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On January 08 2015 00:07 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 00:04 Boonbag wrote:On January 08 2015 00:02 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 07 2015 23:58 heliusx wrote:On January 07 2015 23:54 Verrou wrote:On January 07 2015 23:43 heliusx wrote:On January 07 2015 23:35 Ragnarork wrote:On January 07 2015 23:17 SatedSC2 wrote:
I bloody hate religion.
I truly do. You have your right to do so, but this is not religion. Do not make the terrible mistake of putting everyone in the same basket. This is the first step towards even more violence and hatred. They killed these people because they do cartoons of the muslim religion. How blind are you willing to be in the name of political correctness? And how blind are you not to see that two armed men do not represent the other millions of people who live normal lives? Are you saying that since some american shootings happened to have christian perpetrators christianity is bad as a whole? Or atheism, for what I care? These people are murderers and their religion doesn't matter. I'm really beginning to be confused how you guys don't get what I'm saying. If some american kids went to school and murdered some other kids because they drew pictures of jesus, then yeah I would also consider that a religiously motivated attack because, well, they killed in the name of religion. Of course it's a religiously motivated attack. They killed in name of a religion. Does it make that religion evil? No. If I am a sectarian monster and go make a carnage in the name of vegetarianism, it won't make vegetarianism evil or vegetarians evil. It will make my personal take on vegetarianism evil. Thing with religions is that you can make them say whatever you want. In the Quran, it is written that killing another human being is an unforgivable crime and a hundred pages later that you should kill non muslim people. You take from it whatever the fuck you want. you just showed how much of a non sense the three books are and reading non sense usually leads to stupid stuff You would have to be quite stupid to do so, because it is obvious that most of the damn book is parables, and that it is contradictory. Less obvious than necessary. Christianity lives and dies by figurativeness because of the discrepancies between the Old(which is in fact the "book" for a different religion) and the New testaments. This isn't the thread for it, though. If you want to send me a pm and I'll explain it better.
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On January 08 2015 00:13 Aeromi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 00:11 ahswtini wrote:On January 08 2015 00:10 FFW_Rude wrote:On January 08 2015 00:06 heliusx wrote:On January 08 2015 00:05 FFW_Rude wrote:
Thing i don't get is i read everywhere that it was a really planned action but i see a lot too of the guys asking where the fuck was the redaction. What is a redaction? Oh sorry i thought that word worked in english. It's where the newspapaper is written. It's basicly an other word to say : "the holding of the magazine" I also don't understand why many of the experts on the news are saying these attackers were highly trained Well, you don't buy wars weapons easily, you don't kill with cold blood people, on some videos you can see that they aren't afraid/shaking.
War weapons easily... you'd be surprised... But yes for the other. No amount of drugs could inhibitate people to commit such acts in cold blood.
I see that a dutch magasine have reinforced security because they made drawings too.... that's stupid damnit
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tragic. i hope french find a way to remain calm and collected, i take it media will have a field day igniting strong emotions in general public, hope it does not escalate into something ugly...
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EDIT: Nevermind, misread the post.
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I see some level-headed and intelligent individuals in this thread (not to say that everyone else isn't, simply basing that on how people react to an event like this) so I would like to ask everyone a question that has perplexed me for some time and hope that someone more educated on these sorts of issues could help me understand.
Every time something like this happens, there are netizens that go full-on xenophobic nationalist (and to some degree it's understandable, if predictable) and netizens that will say something along the lines of "this is just the doing of extremist fundamentalist nutjobs, you can't blame 1+ billion people for this, I am/know plenty of moderate adepts of islam that don't condone such a thing etc etc".
And that seems like a reasonable reply at first. The fact that you shouldn't make such huge generalizations should be pretty obvious. But here is my question: why do people only say this as if they're trying to save face? Why do they only try to shift the blame away? Why are there no "moderate islamists" protesting AGAINST the people who commit these acts? Why are they not publicly denouncing and shaming them? Why are they not making a clear statement through ACTIONS, not words, that they do not support such things and wish to distance themselves?
Someone on r/news made a very interesting analogy, although sadly that post was not that close to the top of the thread. For many of us, while in school, when two or three kids did stupid shit in class, the teacher might punish the whole class, and the students would straighten those fellows out. Why is this not the case here? Why are the "moderate islamists" enabling this attitude and behaviour, especially when it reflects poorly upon them as a whole?
Not to mention what a Dutch fellow pointed out a few pages back, how there are people on Facebook, residents and citizens of a developed European country, saying these attacks are justified.
If someone could explain to me, why these apologists come out of the woodwork and try to shift the blame away, but then continue to enable these actions by not distancing themselves from the extremists, I would be extremely grateful. I think insight into this would benefit us all.
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This topic is getting down terribly
please don't forget the subject, 12 people DIES, 10 are in trouble, don't make this topic a place where pro and anti religion are fighting.
Show some respect, Use PM's or create another topic.
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Are these assholes going to get away? Hide in their communities which usually are very supportive of infidel slayings behind closed doors.
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On January 08 2015 00:05 FFW_Rude wrote:
Thing i don't get is i read everywhere that it was a really planned action but i see a lot too of the guys asking where the fuck was the redaction. They planned something but didn't know where to go ? It doesn't make sense.
What do you mean you are seeing the guys asking where the office was? Like reports of people saying the gunmen were asking where it was?
As for all the Anti-Muslim bigotry, what would you do if this did turn out to be a right wing group looking to incite more violence?
Would you all just sub in the religion of the group that did it with all the hateful rhetoric?
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On January 08 2015 00:14 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 00:13 Boonbag wrote:On January 08 2015 00:10 Verrou wrote:On January 07 2015 23:55 Boonbag wrote:On January 07 2015 23:54 Verrou wrote:On January 07 2015 23:43 heliusx wrote:On January 07 2015 23:35 Ragnarork wrote:On January 07 2015 23:17 SatedSC2 wrote:
I bloody hate religion.
I truly do. You have your right to do so, but this is not religion. Do not make the terrible mistake of putting everyone in the same basket. This is the first step towards even more violence and hatred. They killed these people because they do cartoons of the muslim religion. How blind are you willing to be in the name of political correctness? And how blind are you not to see that two armed men do not represent the other millions of people who live normal lives? Are you saying that since some american shootings happened to have christian perpetrators christianity is bad as a whole? Or atheism, for what I care? These people are murderers and their religion doesn't matter. im sorry the cause always matters wtf r u on Water and bread. What are you taking when you think that religion is the cause of the attack and not fanaticism or hatred or lack of education or any of the other actual causes that led these men to kill those who ironically enough will become the "martyrs of free speech" from now on. This is a tragedy in more than one sense and if you think that islam is to blame and not the killers then I'm afraid to share a country with you ofc im blaming religion why wouldn't you blame it ? they shot gay right activits with a fucken bazooka yelling god is above all and you dont want me to shit on religion ? I would rather you shit on the people shooting.
religion is :
mysoginy
torture
brainwashing
superstition
fear
xenophobia
depravity
please show me one single instance in history where religion was any benefical or did something remotely good for human kind
User was temp banned for this post.
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
On January 08 2015 00:15 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 00:13 Aeromi wrote:On January 08 2015 00:11 ahswtini wrote:On January 08 2015 00:10 FFW_Rude wrote:On January 08 2015 00:06 heliusx wrote:On January 08 2015 00:05 FFW_Rude wrote:
Thing i don't get is i read everywhere that it was a really planned action but i see a lot too of the guys asking where the fuck was the redaction. What is a redaction? Oh sorry i thought that word worked in english. It's where the newspapaper is written. It's basicly an other word to say : "the holding of the magazine" I also don't understand why many of the experts on the news are saying these attackers were highly trained Well, you don't buy wars weapons easily, you don't kill with cold blood people, on some videos you can see that they aren't afraid/shaking. War weapons easily... you'd be surprised... But yes for the other. No amount of drugs could inhibitate people to commit such acts in cold blood. I see that a dutch magasine have reinforced security because they made drawings too.... that's stupid damnit
I don't recall hearing any automatic gunfire, it's possible those kalashes were semi-auto for the civilian market (not sure what French firearms laws are like).
I agree their movement didn't look amateurish, still I think "highly trained" seems an exaggeration
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On January 08 2015 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 00:05 FFW_Rude wrote:
Thing i don't get is i read everywhere that it was a really planned action but i see a lot too of the guys asking where the fuck was the redaction. They planned something but didn't know where to go ? It doesn't make sense. What do you mean you are seeing the guys asking where the office was? Like reports of people saying the gunmen were asking where it was?
yes sorry my english is terrible right now. Apparently they were report of them asking where was the journal...
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I dont get it. When SS, FARC, or IRA killed people nobody disputed their (misguided) motivation. Nobody doubted why they are killing. Why are You disputing religious motivation of those people? I am pretty sure they know why they did this better than we do.
Discriminating between radical and moderate muslims is one thing. Disputing religious motivation of this act is something completly different and wrong.
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On January 08 2015 00:17 VelJa wrote:
This topic is getting down terribly
please don't forget the subject, 12 people DIES, 10 are in trouble, don't make this topic a place where pro and anti religion are fighting.
Show some respect, Use PM's or create another topic.
Then stop shit posting and let people who are not acting emotionally discuss.
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On January 08 2015 00:16 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 00:12 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 08 2015 00:09 AXygnus wrote:On January 08 2015 00:05 mdb wrote:On January 08 2015 00:04 AXygnus wrote:On January 08 2015 00:03 hfglgg wrote:On January 07 2015 23:55 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 07 2015 23:51 sAsImre wrote:On January 07 2015 23:41 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 07 2015 23:35 Ragnarork wrote:
[quote]
You have your right to do so, but this is not religion. Do not make the terrible mistake of putting everyone in the same basket.
This is the first step towards even more violence and hatred.
It wasnt a mistake, those bloody action forced by a specific religion. Breivik. Once a decade? Century? It was an exception. And how many things we had due to religion terrorists in last 10 years? And do u remember, who was attacked by him? Don't u see the real reason was mainly cultural differences, which mainly comes from RELIGION. the death tolls of unreligious regimes like china, soviet russia, nazi germany or north korea are by far much much higher than anything religion has done. Ever heard of anything called the Cruzades? Who the fuck cares for something happened 500 years ago? What matters is what happens now in this moment. Oh, then let's ignore something relevant to the discussion because it doesn't help you. Shall we ignore Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany as well? Who cares about something that happened over 20 years ago? What happened today caused by ussr or nazi germany? I'm not good at history The past has EVERYTHING to do with the present. It's the sole reason the present exists in the way it exists. So even if you don't know what happened exactly, you can still be sure that the past has something to do with it. Just take the Ukraine situation with Russia, it's VERY influenced by the whole breakdown of the ussr.
U cant be serious. Ussr had nothing common with religion, communists stated that religion is a drug for human brain. And now tell me, what happened today was in the name of Stalin/Hitler or any other REAL person?
History, the real history helps us not to make a CRITICAL mistakes that was in past.
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On January 08 2015 00:04 AXygnus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 00:03 hfglgg wrote:On January 07 2015 23:55 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 07 2015 23:51 sAsImre wrote:On January 07 2015 23:41 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 07 2015 23:35 Ragnarork wrote:On January 07 2015 23:17 SatedSC2 wrote:
I bloody hate religion.
I truly do. You have your right to do so, but this is not religion. Do not make the terrible mistake of putting everyone in the same basket. This is the first step towards even more violence and hatred. It wasnt a mistake, those bloody action forced by a specific religion. Breivik. Once a decade? Century? It was an exception. And how many things we had due to religion terrorists in last 10 years? And do u remember, who was attacked by him? Don't u see the real reason was mainly cultural differences, which mainly comes from RELIGION. the death tolls of unreligious regimes like china, soviet russia, nazi germany or north korea are by far much much higher than anything religion has done. Ever heard of anything called the Cruzades?
I find it interesting how every time this topic comes up people bring up the Crusades, an incident wherein religion was more of a pretext and wealth/treasure was the primary goal, which is not to say that it wasn't a terrible war. Yet people always forget things like the moorish invasion of the Iberian peninsula. Especially ironic, coming from a Portuguese poster, but I digress.
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On January 08 2015 00:17 207aicila wrote:
I see some level-headed and intelligent individuals in this thread (not to say that everyone else isn't, simply basing that on how people react to an event like this) so I would like to ask everyone a question that has perplexed me for some time and hope that someone more educated on these sorts of issues could help me understand.
Every time something like this happens, there are netizens that go full-on xenophobic nationalist (and to some degree it's understandable, if predictable) and netizens that will say something along the lines of "this is just the doing of extremist fundamentalist nutjobs, you can't blame 1+ billion people for this, I am/know plenty of moderate adepts of islam that don't condone such a thing etc etc".
And that seems like a reasonable reply at first. The fact that you shouldn't make such huge generalizations should be pretty obvious. But here is my question: why do people only say this as if they're trying to save face? Why do they only try to shift the blame away? Why are there no "moderate islamists" protesting AGAINST the people who commit these acts? Why are they not publicly denouncing and shaming them? Why are they not making a clear statement through ACTIONS, not words, that they do not support such things and wish to distance themselves?
Someone on r/news made a very interesting analogy, although sadly that post was not that close to the top of the thread. For many of us, while in school, when two or three kids did stupid shit in class, the teacher might punish the whole class, and the students would straighten those fellows out. Why is this not the case here? Why are the "moderate islamists" enabling this attitude and behaviour, especially when it reflects poorly upon them as a whole?
Not to mention what a Dutch fellow pointed out a few pages back, how there are people on Facebook, residents and citizens of a developed European country, saying these attacks are justified.
If someone could explain to me, why these apologists come out of the woodwork and try to shift the blame away, but then continue to enable these actions by not distancing themselves from the extremists, I would be extremely grateful. I think insight into this would benefit us all.
Because in most of the middle-east the bullies are running the class, and peaceful protest is met with violent repression.
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If you have to ask around to find the building, how well prepared are you really?
Maybe it was just a EU-ISIS sleeper cell that was tired of inactivity and jumped up this morning with their AK's and spontaniously decided to do this.
I really hope they are caught.
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
On January 08 2015 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 00:05 FFW_Rude wrote:
Thing i don't get is i read everywhere that it was a really planned action but i see a lot too of the guys asking where the fuck was the redaction. They planned something but didn't know where to go ? It doesn't make sense. What do you mean you are seeing the guys asking where the office was? Like reports of people saying the gunmen were asking where it was?
There were reports that the gunmen burst into another office and asked where the Charlie Hebdo offices were
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On January 08 2015 00:19 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 00:17 VelJa wrote:
This topic is getting down terribly
please don't forget the subject, 12 people DIES, 10 are in trouble, don't make this topic a place where pro and anti religion are fighting.
Show some respect, Use PM's or create another topic. Then stop shit posting and let people who are not acting emotionally discuss.
Discuss in a right topic so
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On January 08 2015 00:12 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 00:09 klup wrote:
Les Parisiens RDV place de la république à 18H00 en soutient à Charlie Hebdo . Si le cœur m'en dit après toutes ces émotions, j'irai probablement boire à la mémoire de ces hommes de courage et de valeurs au Meltdown bastille. Show nested quote +
7. English is the official language.
Please use English only, and make an attempt to spell check and type coherently.
Ceci est un site anglophone.
V沠s堶ennlig 堢enytt engelsk p堤isse sidene.
Engels is de offici묥 taal van deze site, gaarne geen andere taal gebruiken dan Engels.
영어 전용 사이트입니다. 영어를 사용 해주세요.
このサイトは英語を共通語とするので、サイトへの書き込みは原則として英語でお願いします。
Diese seite ist offiziell in Englisch gehalten.
英语是官方语言,请用英语。
Ingles es el lenguaje oficial de este sitio.
Use English, please.
Follow the Ten Commandments
Sorry about that :
Edit : all people in Paris let's follow the meeting at Place de la Republique 18 p.m to support Charlie Hebdo. Maybe if not too shaken drink a beer to the memory of great men that died in that tragedy at Meltdown bastille after (it is nearby).
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EPT
