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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On May 13 2017 22:43 TheDwf wrote:To add to yesterday's conversation... http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/2017/05/13/varoufakis-combattra-la-politique-de-deregulation-et-d-austerite-pronee-par-macron_5127284_3214.htmlVaroufakis warns against Macron's “neoliberal ‘solution’” and criticizes his future deregulation/austerity policies, saying it will simply “redistribute the misery between French workers”. Then: Show nested quote +Selon M. Varoufakis, qui argue de conversations personnelles avec M. Macron, ce dernier a conscience de la casse qu’il va provoquer mais persiste dans cette voie « pour convaincre Berlin d’avancer vers une fédéralisation de la zone euro ». « C’est là que réside la grande erreur d’Emmanuel [Macron] » car « Berlin ne lui donnera rien », tranche M. Varoufakis. Rough translation: According to Mr. Varoufakis, who says he had personal conversations with Mr. Macron, the latter is aware of the breakage [damage] he's going to cause but persists in this way in order to “convince Berlin to advance towards a federalization of the eurozone”. “This is Macron's big mistake” because “Berlin will give him nothing,” judges Mr. Varoufakis.
Berlin will give in eventually,if they would not they would have left the zone already. A federalization of the Eurozone has always been the end goal for all parties involved. Once the southern countries have made enough reforms the northern countries will give in. France now has a president dedicated to such reforums and the block that is pushing those reforms is getting stronger and stronger. 10-20 years and we have a federal Europe I think.
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On May 13 2017 04:36 Nyxisto wrote:
We've gone through a huge restructuring process beginning in the 80's to early 2000's with many lucrative, industrial jobs vanishing. That down-scaling might have been painful but in Germany it has prevented an army of long-term unemployed who will never catch up.
Sure it was a bad development in the sense that nobody actually would do it voluntarily, but what's the alternative? Rigid, traditional employment structures are not up to the task any more. And you're not helping the losers of that development by just preaching about justice or grand social change, they need immediate measures improve the situation. It's an incremental process.
The real bummer was that the people who were actually bold enough to act against the prevailing party dogma like Blaire and Schröder are still getting flak for it years later.
Nice rewriting of history .
Acting as if there were "restructuring process" with no alternatives and present them as neccessary and purely economic, and not politcical decisions, which, just by chance, also fuck over workers and massively harrass unemployed peolple.
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On May 14 2017 03:17 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2017 04:36 Nyxisto wrote:
We've gone through a huge restructuring process beginning in the 80's to early 2000's with many lucrative, industrial jobs vanishing. That down-scaling might have been painful but in Germany it has prevented an army of long-term unemployed who will never catch up.
Sure it was a bad development in the sense that nobody actually would do it voluntarily, but what's the alternative? Rigid, traditional employment structures are not up to the task any more. And you're not helping the losers of that development by just preaching about justice or grand social change, they need immediate measures improve the situation. It's an incremental process.
The real bummer was that the people who were actually bold enough to act against the prevailing party dogma like Blaire and Schröder are still getting flak for it years later. Nice rewriting of history . Acting as if there were "restructuring process" with no alternatives and present them as neccessary and purely economic, and not politcical decisions, which, just by chance, also fuck over workers and massively harrass unemployed peolple.
Given that this process went from the German Rhineland through the Italian south and the American Rustbelt, yes it was a global phenomenon that was largely inevitable. I mean sure you can argue that we could have suppressed the economical development of the whole second and third world and enjoyed the lack of competition that we had in the post-war years but that doesn't sound very worker-friendly at all.
This raging protectionism both on the left and right will absolutely destroy the developing economies. Why do you guys not care about the hundreds of millions of workers in the rest of the world?
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Technology and automation had a bigger effect than globalization in the shrinking of manufacturing jobs. There's even less of an alternative to that other than ludditism.
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On May 14 2017 03:37 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2017 03:17 Paljas wrote:On May 13 2017 04:36 Nyxisto wrote:
We've gone through a huge restructuring process beginning in the 80's to early 2000's with many lucrative, industrial jobs vanishing. That down-scaling might have been painful but in Germany it has prevented an army of long-term unemployed who will never catch up.
Sure it was a bad development in the sense that nobody actually would do it voluntarily, but what's the alternative? Rigid, traditional employment structures are not up to the task any more. And you're not helping the losers of that development by just preaching about justice or grand social change, they need immediate measures improve the situation. It's an incremental process.
The real bummer was that the people who were actually bold enough to act against the prevailing party dogma like Blaire and Schröder are still getting flak for it years later. Nice rewriting of history . Acting as if there were "restructuring process" with no alternatives and present them as neccessary and purely economic, and not politcical decisions, which, just by chance, also fuck over workers and massively harrass unemployed peolple. Given that this process went from the German Rhineland through the Italian south and the American Rustbelt, yes it was a global phenomenon that was largely inevitable. I mean sure you can argue that we could have suppressed the economical development of the whole second and third world and enjoyed the lack of competition that we had in the post-war years but that doesn't sound very worker-friendly at all. This raging protectionism both on the left and right will absolutely destroy the developing economies. Why do you guys not care about the hundreds of millions of workers in the rest of the world?
My bad. I didnt meant the actual process but the political reforms, which you and the politicans that carried them present as purely economic descisions without alternative. this isnt abut protectionism, but the treatment of workers and the erosion of basic human rights.
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On May 14 2017 04:23 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2017 03:37 Nyxisto wrote:On May 14 2017 03:17 Paljas wrote:On May 13 2017 04:36 Nyxisto wrote:
We've gone through a huge restructuring process beginning in the 80's to early 2000's with many lucrative, industrial jobs vanishing. That down-scaling might have been painful but in Germany it has prevented an army of long-term unemployed who will never catch up.
Sure it was a bad development in the sense that nobody actually would do it voluntarily, but what's the alternative? Rigid, traditional employment structures are not up to the task any more. And you're not helping the losers of that development by just preaching about justice or grand social change, they need immediate measures improve the situation. It's an incremental process.
The real bummer was that the people who were actually bold enough to act against the prevailing party dogma like Blaire and Schröder are still getting flak for it years later. Nice rewriting of history . Acting as if there were "restructuring process" with no alternatives and present them as neccessary and purely economic, and not politcical decisions, which, just by chance, also fuck over workers and massively harrass unemployed peolple. Given that this process went from the German Rhineland through the Italian south and the American Rustbelt, yes it was a global phenomenon that was largely inevitable. I mean sure you can argue that we could have suppressed the economical development of the whole second and third world and enjoyed the lack of competition that we had in the post-war years but that doesn't sound very worker-friendly at all. This raging protectionism both on the left and right will absolutely destroy the developing economies. Why do you guys not care about the hundreds of millions of workers in the rest of the world? My bad. I didnt meant the actual process but the political reforms, which you and the politicans that carried them present as purely economic descisions without alternative. this isnt abut protectionism, but the treatment of workers and the erosion of basic human rights.
wha?
What treatment of workers and erosion of basic human rights??
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On May 14 2017 04:01 warding wrote:
Technology and automation had a bigger effect than globalization in the shrinking of manufacturing jobs. There's even less of an alternative to that other than ludditism.
Indeed. Sadly our society's weren't prepared at all for the loss of jobs in manufacturing. We needed re-education programmes. Instead we're stuck with jobless people who don't have the required skills and too many jobs in other sectors.
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The good cop states the expected.
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On May 14 2017 01:30 LegalLord wrote:
So when does Macron assume his responsibilities as president? Or did he already?
Sunday according to Bloomberg.
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Germany3128 Posts
For anyone interested: today is the last state vote before the General Election in Germany and it's in our biggest state NRW(Nordrhein Westfalen, 13 Million potential voters). It's gonna be interesting. The current Primeminister of NRW Hannelore Kraft (SPD) is probably the 2nd most liked SPD politician in Germany and is immensely popular in her state. Yet over the last weeks the CDU has constantly gained on the SPD. Depending on which polls you look at it's SPD in front with 1% or the CDU. But last Sunday 35% of the voters still hadn't decided who to vote for.
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NRW = Nordrhein Westfalen?
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Germany3128 Posts
On May 14 2017 21:08 RvB wrote:
NRW = Nordrhein Westfalen?
Ah sorry! Yes it's Nordrhein Westfalen
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The worst president of the Vth Republic is finally out. Known as “Mr. Little Jokes” for his humorous comments, Hollande left us an ultimate pleasant joke. During the ceremony, he declared: “I leave the country in a far better state than the one I found in 2012.”
+ Show Spoiler +
+600k unemployed people, nearly one million when you count quasi-unemployment: a “far better state” ...
+ Show Spoiler +
In grey, all the cities in which Le Pen was ahead in the first round. +1.2 millions of votes in 5 years, all-time record at 10.6 millions for the second round, Macron elected with 19 points of registered voters lost compared with Chirac vs Le Pen in 2002: excellent results indeed...
Economy was not the only domain where “social-democrats” completed their full conversion to right-wing prescriptions: when it came to State violence, they too governed to the right of Sarkozy.
+ Show Spoiler +
Record of cop brutality against the population (especially people of color, naturally) or protesters... First protester dying to cops during a demonstration on metropolitain soil since 1986... First trade union demonstration forbidden since 1962 before the uproar made them concede... 550+ days of state of emergency, which should last until July 2017 and will most likely be reconducted... And despite this inflation of “security measures,” absolutely gross blunders resulting in dozens of people dying like in Nice...
Some street artist nicely summed up the authoritarian tightening of the last two years: “The State clubbing Liberty”
+ Show Spoiler +
The social-democrats never had more power under the Vth Republic. At the beginning of the mandate, they had everything: presidency, Parliament (they even got Senate for the first time under the Vth Republic), all regions but one, most departments and big cities, ...
+ Show Spoiler +
Five years later, they lost all intermediary elections, their party is on the verge of collapsing after its worst historical score and their 45 years dominance over the French left is gone. I have yet to hear a single word of serious self-critique from people who agreed with the Hollande-Valls-Macron line. Most of them actually blame... the timid left-wing opposition within their own party!
After he left l'Élysée, Hollande went to visit the headquarters of the PS, where a huge “Thank you” banner had been displayed. Unsure if the word is meant or ironic...
+ Show Spoiler +
“There, where I have passed, the grass will never grow again…”
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Estonia4505 Posts
What happened with the FDP in popularity rating? When I asked a political scientist in september last year, they told me they thought the FDP was close to dead. German articles as a response in PM's would be fine, too.
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First results:
SPD 30,5
CDU 34,5
Green 6,0
FDP 12
Pirates 1.2
Linke 5
AfD 7,5
CDU with the upset victory.
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Germany3128 Posts
On May 15 2017 01:06 maze. wrote:
First results:
SPD 30,5
CDU 34,5
Green 6,0
FDP 12
Pirates 1.2
Linke 5
AfD 7,5
CDU with the upset victory.
Linke at 5% currently. If they drop under 5% CDU-FDP has an absolute majority.
Edit: Hannelore Kraft just resigned.
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Am I right to conclude that this is a disaster for the SPD?
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Germany3128 Posts
On May 15 2017 01:50 RvB wrote:
Am I right to conclude that this is a disaster for the SPD?
Worst Result in NRW since the founding of Germany. It's their strongest voter base and it's the Most populous state in Germany. This is a catastrophe
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/98fK6gU.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.20mn.fr/sZpikTKaQlK4a3uxEOFj4A/648x415)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3hTWQtR.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://cdn.antenne.re/linfo/local/cache-gd2/45619f61af18897980a2b9ac62e8684b.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://journal-audible.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/graphe-droite-gauche-5ieme-rep.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/F4RRAjZ.jpg)
