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On October 13 2016 15:51 Mafe wrote: I struggle to believe this. Almost every single high profile case of terrorism had some major fuckups by our law enforcement system. And typically even AFTER it was discovered, and everybody should have been aware of the importance of the case.
I always held our police in relatively high esteem, but now I wonder if this also happens in cases which dont get as much media attention.
Almost certainly. I don't see why terrorism cases should be exceptions. If anything, you'd expect the force to put the best men on the job, given the media attention.
Although I don't see how you'd blame suicide in a jail cell on the police. Isn't that the warden's job?
"Law enforcement" then.
I don't know what the hell is going on really. It looks like Bavaria needs to outsource their police force to the rest of Germany, they seem to be the only ones that don't majorly fuck up.
Earlier this week I was joking about how the escaped terror supect will be in custody within hours since our police is supposed to be much better than, say, Belgiums. TT what a screwup.
Police is Belgium is the worst of europe tho. They knew where Abdelslam was since month but the information was loss somewhere in the bureaucracy. Can't take that seriously.
Ehhhh, kind of, I guess.
End of November, a report was filed that said: Abid Aberkan, son of Djamila Mohamed, and cousin of Salah Abdeslam, is potentially radicalising. There was a footnote in the report that he had allegedly been in contact with the Abdeslam brothers.
This report was never sent to the database and did not reach the right people.
4 months later Abdeslam is found in Mohamed's house.
To say that the police "knew where Abdeslam was" is stretching the truth a little bit.
The report about Abid Aberkan said he was radicalising and that he had contact with Salah Abdelslam. And the chief of police decided not to transmit the report to the antiterrorist services. Plus, they basically had info on him and his brother since 2014, never followed it. A judge asked the police to put him on phone surveillance somewhere in 2015 and they did not do it due to budgetary restrictions. They also acquired some info in 2015, most notably USB data and some phone calls on Salah and Brahim but didn't use it ... come on.
Worth noting that there are hundreds of radicalising youngsters in Molenbeek, and they all have contact with the Abdeslam brothers (they owned a pub in the area). That in itself is no reason to go investigate Aberkan's dad's house. You'd have 100s of houses to investigate if you follow that logic. The media blew this up out of proportion, as they often do.
I live in Dilbeek btw, next to Molenbeek. The situation there is not pretty.
On October 13 2016 15:51 Mafe wrote: I struggle to believe this. Almost every single high profile case of terrorism had some major fuckups by our law enforcement system. And typically even AFTER it was discovered, and everybody should have been aware of the importance of the case.
I always held our police in relatively high esteem, but now I wonder if this also happens in cases which dont get as much media attention.
Almost certainly. I don't see why terrorism cases should be exceptions. If anything, you'd expect the force to put the best men on the job, given the media attention.
Although I don't see how you'd blame suicide in a jail cell on the police. Isn't that the warden's job?
"Law enforcement" then.
I don't know what the hell is going on really. It looks like Bavaria needs to outsource their police force to the rest of Germany, they seem to be the only ones that don't majorly fuck up.
Earlier this week I was joking about how the escaped terror supect will be in custody within hours since our police is supposed to be much better than, say, Belgiums. TT what a screwup.
Police is Belgium is the worst of europe tho. They knew where Abdelslam was since month but the information was loss somewhere in the bureaucracy. Can't take that seriously.
Ehhhh, kind of, I guess.
End of November, a report was filed that said: Abid Aberkan, son of Djamila Mohamed, and cousin of Salah Abdeslam, is potentially radicalising. There was a footnote in the report that he had allegedly been in contact with the Abdeslam brothers.
This report was never sent to the database and did not reach the right people.
4 months later Abdeslam is found in Mohamed's house.
To say that the police "knew where Abdeslam was" is stretching the truth a little bit.
The report about Abid Aberkan said he was radicalising and that he had contact with Salah Abdelslam. And the chief of police decided not to transmit the report to the antiterrorist services. Plus, they basically had info on him and his brother since 2014, never followed it. A judge asked the police to put him on phone surveillance somewhere in 2015 and they did not do it due to budgetary restrictions. They also acquired some info in 2015, most notably USB data and some phone calls on Salah and Brahim but didn't use it ... come on.
On October 13 2016 20:13 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Could be worse. Your police could be as bad as the Americans. To be fair, the German police only ever seem to muck up in terrorism cases. I suppose the most interesting aspect of the event was that he was apprehended and detained by the syrian refugees, but I am sure the more bigoted of us can spin it one way or another.
The american police is pretty efficient imo. The problem is that they kill their own citizens for no reasons.
Lol. Kind of a big downside, don't you think? It´s like saying Duterte is pretty efficient at wiping out the drug trade in the Philippines.
On October 13 2016 15:51 Mafe wrote: I struggle to believe this. Almost every single high profile case of terrorism had some major fuckups by our law enforcement system. And typically even AFTER it was discovered, and everybody should have been aware of the importance of the case.
I always held our police in relatively high esteem, but now I wonder if this also happens in cases which dont get as much media attention.
Almost certainly. I don't see why terrorism cases should be exceptions. If anything, you'd expect the force to put the best men on the job, given the media attention.
Although I don't see how you'd blame suicide in a jail cell on the police. Isn't that the warden's job?
"Law enforcement" then.
I don't know what the hell is going on really. It looks like Bavaria needs to outsource their police force to the rest of Germany, they seem to be the only ones that don't majorly fuck up.
Earlier this week I was joking about how the escaped terror supect will be in custody within hours since our police is supposed to be much better than, say, Belgiums. TT what a screwup.
Police is Belgium is the worst of europe tho. They knew where Abdelslam was since month but the information was loss somewhere in the bureaucracy. Can't take that seriously.
Ehhhh, kind of, I guess.
End of November, a report was filed that said: Abid Aberkan, son of Djamila Mohamed, and cousin of Salah Abdeslam, is potentially radicalising. There was a footnote in the report that he had allegedly been in contact with the Abdeslam brothers.
This report was never sent to the database and did not reach the right people.
4 months later Abdeslam is found in Mohamed's house.
To say that the police "knew where Abdeslam was" is stretching the truth a little bit.
The report about Abid Aberkan said he was radicalising and that he had contact with Salah Abdelslam. And the chief of police decided not to transmit the report to the antiterrorist services. Plus, they basically had info on him and his brother since 2014, never followed it. A judge asked the police to put him on phone surveillance somewhere in 2015 and they did not do it due to budgetary restrictions. They also acquired some info in 2015, most notably USB data and some phone calls on Salah and Brahim but didn't use it ... come on.
Worth noting that there are hundreds of radicalising youngsters in Molenbeek, and they all have contact with the Abdeslam brothers (they owned a pub in the area). That in itself is no reason to go investigate Aberkan's dad's house. You'd have 100s of houses to investigate if you follow that logic. The media blew this up out of proportion, as they often do.
I live in Dilbeek btw, next to Molenbeek. The situation there is not pretty.
Can you give us more info on that ? The media are pretty bad on that they ever present molenbeek as a great multicultural area or as a shithole. What do you think ?
On October 13 2016 15:51 Mafe wrote: I struggle to believe this. Almost every single high profile case of terrorism had some major fuckups by our law enforcement system. And typically even AFTER it was discovered, and everybody should have been aware of the importance of the case.
I always held our police in relatively high esteem, but now I wonder if this also happens in cases which dont get as much media attention.
Almost certainly. I don't see why terrorism cases should be exceptions. If anything, you'd expect the force to put the best men on the job, given the media attention.
Although I don't see how you'd blame suicide in a jail cell on the police. Isn't that the warden's job?
"Law enforcement" then.
I don't know what the hell is going on really. It looks like Bavaria needs to outsource their police force to the rest of Germany, they seem to be the only ones that don't majorly fuck up.
Earlier this week I was joking about how the escaped terror supect will be in custody within hours since our police is supposed to be much better than, say, Belgiums. TT what a screwup.
Police is Belgium is the worst of europe tho. They knew where Abdelslam was since month but the information was loss somewhere in the bureaucracy. Can't take that seriously.
Ehhhh, kind of, I guess.
End of November, a report was filed that said: Abid Aberkan, son of Djamila Mohamed, and cousin of Salah Abdeslam, is potentially radicalising. There was a footnote in the report that he had allegedly been in contact with the Abdeslam brothers.
This report was never sent to the database and did not reach the right people.
4 months later Abdeslam is found in Mohamed's house.
To say that the police "knew where Abdeslam was" is stretching the truth a little bit.
The report about Abid Aberkan said he was radicalising and that he had contact with Salah Abdelslam. And the chief of police decided not to transmit the report to the antiterrorist services. Plus, they basically had info on him and his brother since 2014, never followed it. A judge asked the police to put him on phone surveillance somewhere in 2015 and they did not do it due to budgetary restrictions. They also acquired some info in 2015, most notably USB data and some phone calls on Salah and Brahim but didn't use it ... come on.
Worth noting that there are hundreds of radicalising youngsters in Molenbeek, and they all have contact with the Abdeslam brothers (they owned a pub in the area). That in itself is no reason to go investigate Aberkan's dad's house. You'd have 100s of houses to investigate if you follow that logic. The media blew this up out of proportion, as they often do.
I live in Dilbeek btw, next to Molenbeek. The situation there is not pretty.
Can you give us more info on that ? The media are pretty bad on that they ever present molenbeek as a great multicultural area or as a shithole. What do you think ?
I was there just two weeks ago. I found it pretty boring. Neither shithole nor great, just a regular residential area with some businesses along the river.
On October 13 2016 15:51 Mafe wrote: I struggle to believe this. Almost every single high profile case of terrorism had some major fuckups by our law enforcement system. And typically even AFTER it was discovered, and everybody should have been aware of the importance of the case.
I always held our police in relatively high esteem, but now I wonder if this also happens in cases which dont get as much media attention.
Almost certainly. I don't see why terrorism cases should be exceptions. If anything, you'd expect the force to put the best men on the job, given the media attention.
Although I don't see how you'd blame suicide in a jail cell on the police. Isn't that the warden's job?
"Law enforcement" then.
I don't know what the hell is going on really. It looks like Bavaria needs to outsource their police force to the rest of Germany, they seem to be the only ones that don't majorly fuck up.
Earlier this week I was joking about how the escaped terror supect will be in custody within hours since our police is supposed to be much better than, say, Belgiums. TT what a screwup.
Police is Belgium is the worst of europe tho. They knew where Abdelslam was since month but the information was loss somewhere in the bureaucracy. Can't take that seriously.
Ehhhh, kind of, I guess.
End of November, a report was filed that said: Abid Aberkan, son of Djamila Mohamed, and cousin of Salah Abdeslam, is potentially radicalising. There was a footnote in the report that he had allegedly been in contact with the Abdeslam brothers.
This report was never sent to the database and did not reach the right people.
4 months later Abdeslam is found in Mohamed's house.
To say that the police "knew where Abdeslam was" is stretching the truth a little bit.
The report about Abid Aberkan said he was radicalising and that he had contact with Salah Abdelslam. And the chief of police decided not to transmit the report to the antiterrorist services. Plus, they basically had info on him and his brother since 2014, never followed it. A judge asked the police to put him on phone surveillance somewhere in 2015 and they did not do it due to budgetary restrictions. They also acquired some info in 2015, most notably USB data and some phone calls on Salah and Brahim but didn't use it ... come on.
Worth noting that there are hundreds of radicalising youngsters in Molenbeek, and they all have contact with the Abdeslam brothers (they owned a pub in the area). That in itself is no reason to go investigate Aberkan's dad's house. You'd have 100s of houses to investigate if you follow that logic. The media blew this up out of proportion, as they often do.
I live in Dilbeek btw, next to Molenbeek. The situation there is not pretty.
Can you give us more info on that ? The media are pretty bad on that they ever present molenbeek as a great multicultural area or as a shithole. What do you think ?
I'd go for shithole. There are constant fights between the (overwhelmingly muslim) local youth and the police. Here's an article from last month if you're interested, it's in Dutch though. http://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20160918_02473948 Here is a video of it:
Stuff like this happens on a weekly basis, I don't go there anymore
Not sure which areas Zatic is refering to, I can only think of Schaarbeek that's equal or worse.
On October 13 2016 15:51 Mafe wrote: I struggle to believe this. Almost every single high profile case of terrorism had some major fuckups by our law enforcement system. And typically even AFTER it was discovered, and everybody should have been aware of the importance of the case.
I always held our police in relatively high esteem, but now I wonder if this also happens in cases which dont get as much media attention.
Almost certainly. I don't see why terrorism cases should be exceptions. If anything, you'd expect the force to put the best men on the job, given the media attention.
Although I don't see how you'd blame suicide in a jail cell on the police. Isn't that the warden's job?
"Law enforcement" then.
I don't know what the hell is going on really. It looks like Bavaria needs to outsource their police force to the rest of Germany, they seem to be the only ones that don't majorly fuck up.
Earlier this week I was joking about how the escaped terror supect will be in custody within hours since our police is supposed to be much better than, say, Belgiums. TT what a screwup.
Police is Belgium is the worst of europe tho. They knew where Abdelslam was since month but the information was loss somewhere in the bureaucracy. Can't take that seriously.
Just like practically everything else in the public sector, the Belgian police is highly politiced. Brussels, which is little bigger than a small departmental city in France or Germany, has six different police zones, each doing pretty much whatever it pleases. There have been many calls to unite those police zones, but due to political interests of the Wallonian Parti Socialiste (the majority of Brussels' 19 mayors - I'm not kidding, Brussels has 19 mayors - are members of that party) that'll never happen. Hardly anyone was surprised when they heard that vital information on Abdeslam had somehow gotten lost. People were outraged, sure, but hardly anyone was surprised.
Not to mention the absolute disgrace that is the Belgian judiciary, who has the strange tendency to give people the impression that criminals can get away with pretty much anything since prison sentences of less than 3 years are hardly ever executed, and high-profile criminals have a rather high chance of being acquitted on technicalities.
On October 13 2016 15:51 Mafe wrote: I struggle to believe this. Almost every single high profile case of terrorism had some major fuckups by our law enforcement system. And typically even AFTER it was discovered, and everybody should have been aware of the importance of the case.
I always held our police in relatively high esteem, but now I wonder if this also happens in cases which dont get as much media attention.
Almost certainly. I don't see why terrorism cases should be exceptions. If anything, you'd expect the force to put the best men on the job, given the media attention.
Although I don't see how you'd blame suicide in a jail cell on the police. Isn't that the warden's job?
"Law enforcement" then.
I don't know what the hell is going on really. It looks like Bavaria needs to outsource their police force to the rest of Germany, they seem to be the only ones that don't majorly fuck up.
Earlier this week I was joking about how the escaped terror supect will be in custody within hours since our police is supposed to be much better than, say, Belgiums. TT what a screwup.
Police is Belgium is the worst of europe tho. They knew where Abdelslam was since month but the information was loss somewhere in the bureaucracy. Can't take that seriously.
Just like practically everything else in the public sector, the Belgian police is highly politiced. Brussels, which is little bigger than a small departmental city in France or Germany, has six different police zones, each doing pretty much whatever it pleases. There have been many calls to unite those police zones, but due to political interests of the Wallonian Parti Socialiste (the majority of Brussels' 19 mayors - I'm not kidding, Brussels has 19 mayors - are members of that party) that'll never happen. Hardly anyone was surprised when they heard that vital information on Abdeslam had somehow gotten lost. People were outraged, sure, but hardly anyone was surprised.
Not to mention the absolute disgrace that is the Belgian judiciary, who has the strange tendency to give people the impression that criminals can get away with pretty much anything since prison sentences of less than 3 years are hardly ever executed, and high-profile criminals have a rather high chance of being acquitted on technicalities.
Angela Merkel wants to get other European Union member countries to agree to step up sanctions against Russia because of its role in the war in Syria, a German newspaper cited sources close to the German chancellor as saying.
The issue of sanctions is due to be discussed at an EU summit on Thursday and Friday. Both the EU and the United States have already imposed economic and other sanctions on Russia for its seizure of the Crimean peninsula from Ukraine in 2014, and for its support for pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine.
Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung cited the sources as saying it was proving hard to get the agreement of the Social Democrats - the junior partner to Merkel's conservatives in Germany's ruling coalition - and other EU countries on tougher measures, but that "resentment towards the Russians has increased".
The attack on a U.N. and Syrian Arab Red Crescent convoy in Syria last month and Russia's actions in Aleppo have contributed to that, the newspaper cited the sources as saying.
Western powers have accused Russia and Syria of committing atrocities by bombing hospitals, killing civilians and preventing medical evacuations, accusations that they reject. The United States has said two Russian warplanes bombed the aid convoy, but Moscow denies this.
U.S. President Barack Obama told Merkel by telephone that he would support "a tough response" if European countries could agree on that, F.A.S. cited sources as saying.
It cited the sources as saying further sanctions were being considered against the aviation industry or in sectors that affected the Russian Defence Ministry.
A German government spokesperson could not immediately comment on the report.
On Oct. 7, Merkel urged Russia to use its influence with the Syrian government to end the bombardment of Aleppo. She did not address sanctions directly, but said the international community must do all it could to bring about a halt in the fighting and get supplies to civilians.
I'm seeing a lot of conflicted opinions on that matter and it would definitely be a difficult position to push for. I guess we'll just see in a week at the summit what is actually discussed.
The drive to put Greece back on the road to recovery intensifies this week when auditors representing the indebted country’s creditors arrive in Athens for their latest review of the Greek economy.
Fourteen months after being bailed out to the tune of €86bn (£77bn) – Greece’s third financial rescue since 2010 – representatives of the EU and the International Monetary Fund fly in on Monday to review progress on economic reforms promised by the government in exchange for rescue funds.
The creditors’ visit is taking place against a backdrop of ongoing economic difficulty for the nation. Seven years into its worst slump in post-war history, the eurozone’s weakest link is saddled with anaemic growth, stubbornly high unemployment, poor export growth, consumer pessimism and debt of more than €330bn.
The Bruegel Institute, the Brussels-based economics thinktank, warned last week that Athens would need a fourth bailout when its current lifeline ends in 2018. “Greece will not be able to borrow from the markets,” said Zsolt Darvas, a senior economist at the institute. “Therefore there will be a fourth financial assistance programme.”
The IMF has said that recovery is impossible until Athens is granted some form of debt forgiveness. With Germany facing national elections next autumn, its hardline finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble remains adamantly opposed to waiving a proportion of Greece’s debt.
Friction is such that the German press has again raised the spectre of Greece leaving the eurozone – “Grexit” – saying the country’s ejection from the single currency might be the best option to combat falling living standards. Germany’s lower house approved Athens’ latest aid package on the premise that the IMF would be involved.
In May, eurozone finance ministers said the fulfilment of a first review – completed with the disbursement of €1.1bn in funds a week ago – would pave the way to discussion of debt relief. The leftist-led government in Athens has made a debt cut the cornerstone of its economic policy, with officials believing it is the only way to guarantee re-entry into bond markets. This would also allow the European Central Bank to buy Greek government debt under its quantitative easing programme.
The creditors are looking at the implementation of promised reforms that aim to put restrictions on some labour practices, including the ability to negotiate wages collectively and stage industrial action.
Tsipras has betrayed his nation in july 2015. Now, Greece is condemned to the ruin and misery with those austerity measures. How human and solidary the EU is. But coming from bureaucrats who were from Goldman sachs, that's not surprising. But hey, there is a growing inclination of leaving it in my country, I guess in 10 years we will be ready.
there are a lot of assumptions there: - NO wins - Renzi would then resign because he said he would ... - new elections in Italy would follow - with new elections, italians could also be called to vote in a YES/NO poll regarding EU. that's a whole lot of ifs.
On October 19 2016 05:17 stilt wrote: Tsipras has betrayed his nation in july 2015. Now, Greece is condemned to the ruin and misery with those austerity measures. How human and solidary the EU is. But coming from bureaucrats who were from Goldman sachs, that's not surprising. But hey, there is a growing inclination of leaving it in my country, I guess in 10 years we will be ready.
Europe is pretty solidary. Greece has been a net receiver from the eu,they already have had a lot of money for basicly free,money that other countries didn't get. Everyone wants to spend more then they make,but when everyone is doing that there is a big problem. Greece should never have joined the eu but at the time they where all to happy to exchange their always falling drachme and high inflation for the strong euro and low inflation. The euro itself was a big gift from the north towards the south, in the order of several trillions. That's why you saw a huge boom in Greece after the introduction of the euro,a lot of money was being pumped into the country. But that was a big waste,silly to expect that the Greece economy would eventually run with the same efficiency as the german economy,maybe it was more wishfull thinking "lets spend big and something good will come out of it in the end" For the north it was a trade off,they got the free market in return and their industry was very capable of making good use of that free market. They went for the long term advantage,greece got the short term advantage. But for the citizens in the north there was no trade off, inflation of 100% in 5 years, value of any safings like pensions cut in halve. Europe can print another 200b to give to Greece but it has to stop at one point?
What is interesting in all of this is the strong decline in democracy. Its not only in Greece but you can see it all over Europe. The government has their own agenda,beeing pushed by the industry and financial lobby. The government no longer works for the people and does what the people want. Meanwhile the media try their best to "educate" the population in what they should want and what they should find an issue. Globalisation is pushed on all levels,its a force far stronger then democracy and democracy will loose this battle. It already has lost the battle but it will slowly become more visible.
EPT
