EPTShots fired at Charlie Hebdo offices - France - Page 15
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Read this before posting. Stay civil. As the news continues to develop, please remember no NSFW images or video. Thank you. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On January 08 2015 00:20 dmnum wrote: Because in most of the middle-east the bullies are running the class, and peaceful protest is met with violent repression. Has violent repression not always been the way any kind of dictatorial, totalitarian or otherwise radical regime has dealt with dissidents? And yet so many revolutions have succeeded. What I'm getting at is that I don't even see so much as the intention for things to change, and then you have people like the aforementioned who despite claiming to be "moderate" think these things are justified... | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37063 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On January 08 2015 00:21 ahswtini wrote: There were reports that the gunmen burst into another office and asked where the Charlie Hebdo offices were This look so random... Like they posted a tweet with a mohamet drawing 2minutes before the attack started. And in the other hand it looks fiercly planned. | ||
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Faggatron
United Kingdom65 Posts
On January 08 2015 00:14 Nebuchad wrote: I would rather you shit on the people shooting. Actually if the people shooting really believe what they claim to believe then they could in fact be good people. Their morals are just too warped by indoctrination and lack of rationality (and yes religion) that they do fucked up things. If they think drawing Mohammed is as bad as murder, and these guys are going to keep on doing it, then they see it as their duty to kill them for the greater good. So argue against their bullshit assumptions that inform their terrible and fucked up actions. | ||
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Tesarul
Belgium79 Posts
On January 08 2015 00:17 207aicila wrote: Why are there no "moderate islamists" protesting AGAINST the people who commit these acts? Why are they not publicly denouncing and shaming them? They are: http://www.lecfcm.fr/?p=3908 (French Council of the Muslim Faith) Also for instance: http://rt.com/news/189168-german-muslims-protest-isis/ | ||
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
On January 07 2015 23:43 heliusx wrote: They killed these people because they do cartoons of the muslim religion. How blind are you willing to be in the name of political correctness? This is not political correctness. This is truth. Religion is a pretext here, as it's always have been all along history. Most religious people aren't extremists, we'd have a serious problem otherwise... | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12407 Posts
On January 08 2015 00:17 207aicila wrote: Why are there no "moderate islamists" protesting AGAINST the people who commit these acts? Why are they not publicly denouncing and shaming them? Why are they not making a clear statement through ACTIONS, not words, that they do not support such things and wish to distance themselves? "Moderate islamists" makes no sense. As for denouncing and shaming, a ton of muslim authorities do that every single time there's a bombing. For some reason people keep asking that question, when it's just not a real point. | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
On January 08 2015 00:17 207aicila wrote: I see some level-headed and intelligent individuals in this thread (not to say that everyone else isn't, simply basing that on how people react to an event like this) so I would like to ask everyone a question that has perplexed me for some time and hope that someone more educated on these sorts of issues could help me understand. Every time something like this happens, there are netizens that go full-on xenophobic nationalist (and to some degree it's understandable, if predictable) and netizens that will say something along the lines of "this is just the doing of extremist fundamentalist nutjobs, you can't blame 1+ billion people for this, I am/know plenty of moderate adepts of islam that don't condone such a thing etc etc". And that seems like a reasonable reply at first. The fact that you shouldn't make such huge generalizations should be pretty obvious. But here is my question: why do people only say this as if they're trying to save face? Why do they only try to shift the blame away? Why are there no "moderate islamists" protesting AGAINST the people who commit these acts? Why are they not publicly denouncing and shaming them? Why are they not making a clear statement through ACTIONS, not words, that they do not support such things and wish to distance themselves? . Because the moderates probably have nothing to do with the fanatic crazies in their daily lives? 'The west' tortures people in abu graib, drone bombs civilians. I hate that it happens but I'm not going protesting on the streets for it because I had 0 influence on that whatsoever even though I'm a white male just like them. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On January 08 2015 00:27 Ragnarork wrote: This is not political correctness. This is truth. Religion is a pretext here, as it's always have been all along history. Most religious people aren't extremists, we'd have a serious problem otherwise... Yeah but he's not saying that. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7992 Posts
On January 08 2015 00:25 Tesarul wrote: They are : http://www.lecfcm.fr/?p=3908 (French Council of the Muslim Faith) That being said the CFCM is absolutely shit. It would be their number one interest to organize a march against violence comited in the name of Islam and they don't. We all remember that they sued Charlie Hebdo when they published caricatures of Mahomet. Maybe they can do better than five lines on their website. But they have always been absolutely lame. That's a pity, they could be useful for once. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On January 08 2015 00:24 FFW_Rude wrote: This look so random... Like they posted a tweet with a mohamet drawing 2minutes before the attack started. And in the other hand it looks fiercly planned. Jürgen Ritter, Literaturprofessor an der Sorbonne, sagte im Gespräch mit Deutschlandradio Kultur, zuletzt sei es eher ruhig um "Charlie Hebdo" geworden. Der Überfall sei offenbar genau geplant gewesen, da die Täter während der Redaktionskonferenz zuschlugen. Jürgen Ritter, literature professor at the Sorbonne, said in a conversation mit Deutschlandradio Kultur, lately it has been quiet arund "Charlie Hebdo". The attack was apparently accurately planned, because the perpetrators attacked during the editorial meeting. (I hope that is the right word) http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/charliehebdo-101.html 07.01.2015 16:15 Hard to say whether this was planned or not. Maybe they just knew about the time and general building but nothing more. | ||
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
On January 08 2015 00:27 Ragnarork wrote: This is not political correctness. This is truth. Religion is a pretext here, as it's always have been all along history. Most religious people aren't extremists, we'd have a serious problem otherwise... Ok? | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/en-direct-paris-fusillade-au-siege-de-charlie-hebdo-07-01-2015-4425881.php Claimed from a guy who was their when the DS3 crashed | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23687 Posts
On January 08 2015 00:18 ahswtini wrote: I don't recall hearing any automatic gunfire, it's possible those kalashes were semi-auto for the civilian market (not sure what French firearms laws are like). I agree their movement didn't look amateurish, still I think "highly trained" seems an exaggeration Yeah "highly trained" seems like a stretch but they were far from amateurs. One gunmen had the awareness and sense of calm to pick up what looked like a shoe and put on his seat-belt after executing people while fleeing from the police. That's basically not something someone can do unless they have killed people before and/or been well rehearsed. I started at 99% this was what many people seem to assume but the more I hear the more it sounds like this was something else. I am going to do what everyone should do and wait till I know more before I decide that I know what happened. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On January 08 2015 00:30 KeksX wrote: Jürgen Ritter, literature professor at the Sorbonne, said in a conversation mit Deutschlandradio Kultur, lately it has been quiet arund "Charlie Hebdo". The attack was apparently accurately planned, because the perpetrators attacked during the editorial meeting. (I hope that is the right word) http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/charliehebdo-101.html 07.01.2015 16:15 Yes the meeting was every wednsday i think. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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AXygnus
Portugal1008 Posts
On January 08 2015 00:17 207aicila wrote: + Show Spoiler + I see some level-headed and intelligent individuals in this thread (not to say that everyone else isn't, simply basing that on how people react to an event like this) so I would like to ask everyone a question that has perplexed me for some time and hope that someone more educated on these sorts of issues could help me understand. Every time something like this happens, there are netizens that go full-on xenophobic nationalist (and to some degree it's understandable, if predictable) and netizens that will say something along the lines of "this is just the doing of extremist fundamentalist nutjobs, you can't blame 1+ billion people for this, I am/know plenty of moderate adepts of islam that don't condone such a thing etc etc". And that seems like a reasonable reply at first. The fact that you shouldn't make such huge generalizations should be pretty obvious. But here is my question: why do people only say this as if they're trying to save face? Why do they only try to shift the blame away? Why are there no "moderate islamists" protesting AGAINST the people who commit these acts? Why are they not publicly denouncing and shaming them? Why are they not making a clear statement through ACTIONS, not words, that they do not support such things and wish to distance themselves? Someone on r/news made a very interesting analogy, although sadly that post was not that close to the top of the thread. For many of us, while in school, when two or three kids did stupid shit in class, the teacher might punish the whole class, and the students would straighten those fellows out. Why is this not the case here? Why are the "moderate islamists" enabling this attitude and behaviour, especially when it reflects poorly upon them as a whole? Not to mention what a Dutch fellow pointed out a few pages back, how there are people on Facebook, residents and citizens of a developed European country, saying these attacks are justified. If someone could explain to me, why these apologists come out of the woodwork and try to shift the blame away, but then continue to enable these actions by not distancing themselves from the extremists, I would be extremely grateful. I think insight into this would benefit us all. ... That's a very good point. | ||
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