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Shots fired at Charlie Hebdo offices - France - Page 93

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
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Read this before posting. Stay civil.

As the news continues to develop, please remember no NSFW images or video. Thank you.
BeMannerDuPenner
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Germany5638 Posts
January 09 2015 19:00 GMT
#1841
On January 10 2015 03:54 SiroKO wrote:
The most revulsing thing to me is the hypocrisy of the French politicians and PC media.
Everytime there's an Islamic terrorist attack, they refer to the perpetrators as "monsters" or "terrorists" to deprive them from their ISLAMIC ideology.
The truth is, these people motivations are based on a particular, but extremly well-spread and well-documented, understanding of Islam.

So absolute respect for the FN (nationalist, economically at the left, societally at the right) politicians who dare to call these bastards by their names : Islamic terrorists.
Not giving a fuck about being boycotted by the PC media, or losing the muslim votes.

Truth against professional political liers.



they are based on extreme views of some parts.
also politicians that arent stupid are focusing on seperating terrorists from islam cause people are fucking idiot sheep and else will start lynching innocent people and destroying mosques etc (which already started from what ive heared)
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
Tien
Profile Joined January 2003
Russian Federation4447 Posts
January 09 2015 19:00 GMT
#1842
On January 10 2015 03:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2015 03:55 Tien wrote:
On January 10 2015 03:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 10 2015 03:49 Warlock40 wrote:
You have a point - perhaps, if Charlie Hebdo had not offended the religion of the suspects, then they would not have been a target for violence.

But here's the thing - if this cartoon provoked the suspects, it is entirely the fault of the suspects for allowing an expression of free speech to cause them to commit crimes. If you are saying that it's the fault of Charlie Hebdo for provoking them, you are essentially blaming the victim. Because the bottom line is that no one in their right mind should let an expression of free speech motivate them to commit murder.

I am not saying it's Charlie Hebdo's fault -- obviously.
I am saying i don't understand why do people have to provoke people who think differently about things. Is it "just because you can"? It is a different thing to respond to something than it is to obviously provoke someone -- which this falls into imo.


Just research the history of satire and all of its forms. Are you against satire?

I know very well what satire is. I am not against it.
Sad thing here is not all the people know what satire is and some people ARE against it.


SNL is satire based on offending people. The Simpsons is satire. Drawings cartoons is satire.

Satire is an expression of free speech. Drawing Muhammad is a right we ought to protect. Just because a book 1500 years ago said you are not allowed to draw doesn't mean we have to surrender our right to draw Muhammad so extremists aren't offended.
We decide our own destiny
1oo
Profile Joined April 2011
Portugal876 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-09 19:02:33
January 09 2015 19:01 GMT
#1843
On January 10 2015 03:55 OtherWorld wrote:
François Hollande talking. He confirms 4 dead hostages during the Vincennes operation.


Still a successful operation?
I get it how hard it is, but saying it was all perfect is just wrong.
At the top of the game, we play by diferent rules.
Mikau
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Netherlands1446 Posts
January 09 2015 19:03 GMT
#1844
On January 10 2015 03:54 SiroKO wrote:
The most revulsing thing to me is the hypocrisy of the French politicians and PC media.
Everytime there's an Islamic terrorist attack, they refer to the perpetrators as "monsters" or "terrorists" to deprive them from their ISLAMIC ideology.
The truth is, these people motivations are based on a particular, but extremly well-spread and well-documented, understanding of Islam.

So absolute respect for the FN (nationalist, economically at the left, societally at the right) politicians who dare to call these bastards by their names : Islamic terrorists.
Not giving a fuck about being boycotted by the PC media, or losing the muslim votes.

Truth against professional political liers.


That's the most revolting thing? Not the, I don't know, 12 people that were murdered in cold blood? You have weird priorities here.

While it is important to realise what motivated these monsters, the last thing we need is to alienate the (European) Muslim community as a whole. Not because of fear of reprecussion or some misguided sense of political correctness, but because at the end of the day the only way to get through this current wave of terrorism is us working together. We need to realise that over 99% of Muslims are not the enemy and that they hate what happened as much, and probably more so (because it makes them have to defend themselves) than we do.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
January 09 2015 19:03 GMT
#1845
Why do the terrorists have to be referred as "islamic terrorists"?
Why not "[insert their home country here] terrorists"?

They are terrorists, nothing else really matters, if anything it can only make things worse.
table for two on a tv tray
Boucot
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
France15997 Posts
January 09 2015 19:03 GMT
#1846
On January 10 2015 04:01 1oo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2015 03:55 OtherWorld wrote:
François Hollande talking. He confirms 4 dead hostages during the Vincennes operation.


Still a successful operation?
I get it how hard it is, but saying it was all perfect is just wrong.

They were killed when the guy entered the shop.
Former SC2 writer for Millenium - twitter.com/Boucot
Yhamm
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
France7248 Posts
January 09 2015 19:03 GMT
#1847
On January 10 2015 04:01 1oo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2015 03:55 OtherWorld wrote:
François Hollande talking. He confirms 4 dead hostages during the Vincennes operation.


Still a successful operation?
I get it how hard it is, but saying it was all perfect is just wrong.

said many times before, they were dead BEFORE the assault.
LiquipediaWe will have only each other at the last
johnbongham
Profile Joined April 2014
451 Posts
January 09 2015 19:04 GMT
#1848
Anybody attempting to argue that these attacks were provoked in any way at all isn't worth engaging at any level.
1oo
Profile Joined April 2011
Portugal876 Posts
January 09 2015 19:04 GMT
#1849
It says "during", either he word it wrong or you guys cant read.
At the top of the game, we play by diferent rules.
Faefae
Profile Joined June 2014
2203 Posts
January 09 2015 19:04 GMT
#1850
On January 10 2015 04:01 1oo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2015 03:55 OtherWorld wrote:
François Hollande talking. He confirms 4 dead hostages during the Vincennes operation.


Still a successful operation?
I get it how hard it is, but saying it was all perfect is just wrong.

From what i read there were no kill during the operation, those poor guys were killed when the terrorist entered the store
ForGG. 29/11/2014
Mutineer
Profile Joined March 2013
New Zealand179 Posts
January 09 2015 19:04 GMT
#1851
I am very dissapointed that mainstream media did not reprint offending cartoons. The only way to stop selective attack is to publish it by every one. Media suck.
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-09 19:08:09
January 09 2015 19:04 GMT
#1852
On January 10 2015 04:01 1oo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2015 03:55 OtherWorld wrote:
François Hollande talking. He confirms 4 dead hostages during the Vincennes operation.


Still a successful operation?

yes it is, a numerous hostage were still saved and the terrorist was shot down

what's your point about discredited it ?

edit : a perfect would have been the terrorist alive, no one used this word
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
ZeaL.
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5955 Posts
January 09 2015 19:05 GMT
#1853
Here's my question to you raynpelikoneet , there are some muslim extremists out there who are offended by women wearing bikinis. Should all women acquiesce to their demands simply because it may incite them to kill?
Tien
Profile Joined January 2003
Russian Federation4447 Posts
January 09 2015 19:05 GMT
#1854
On January 10 2015 04:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why do the terrorists have to be referred as "islamic terrorists"?
Why not "[insert their home country here] terrorists"?

They are terrorists, nothing else really matters, if anything it can only make things worse.


Because they shot up Charlie Hebdo over drawings of Muhammad.
We decide our own destiny
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
January 09 2015 19:06 GMT
#1855
On January 10 2015 04:00 Tien wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2015 03:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 10 2015 03:55 Tien wrote:
On January 10 2015 03:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 10 2015 03:49 Warlock40 wrote:
You have a point - perhaps, if Charlie Hebdo had not offended the religion of the suspects, then they would not have been a target for violence.

But here's the thing - if this cartoon provoked the suspects, it is entirely the fault of the suspects for allowing an expression of free speech to cause them to commit crimes. If you are saying that it's the fault of Charlie Hebdo for provoking them, you are essentially blaming the victim. Because the bottom line is that no one in their right mind should let an expression of free speech motivate them to commit murder.

I am not saying it's Charlie Hebdo's fault -- obviously.
I am saying i don't understand why do people have to provoke people who think differently about things. Is it "just because you can"? It is a different thing to respond to something than it is to obviously provoke someone -- which this falls into imo.


Just research the history of satire and all of its forms. Are you against satire?

I know very well what satire is. I am not against it.
Sad thing here is not all the people know what satire is and some people ARE against it.


SNL is satire based on offending people. The Simpsons is satire. Drawings cartoons is satire.

Satire is an expression of free speech. Drawing Muhammad is a right we ought to protect. Just because a book 1500 years ago said you are not allowed to draw doesn't mean we have to surrender our right to draw Muhammad so extremists aren't offended.

My entire point is you don't need to protect the right to drawing Muhammad by drawing Muhammad if you know it's gonna sooner or later result in numerous people dying because of it. There are other ways to express freedom of speech.
table for two on a tv tray
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
January 09 2015 19:06 GMT
#1856
On January 10 2015 04:01 1oo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2015 03:55 OtherWorld wrote:
François Hollande talking. He confirms 4 dead hostages during the Vincennes operation.


Still a successful operation?
I get it how hard it is, but saying it was all perfect is just wrong.


Yes considering they died before the police was even there.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
PlaGuE_R
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
France1151 Posts
January 09 2015 19:08 GMT
#1857
On January 10 2015 04:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2015 04:00 Tien wrote:
On January 10 2015 03:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 10 2015 03:55 Tien wrote:
On January 10 2015 03:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 10 2015 03:49 Warlock40 wrote:
You have a point - perhaps, if Charlie Hebdo had not offended the religion of the suspects, then they would not have been a target for violence.

But here's the thing - if this cartoon provoked the suspects, it is entirely the fault of the suspects for allowing an expression of free speech to cause them to commit crimes. If you are saying that it's the fault of Charlie Hebdo for provoking them, you are essentially blaming the victim. Because the bottom line is that no one in their right mind should let an expression of free speech motivate them to commit murder.

I am not saying it's Charlie Hebdo's fault -- obviously.
I am saying i don't understand why do people have to provoke people who think differently about things. Is it "just because you can"? It is a different thing to respond to something than it is to obviously provoke someone -- which this falls into imo.


Just research the history of satire and all of its forms. Are you against satire?

I know very well what satire is. I am not against it.
Sad thing here is not all the people know what satire is and some people ARE against it.


SNL is satire based on offending people. The Simpsons is satire. Drawings cartoons is satire.

Satire is an expression of free speech. Drawing Muhammad is a right we ought to protect. Just because a book 1500 years ago said you are not allowed to draw doesn't mean we have to surrender our right to draw Muhammad so extremists aren't offended.

My entire point is you don't need to protect the right to drawing Muhammad by drawing Muhammad if you know it's gonna sooner or later result in numerous people dying because of it. There are other ways to express freedom of speech.


Except at that point they have won.
TLO FIGHTING | me all in, he drone drone drone, me win - SK.MC | JINROLLED! | KraToss for the win
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
January 09 2015 19:09 GMT
#1858
yahoo is reporting the terrorists are dead? is that all of the involved terrorists or are there ongoing operations?
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
January 09 2015 19:09 GMT
#1859
On January 10 2015 04:05 ZeaL. wrote:
Here's my question to you raynpelikoneet , there are some muslim extremists out there who are offended by women wearing bikinis. Should all women acquiesce to their demands simply because it may incite them to kill?

Obviously not.
Maybe i am bad at expressing myself or a lot of people here have a way different view of what's rational in certain situations and what's not. So let's just drop this.
table for two on a tv tray
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
January 09 2015 19:10 GMT
#1860
On January 10 2015 04:09 dAPhREAk wrote:
yahoo is reporting the terrorists are dead? is that all of the involved terrorists or are there ongoing operations?


It's over.

There's an hostage situation in a jewelry in Montpellier but it is not related and is afaik a robbery gone wrong.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
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