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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On September 15 2016 00:58 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2016 00:44 WhiteDog wrote:The question is not "what's best between capitalism and communism ?", it's "how can we build a better world ?" and the communist experience can have some clue on that. This is simply too jagged a pill for many to swallow, particularly for those who pretend they live in a black and white world.
And I fully understands why. Communism has also something to do with Mao's desire to wipe out all wolves or kill all birds.
I come from a country where almost a third of the population voted for the communist party tho.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
I think we should just continue to pretend that there is a "winner" instead of acknowledging that the communist/socialist systems do some things right, while the capitalist/market systems do other things right and that a hybrid of the two is better than overemphasis on either one on its own.
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On September 14 2016 21:05 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2016 06:57 Nyxisto wrote:
So instead of treating this as an intellectual hobby where the only form of left-wing politics is acceptable is one that pleases privileged Europeans why not simply use any means that drastically reduces poverty no matter where? And even Picketty pointed out that the world has never been more egalitarian than it is today, despite living in a capitalist system. From memory, Piketty is actually saying that current inequalities are returning to the standards of the worst periods of the XIXth and the beginning of the XXth century. The result of decades of deregulation is that the 62 wealthiest persons on Earth own as much as the 3.5 billion poorest people. Of course, even under neoliberalism, the majority of the population does get something from growth, but a growing part of the wealth created is captured by the richest.
A sidenote you do have to make with equality being on the rise in much of the Western world is the increasing disappearance of jobs for low-skilled people, either through outsourcement or technological advances.
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A 15-year-old boy was arrested in Paris on Wednesday after authorities discovered his plans to carry out an act of terrorism, making him the third minor in less than a week to be apprehended.
Judicial sources said the boy appears to be part of the same network of radicalized individuals as two other adolescents arrested and jailed over the weekend, one in Paris and one just west of the city.
He was placed under watch and questioned about possibly belonging to a “group of delinquents with ties to a terrorist group,” French TV station BFMTV said.
The teen was arrested in Paris’ 20th arrondissement, or district, a neighborhood known to be one of the city’s least affluent, and home to large immigrant communities.
Authorities searched his home on Wednesday. They were allegedly aware of the teenager’s radicalized activity, according to BFMTV. He was filed under the “S” category, meaning that he was being monitored by the state.
It’s work that “is keeping us busy night and day,” interior minister Bernard Cazeneuve said on Wednesday. “Our investigation work is more intense than it’s ever been given the heightened threat level and the calls, coming from various players based in Syria who communicate via encrypted messaging, for French people to carry out attacks.”
There are about 20,000 people who fall under the “S” category in France, roughly 10,000 of whom have shown ties to radical Islam.
Source
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I've left out a lot of the violence over the last month or two. So I'll just update on the last couple days. Merkel imprisoned when?
Copy pasted from elsewhere so don't mind the spelling:
Bulgaria, Wednesday 14/09 http://www.novinite.com/articles/176295/Police Eases Tension Between Ovcha Kupel Residents and Migrants- migrants form a refugee centre throw stones at a passing car
- come out trying to scare the driver and local people
- that night residents of the nearby neighbourhood gather around the centre with bats, battons and all manner of hand held weapons shouting "come out shitters" (излeзтe бe лaйнapи)
- backed up by football hooligans
- police is dispatched immediately preventing any violence
- no migrant is seen leaving the centre since then Greece, Thursday 15/9 http://www.cbsnews.com/news/europe-migrant-crisis-far-right-groups-clash-refugees-migrants-germany-greece/-residents of the Greek island of Chios organize a protest
-some migrants try to start shit
- the protest heads to the migrant camp containing 1800 Syrians, Pakistani, Afghani and Iraqi (self-reported nationalities)
- turns violent
- police uses tear gas to disperse the protesters
- some clashes between protesters and police ensue Germany, Thursday 15/09 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37372029- city of Bautzen
- 80 locals (men and women) gather at the town square to protest against a migrant shelter
- 20 migrants appear and start insulting them shouting "Germany is ours"
- bottles, stones and other debris are thrown from both groups
- 100 police officers dispatched
- the migrants start throwing wooden planks and bottles at the police
- a bit later protesters have surrounded the shelter preventing an ambulance to reach the migrants and help an injured migrant city of Heidenau
- reports of protest by locals
- unconfirmed reports of violence Netherlands http://www.112groningen.nl/Groningen/nieuws/28814/onrust-rond-azc-bij-oude-pekela-video.html
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Bratislava EU meeting: Merkel says bloc in 'critical situation'
The European Union is in a "critical situation", the German chancellor has said, as leaders meet in Slovakia to discuss ways to regain trust after the UK's vote to leave the bloc.
Angela Merkel said they needed to show they could improve on security, defence co-operation and the economy.
But EU countries are deeply divided over how to bolster growth and respond to the influx of migrants.
Meeting in Bratislava without the UK, they will not discuss Brexit talks.
"We need solutions for Europe and we are in a critical situation," Mrs Merkel said as she arrived at the gathering.
"You can't solve all Europe's problems in one summit. What we have to do is show in our deeds we can do things better in the realms of security and fighting terrorism, and in the field of defence."
Even though Britain's referendum result is not on the agenda, and British Prime Minister Theresa May is not attending the summit, there is little doubt that Brexit will overshadow the meeting.
French President Francois Hollande said: "Either we move in the direction of disintegration, of dilution, or we work together to inject new momentum, we relaunch the European project."
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37380429
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On September 16 2016 22:03 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +Bratislava EU meeting: Merkel says bloc in 'critical situation'
The European Union is in a "critical situation", the German chancellor has said, as leaders meet in Slovakia to discuss ways to regain trust after the UK's vote to leave the bloc.
Angela Merkel said they needed to show they could improve on security, defence co-operation and the economy.
But EU countries are deeply divided over how to bolster growth and respond to the influx of migrants.
Meeting in Bratislava without the UK, they will not discuss Brexit talks.
"We need solutions for Europe and we are in a critical situation," Mrs Merkel said as she arrived at the gathering.
"You can't solve all Europe's problems in one summit. What we have to do is show in our deeds we can do things better in the realms of security and fighting terrorism, and in the field of defence."
Even though Britain's referendum result is not on the agenda, and British Prime Minister Theresa May is not attending the summit, there is little doubt that Brexit will overshadow the meeting.
French President Francois Hollande said: "Either we move in the direction of disintegration, of dilution, or we work together to inject new momentum, we relaunch the European project." http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37380429 how one should read that - we want an army else there's no European project so we're gonna bullshit people and bribe politicians until we get one.
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I read it as "we don't know what to do so we'll do the same but harder".
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On September 17 2016 00:23 Sent. wrote:
I read it as "we don't know what to do so we'll do the same but harder".
When has the EU leadership ever done anything else?
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On September 17 2016 00:23 Sent. wrote:
I read it as "we don't know what to do so we'll do the same but harder".
Yeah, as usual. They have the mental flexibility of a sect member, no vision and no plan to change course. On the road to collapse, then.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Whenever someone isn't pleased with the state of the EU and wants change, it "can't set a precedent and allow other countries to follow suit." When people vote for parties that oppose it they are "racist." When people consider leaving the EU they "can't risk compromising the Europe project." When they ask for reforms to stay the EU "can't set a precedent." And so on.
Few people would agree that the EU is doing well right now, but until a few years ago I thought that it would ultimately work things out. Now I see that there is a pretty significant likelihood that they will simply refuse to change and force the union to come apart at some point within the next few decades. If it doesn't change course that will be what ultimately happens.
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You don't even need to call them racists. Just the word Europhobe is thrown around all the time like it really means something. If you don't believe in our magnificient nonsense, you are a pariah, just like they did to whoever oppossed to Maastrich in its current iteration back in the 90's. Atleast it is not working so well now.
On September 16 2016 23:53 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2016 22:03 Godwrath wrote:Bratislava EU meeting: Merkel says bloc in 'critical situation'
The European Union is in a "critical situation", the German chancellor has said, as leaders meet in Slovakia to discuss ways to regain trust after the UK's vote to leave the bloc.
Angela Merkel said they needed to show they could improve on security, defence co-operation and the economy.
But EU countries are deeply divided over how to bolster growth and respond to the influx of migrants.
Meeting in Bratislava without the UK, they will not discuss Brexit talks.
"We need solutions for Europe and we are in a critical situation," Mrs Merkel said as she arrived at the gathering.
"You can't solve all Europe's problems in one summit. What we have to do is show in our deeds we can do things better in the realms of security and fighting terrorism, and in the field of defence."
Even though Britain's referendum result is not on the agenda, and British Prime Minister Theresa May is not attending the summit, there is little doubt that Brexit will overshadow the meeting.
French President Francois Hollande said: "Either we move in the direction of disintegration, of dilution, or we work together to inject new momentum, we relaunch the European project." http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37380429 how one should read that - we want an army else there's no European project so we're gonna bullshit people and bribe politicians until we get one.
Indeed, and they will use the things they messed up big time as an excuse for more centralization under the "better coordination"'s umbrella.
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Well if your opposition to the EU is synonymous with a position of "I don't trust the experts" and "Brussels dictatorship is ruining my life" I think it's fair to call someone phobic, which is after all irrational fear and distrust based on ignorance.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
For fucks sake, sometimes you search "What is X" not because you don't know what X is but because you want more (encyclopedic) knowledge about the topic.
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Yeah that would be believable if the whole campaign wasn't based on factually untrue and nightmarish claims about the nature of the European Union, ranging from "70% of our laws are made in Brussels" to "the NHS will be superrich once we leave", which of course were just lies.
Most people don't even know what the structure of the EU looks like. Go through any street in Europe and ask people what the difference between the commission, the parliament and the council is.
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On September 17 2016 03:03 Nyxisto wrote:Well if your opposition to the EU is synonymous with a position of "I don't trust the experts" and "Brussels dictatorship is ruining my life" I think it's fair to call someone phobic, which is after all irrational fear and distrust based on ignorance. https://twitter.com/GoogleTrends/status/746303118820937728
This was really the best thing you could find to support your silly arguments? Shit dude, it's probably time to reconsider instead then...
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well you're free to dig through the campaign again and show me all the well grounded and researched arguments that the Brexit campaign managed to come with. Oh wait, that didn't happen, it was pure appeal to the lowest common denominator of the electorate. It was so terrible that even Farrage decided to run away. It was the nastiest and most demagogic campaign that we've had on the continent in a long time.
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On September 17 2016 03:14 Ghostcom wrote:This was really the best thing you could find to support your silly arguments? Shit dude, it's probably time to reconsider instead then...
The collective lack of political will with regards to the carrying out and implementing of Brexit post-passage speaks for itself, no?
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On September 17 2016 03:32 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 03:14 Ghostcom wrote:On September 17 2016 03:03 Nyxisto wrote:Well if your opposition to the EU is synonymous with a position of "I don't trust the experts" and "Brussels dictatorship is ruining my life" I think it's fair to call someone phobic, which is after all irrational fear and distrust based on ignorance. https://twitter.com/GoogleTrends/status/746303118820937728 This was really the best thing you could find to support your silly arguments? Shit dude, it's probably time to reconsider instead then... The collective lack of political will with regards to the carrying out and implementing of Brexit post-passage speaks for itself, no?
Most forumites complaints and other countries about the EU aren't UK's probrexit side main idiotic positions. No matter how hard he wants to ignore the fatal flaws of the Euro, so Nyxisto is just building a strawman here. If it wasn't because normally he doesn't post that way and our obvious somewhat "liberal" bias, he would be Gotunk's liberal twin in our eyes.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On September 17 2016 03:32 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 03:14 Ghostcom wrote:On September 17 2016 03:03 Nyxisto wrote:Well if your opposition to the EU is synonymous with a position of "I don't trust the experts" and "Brussels dictatorship is ruining my life" I think it's fair to call someone phobic, which is after all irrational fear and distrust based on ignorance. https://twitter.com/GoogleTrends/status/746303118820937728 This was really the best thing you could find to support your silly arguments? Shit dude, it's probably time to reconsider instead then... The collective lack of political will with regards to the carrying out and implementing of Brexit post-passage speaks for itself, no?
Collective lack of political will on behalf of the pro-EU elected government to carry out the results of a referendum it didn't support?
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EPT
