Quite honestly, its very dense to pretend that you don't know what the article says and keep acting like specific knowledge such as training in climate science, is necessary to come to the conclusions of that article. That is the opposite of what you want to test for because its confirmation bias, "Well this group says X, and since we tested for whether people who said X would say X, we got a 99% correlation, amazing!"
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 441
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
|
cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
Quite honestly, its very dense to pretend that you don't know what the article says and keep acting like specific knowledge such as training in climate science, is necessary to come to the conclusions of that article. That is the opposite of what you want to test for because its confirmation bias, "Well this group says X, and since we tested for whether people who said X would say X, we got a 99% correlation, amazing!" | ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
basically it overstates the case about cultural cognition being all there is. dan kahan's pet project is all about pushing that idea | ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~lch/Hamilton2012_PolarGeo_authors.pdf | ||
|
cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
This analysis supports previous findings of polarization among high-information respondents. In fact, the paper itself says almost exactly what I said that if you ask about specific climate questions you are biasing your group to include people who are concerned! For example, people who believe the globe is warming could be more likely to retain and credit information about ice caps melting, compared with people who believe the globe is not warming. Biased assimilation and related ideas discussed earlier imply that some climate-related information is accepted because it fits broader beliefs about the reality of climate change, rather than shaping those beliefs in the first place. The prospect that retention of certain climate facts or “facts” could behave like a dependent variable, predicted from general beliefs, suggests hypotheses for future research. | ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the problem i identified is yuuuge and obvious to anyone with some social science research experience let me help you out to make this easier: obviously motivated belief mechanism still works to make ideologically pleasing conclusions more admissible in factual inquiry but this study does not suggest actual science literacy is irrelevant. it just does not capture that in any serious way | ||
|
Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On March 15 2016 22:20 WhiteDog wrote: I empathize as a man with those people, not because they tear down frontiers but because they flee conflicts. This situation has nothing to do with socialism : it is the capitalism (inequalities, war, etc.) that leads those people to tear down border actually, and the development of capitalism has always passed through the extension of the market above regional or local interests / culture. You're mistaking socialism for libetarianism, and capitalism for conservatism, and it's quite insulting to be fair because you paint me as young idiot that vote the left whatever the reason because I'm somewhat sure of its moral superiority and not for the actual political proposals that the left may have and its actual effect in context. My point was exactly that Merkel decided her actions on ethics and ideology without thinking the consequences - much like with the Greeks. You can welcome all the refugee you want, if you don't take into consideration the natives and their feeling/desires, it can only result to failure and violence. I'm not sure it makes sense at all to frame this like a national issue. I mean we've literally never respected their borders to the point where we just decided that it would be fun to draw them in the sand ourselves and the Russian's and American's have been going at it on their soil for pretty much five decades. And now a million or two of those people hand us the paycheck and we're all up in arms and ask how they dare to cross our holy borders? While they're fighting secular dictators that have for some reason ended up running every single country in the region? It's almost comical really. | ||
|
lord_nibbler
Germany591 Posts
I do not get what you are actually arguing about. ![]() The quotes you give are either so obvious to me, than I can see no point of contention, or they are completely over my head... I just watched a talk about AI, the human brain and our understanding of its model. Turns out, to classify thoughts and believes with a social criteria is a normal cognitive function. It is an integral part of learning. So of course a lot of 'truth' you hold, are very dependent on you social environment. Here is the video: Computational Meta-Psychology (Watch the intro and then just jump to 33min if you don't have time.) | ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
| ||
|
cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
| ||
|
xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
go ham on http://climatecommunication.yale.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Global-Warming-CCAM-March-2015.pdf as being ONE of many surveys on climate change used by NSF(National Science Foundation). after you read it, go find some more then read those too. when you've had enough of them, go tell those people at Yale that they suck, 'cause i'm done here. | ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
as for clutz, no, i did not propose testing climate scientists just a higher bar of competence that actually touch on the science issues involved in the climate questions. there is no selection issue, you are looking for collinearity between polar knowledge and ideology but they excluded that on purpose. 5. Ideology×polar knowledge interaction terms also were tested, but found to have no significant ignoring the potential tanglement between ideology and polar knowledge acquisition, polar knowledge still increased concern in the conservative cohort effects. They did raise problems with multicollinearity, and for both of these reasons are left out of the Table 3 models. here's the survey the yale study used, "EARTHOT The center of the Earth is very hot [true/false]. 86% HUMANRADIO All radioactivity is man-made [true/false]. 84% LASERS Lasers work by focusing sound waves [true/false]. 68% ELECATOM Electrons are smaller than atoms [true/false]. 62% COPERNICUS1 Does the Earth go around the Sun, or does the Sun go around the Earth? 72% COPERNICUS2 How long does it take for the Earth to go around the Sun? [one day, one month, one year] 45% DADGENDER It is the father’s gene that decides whether the baby is a boy or a girl [true/false]. 69% ANTIBIOTICS Antibiotics kill viruses as well as bacteria [true/false]. 68%" what sort of competence or informedness is actually tested here? some very weak stuff | ||
|
AA.spoon
Belgium331 Posts
On March 16 2016 05:20 oneofthem wrote: COPERNICUS1 Does the Earth go around the Sun, or does the Sun go around the Earth? 72% what sort of competence or informedness is actually tested here? some very weak stuff The question is poorly formulated, as a physicist I wouldn't know how to answer it. In general relativity: 1. For an observer who is at rest on the surface of the earth, the Sun rotates around the Earth. 2. For an observer who is at rest on the surface of the sun, the Earth rotates around the Sun. Both answers are correct. (and it actually rotates around the center of mass...) | ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28747 Posts
| ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
if we are just talking about groupthink, of course it exists. but hte problem comes when you try to throw a wrench into 'scientific communication' by saying it is irrelevant. this is not true. | ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28747 Posts
| ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
| ||
|
WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On March 16 2016 02:51 Nyxisto wrote: I'm not sure it makes sense at all to frame this like a national issue. I mean we've literally never respected their borders to the point where we just decided that it would be fun to draw them in the sand ourselves and the Russian's and American's have been going at it on their soil for pretty much five decades. And now a million or two of those people hand us the paycheck and we're all up in arms and ask how they dare to cross our holy borders? While they're fighting secular dictators that have for some reason ended up running every single country in the region? It's almost comical really. The problem is not that people come to our countries, the problem is how we make society. Opening your arms, out of some desire to make it seem like you're good inside (while doing nothing to help the people that suffer in their daily lifes just next to you, and that oftentime are also sons of immigrants) is not really a solution to anything (especially if you close your eyes as soon as those people are "in"). Also, history is irrelevant to current politics. On March 16 2016 06:36 oneofthem wrote: level of 'competence' depends on the issue. the existence of group think and whatnot was never in dispute. but trying to stretch that into a statement about how science education is not important is just bad. The point is that politics is not about scientific truth, but also values, and that in what most scientist propose or defend from a political standpoint, there is an objective, testable part, and a part that rely on a set of values. Science and education is important, just not that much for anything related to political questions. | ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
It's also reasonable that the majority of people with vested interests in any industry harmed by emissions targets would get them correct. Whether those two factors together are enough to explain the trend, I don't know. The data really is quite clear. It's also, frankly, terrifying that 55% of people don't know how long it takes the earth to orbit the sun. I wonder if we can blame 'Murica or if that is standard for the Western world. | ||
|
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On March 16 2016 05:20 oneofthem wrote: What the actual fuck? How did 55% of people get this wrong?COPERNICUS2 How long does it take for the Earth to go around the Sun? [one day, one month, one year] 45% Btw balisaurias, the barycentre of Sun-Earth is pretty much inside the Sun, so it can be somewhat argued that the Earth rotates around the Sun in common non scientific parlance. | ||
|
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On March 16 2016 00:21 xM(Z wrote: you're stuck on the previous page - semantics over the definition of confirmation bias(which i said it's based mainly on faith/beliefs/(non-scientific)hypotheses. present another argument or let it go. This is our actual conversation:+ Show Spoiler + On March 15 2016 05:56 xM(Z wrote: confirmation bias is to identity-protective cognition what neanderthal is to sapiens. On March 15 2016 06:02 Dangermousecatdog wrote: No, its pretty much the same thing. Only difference is that one is individual, and the other is social. On March 15 2016 06:15 xM(Z wrote: one implies blind faith/mob mentality, the other accounts for reasoning/science. On March 15 2016 06:30 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Which one is which? They are both forms of unreasoning. | ||
| ||
