warm up games, etc. i find a lot of players put a lot of extra stress and expectations on themselves without assessing their actual strengths and weaknesses prior to practice. for newer or lower level players, please just focus on spending money at all times. higher money during lategame off 3-4 bases is normal, but high money off 1-2 bases is not, focus on things like those and you're naturally get better, and then you can start creating routines for yourself as displayed in this video.
if u r an overweight, smoker with AB blood type make damn sure to stretch out between games to avoid blood clots. find out if you have factor V in your blood and if you do... stretch out even more.
when it comes to blood clots an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
When going to an "expert" to check the back type before buying some support for the back, what would that "expert" be? Regular doctor, chiropractor? Something else?
On February 17 2016 04:29 blae000 wrote: When going to an "expert" to check the back type before buying some support for the back, what would that "expert" be? Regular doctor, chiropractor? Something else?
Physiotherapists for exercises, stretches, posture, recovery times and routines tailored to your specific body and health status. (Some of them also have McKenzie therapy experience, so they can provide information for posture and back/neck mobilization in a more detailed way)
Ergonomic therapists for posture, setup specific to you. A fair warning though that most ergonomic therapists are unfamiliar with gaming and will generally not take into account the required mobility you'd need to have to play SC2 at high level for example. In those cases explain to them how it works, and what tips and advice they have to create the best possible situation around it. This is only relevant at higher levels of performance.
Chiropractor is more mobility/posture focused, and are generally helpful when you have radiated pain from entrapments.
On February 17 2016 03:33 SC2FeaR wrote: Hello, left hand issues with 2 fingers in particular! Therapists didnt find anything same as doctor and checked over everything setup wise... apparently perfect got any ideas?
The real questions are which kind of issues and which fingers though
I'm a bit confused now how to sit the best way, so i have a Need for Seat Chair with armrests which i can change how i like it. At the Moment i sit like you showed if i had none, just my keyboard a bit lower then my Mouse. So should i now Sit like Pro Gamers like Zest/ Taeja ( http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=bbe76e-1455757103.png i can't link it directly fml ) because i have the Armrest or should i just put everything higher like you showed or is my current position good?
Also if i try to Practice like 8 - 12 Hours a day which i sometimes do for a week or so, the last time my Wrist hurted a bit, but i also didn't streched that much, would you say i could practice that amount longer then a week or so, strech alot like what i do now ( Micro Breaks) or would you say that's too much? thanks in Advance and thank you for the awesome work you both are doing
On February 18 2016 09:44 Primelot wrote: I'm a bit confused now how to sit the best way, so i have a Need for Seat Chair with armrests which i can change how i like it. At the Moment i sit like you showed if i had none, just my keyboard a bit lower then my Mouse. So should i now Sit like Pro Gamers like Zest/ Taeja ( http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=bbe76e-1455757103.png i can't link it directly fml ) because i have the Armrest or should i just put everything higher like you showed or is my current position good?
Also if i try to Practice like 8 - 12 Hours a day which i sometimes do for a week or so, the last time my Wrist hurted a bit, but i also didn't streched that much, would you say i could practice that amount longer then a week or so, strech alot like what i do now ( Micro Breaks) or would you say that's too much? thanks in Advance and thank you for the awesome work you both are doing
I will focus on your question about practice first. In general, if playing starts hurting you, this is a good indicator of where your physical limit lies within the ergonomic setup that you currently have, and I strongly recommend not pushing that limit via play. Factors like stress, diet, muscle strength, muscle endurance and muscle fatigue from daily activities outside of SC2 can cause a fluctuation of this limit that cannot be pinpointed to one singular factor, but only to the sum of them. Measuring the time it takes you to feel pain or heavy fatigue while playing for longer time periods is nice but not as efficient as making a judgment call on your limit on a "per experience" basis. On day one you finish after three hours, on day two this might be eight, while on day three you barely hit two hours.
If you want to train hard for a longer period of time, the best advice I can give you is as follows: Prevention of injury is the best cure. It is wise to go see a physiotherapist, explain your endeavour to him and let him devise a custom exercise and stretch routine for your specific physical build, health, diet and daily activity schedule (including SC2). This will most likely include a slow but efficient routine that slowly trains your muscles and motor neurons to endure and adapt to progressively longer bouts of play.
As for your sitting posture question, if your arm rests from the chair match your physical build really well when you set them up, e.g. you can relax your shoulders, hold up your neck well, have good angles when it comes to arms and legs and have it at the exact height of your desk (preventing high pressure on a small area of say the wrist), you can use the arm rests just fine. Still keep track of how it feels, if it starts to discomfort you often or even causes pain, stop, reconfigure and try again. It's a finetuning process which is ever so slightly different for every person. Seeking feedback from an ergonomic professional in your region who can actually check out your setup in person would be best, provided you explain to the professional exactly what you do, how you do it and how it taxes you.
Finally, we provide only general guidelines and ideas. I cannot stress the following point enough: Always seek out professionals if you are serious about your health, especially if you want to do something professionally, even more so when it is SC2.
The info you provided is very limited. Is the left hand your keyboard or mouse hand? What kind of experts have you visited exactly? What type of feedback was provided? For you I strongly recommend coordinating with a physiotherapist to uncover whether or not this issue is caused by fatigue, limited mobility or entrapments (if the problems persist, MRI/echo can often give insight if it starts limiting your daily activities), and so on. Make sure to keep building up muscle strength and endurance of the upper body meanwhile. I hope you can figure it out!
The advice on how to place your arm has always confused me with respect to the angle your hand ends up taking.
When I was learning posture for piano, what I gathered was that you are looking at elbow height and knuckle height. You want them to be similar so that your wrist isn't bent too far back when you strike the keys.
If I put my elbow on the table and my wrist on the table and then I bend my hand back so that my fingers can grip my mouse, my wrist is not in its best position for comfort and power. I have to exert more effort to use my fingers and wrist in that position. Given that your wrist is going to have to bend back to get your hand over the mouse, it feels better to have the elbow slightly lower than the desk (preferably resting on an armrest) so that your forearm is coming up at an angle. The wrist rests on the edge of the desk and the knuckle to forearm angle stays in the most powerful range for wrist and finger use.
Going back to the piano, imagine that someone about to play the piano has a mouse pushed under their hands and must bend back their wrists to accommodate it. Obviously they're no longer in the optimal position for finger and wrist use -- they were in the optimal position before and now their wrist is bent back from there. I think the desk posture you describe with respect to forearms/wrists would be correct if there was no mouse and you were depressing keys like the piano but the mouse height means adjustments must be made. Elbows should feel "high" for piano because your hand goes flat and depresses keys. Elbows should feel "low" for mouse because your hand bends back and mouse clicks are relatively shallow and insignificant compared to piano key presses.
On February 19 2016 00:03 NonY wrote: The advice on how to place your arm has always confused me with respect to the angle your hand ends up taking.
When I was learning posture for piano, what I gathered was that you are looking at elbow height and knuckle height. You want them to be similar so that your wrist isn't bent too far back when you strike the keys.
If I put my elbow on the table and my wrist on the table and then I bend my hand back so that my fingers can grip my mouse, my wrist is not in its best position for comfort and power. I have to exert more effort to use my fingers and wrist in that position. Given that your wrist is going to have to bend back to get your hand over the mouse, it feels better to have the elbow slightly lower than the desk (preferably resting on an armrest) so that your forearm is coming up at an angle. The wrist rests on the edge of the desk and the knuckle to forearm angle stays in the most powerful range for wrist and finger use.
Going back to the piano, imagine that someone about to play the piano has a mouse pushed under their hands and must bend back their wrists to accommodate it. Obviously they're no longer in the optimal position for finger and wrist use -- they were in the optimal position before and now their wrist is bent back from there. I think the desk posture you describe with respect to forearms/wrists would be correct if there was no mouse and you were depressing keys like the piano but the mouse height means adjustments must be made. Elbows should feel "high" for piano because your hand goes flat and depresses keys. Elbows should feel "low" for mouse because your hand bends back and mouse clicks are relatively shallow and insignificant compared to piano key presses.
You raise an interesting point here regarding the ergonomic setup used for playing the piano compared to keyboard and mouse usage, specifically when it comes to playing games with a high action per minute requirement. This is still a grey area since the "extreme" usage of computer input devices has not yet been explored in as many studies, being a relatively new user application of technology.
The attention for me shifts to the relative impact of having your wrists resting on the edge of the desk versus the impact of having a slightly more limiting angle of the hand in relation to the elbow. Both are not the ideal situation, but depending on your individual physical build and traits, one may suit person A better while the other suits person B better. There are many tools and instruments which do not match the ideal ergonomic setting, yet still get used in practice by the majority of people, an inevitability. There will need to be an optimization of settings surrounding keyboard/mouse gaming setups not only in pheripherals and chairs, but also desks with inclines and such. For now, empirical testing for ones individual situation with help of professional support seems wisest to determine which of the two positions fits one the most (as an example). The position we show in the video has been quite succesful within a group of people with physical injuries from gaming (that I know of, and with feedback from PT and ergonomics), but every posture and positioning is still debatable at this point.
Hey, so its my keyboard hand and I went to a sport specialist here who diagnosted tendonitis in 4th and 5th finger. It feels like my fingers are dragging down after 1-2 hours which used to be 8 hours then 6 etc.Therapy was supposed to heal it but they are not sure where exactly my pain is coming from and what exactly it is and how to fix it since the diagnose is apparently wrong or not quite correct ?
On February 21 2016 03:35 SC2FeaR wrote: Hey, so its my keyboard hand and I went to a sport specialist here who diagnosted tendonitis in 4th and 5th finger. It feels like my fingers are dragging down after 1-2 hours which used to be 8 hours then 6 etc.Therapy was supposed to heal it but they are not sure where exactly my pain is coming from and what exactly it is and how to fix it since the diagnose is apparently wrong or not quite correct ?
as any musician who has battled tendonitis can attest it can be really tough to fully recover.
if it is tendonitis it'll heal slowly because tendons have low circulation. if you want top notch diagnosis find a sports medicine clinic that is run by an MD; the clinic should have an orthopedic surgeon and acupuncturist on staff. word of mouth works best for finding a good sports medicine clinic. as far as a solid diagnosis goes : x-ray and ultrasound are 2 tools they might use.
if the MD is good and is unsure of the diagnosis he'll start referring you to the surgeon or a hand specialist of some kind.
find out from the previous diagnostician EXACTLY which tendons he/she suspects are the problem. As an example, there is a huge difference between lateral epicondylitis and medial epicondylitis. Braces are for more effective in recovering from lateral... and not so with medial. Stretching exercises most effective for each are also different even though both forms of tendonitis present elbow pain.
Very interesting video, i think i'll change a lot of things after seeing it. I would be very interested in is seeing is a study on how efficiently improve mechanics at a physical level. As an ex amateur high level free climber i know that rest days are essential to make the training effective (as well expleined in the video) and to reduce the risk of injuries, what i ask myself is if that is necessary also in a game like starcraft. If that is true, a pro playing 8 hours at day without rest days could underperform or not get in shape quickly cause his body has no time to recover. Also a thing i learned from climbing is that you cant really reinforce your tendons but only learn how to warm up properly and make them work at maximal efficienty minimizing the risk of injuries. A question i have is what there is beyond mechanics improvement at a physical level (i know its not only a physical improvement), nerves strengthening maybe?
On February 16 2016 06:48 EJK wrote: lower mouse dpi really helped release tension on my wrists, i have to play twice as many games to feel the same fatigue i used to feel at at 1800 dpi (currently at 750 now)
Yeah, that's fairly common
If EJK has it off i'm still curious to know if he really plays at 6/11 on a 1080p setting with 750 dpi because that's more than 6 centimeters mouse movement required to go from one edge of the screen to the other if i'm not mistaken.
It's not a particularly low sens, you're just used to something more like his original sens which is on the high side. Here's a vid of one of the better mouse osu players at 800dpi 1920x1080. I use this sens too after a 5-year rollercoaster between 3200dpi +acceleration and 360dpi 1:1 on four different mice to try a lot of values and improve my mouse aim + comfort. + Show Spoiler +
I tried 800 dpi on my 1366*768 resolution which is faster than that and it felt super slow
You changed your sensitivity to something that you're not used to and it feels wrong - that happens to everyone, especially the people who stuck to one sens for a very long time and only know how to use a mouse in a certain narrow sens range.
You have to break in a new set of muscle memory - or if you've never used similar before, develop it from scratch which can take a while.
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I've heard this before but I don't understand it really... lower dpi means you have to movee the mouse more so how does that bring you less fatigue?
When you're playing at a high sensitivity, you have to squeeze your wrist+fingers a lot more to get a similar level of accuracy because a minor error will make you miss your target by a larger distance; you also tend to use smaller/less parts of your fingers/hand/wrist etc the higher sens you go.
It's usually tension that causes fatigue - or even injury in more extreme cases. I've had my share of minor wrist and hand injuries from using a mouse and a graphics tablet wrongly (almost all of them from regularly tensing my hand inappropriately), and take care of it (and myself) more because of that.
Playing at a medium or medium-low sensitivity lets you relax the grip more. That's not specific to a mouse. To roughly define sensitivity ranges for 2d stuff (like moving mouse on a desktop or playing starcraft/osu) i'll say:
low = 2 inches to cross vertical space of screen (540dpi on 1080p) medium = 1 inch (1080dpi on 1080p) high = 0.5 inches (2160dpi on 1080p)
those can be scaled to be independant of monitor resolution as it's used in the scale, for example on 768p you'd use 768dpi instead of 1080dpi for the same feeling and hand movement. That's all assuming unscaled input (no positive or negative acceleration, no other scaling) so that 1 sensor count is 1 pixel moved, as that's the best way to use a mouse.
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what i ask myself is if that is necessary also in a game like starcraft. If that is true, a pro playing 8 hours at day without rest days could underperform or not get in shape quickly cause his body has no time to recover.
Rest time (solid sleep, etc) is essential for learning and a surprising amount of stuff considering all that the brain is responsible for, it's not just about repairing damage to your body in the ways that you'd cause it from physical training. I don't have any particular source there but there should be plenty of info on google
On February 16 2016 06:48 EJK wrote: lower mouse dpi really helped release tension on my wrists, i have to play twice as many games to feel the same fatigue i used to feel at at 1800 dpi (currently at 750 now)
If EJK has it off i'm still curious to know if he really plays at 6/11 on a 1080p setting with 750 dpi because that's more than 6 centimeters mouse movement required to go from one edge of the screen to the other if i'm not mistaken.
It's not a particularly low sens, you're just used to something more like his original sens which is on the high side. Here's a vid of one of the better mouse osu players at 800dpi 1920x1080. I use this sens too after a 5-year rollercoaster between 3200dpi +acceleration and 360dpi 1:1 on four different mice to try a lot of values and improve my mouse aim + comfort. + Show Spoiler +
I tried 800 dpi on my 1366*768 resolution which is faster than that and it felt super slow
You changed your sensitivity to something that you're not used to and it feels wrong - that happens to everyone, especially the people who stuck to one sens for a very long time and only know how to use a mouse in a certain narrow sens range.
You have to break in a new set of muscle memory - or if you've never used similar before, develop it from scratch which can take a while.
I've heard this before but I don't understand it really... lower dpi means you have to movee the mouse more so how does that bring you less fatigue?
When you're playing at a high sensitivity, you have to squeeze your wrist+fingers a lot more to get a similar level of accuracy because a minor error will make you miss your target by a larger distance; you also tend to use smaller/less parts of your fingers/hand/wrist etc the higher sens you go.
It's usually tension that causes fatigue - or even injury in more extreme cases. I've had my share of minor wrist and hand injuries from using a mouse and a graphics tablet wrongly (almost all of them from regularly tensing my hand inappropriately), and take care of it (and myself) more because of that.
Playing at a medium or medium-low sensitivity lets you relax the grip more. That's not specific to a mouse. To roughly define sensitivity ranges for 2d stuff (like moving mouse on a desktop or playing starcraft/osu) i'll say:
low = 2 inches to cross vertical space of screen (540dpi on 1080p) medium = 1 inch (1080dpi on 1080p) high = 0.5 inches (2160dpi on 1080p)
those can be scaled to be independant of monitor resolution as it's used in the scale, for example on 768p you'd use 768dpi instead of 1080dpi for the same feeling and hand movement. That's all assuming unscaled input (no positive or negative acceleration, no other scaling) so that 1 sensor count is 1 pixel moved, as that's the best way to use a mouse.
what i ask myself is if that is necessary also in a game like starcraft. If that is true, a pro playing 8 hours at day without rest days could underperform or not get in shape quickly cause his body has no time to recover.
Rest time (solid sleep, etc) is essential for learning and a surprising amount of stuff considering all that the brain is responsible for, it's not just about repairing damage to your body in the ways that you'd cause it from physical training. I don't have any particular source there but there should be plenty of info on google
Yeah i've seen your mouse sensitivity propaganda in the tech support section for years Always thought i should tried but only started last week ^^
I was using 1600 dpi on a 1366*768 resolution. Now with 800dpi i think i use my wrist too much which strains it even more than on 1600dpi x)
800 dpi already was my default in csgo with 1.75 ingame sens, but it makes more sense as you make big arm movements and then use the low dpi to be precise when you're close to target.
On the other hand with sc2 it feels awkward because it's a middle ground between that and the wrist control. What ends up happening is me sometimes hesitating between wrist or arm movement which messes up my gameplay and tires me faster so i guess i still have to get used to it?
Yes, depends on grip and mouse weight too. Palm grip gives you a lot less leverage than fingertip and heavy mice are harder to use at anything other than high sensitivities
It doesn't really matter for CSGO, you'd measure sensitivity in cm/180 there and the difference between 800dpi multiplied by one number vs 1600dpi multiplied by another to get the same cm/180 is small
Thanks, this thread is always "up to date" for any time. And it doesn't matter if you are a new player , everyone can use this just for general education. I found the the answer, you should learn how to spend your money first, well amusing.
Im wondering about screen height. I have a laptop so my head automatically has to look "down". I think with respectable distance, it's fine. Optinally I could attack an extern keyboard and put the laptop on an anything raising its position, but that's not so easy for mobile usage. haha. Any thoughts on this?
PS: I think many people doing it wrong using their breaks for browsing forums or wathcing youtube, especially to shorten queue-times. Hm
EDIT: I think DPI is important to point out, that it will work depending on your monitor............
If you have a small monitor 600 DPI might be very good, once it gets bigger you might want to get 800 then 1000 etc Generally that's why DPI was so important (and famous) to improve for in mouse mice... (bigger modern screens). I was using 1800 dpi until now (quite big screen), and I am quite unprecise in aimbooster, but relative fine ingame... with mouse trainers. I'll try to get a middle ground solution...
I think Jakatak gave a very good summary, of BELOW 2000 dpi is a must then it depends on personality and screen size.
AND ALWAYS, when you give a recommendation, about DPI, PLEASE , post your screen resolution. 800 dpi - 1000 dpi doesn't mean anything when their screens were super small, but then again I don't know about your screen sizes (maybe they were 3200x1800? or 1024x800?) , what I know is in the list list at the top.
or YOU post your resolution into this thread please
Here is mine: #1800 dpi @1920x1080 very handy ingame also in mouse trainer maps, I feel it's precise enough ingame, and helps with APM alot (doing alot of things all over the screen, not just micromanagement in the middle of your screen), that means jumping to a unit-gropu in the top right, to jumping to a unit-group in the bottom-left, to the minimap, and last but not least edge-camera control -when you have to is very important too - goes very quick = good.
causing some fatigue in longer sessions,
slight problem is precision on the minimap... which I recently tried to involve more, and I can't just not get precise on the minimap, it's always more jumping than I want.... this DPI is very bad in the challenge of aimbooster.com, but then again, that challenge is on a very small area of 640x400... not realistic and not a good comparison to Sc2 at all, rather do a custom challenge with original resolution.
I made a custom challenge for Sc2 @1920x1080 resolution here (it has 1600x1000): http://aimbooster.com/s/2jKDcGY it has 3 lives, you can reduce or improve that if you want/need to
#800 dpi @1920x1080 no fatigue, very good in aimbooster 's normal challenge, sc2 in testing...
Do I have to watch a couple videos to discover if it’s fair to call him an expert, or informed enough to offer “ general guideline or advice based on experience.”
I could call myself an investment expert at Danglars dot com with similar disclaimer and just offer common platitudes that may or may not be backed up by anything other than stuff I’ve heard and has worked for <5 years.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iNJWuhR.jpg)
Isn't it bette rto turn the ingame sensitivity off completly? Does it not manipulate your mouse sens? Sorry for the bit of topic.
