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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On April 05 2019 08:19 Velr wrote:
Question from an outsider:
Judging from TL, JT is kinda hated or at least no one is happy with him. In international news i get like 0 vibes in that direction, is his reelection in any kind of real danger?
I don't even have an opinion on him, he seems to be a bit too soft when challenged but on the policiy side, did he have any BIG blunders. With big blunders i don't mean stuff that outrages anti-sjw's or a similar crowd; i got that from youtube...
He was elected because he was charismatic, and his party had more progressive values.
In media I think people like him, because he's always smiling, embraces cultural stuff, and he never says anything negative, just brushes it to the side. He also takes a weak stance on anything, unlike say Trump. So we get pushed around a lot internationally, specifically the US) and nothing gets done.
I can only talk about him from the opinion of prairie provinces, he didn't win with our help, he catered all his platforming to Ontario and eastward. Actually I don't really know a single thing he's done for Alberta, especially through our relatively speaking rougher times than Canada. Most of the people I see him just think of him as some leader in faraway land that has nothing to do with us.
Maybe someone can explain what policy he passed or helped pass. Now I'm searching, and seems the big points come up as gender balanced cabinet, Syrian refugee crisis, marijuana legalization (good), one tax bracket (1.5% lower for middle class, and 4% higher new tax bracket for wealthier). Someone help me out here, 95% of what I can find is social rights, and nothing on the economy.
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On April 05 2019 09:03 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2019 06:21 FiWiFaKi wrote:
So Alberta elections are coming up, thoughts fellow Albertans?
Unsurprisingly, here in Alberta we're super Trudeau, probably worst prime minister since his father.
The race is between NDP and UCP, and all in all, I've been conservative forever, and I thought Notley did a decent job with what she had. However, her campaign has been promising too many things that cost too much money, as well as trying to remove revenue streams like speeding cameras (which I'm actually for). Either way, it doesn't seem sustainable with reducing tax revenue. I think she's done a good job with slowly diversifying the economy... Though she failed to get any pipelines built, but hard to say how much of that is her unable to negotiate well, and how much of that is BC and the federal government being dumb. Train cars to transport oil, like fml.
Jason Kenney on the other hand seems like a snake, Notley is definitely more sympathetic. The only thing he really gets attacked for is his Anti-LGBT stance in the past, but I'm not too fond of the excess attention on it, it's not like he's going to repeal gay marriage and stuff like that, so I'm not worried. He definitely wouldn't support absurd stuff like 3 bathrooms, having one for the confused people, which is too large of a cost. I think focus on things like accessibility is also a poor decision, drives up costs too much for a very low single percent of the population. I mean, it's shitty, but tough luck for some people. We don't need every single library to be wheelchair accessible, maybe just 20%.
The Conservatives seem a little too fixated on oil, I think they key is more spending and incentives on education, which Kenney discussed. Right now is a great time to bring non energy companies in, with low lease rates on office spaces, and fairly low salaries due to a very weak Canadian dollar, and high unemployment. With less focus on emissions, and a higher focus on education (our post secondary is doing alright, but more emphasis on k-12), we should be able to attract a lot of industry. I care for the environment, but I think with how large Canada is, we can afford to pollute more, to improve our economy.
So yeah, I'm leaning towards Conservatives, just wish the party had a different candidate. This is pretty much me. I dont trust Kenny at all, im worried he is both untrustworthy and more populist than traditional alberta conservative. Im also worried that either will spend too much, I am so disapointed in our politicians that we had set our selves up with 0 debt post Klien and instead of maling some awesome wealth fund we out spent our intake even during the boom. I have never not voted PC but im currently leaning toward the green party. They are an interesting mix of fiscal conservative ism while being pro environment. What gives me pause is that it is a throw away vote as they have no chance.
If you're fairly indifferent between UCP and NDP, and if the election looks fairly decided in the polls, then why not. Send your message, and show the rest that they're a serious party.
They're too liberal arts for my liking, I want someone who is more of a hard ass, a math/science background, but having experience leading a large team in a private company... But having a family and seeing the happiness that it brings for people.
Every Green Party interview I read or watch is a retired mom who lived her life the way the wind blew. Someone who made little decisions in life, worked a very structured job, but sees unfairness and cruelty in this world, and wants to make it better. My mom's a nice woman, but I wouldn't want her to run my government.
Maybe if socially and environmentally we were much worse off I'd be focused on other things, but right now it's good. When I was in school, it was swell, I saw llvery little bullying, people of differences races, sexes, sexualities, etc... Got together well, magnitudes better than people two generations older. Our focus needs to be on the economy, doing everything we can to create more from each hour or work, to improve trade relations, to improve intranational delivery networks) fml shipping is so expensive here), to make starting companies easier, putting more emphasis on the end result and not on who will get offended.
From 2010-2014, we were on par with GDP/capita with the US, from 2015 we went down, fast. Now we're at 75% the GDP/capita of the US. The world is burning around us and others just pretend it's all okay. At the current trend, it just seems like a very slow and painful road to recovery.
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On April 04 2019 09:17 Rebs wrote:
So by virtue of having done some things outrageously and having a poor relationship with the Media you are drawing an equivalency that Elder T did "wild and crazy shit" and so therefore Trumps lunacy should be unsurprising.
You trolling ?
i'd say the media attempts to portray Trump's behaviour as "lunacy". that does not mean it is lunacy.
please re-read my exact comment.
On April 03 2019 23:13 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
its funny how people talk about what a lunatic Trump is. Like its some unprecedented crazy thing. Pierre Trudeau did all kinds of wild and inflammatory stuff.
I am saying the US media likes to paint a picture of Trump like he is something never seen before in history. The media is pursuing the "Trump Bump". They maximize the "Trump Bump" by making it seem like he is a wild, crazy man of historic proportions. NBC, CBS, etc spent years claiming he was a Russian agent. I disagree with the main stream media's sensationalizing Trump's behaviours. He ain't special or historic.
regarding Trump ... what i'm saying is. ..
same shit... different decade.
I'd say enacting the war measures act when we're not at war.. is pretty "out there".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Crisis
We can go through more of Pierre Trudeau's unusual antics and unusual methods by going through a few books if you like ... this video provides a nice little intro to P.E.T.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On April 08 2019 21:20 JimmiC wrote:
People understand what you are saying they are saying that Pierre Trudeau was nothing like Trump. For example he was a politician who got policy done. Second much of what makes Trump so wild is his tweets, not only did the technology not exist but P.T. used traditional ways of communicating. And so on and so forth.
A president can only veto stuff. and negotiate around that veto.
please let other people speak for themselves how they are interpreting what i am saying.
On April 04 2019 00:16 JimmiC wrote:
^this, the biggest clearest difference is Trudeau, the elder one, did a lot of policy. Trump is not a politician.
P.E.T. was not a politician
P.E.T. had only been a politician for 2 years When he became PM in 1967. its not like he was a career politician.
Currently, we have "trump derangement syndrome". Check out Robert Wright's book, "Trudeau-Mania", where he discusses "Trudeau-Hatred Derangement Syndrome".
" Canadian left-nationalists dismiss Trudeau as a laissez-faire liberal who did nothing to counter the rapacious American takeover of Canada. Quebec nationalists hold Trudeau almost single-handedly responsible for la fin d'un reve canadien....
Trudeau felt no genuine sense of belonging to either Quebec or Canada and was thus all the more dangerous for having been a perennial `outsider`"
https://www.harpercollins.ca/9781443445009/trudeaumania/
hatred for Trudeau existed on many angles of the political spectrum.
Both P.E.T. and Trump have opponents who claim they are not only "destroying the country" but also "destroying the values for which it stands".
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We understand what you are saying. It is simpy objectively wrong.
Like him or not Trudeau was a refined gentleman who was respected around the world, accomplished great things policy wise and gave Canada a great image on the world stage. Trudeau was not a bum, he was not a crook, was not a compulsive liar, etc.
Idk about you guys but for me, canadian values pretty much align with what Trudeau stood for.
It is a really strange hill for you to die on tbh... but seeing how you drank the MAGA koolaid in the US politics thread I can see where you are coming from.
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On April 08 2019 22:28 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
We understand what you are saying. It is simpy objectively wrong.
until you go at my exact points head on you are talking-around what i am saying. "simpy objectively wrong" says nothing of any of my individual points.
On April 08 2019 22:28 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
Like him or not Trudeau was a refined gentleman who was respected around the world, accomplished great things policy wise and gave Canada a great image on the world stage. Trudeau was not a bum, he was not a crook, was not a compulsive liar, etc.
he showed up at parliament for official votes in an ascot and sandals. that's a refined gentlemen? c'mon man.
On April 08 2019 22:28 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
It is a really strange hill for you to die on tbh... but seeing how you drank the MAGA koolaid in the US politics thread I can see where you are coming from.
you are not reading my posts then.
On April 08 2019 22:28 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
Like him or not Trudeau was a refined gentleman
i will let you and JimmiC argue this point.
On April 03 2019 23:16 JimmiC wrote:Whether it was his treatment of his wife, his love of Castro,
On April 08 2019 22:28 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
Like him or not Trudeau was a refined gentleman who was respected around the world, accomplished great things policy wise and gave Canada a great image on the world stage.
Trudeau has been dead 19 years and out of power for 35... it is his vision that is still hated in some circles within Canada. Check out that Agenda episode i posted. I'd say the 2 award winning historians on that show know more than you do. I think they are right. However, you've never delved into any of the points they or I have made... so who knows... maybe you agree with them.
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On April 08 2019 23:35 JimmiC wrote:
The reason people hate Trump is his lies, behavior, criminality and so on.
my point isn't what people think or don't think. In fact, I'm saying people are over exaggerating Trump's foibles.
behaviour? criminality?
P.E.T. punched his wife in the face and gave her a black eye. is that a crime? is that poor behaviour?
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1368&dat=19790328&id=dI5QAAAAIBAJ&sjid=9BEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6689,5936489&hl=en
no one hated P.E.T. for punching his wife in the face? seems you eluded to people not liking PET's treatment of his wife in your previous post.
On April 08 2019 23:35 JimmiC wrote:
It is ironic for you to tell me to not speak for others when you are basically claiming that everyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't think your wrong but rather just does not understand you point.
still not addressing any individual points..
any how,
Trudeau-mania , Trudeau-Hatred Derangement Syndrome, Trump Derangement Syndrome.
same shit... different decade.
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On April 08 2019 23:58 JimmiC wrote:
Yes I have, not sure what part you don't understand. Trump doesn't have policies that are hated. He really hasn't done much in the way of policies. He has made claims, and talked of them but hasn't done them. P.T. did and that is what the west hated.
Again not, not understanding. Disagreeing. But please try over in US pol more people their to understand you.
the points you are trying to make are incorrect. punching your wife in the face is a crime and is bad behaviour. P.E.T. was hated for doing so. We're now down to the fact that a Prez and PM have different roles within government. That's a given before the discussion even begins.
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On April 08 2019 23:58 JimmiC wrote:
Trump doesn't have policies that are hated. He really hasn't done much in the way of policies.
The child separation policy and the attempted Muslim ban were hated quite universally among literally anyone that hadn't already drank the Trump kool-aid. Don't forget that they tried to do a lot of incredibly shitty stuff early on in the administration but the courts basically blocked huge portions of it. Those million+ people protests happened for a reason.
Tack on issues like those to the fact that he's a raging narcissist asshole that is incapable of telling the truth and believes he should be able to live by different rules than everyone else, and you have a recipe for someone who is universally hated by anyone not sucked in by his nonsense.
On the other hand, to say either of the Trudeaus are hated on a similar level to what Trump is seems pretty exaggerated. For Justin Trudeau, people dislike him out west here where I live, but it's not the same visceral hatred you hear when you listen to people talk about Trump. Most people just think he's an idiot and all talk, no action. The Conservatives are trying very hard right now to push the narrative right now that JT's as a bad and corrupt as Trump, but it just doesn't seem to be working.
Scheer's stunt yesterday of claiming he had huge SNC-related information to come out seemed to backfire when it wasn't really related to the issue itself at all.
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On April 08 2019 21:18 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2019 09:17 Rebs wrote:
So by virtue of having done some things outrageously and having a poor relationship with the Media you are drawing an equivalency that Elder T did "wild and crazy shit" and so therefore Drumpfs lunacy should be unsurprising.
You trolling ? i'd say the media attempts to portray Drumpf's behaviour as "lunacy". that does not mean it is lunacy. please re-read my exact comment. Show nested quote +On April 03 2019 23:13 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
its funny how people talk about what a lunatic Drumpf is. Like its some unprecedented crazy thing. Pierre Trudeau did all kinds of wild and inflammatory stuff. I am saying the US media likes to paint a picture of Drumpf like he is something never seen before in history. The media is pursuing the "Drumpf Bump". They maximize the "Drumpf Bump" by making it seem like he is a wild, crazy man of historic proportions. NBC, CBS, etc spent years claiming he was a Russian agent. I disagree with the main stream media's sensationalizing Drumpf's behaviours. He ain't special or historic. regarding Drumpf ... what i'm saying is. .. same shit... different decade. I'd say enacting the war measures act when we're not at war.. is pretty "out there". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_CrisisWe can go through more of Pierre Trudeau's unusual antics and unusual methods by going through a few books if you like ... this video provides a nice little intro to P.E.T. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na87I3R12CM
Ok, fine, that doesnt change the fact that the conclusion you are drawing is the same.
There is mountains of evidance of Trump, being a pathological liar, having no grasp of policy and his relationship with the media is not generally poor. It is poor with left wing media. He is a darling of right wing media and thats because it panders to his base specifically. Trudeau had a generally bad relationship period.
Trump has displayed every and all characteristics of a demagogue, praising fascists publicly, lying about policy initiatives constantly (here is just one example in the spoiler)abd the lying part should alarm you because its not half truths or clever politiking, its just flat out lying and there is so much evidence for this that its painful. Add to that the constant rallying and creating a an environment that if not encourages atleast signs of on violence. These things are not ok.
And even if Trudeau did them, its 2019 and its not ok.
+ Show Spoiler +https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=321938441938556
Trudeau may have been unconventional in some respects and a bit of hardass. I am well familiar with his history, you dont need to repeat it. But regardless of his actions there was a strong understanding that this actions were rooted in logic and thinking. Whether those actions are agreeable or not is a different matter. Thats not difficult for people to swallow because atleast you know that someone has the best interest in mind.
But the equivalancy you are drawing is still invalid regardless of whatever semantics you might want to argue. I addressed your points and you responded by pointing out an issue largely to do with semantics. Thats a bad faith argument if there ever was one. AKA trolling.
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On April 09 2019 00:35 Rebs wrote:
But the equivalancy you are drawing is still invalid regardless of whatever semantics you might want to argue. I addressed your points and you responded by pointing out an issue largely to do with semantics. Thats a bad faith argument if there ever was one. AKA trolling.
No, I've provided plenty of material to back up my original comment.
I do not know what equivalency you think i'm making. I"m not saying "Trudeau = Trump".
here is my original point.
On April 03 2019 23:13 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
its funny how people talk about what a lunatic Trump is. Like its some unprecedented crazy thing. Pierre Trudeau did all kinds of wild and inflammatory stuff.
I'm saying Trump is not some historic figure of epic proportions. The media is living off of the "trump bump" and over sensationalizing his actions in the name of ratings.
I think Robert Wright's book : Trudeaumania does a good job of covering many of the crazy stuff P.E.T. did. I've outlined a laundry list of other stuff.. And I've included Steve Paikin's "The Agenda" coverage of the book. There is plenty more.
Its interesting how we have 2 words describing how people reacted to both leaders that include being divorced from reality.
"Mania" and "Derangement".
On April 09 2019 00:35 Rebs wrote:
Trudeau may have been unconventional in some respects and a bit of hardass. I am well familiar with his history, you dont need to repeat it.
To prove my points I provide facts and documentation to back it up. Read the MOD note. It is impossible for me to ascertain what you do and do not know about canadian history. I do not think it is wise, for example, to claim PET assaulted his wife without some source.
Anyhow, I think I've provided plenty of content and facts to forward my original point.
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Well, it appears the Albertans have elected the UCP. Time for them all to discover over the next year or so that all those oil jobs they dreamed were gonna come back aren't actually coming back, and they're still probably fucked. They can ignore climate change and cut environmental regulations all they want. None of that is going to help with the price of oil being too low for their oil sector to be as successful as it was 5-10 years ago. And then once reality sets in and they realize they've elected a grifter that promised them the world while having no actual policies or loyalty to Alberta, maybe they'll come to their senses and do something about their economy.
Probably not though. Notley at least seemed like she had a plan to help Alberta diversify their economy and produce the oil in a more environmentally friendly way (something the big oil companies supported). But of course, she ended up getting all the blame for all the previous PC governments not bothering to plan ahead or save money when times were good for the province and was left to clean up the mess.
I'm curious to see what the UCP says or does about those tens of billions of dollars worth of abandoned oil wells that need cleaning up since so many of the smaller oil companies that operated weren't responsible or organized enough to have an exit plan in place. I would hope there would be some kind of regulation put forth to stop that from happening again, but it's Kenney and the UCP so probably not.
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On April 17 2019 12:06 Ben... wrote:
Well, it appears the Albertans have elected the UCP. Time for them all to discover over the next year or so that all those oil jobs they dreamed were gonna come back aren't actually coming back, and they're still probably fucked. They can ignore climate change and cut environmental regulations all they want. None of that is going to help with the price of oil being too low for their oil sector to be as successful as it was 5-10 years ago. And then once reality sets in and they realize they've elected a grifter that promised them the world while having no actual policies or loyalty to Alberta, maybe they'll come to their senses and do something about their economy.
Probably not though. Notley at least seemed like she had a plan to help Alberta diversify their economy and produce the oil in a more environmentally friendly way (something the big oil companies supported). But of course, she ended up getting all the blame for all the previous PC governments not bothering to plan ahead or save money when times were good for the province and was left to clean up the mess.
I'm curious to see what the UCP says or does about those tens of billions of dollars worth of abandoned oil wells that need cleaning up since so many of the smaller oil companies that operated weren't responsible or organized enough to have an exit plan in place. I would hope there would be some kind of regulation put forth to stop that from happening again, but it's Kenney and the UCP so probably not.
When WTI is over $60/bbl, we will do well.
I was slightly leaning towards NDP until Notley said she wanted to build another road to Fort Mac, that was the last straw for me.
$25/day daycare is good, I hope that we can somehow make that happen in time. All in all though, NDP and Conservatives are very similar in Alberta, there's no way a BC type NDP would have any chance in Alberta, so they changed a bit to fit the demographic here.
The federal election is going to be the significant one, not being able to bring our oil to market is the real issue.
When oil is $100/bbl there was so much waste everywhere, $60 is sustainable, the companies will lean down a bit (actually they did already), it's much easier to do now that we've had a chance to grow and develop systems for operations. At first it was more expensive because of new technologies. Like SAGD was hella expensive back in the day because it was new, but now all the capital and machines for it are here, we know what works and what doesn't. We will have people making $90k/year for these jobs, not $150k, we will be fine.
I agree with you that NDP received a lot of unwarranted hate for their job, a big part of it was the Conservative government not planning for the future, but on the economy they are very similar, so little will change for us. They just have slight differences in social policy, stuff like schools reporting GSA stuff to parents, but this stuff is so insignificant to me.
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EPT
